Age of Ultron Age of Ultron SPOILER thread, DO NOT enter if you don't want to be spoiled!!! - Part 4

[Marchesk]

I really don't see how it came about that you "have to kill off a hero to make the stakes real". There are plenty of great movies that suceeded without killing off a hero, even in the MCU.

Well, you need to at least convince the audience that there is a real possibility a hero could die. Especially as the threat level rises, and we're talking about a suite of movies with lots of dangers, not just one.

Otherwise, the heroes come off as kind of invincible, and the audience knows at some level they are never really in any danger. But killing QS did feel like a cheap way to do it, because he wasn't a character the fans had a chance to really care about.

 

[Web-Head]

Finally saw Age of Ultron last night and I loved it. There were a few things here and there that I didn't like, but overall I really enjoyed it. It's up there with Iron Man, TWS, and the first Avengers film.

 

[jaqua99]

I'm not sure. Killing the black guy is so cliche people are rioting in the streets. Something across the board would have killed a white guy... hey, Pietro!





I think you are. They value innocent lives, but just like Tony giving up being an arms dealer didn't make him trust Captain America, Tony wanting to fight Loki wouldn't either. Valuing civilian life doesn't create a team.

Coulson's death was different in part because they knew him personally. "One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic." You may be sad when you hear that 1,000 people died in an earthquake. If you family member dies, heck, if you dog dies, you are devastated.

But what made it most different was that they got to all see that they were all affected by the tragedy, that no one saw him as a statistic. This brought Cap and Tony together, and without that, there'd be no Avengers.



There absolutely are. There's no other way to accomplish those three goals in three seconds other than killing QS though.



Again, because it was personal. Because he died doing what they should have been doing. Because if they had come together earlier, he'd still be alive. Thus, they could feel directly responsible for Coulson's death.




Um... Guardians of the Galaxy started out with someone dying. Of Cancer. And then they 'killed' off Groot to show you its real. Also that one jerk in the Nova Corps, who got only slightly less development than Quicksilver in AoU. Also, drunken raccoon pity parties. Also The Other, though he was a bad guy, a bad guy killed him. Guardians of the Galaxy killed off the most named characters of any flick so far, and generally implied the new Groot isn't the same as the old one anyway.

But your point, yes, someone will need to die from now on everytime we're supposed to believe the world is about to fall apart. And that's the way it should be, imho. Someone will die in Civil War. Someone will die in IW 1. Everyone will probably die in IW 2. Probably not Dr. Strange, or Black Panther or Spider-Man or Captain Marvel or Inhumans. Probably not, anyway. Even Thor 3 is pretty safe, Ragnarok and all.

Generally implied the new groot isn't the old one? Where are you getting this from? It's groot.. HE grows back

 

[Hmarrs]

I'm not sure. Killing the black guy is so cliche people are rioting in the streets. Something across the board would have killed a white guy... hey, Pietro!

I see your point but what im saying is in Daredevil you got White guys getting Killed,Hispanic people getting killed, Japanize people getting killed,Russians,Chineze people so I really don't feel he was signaled out for being Black,
Or status...Homeless People,Lawers,Doctors,Policeman,Thugs,Women or Men,Editors etc.

I think the point there are trying to make is no one is out of Killpins I mean Kingpins hands...And to not kill him because he is Black would actually be obvious.However more supporting roles for more Black people the same can be said for the Hispanics as well although I do believe they are trying.can see your point there.

I just don't think he should have been killed off because of how Vital his character is to the Mythos of Daredevil.

I think you are. They value innocent lives, but just like Tony giving up being an arms dealer didn't make him trust Captain America, Tony wanting to fight Loki wouldn't either. Valuing civilian life doesn't create a team.
Coulson's death was different in part because they knew him personally. "One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic." You may be sad when you hear that 1,000 people died in an earthquake. If you family member dies, heck, if you dog dies, you are devastated.

Of course I see your point if your family member or yes even a Dog God forbid dies you are more affected.

But see this is where we disagree I don't think anything was enough to merit that type of affection.
It was more implied and felt forced also it was Loki who was creating that discourse between them.Again the state and threat of the World heck the state of the Universe could have done it.
It did for Gaurdians of the Galaxy.

But what made it most different was that they got to all see that they were all affected by the tragedy, that no one saw him as a statistic. This brought Cap and Tony together, and without that, there'd be no Avengers.

Hmmm...again I disagree.There are other ways.

There absolutely are. There's no other way to accomplish those three goals in three seconds other than killing QS though.

Again I have to agree to disagree.
There are other ways that's just one way.
The problem is they are locking everything to that being the only way and once you lock yourself into a system like that your stuck.

Again, because it was personal. Because he died doing what they should have been doing. Because if they had come together earlier, he'd still be alive. Thus, they could feel directly responsible for Coulson's death.

Enghh...Honestly its not there responsibility to have to come together they could have all set off in their own ways to settle things separately so
it have gone another way.

Which honestly would have been more believable since they had no experience working together to just come together like that but I understand it wouldn't seem like a team movie I guess but it just came off to hokey for me.

Um... Guardians of the Galaxy started out with someone dying.
Of Cancer. And then they 'killed' off Groot to show you its real. Also that one jerk in the Nova Corps, who got only slightly less development than Quicksilver in AoU. Also, drunken raccoon pity parties. Also The Other, though he was a bad guy, a bad guy killed him. Guardians of the Galaxy killed off the most named characters of any flick so far, and generally implied the new Groot isn't the same as the old one anyway.

Yes someone did die in the beginning but we were talking about death to emphasize the intensity of War or Danger does not fit into this convo.
Also it is the same Groot.Where do they say its not.he can regenerate himself.Which in it self is bad too because now I know he can never die.I dislike imoratality in Characters as much as I dislike wasteful death...that's why I don't bother with Wolverine in the comics.
As well as once a person dies for me in a comic its ruined for me one if they die and too if they come back.For instance I will never believe in the death of Nick Fury again ever.

Coulsens resurface resurrection or whatever you want to call it just insults my intelligence altogether I cant even watch Shield because of it.

Like Superman you have to have a sense of mortality and you have to have a delicate balance between life and death for a character to not overdo either one.However create that balance.
If you bring him back you have a to have an incredible loophole that to bring him back that to me was already established before hand while at the same time keeping a sense of vunerablity or maybe even consequence to keep me connected.However that's me.

But your point, yes, someone will need to die from now on everytime we're supposed to believe the world is about to fall apart. And that's the way it should be, imho. Someone will die in Civil War. Someone will die in IW 1. Everyone will probably die in IW 2. Probably not Dr. Strange, or Black Panther or Spider-Man or Captain Marvel or Inhumans. Probably not, anyway. Even Thor 3 is pretty safe, Ragnarok and all.

And that's just wrong and poor story telling in my book.

There painting themselves into a corner in my book everyone is trying to find a formula to Superhero films if they find just one small thing that workds the do it to Death until they do over and over again until people lose interest or vomit.
Sometimes the Death and an inner person can be more effective like a desintion of Tony Strak because of Alcholism or Guilt over Ultron etc.etc.

Or Cap being lost in this world and dead to his old world see Death too can be done in multiple ways...
That's why I Loved the WinterSolider So much there was a lot of depth and even death...

death of a friendship and old life and old time without anyone really dying physically to make that point the WinterSolidier lives..the Nick Fury death to me wasn't even necessary...Sorry guys if I'm too harsh but that's just me.

When Im harsh I may not give the studios or Writers much credit but we don't have to they need to give us More Credit I criticize because I give all of US EVEN MORE credit because we are intellectuals and we take this stuff seriously.

I know I'm a little crazy and obsessive but that's how I see it in my opinion you know.

 

[The_Human]

Favorite moment: When Hulk hops on the quinjet and you hear Ultron say something like "Are you kidding me?" and then goes flying out...LOL

He says "oh for God's sake".

 

[Jordanstine]

Doesn't one of the Infinity Stones have the power to resurrect dead people back to life? Anyway, nothing is certain since MCU will continue at least until 2020, and probably longer than that. Things could change in the future.

Yes.

IIRC in the books, Thanos not only defeats but even kills most of the Avengers (think he kills Daredevil with just a snap of his fingers). Later, his daughter Nebula betrays him and uses one of the stones to resurrect the dead heroes.

 

[Raiden]

Yes.

IIRC in the books, Thanos not only defeats but even kills most of the Avengers (think he kills Daredevil with just a snap of his fingers). Later, his daughter Nebula betrays him and uses one of the stones to resurrect the dead heroes.

I do fully expect Thanos to kill several Avengers, if not all of them. If he can't kill anybody even after gathering all the Infinity Stones, then he won't be much of a threat in the first place.

 

[Hmarrs]

Yes.

IIRC in the books, Thanos not only defeats but even kills most of the Avengers (think he kills Daredevil with just a snap of his fingers). Later, his daughter Nebula betrays him and uses one of the stones to resurrect the dead heroes.

Ergo:Why I say he IW 1 and 2 will be what DOFP was to X-Men.Including Any Retecon they want from anything previous.

I do fully expect Thanos to kill several Avengers, if not all of them. If he can't kill anybody even after gathering all the Infinity Stones, then he won't be much of a threat in the first place.

There are other ways however if that's how it was done in the comics then that's how it should be done in the film.

 

[Hmarrs]

Imagine if you will just imagine...
What happened to the Red Skull?
He kind of was obliterated by the Cube no?
Also what Happened to the Ronan he was obliterated by the Gem Right?
What if they weren't Obliterated but taken into the Cube and Gem...
What if they are in a sense of suspended animation...
What if they weren't Obliterated but Absorbed?
What if no explanation for Quicksilver is because he is inside of Vision Gem.
Not dead but in Stable condition only sustaining his life.
imagine them all coming back in IW's.
Someone said maybe Vision absorbed Ulron into the Gem that's where partially my idea came from but he wouldn't have to if Ultron found a way to send his consciousness to another machine or Cpu even.
I would love for Thanos to bring them back with Abomination for an all out Stand off before facing him.
Heck throw Malekith in there too.When its over bring back Peggy Carter too.Heck let her and Steve have their dance.The Cube is suppsed to give whatever you wish for any of these Gems opens the door to do anything they want to do really(hey open the door to the Dc Universe and lets kick some butt) but seriously it would be unprecedented and justifiable.
Sort of like a Secret War in Infinity Wars.
What do you think?It would never be topped.
Heck even if you decided to end it all right here and put all these actors to rest and start over with a new cast.I would be ok they did a Job well done because after all what could you do after this?
Start over I say Reboot it all.I know Im crazyI said that before.

 

[Tymminator]

Yes.

IIRC in the books, Thanos not only defeats but even kills most of the Avengers (think he kills Daredevil with just a snap of his fingers). Later, his daughter Nebula betrays him and uses one of the stones to resurrect the dead heroes.

Utilizing the Time Gem on the gauntlet specifically, she restored everything to the way it was before (by I forget how many hours). Her goal was to spite Thanos to his face and erase all of his "work" he did to the Universe and that happened to include restoring life in the universe, all of the heroes and cosmic entities he had previously whiped out.

 

[MIKE10]

I suddenly realised that Ultron having sort of Tony Stark's personality or buzz or sense of humor totally doesn't make sense....Tony only writes the Ultron programm...there is no reason why he should sound like him or say similar lines as him... I somehow don't get it...

 

[PunyGod]

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[drod1985]

Yup. Not only did Stark program Ultron, but Ultron also had access to Jarvis and all of Stark's data, including security footage and communications. Ex. the "Peace in our time" quote. So I'm sure when Ultron downloaded all of that information bits of Stark's personality and vernacular seeped through.

 

[Just_Human]

I thought it was interesting to see that Ultron's last available body in the movie was actually his classic comic look

(the conversation scene with Vision)

I'm sure it was done on purpose

 

[PunyGod]

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[Just_Human]

Yup crappy Ultron (from the party scene) was the real Ultron imo

 

[SuperSanchez]

Yup crappy Ultron (from the party scene) was the real Ultron imo

Yeh that scene sent chills down my spine, when he looked at his arm and there were all dangling wires, "I had strings but now I'm free"

 

[sueb1863]

How'd he get to Loki tho?

I think what they meant was that they wished Ultron had killed Couslon in AoU instead of Loki killing Coulson in the first Avengers.

 

[SuperSanchez]

I think what they meant was that they wished Ultron had killed Couslon in AoU instead of Loki killing Coulson in the first Avengers.

hmmm, I disagree, Loki killing Coulson was a major plot point, it was the event that seperated the Avengers, and when they were seperated they still had conflict and didnt have the brothery and sisterly relationships like in the 2nd movie, and because of this they had to come together to gain that level of freindship.

 

[Vartha]

I think what they meant was that they wished Ultron had killed Couslon in AoU instead of Loki killing Coulson in the first Avengers.

...yeah that makes more sense lol but then what would have been Avengers' motivation to START the team work?

Still wonder what They'll do when they find out Phil's alive.

 

[PunyGod]

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[SuperSanchez]

If all the avengers die in Infinity wars part 1, and they come back to life in part 2 I want coulson to lead them holding the gun and saying "I still don't know what this actually does"

 

[PunyGod]

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[drod1985]

By the way ...
I WANT TO SEE THE SUIT.

Spoiler

"Wha, you didn't see that coming?" t:

 

[sdc10]

I don't think they ever will. Its pretty clear that the movies and TV shows are kept segregated from each other. The shows react to what happens in the movies but not vice versa.

Ya, thats what I've been thinking as well. Mostly because not everyone that watches the movies watches AoS. If Coulson ever showed back up in the movies they would have to provide an explanation for not only the characters in the movie but for the audience as well.