Age of Ultron Age of Ultron SPOILER thread, DO NOT enter if you don't want to be spoiled!!! - Part 4

[Tony Stark]

I apologize I never meant it that way.

All good! Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Spiderine]

I don't have a problem with QS death. Its ridiculous to have two of them running around on the big screen. I got to think that played in part with the decision to kill him.

 

[The_Human]

One of my favourite shots in the film. The way the camera swings around on it and their positioning... awesome.

Yes that really was so awesome. So picturesque.

As well as the full avengers slow motion shot - amazing (including Cap doing the mid air butterfly twist lol) what a gymnast!

 

[The_Human]

I don't know if I understood you, but the Ultron Cap fought had no vibranium on him. The new body appeared later.

Yes my mistake, you are correct and I am in plain error.

I have edited that post now.

Then I will reinstate my original thought and verdict that, that was a very good scene indeed and I enjoyed that particular fight sequence. Ultron escaped by endangering the lives of the passenger by blasting the train driver dead and flying off, however he flew away and kidnapped BW but I don't think he was able to lift the Vision enclosed case as that would of been too heavy to fly away with hence he didnt try retrieve it from the quinjet. Makes perfect sense.

 

[itstrue718]

I don't think QS will stay dead. Somehow Dr. Strange, Wanda, Shield, and/or Dr Cho will bring him back. Also, remember, QS became an Inhuman in the comics. If it worked for Coulson, it will work for him. And just like the comics QS became more powerful, even able to travel through time ala the Flash. I'll be waiting for this. #BringBackQuicksilver

 

[CaptainWagner]

The problem I have with Quicksilver's death is that it failed to achieve the effect Whedon killed him for. They never mention it, and it has no impact on the team. Therefore, the only impact it has on the audience is making them mad. Having the Avengers fail to save a civilian would have sent the point home much better, without wasting a popular new character.

 

[Hmarrs]

The problem I have with Quicksilver's death is that it failed to achieve the effect Whedon killed him for. They never mention it, and it has no impact on the team. Therefore, the only impact it has on the audience is making them mad. Having the Avengers fail to save a civilian would have sent the point home much better, without wasting a popular new character.

THANK YOU!!!...That's all I'm saying

 

[Hmarrs]

Edit

 

[MadVillainy]

The problem I have with Quicksilver's death is that it failed to achieve the effect Whedon killed him for. They never mention it, and it has no impact on the team. Therefore, the only impact it has on the audience is making them mad. Having the Avengers fail to save a civilian would have sent the point home much better, without wasting a popular new character.

I said the same thing after the movie. I said I wish tat they would've had more of a team reaction. I know we got Scarlett Witch's scenes and we did get Hawkeye having his middle name being Pietro.
But I felt there wasn't a big reaction from the team

 

[Hmarrs]

I said the same thing after the movie. I said I wish tat they would've had more of a team reaction. I know we got Scarlett Witch's scenes and we did get Hawkeye having his middle name being Pietro.
But I felt there wasn't a big reaction from the team

So then why should it be for US!!!
Or draw the response it was expected too from us if it didn't for the team.

 

[Lorus]

I liked Quicksilver. I thought they did a good job positioning him as a likeable character, so it is sad that we won't get to see any more of him. I think that means it worked exactly as intended, from Whedon's perspective, he wants us audience members to feel a sense of loss. Partly so we can empathise with Wanda, and partly to make the battle feel consequential. It worked for me, honestly. It would be a shame to bring him back and retroactively lessen the impact of his role in this film.

 

[Hmarrs]

Edit

 

[Lorus]

Ok but couldn't that sense of loss be wasted potential?

It's a loss. The fact that I see the character's potential and recognise that it's a shame we won't see his possible future means that it was an effective cost of the battle for me. It works for storytelling effect.

 

[Imperial]

More annoyance then loss, especially after hearing Joss' explanation of having to kill off a character just because.

 

[drod1985]

It's a loss. The fact that I see the character's potential and recognise that it's a shame we won't see his possible future means that it was an effective cost of the battle for me. It works for storytelling effect.

Bingo.

Having the Avengers fail to save a civilian would have sent the point home much better, without wasting a popular new character.

At the same time, I fully agree with this. I thought Cap was going to fail to save that car falling off the bridge and we would've seen him dealing with that guilt. That would've been super powerful.

 

[Tony Stark]

One thing Joss needed to do better with Quicksilver is show how much Hawkeye hates QS. The idea is that he can't stand this guy, but he ends up saving his life, which makes the scene of him lying down next to his body, so much more powerful. I mean there's quips and stuff like the "keep up old man" followed by "nobody would notice, I could just take you out right here" But I thought it was a little too subtle. I wish they had more confrontation ala Scott and Logan in the first X-men.

 

[Hmarrs]

Edit

 

[Lorus]

More annoyance then loss, especially after hearing Joss' explanation of having to kill off a character just because.

Ah, but presumably you're annoyed because you feel that you have lost something, with Quicksilver dead.

 

[Hmarrs]

It's a loss. The fact that I see the character's potential and recognise that it's a shame we won't see his possible future means that it was an effective cost of the battle for me. It works for storytelling effect.

I liked Quicksilver. I thought they did a good job positioning him as a likeable character, so it is sad that we won't get to see any more of him. I think that means it worked exactly as intended, from Whedon's perspective, he wants us audience members to feel a sense of loss. Partly so we can empathise with Wanda, and partly to make the battle feel consequential. It worked for me, honestly. It would be a shame to bring him back and retroactively lessen the impact of his role in this film.

Ok but couldn't that sense of loss be wasted potential?
By the way ...
I WANT TO SEE THE SUIT.
Also for the record.
I thought he was awesomly done.It was him and his cocky self for real.
He could have added so much drama to future films with his arrogant self.
Just plain being difficult.
Having him get in between his sister and anyone else constantly...
Being difficult opinionated and he can give any member of the team a run for their money ("LITERALLY")..Anyone who feels he is not a force to be reckoned with is mistaken his Snuffed Hawkeye and Cap.

Would have loved for him being the mischiefs one on the team or better yet the comic relief since the team and movie need one with his arrogance or cockiness or see him make the play with the ladies in competition with Tony for the girls on the team and in the movie since Ironman left because that's usually Tony take on it(Playboy narcissistic).

OR WAIT!!! maybe that's why they killed him because he would have taken RDJR Thunder....t:...So RDJR said "No one can be as funny as Narcissistic Arrogant or be better Playboy then me...QUICKSILVER HAS TO DIE ...And I have to beat the Hulk in the Hulkbuster or Im not signing back on."

All jokes aside...
I felt his characterization was better then the Witch.
Who I really didn't see much but some Mindplay and a Death scream at the end.
But that one line..

..."Wha' you didn't see that coming"..

Was just awesome by itself.

 

[Lorus]

Ok but couldn't that sense of loss be wasted potential?
By the way ...
I WANT TO SEE THE SUIT.
Also for the record.
I thought he was awesomly done.It was him and his cocky self for real.
He could have added so much drama to future films with his arrogant self.
Just plain being difficult.
Having him get in between his sister and anyone else constantly...
Being difficult opinionated and he can give any member of the team a run for their money ("LITERALLY")..Anyone who feels he is not a force to be reckoned with is mistaken his Snuffed Hawkeye and Cap.

Would have loved for him being the mischiefs one on the team or better yet the comic relief since the team and movie need one with his arrogance or cockiness or see him make the play with the ladies in competition with Tony for the girls on the team and in the movie since Ironman left because that's usually Tony take on it(Playboy narcissistic).

OR WAIT!!! maybe that's why they killed him because he would have taken RDJR Thunder....t:...So RDJR said "No one can be as funny as Narcissistic Arrogant or be better Playboy then me...QUICKSILVER HAS TO DIE ...And I have to beat the Hulk in the Hulkbuster or Im not signing back on."

All jokes aside...
I felt his characterization was better then the Witch.
Who I really didn't see much but some Mindplay and a Death scream at the end.
But that one line..

..."Wha' you didn't see that coming"..

Was just awesome by itself.

Hey, I feel your pain friend. Quicksilver is an awesome character and I thought Whedon did a great job illustrating that. I just think that the best response is to appreciate the Quicksilver we got and enjoy the story rather than concern myself over stories that haven't been conceived yet.

 

[DrCosmic]

But see I disagree because there is so much story there in the beginning between Vision Scarlet witch where Pietro gets in the middle of it.
Plus the Netflix Daredevil is Dark and there's just to much death where it loses its effect but just to use it for effect is wrong too. Alot of people still disagree with Ulrich's death. The relevance of death in any Genre is only contrasted by the importance of life in the said Genre.

Pietro being a C-blocker isn't really "so much story" and honestly... I could do without that particular plot point, or stretching out a romance that is essentially a subplot in other people's movies.

I don't know about this death losing it's effect. Ulrich's death rubbed me the wrong way because it was the only black guy.

Since the superhero genre is all about saving lives, the importance of life is at an all time high. That's why all these movies have to have someone die.

I agree and disagree.
There are other ways do you think it would have effected the story any different had Coulsen been in intensive care or showed up at the end?..IF we would have thought he was dead through out the fight?
Ok lets say that's too Hookey..
Don't you think watching millions die innocently would have been enough to cause them to decide to make a decision to band together.
The Death factor. I just feel like its forced.

No. No amount of people dying will cause me to trust a selfish arse to magically not be a selfish arse. No amount of people dying will cause me to think an out of touch barely-super yes-man is suddenly in touch and independent enough to be anything other than in the way.

The problem I have with Quicksilver's death is that it failed to achieve the effect Whedon killed him for. They never mention it, and it has no impact on the team. Therefore, the only impact it has on the audience is making them mad. Having the Avengers fail to save a civilian would have sent the point home much better, without wasting a popular new character.

Actually... most of the audience doesn't know/care enough to be mad. Remember, most of the audience's only exposure to QS is his 10 minutes of screen time and the additional ten minutes from Days of Future past.

The effect QS's death had was pretty clear. "You didn't see that comink?" It was to wrap up Hawkeye's story and act as the climax for Scarlet Witch's arc that didn't really start until she read Vision's mind. It also added weight to the conflict, and made it feel more like a life and death struggle and less like a cartoon.

Imagining that Whedon was trying to do with QS what he did with Coulson is fanciful. A civilian dying doesn't drive home this point for either storyline, nor does it do what Coulson's death did. In fact, it just asks more questions: are we saying that these robots are shooting randomly and NO civilians have been killed so that when this one is killed, the whole team is devastated. We know people died in the Attack on New York, we saw the 9-11 like memory gardens. Hulk definitely hit some cops with a truck earlier in AoU. But we're supposed to believe one civilian casualty devastates the whole team?

The treat of death can be just as effective if done right.
Guardians of the Galaxy did it.Even with the proposed death of Groot he still comes back at the end so it can be done.

Part of doing the threat of death *right* involves keeping the threat believable or low key. When you keep ratcheting up the threat and there's never any catastrophic result, you're not doing it right anymore. Another way to do it right is to fake-kill someone. But the problem comes if you keep doing that one trick over and over, then it loses it's ability to communicate that it's not a cartoon.

That may one of the problems is that it feels rushed in both situations we are just barley introduced to the characters without given the time to grow an affection to them to where at least to me the death even matters thus appearing useless to me.Lets say Peitro had passed in the 3rd or even 4rth film IW can you imagine the impact?

We were given enough to have a tiny bit of affection. Pietro's "little picture" story, and the whole line of "didn't see that comink" give his character some weight, enough that we know it matters to Clint and Wanda, and that's all that matters, so that's all that was needed.

Could Pietro's death have had a greater effect if he'd been around more? Absolutely! But then this movie would have been that much more cartoony. And there are dozens of other characters that can die in IW that can have that impact later. Saving Pietro doesn't really gain much of anything.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Actually... most of the audience doesn't know/care enough to be mad. Remember, most of the audience's only exposure to QS is his 10 minutes of screen time and the additional ten minutes from Days of Future past.

I'm just going off of my own acquaintances. And among them, annoyance was the primary emotion associated with Pietro's death

Imagining that Whedon was trying to do with QS what he did with Coulson is fanciful. A civilian dying doesn't drive home this point for either storyline, nor does it do what Coulson's death did. In fact, it just asks more questions: are we saying that these robots are shooting randomly and NO civilians have been killed so that when this one is killed, the whole team is devastated. We know people died in the Attack on New York, we saw the 9-11 like memory gardens. Hulk definitely hit some cops with a truck earlier in AoU. But we're supposed to believe one civilian casualty devastates the whole team?

As opposed to Pietro's death? Because that didn't "devastate the whole team" either.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

On one hand.. i hate the fact QS Died.. on the other... Wanda is more of an Avenger than he ever was... he sorta always came and went... and was never a part of the team very long... I don't think he's essential to the Avengers.... I do think he however, is essential to the Marvel Universe so i'm torn..

his death will work if we see that it's still effecting Wanda

 

[Hmarrs]

Hey, I feel your pain friend. Quicksilver is an awesome character and I thought Whedon did a great job illustrating that. I just think that the best response is to appreciate the Quicksilver we got and enjoy the story rather than concern myself over stories that haven't been conceived yet.

I can except that.

Pietro being a C-blocker isn't really "so much story" and honestly... I could do without that particular plot point, or stretching out a romance that is essentially a subplot in other people's movies.

I don't know about this death losing it's effect. Ulrich's death rubbed me the wrong way because it was the only black guy..

Good Point but maybe that was why..so it felt like the killing was across the board...no exceptions.

Since the superhero genre is all about saving lives, the importance of life is at an all time high. That's why all these movies have to have someone die.

Im not trying to be funny but doesn't this statement and the next below contradict each other?

No. No amount of people dying will cause me to trust a selfish arse to magically not be a selfish arse. No amount of people dying will cause me to think an out of touch barely-super yes-man is suddenly in touch and independent enough to be anything other than in the way.

Then why should Coulsens Death be any different and besides in repect to these characters they have already had there own movies and have shown regard to Civilain life as In Cap in WW and Thor taking the hit from the Destroyer for the innocent lives Iron man not wanting to be An Arms distributor anymore so they have proven themselves already before the fight began.Unless I'm reading this wrong and I think I might be.

The effect QS's death had was pretty clear. "You didn't see that comink?" It was to wrap up Hawkeye's story and act as the climax for Scarlet Witch's arc that didn't really start until she read Vision's mind. It also added weight to the conflict, and made it feel more like a life and death struggle and less like a cartoon.

I believe there are other ways.

Imagining that Whedon was trying to do with QS what he did with Coulson is fanciful. A civilian dying doesn't drive home this point for either storyline, nor does it do what Coulson's death did. In fact, it just asks more questions: are we saying that these robots are shooting randomly and NO civilians have been killed so that when this one is killed, the whole team is devastated. We know people died in the Attack on New York, we saw the 9-11 like memory gardens. Hulk definitely hit some cops with a truck earlier in AoU. But we're supposed to believe one civilian casualty devastates the whole team?.

Why not?
If you feel responsible..Then YES.
Why so for Coulsen then?Espeically if that's your line of work over an innocent mother just driving her kid home he was in battle he was an Agent it happens.Its to be expected.

Part of doing the threat of death *right* involves keeping the threat believable or low key. When you keep ratcheting up the threat and there's never any catastrophic result, you're not doing it right anymore. Another way to do it right is to fake-kill someone. But the problem comes if you keep doing that one trick over and over, then it loses it's ability to communicate that it's not a cartoon.
We were given enough to have a tiny bit of affection. Pietro's "little picture" story, and the whole line of "didn't see that comink" give his character some weight, enough that we know it matters to Clint and Wanda, and that's all that matters, so that's all that was needed.

Could Pietro's death have had a greater effect if he'd been around more? Absolutely! But then this movie would have been that much more cartoony. And there are dozens of other characters that can die in IW that can have that impact later. Saving Pietro doesn't really gain much of anything.

That's the problem.Is somone going to have to die each movie to make a point.Is that the only way to make the point?>>Believe it or Not Gaurdians of the Galaxy didn't and that's about as hokey and cartoony as it gets..N it never came off as Cartoony to me..and how long before its .."OVERKILL"..literally you know...and we don't have that many especially when you find one that works on screen with so many who don't.Now if someone doesn't die it wont feel right either...Because you raised the stakes so high...So now you have to do it.Just like im glad Loki wasn't in this movie or you lock yourself into doing it again if you don't it will feel wrong.Now if someone doesn't die it feels weak.Thats why I hate re-occurring Villians because then if you don't somthings missing.Or how many times can Spiderman save Mary Jane.
I do see your point on not gaining much though.

 

[drod1985]

his death will work if we see that it's still effecting Wanda

This is what I'm most interested in. The twins together are a neat dynamic, but Wanda really is the more interesting character. Seeing his death affect her in future films could be neat. Heck, ATJ may even cameo in flashbacks or weird imaginary sequences she has.