Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. - S02E08 "The things we bury"

[cherokeesam]

Pretty sure Ward is lying to Skye.
Here's one constant that's been proven to be outright wrong after last week's episode: Skye's mother was not there at the Hunan bloodbath. She couldn't have been, what with being vivisected in Austria and all.

So, if there's any truth at all to Ward's version that the "mother" was there, and got killed by HYDRA agents, it *wasn't* the woman played by Dichen Whatshername. Either Ward is lying outright (probable), or else there was another woman who went to Hunan with The Doctor to find Baby Skye. If so, either she pretended to be the mother (but why? HYDRA, under Whitehall, knew full well that her real mom was already dead), or else witnesses just jumped to that conclusion.

 

[marcvader]

Cant remember, was Whitehalls imprisonment in Austria and after being freed was he moved before being presented the villagers?

Also, wasn't Wards information second hand so he'd be telling what he thought to be true?

 

[cherokeesam]

All of the stories are secondhand, presumably. Lumley was the closest to being an actual eyewitness, but even he admits that his group came in on the tail end of the massacre, after the fighting had pretty much ended.

But, here's a thought:
what if Ward WAS an eyewitness? Participant, even?
HYDRA agents sent to Hunan to locate an 084 (they may or may not have known she was the child of the Inhuman --- or whatever --- that Whitehall dissected; it really doesn't matter), presumably as part of the Zola Algorithm: potential superhuman. Either kill the child, or raise it to be HYDRA, like Wanda & Pietro and the other "Miracles."

If Ward was one of those HYDRA agents dispatched to Hunan, then his obsession with Skye becomes more than just a case of him thinking with his dick. After he found out that Skye was the actual 084 that HYDRA, SHIELD, and The Doctor had all battled to the death over, he realizes that fate has literally brought them back together...

 

[Nathan]

I think Ward would have been way too young and wouldn't have been a Hydra agent yet. So I seriously doubt he was one of the Agents dispatched to Hunan.

 

[Venom'sDad]

Ward is not old enough to have been present when Skye was an infant.

 

[cph9fa]

Pretty sure Ward is lying to Skye.
Here's one constant that's been proven to be outright wrong after last week's episode: Skye's mother was not there at the Hunan bloodbath. She couldn't have been, what with being vivisected in Austria and all.

That's not quite true. Skye's mother was in the village at some point. Exactly when, compared to the bloodbath is perhaps questionable.

When Old-Whitehall is freed, and he exchanges the little "Hail Hydra" routine with the "SHIELD" agent, Whitehall asks why he's finally just now being released. The reason is that they have finally found "the woman". When the prisoners are then presented to Whitehall, he asks who they are. He is told "We grabbed all the elders from the village, and couldn't believe what we found." Lo and behold, there is the woman. So obviously, she was in the village, and then taken from the village by HYDRA agents.

I'm starting to think there were at least two events in that town. One, when HYDRA (under the guise of SHIELD, presumably) attacked the villagers and rounded up all the elders (including Skye's Mom), and then a second one when Skye's Dad arrived, and found his family gone, and his town full of "SHIELD" agents. Though I suppose its possible that these two events occurred at the same time.

Cant remember, was Whitehalls imprisonment in Austria and after being freed was he moved before being presented the villagers?

Also, wasn't Wards information second hand so he'd be telling what he thought to be true?

Whitehall's imprisonment was in "The Rat", whose location is undisclosed. Then there's a new establishing shot with the caption "Austria, 1989". The agent wheels in Whitehall (in a wheelchair) as the lights flicker on, and he tells Whitehall "It's under SHIELD protection. Like the rest of us." Then he is presented with the prisoners. So it's pretty clearly a different location.

Ward's information is secondhand, but presumably he got it from Raina. And his story is different than hers.

 

[cph9fa]

I think Ward would have been way too young and wouldn't have been a Hydra agent yet. So I seriously doubt he was one of the Agents dispatched to Hunan.

Yeah... Ward would've been like... 6? So I'm going to have to agree.

 

[cherokeesam]

That's not quite true. Skye's mother was in the village at some point. Exactly when, compared to the bloodbath is perhaps questionable.

When Old-Whitehall is freed, and he exchanges the little "Hail Hydra" routine with the "SHIELD" agent, Whitehall asks why he's finally just now being released. The reason is that they have finally found "the woman". When the prisoners are then presented to Whitehall, he asks who they are. He is told "We grabbed all the elders from the village, and couldn't believe what we found." Lo and behold, there is the woman. So obviously, she was in the village, and then taken from the village by HYDRA agents.

I'm starting to think there were at least two events in that town. One, when HYDRA (under the guise of SHIELD, presumably) attacked the villagers and rounded up all the elders (including Skye's Mom), and then a second one when Skye's Dad arrived, and found his family gone, and his town full of "SHIELD" agents. Though I suppose its possible that these two events occurred at the same time.


Whitehall's imprisonment was in "The Rat", whose location is undisclosed. Then there's a new establishing shot with the caption "Austria, 1989". The agent wheels in Whitehall (in a wheelchair) as the lights flicker on, and he tells Whitehall "It's under SHIELD protection. Like the rest of us." Then he is presented with the prisoners. So it's pretty clearly a different location.

Ward's information is secondhand, but presumably he got it from Raina. And his story is different than hers.

Had to be two separate incidents.

So, Moms must have had Skye just a few months before the attack. HYDRA storms the place looking for an 084--- and now we know, it might not have been Skye they were after at all, but Mama Bear. This is where we see HYDRA deliver her to Whitehall in Austria. Doesn't seem to have been a lot of resistance, though, so this probably isn't the incident Raina, Ward, & Lumley described.

That would come *after* The Doctor finds his wife already dead in Austria. Returns to Hunan. HYDRA is there, still....why? Are they looking for Baby Skye now? Do they know Mama Bear had a child? Or is it simply a matter of them having taken over the village prior, and gone ahead and established a semi-permanent base there?

 

[cph9fa]

Had to be two separate incidents.

So, Moms must have had Skye just a few months before the attack. HYDRA storms the place looking for an 084--- and now we know, it might not have been Skye they were after at all, but Mama Bear. This is where we see HYDRA deliver her to Whitehall in Austria. Doesn't seem to have been a lot of resistance, though, so this probably isn't the incident Raina, Ward, & Lumley described.

That would come *after* The Doctor finds his wife already dead in Austria. Returns to Hunan. HYDRA is there, still....why? Are they looking for Baby Skye now? Do they know Mama Bear had a child? Or is it simply a matter of them having taken over the village prior, and gone ahead and established a semi-permanent base there?

Maybe. But why do you think that Doc's tearing up the town didn't happen until after he finds his dead wife?

The vivisection process is implied to have taken quite some time (possibly months). Which would leave a HYDRA team searching for baby Skye (who is being hidden by the villagers) for a rather extended period of time. I'm having a hard time picturing it at the moment. I'll need some time to think about it...

I have yet to see a theory that makes complete sense of all the evidence (especially Raina's statement that both parents were monsters, and were looking for their child).

 

[cherokeesam]

Maybe. But why do you think that Doc's tearing up the town didn't happen until after he finds his dead wife?

The vivisection process is implied to have taken quite some time (possibly months). Which would leave a HYDRA team searching for baby Skye (who is being hidden by the villagers) for a rather extended period of time. I'm having a hard time picturing it at the moment. I'll need some time to think about it...

I have yet to see a theory that makes complete sense of all the evidence (especially Raina's statement that both parents were monsters, and were looking for their child).

Because The Doc doesn't have a reason to rage until his wife gets brutally murdered.

And maybe it took awhile for HYDRA to find out she had a kid. There was nothing in last week's episode that hinted at her being pregnant or having just delivered a child. Odds are that The Doc, her family, and the village would deliberately shield that info from HYDRA. Coulda been that Whitehall only found out about the baby after ripping apart Mama's insides --- some evidence of childbirth or something. He then sends a second team back to the village to look for the child, so that Whitehall can get some more anti-aging juice from the baby, too.

 

[Venom'sDad]

I want to know 1st...what led both sides to the Hunan Prov. in the first place. What happen, what event took place that led them there?

2nd...How does Raina know about these things....was she a child in that village at the said time, or knew someone who was, or was it a second-hand story she was informed of while doing research on the Centipede Project...she seem to have first-hand account that both Skye's parents were monsters.

Finally...why didn't Skye's mom defend herself/village...did she not have any special ability other than a lifespan? She appear to just allowed herself to be taken, by people she knew had bad & dangerous intentions, given the concern look on her face, when with the group of villagers.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

Maybe then she didn't want to be exposed as a monster that Skye's father turned out to be. I may have to re-watch the episode again but did it mention anything of where Skye's parents came from? We know that the mom had met Whitehall back when he had the ...what you call it, the Oblist-something and he had her touch it and she ended up doing so with her face cause of the guard had her pinned down to it. Then he had her be locked up in a cage...

Question is, after all that time while Whitehall spent forty four years in a cell, do you think the mom somehow escaped that cage? Only to be recaptured after 44 years? I might have missed some parts but I think the reason the mom didn't defend herself/village is because even if she came from somewhere else, maybe she was scared - scared that if fallen to the wrong hands, she would be used to an extent. Whatever or whoever she is, she was afraid that the world wouldn't understand her nature. At this point, she did indeed fall into the wrong hands and was experimented on for the wrong meaning. Damn you Whitehall.

If anyone reads this and it doesn't add up, sorry for wasting your time... I am not that good of a theorist.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Or maybe she doesn't have any other abilities. There's no reason to think she does. Being perpetually young is a pretty good ability.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

okay so I rewatched the episode again...In one of the scenes with Agent Carter, it seems that the woman she found was the same woman that was locked inside a cage... and Carter must have freed her. so that answers that question.

 

[David_99]

I want to know 1st...what led both sides to the Hunan Prov. in the first place. What happen, what event took place that led them there?

Whitehall made it sound like the Hunan people were the ones who found it in the ground.

2nd...How does Raina know about these things....was she a child in that village at the said time, or knew someone who was, or was it a second-hand story she was informed of while doing research on the Centipede Project...she seem to have first-hand account that both Skye's parents were monsters.

She might have been from the same village. Seeing a woman not age over time might have started stories of "witchcraft" or whatever. Evil Witch = Monster. At least in the eyes of a child.

Finally...why didn't Skye's mom defend herself/village...did she not have any special ability other than a lifespan? She appear to just allowed herself to be taken, by people she knew had bad & dangerous intentions, given the concern look on her face, when with the group of villagers.

I assume she was a normal woman until she touched the Obelisk. Maybe that brief contact gave her part of the power. She was worthy so it extended her life. The power of extended youth, however, means squat against the Nazis.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Eh, I suspect she always had the ability to not age. Maybe the obelisk triggered it within her, but it seemed to be biological not technological (hence the ability to remove it from her and give it to Whitehall).

 

[cph9fa]

2nd...How does Raina know about these things....was she a child in that village at the said time, or knew someone who was, or was it a second-hand story she was informed of while doing research on the Centipede Project...she seem to have first-hand account that both Skye's parents were monsters.

Raina says it's just a story she'd heard (though somehow, she knows that Skye's DNA seems to match the person in that story... which goes weirdly unexplained). Later, Skye's Dad reminds Raina that he found her as a beggar, clinging to her grandmother's "fairy tales" (about transforming into something).

I don't know that Raina herself was from the village, but it wouldn't surprise me if her grandmother at least was there during WWII.

 

[Delwin]

What about a misdirections? Why we are assuming that woman killed by Whitehall is the same person found by the Doc? Do we have a good look at the body found by the Doc?

 

[Comics]

Raina says it's just a story she'd heard (though somehow, she knows that Skye's DNA seems to match the person in that story... which goes weirdly unexplained)..

I don't see the problem. Her Grandmother told her stories but she's been with the Doc since she was a child so he not only put her through all her obvious schooling but also filled her in on Skye and her DNA.

 

[Silvermoon]

What about a misdirections? Why we are assuming that woman killed by Whitehall is the same person found by the Doc? Do we have a good look at the body found by the Doc?

It's the same woman

 

[Dark Raven]

Maybe Dichen Lachman's character when Reinhardt found her the 2nd time was actually her daughter, and the one he saw the first time round was Skye's grandmother. They all look exactly the same, and Skye is going to look just like her too when she grows up.

 

[ajmccarrell]

I wonder if this episode's events might shed some light on why Hydra hid that Tesseract weapon in Peru in the 2nd episode 0-8-4? It never really explained why and it was a big mystery that was never really paid off.

 

[marcvader]

Can't remember if Raina has actually touched the diviner? It'd be messed up if the Doctor has been lying to her all this time just to have her help and she ends up dying when she finally does hold up expecting to be transformed.

 

[Nathan]

She held the Diviner before.

 

[cph9fa]

Can't remember if Raina has actually touched the diviner? It'd be messed up if the Doctor has been lying to her all this time just to have her help and she ends up dying when she finally does hold up expecting to be transformed.

Yes, he forced Raina to pick it up after she took it from Creel and returned to him.

I can't remember if the Doctor has ever touched it, though. For some reason, I get the impression that he can't.