Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. - S02E10 "What they become""

Discussion in 'Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.' started by Intouch, Nov 22, 2014.

  1. The Shrike Registered

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    I always thought there were similarities in Drew's, and Jones personalities. Both are caustic, and world weary, yet they're real mean little ass kickers when the chips are down.
     
  2. David_99 Cap'nCanuck

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    Didn't Bendis originally intend for Alias to star Jessica Drew, but for whatever reason, she wasn't available or Marvel didn't want her used in a MAX book or something? So he made up Jessica Jones (keeping Drew's first name even).
     
  3. Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

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    I don't think it's that Marvel didn't want her used in a MAX book. It's that they didn't want her forever written off as a superhero and now relegated to being a private detective who is stuck with this non-super status. They wanted to be able to use Jessica Drew as Spider-Woman again and regain the popularity she once had in her heyday. I'm glad they did, because Spider-Woman was my favourite Marvel heroine.
     
  4. Mike Murdock Registered

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    Here is a quote from Bendis: "Originally, Alias was going to star Jessica Drew, but it became something else entirely. Which is good, because had we used Jessica, it would have been off continuity and bad storytelling."

    I think it was changed just to create greater flexibility and not tie down Jessica Drew. But the similarities of the characters are obvious (and part of the reason why I made my comments).
     
  5. Whiskey Tango Registered

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    Two days this song has been stuck in my head. It's pretty cool though.
     
  6. Mike Murdock Registered

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    Say what you will about motion comics, but they all seem to have cool theme songs.
     
  7. ryanrsheets Registered

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    I'm completely unconvinced Trip is dead.

    1. BJ Britt was spotted on the set of Age of Ultron. I suppose he just felt like visiting with a bunch of strangers in UK?
    2. Clark Gregg holding up a note card as "Director of S.H.I.E.L.D." saying "#Triplives"? They used "#Coulsonlives" extensively ramping up to the AoS pilot. Not to mention the whole idea of a farewell video for a cast member being ridiculous if the cast member is truly gone-- kind of like rubbing salt in the wound if we're supposed to really be sad about it.
    3. Trip's grandfather was a Howling Commando and Agent Carter seems very poised to be the explanation of the Inhumans. The timing is such that any other story for Agent Carter would be a blatant waste of time for the viewer. All it takes is Trip's grandfather somehow becoming a potential himself and suddenly Trip is an Inhuman too.
    4. Did they explain what Cal injected Trip with after he was shot?
    5. Did any of the other victims of the Obelisk disintegrate to a fine dust?

    My guess as to character/traits: like the forgettable Magneto accomplice Ash but as an Inhuman and hero and with the ability to rise from the ash.
     
    #657 ryanrsheets, Dec 19, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2014
  8. Mike Murdock Registered

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    1. There's no indication that BJ Britt was seen on the set of Age of Ultron. The consensus had been for months that it was a mistake and probably Anthony Mackie.
    2. Or he wants to bring back the character by starting a campaign similar to the one that brought him back (or it was all in good fun because it's just a TV show)
    3. I've seen no indication that Agent Carter will have anything to do with Inhumans. All indications are that it'll have its own story separate from the Agents of SHIELD story. They said they aren't even doing Hydra.
    4. Yeah, in that episode. Technically, Calvin didn't inject Trip with anything, he cut an artery and had Coulson inject basically a clotting agent.
    5. Only the ones caused by that Hydra throwing disc thing. Otherwise, no. But no one else had dealt with an Earthquake.

    On the other hand, in response to all that, he did disintegrate into a fine dust as you yourself point out.
     
  9. Marc Spector Registered

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    I could definitely see Trip making a reappearance down the line:

    He could return as the Inhuman known as Hollow:http://marvel.wikia.com/Hollow_%28Inhuman%29_%28Earth-616%29
    "Hollow can allow himself to become intangible".

    Maybe there's a chance #Triplives? We think he's dead over the break, but he spends time learning to disappear/reappear without the aid of stealth technology, and can pass through walls (making miniature stealth somewhat redundant for him). Simmons will be upset that he vanished. There's nothing left but dust down there, and they can't bury him. Then, when she's in danger, he pops out of thin air & saves her (or something). They start seeing each other & get all "touchy feely" over him not being dead. Fitz is slightly annoyed that Trip doesn't stay intangible. He might complain that Skye, Mack, and Trip "all get cool powers". What does he become? :cmad:
     
  10. Endeavor Que bolá con el timbeque?

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    Trip's body did not react to the mist. He is not an Inhuman.
    He turned to stone/ash after a shard got embedded in his chest. The same way regular humans had reacted to touching the obelisk in previous episodes.
     
  11. Marc Spector Registered

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    [FONT=&quot]Down the rabbit hole: What if a small percentage of the entire population is part alien, and we just don't know it yet... because the Kree interfered with Earth's natural evolution? Perhaps there's useful "junk DNA" & genetic memory in Trip's family line that can be examined to discover links to the Kree's past experiments on ancient humanity; this could allow Simmons to create a classification system. She'd be the one naming and distinguishing between true Inhumans, and what Trip and Raina are... Which will become important. Inhumans are an offshoot "branch" of humanity, whereas Nuhumans are a type of Inhuman living among us that have some links to the past experiments... Enough to survive.

    [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Terrigenesis might have a less immediate, less visible effect on these types of gifted people in comparison to Inhumans & Deviants (Raina has Deviated because she's a "freak", or "monster", who possesses Deviant DNA, not Inhuman DNA in my theory..). The Kree had a few setbacks during their experiments, resulting in the creation of other "monstrous" branches of humanity in the past such as the Deviants (Homo Deviare)[FONT=&quot]. S[/FONT]ome junk DNA was left in Raina, and she thought she had enough. Sometimes branches of humanity need to be removed from the tree, so the Atlanteans (Homo Mermanus) were cut off & sunk. If you poison the roots, you poison the whole tree. And if you nurture the roots of the evolutionary tree, then you nurture the whole tree...[/FONT]
     
  12. Endeavor Que bolá con el timbeque?

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    So in your theory Triton, Gorgon and even Karnak are Deviants. If so, why are they allowed to stay in Attilan, much less be part of the Royal Family?
     
    #662 Endeavor, Dec 19, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2014
  13. Marc Spector Registered

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    It gets complicated. To answer that completely would take some time, and I'm not sure how they'll arrange it.

    You have to start with Attilan's history in the Atlantic ocean and then work forwards. My theory is they were basically part of the same Empire as the Atlanteans in the past. Some Atlanteans showed up on the shores of Greece after Atlantis sunk, and mingled with the Olympians. For the most part though, Attilan lost contact with their former allies in Atlantis after the cataclysms. There were only few Deviants they could trust, because Deviants lived in Lemuria, and they didn't really side with Lemuria in the end either. Their goal was to break away from the rest of ancient humanity, to fly away from all of us & reach the moon. Where they planned to plant roots. In my theory, the Deviants/Lemurians managed to survive in some forms to this day. They're the band of "freaks" that ran around with Raina. Reader doesn't want them, they're a separate faction of outcasts who have no place in the kingdom. Deviants are often referred to as "monsters". I really think Raina is a Deviant, while Skye is an Inhuman.

    My idea is that the back story of the ancient stuff (Kree experimentation etc) is all tied together to make it simpler, and since Attilan was once in the Atlantic Ocean. It would be somewhere else now, while Atlantis is at the bottom of the ocean. They went through a period during the floods where they relocated the Royal family (and eventually the city) to the tops of the highest mountains in the Himalayas/Andes, & went to Olympus (to visit the Olympians) etc.. They set up permanent shop on the mountaintops to avoid the flooding at the end of the last ice age, which hit Atlantis hard while locked in a war with the Lemurians... There were some from both sides of the ancient war who went with the Inhumans. They became part of their culture/kingdom to escape the Lemurian/Atlantean war, whereas Raina's freaks aren't part of the kingdom because long ago they chose to stay and serve Lemuria..

    Basically, I think we're gonna get an even bigger mythology than we're expecting with the Inhuman stuff. Different factions of Inhumans living on Earth, and those who know where Attilan is. We'd learn a lot about the ancient past, and what our ancestors called magic. Visit the Tibetans in Dr. Strange, find out what they know...
    I think we'll be catching up to the Royal Family, following clues along the way to find out where they are now. Whitehall hinted: "all of our myths and legends are true. It's just the details are incorrect". I guess you could say I share Red Skull's vision about the roots of Yggdrasil. Fire makes some plants stronger, but not all. It forces them to adapt. Fire helps pine cones reproduce. Experiments take time, and results may vary. Strucker's experiments on these "nuhumans" may get results.

    Introducing people with meaningful "junk DNA" (the parts of Donnie's DNA Simmons didn't look at) might help make some miracles happen. This would mean that Simmons overlooked some things in Donnie's junk DNA because she's always been taught it's junk. However, it could be a mixture of nature and nurture that allowed Donnie (a person possibly possessing trace amounts of Inhuman DNA) to "adapt".
     
    #663 Marc Spector, Dec 19, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2014
  14. cph9fa Registered

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    Just wanted to clarify: While there are certainly monstrous Inhuman forms, such as Raina's, these are not what is meant by the term "Deviant". Deviants are the failed outcome of the Celestial's earlier experiments (the successes are called Eternals).

    Granted, the MCU is not the comics, and they may streamline that some (for example, maybe Olympians and Atlanteans are offshoots of Inhumans as you suggest), but I'm not sure they plan to repurpose the name Deviant to refer to Inhuman who don't still look human. Thanos is a Deviant (his family members are Eternals, though). We also already know there are Celestials. And as Endeavour points out, there is nothing inherently wrong or evil about Inhumans whose appearance is... inhuman (such as Triton et al). It is merely an occasional result of the Terrigenesis process.
     
  15. Marc Spector Registered

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    I would say it's more like they sided with one or another at certain times, than being directly related to one another.

    It wouldn't be that they're directly connected. The Celestials would have a hand in creating them. It would be more like they're all somewhat distantly related offshoots of humanity, since the Deviants can be monstrous in appearance as well. Celestials left some failed Deviant experiments on Terra. The word freak was used a lot too. To me that could mean Raina's band of freaks is more prone to the monstrous transformations, and are possibly treated like outcasts by Reader. He recognized that there was a new one. Their DNA may just happen to be close enough to Inhumans or humans to go through Terrigenesis or be triggered by accidents or "experiments".

    It'd be mainly culture that would be focused on, but there'd be some distant genetic links between some groups. They just happened to be around at the same time because the Atlanteans are an earlier branch of humanity than us, and Kree & Celestials were both running experiments on Earth back then.. Ancient humans (us) were caught in the middle when we came about.. The Inhumans began to branch off from the ancient version of us around the time of the Olympian War against the Titans in our legends and stories... The Titans ruled Saturn's moon Titan for a time, and things kinda go messy with the Olympians and Eternals... So anyway, the Inhumans branched off us, after we had already branched "away from" Atlanteans. It's complicated to explain the way I see it working. Atlanteans were the first round.

    Garrett might have viewed it all happening at once, which could be skewing my perception on where the tree/root patterns are going. He might have perceived all the offshoot branches crawling out of the oceans & primordial swamps together, all of us "connected" in some way, but the Inhumans wouldn't branch directly off the Atlanteans or the Deviants... The idea would be that we're all part of the same evolutionary tree in distant ways. Possibly accounting for why some Atlanteans are blue and why certain species can interbreed successfully. We would share "last common ancestors" and "universal ancestors". I think Garret saw the very roots of Yggdrasil beneath the surface of reality, and the Inhumans are destined to fly to the moon, but Raina possibly not.

    TO ADD: Evolution isn't really a straight-forward process. There can be convergent/radiant evolution going on, hybrid theories of evolution can come into play...The Kree would have basically left us some gifts too by speeding up our natural evolution a little bit in the past. We're not the branch of humanity that is supposed to inherit the kingdom. We're not highly evolved enough yet, but they are. There are no real "missing links" anymore, but there are periods where evolution moves forwards in leaps and bounds. Hominid lines can branch out in different directions at the same time, into separate lines of early man from the same common ancestors... High Evolutionary might have more to say about that in the future.
     
    #665 Marc Spector, Dec 19, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2014
  16. Endeavor Que bolá con el timbeque?

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    So basically, your assumption is that they'll mix homo mermanus, homo sapiens, deviants, eternals and inhumans as all having the same beginning...
    I'm not sure such a mix is simplifying anything or even beneficial.
    For one, not all Deviants are monstrous, just like not all Eternals are human-looking (Thanos). Their differences with Eternals do include appearance-driven prejudice, but are more complex than that. By contrast, with the Inhumans you see the reverse situation, where when an individual's terrigenesis produces monstrous changes that person is regarded as special and even beautiful. If you ignore this contrast you're losing a very valuable social commentary that makes the Inhumans stand out. Then there's the fact that by muddling so many races together you're diminishing their importance and effectively limiting diversity in the Marvel Universe (one reason why I hate the Inhumans = Mutants idea, but that's a different discussion for later). How do you know Marvel isn't planning to introduce Namor and the Atlanteans in phase 4? What about Hercules and the Olympians? If they're just another variety of Inhuman, what do they add to the MCU? Nothing new.
    I find it much simpler to show that Celestials, to whom we've already been introduced in the MCU, decided to play gods(again, also shown) with primitive humans. Then thousands of years later the Kree decided to mimic that action therefore resulting in the Inhumans. The only modification to comics cannon that needs to be done fit the current running story in the MCU, is that there were many inhuman cities (as opposed to the 2 or 3 that the comics show, i believe) and only Attilan successfully isolated itself completely from the outside world, while the rest gradually integrated with humanity.
    That's how you get inhumans and inhuman halfbreed running around amongst us, but still have room for Attilan to be discovered in the 2018 movie. Simple.
     
  17. CapLover Registered

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    I realize there are folks who aren't looking forward to the long break, but I very much PREFER when networks break their shows' seasons into two mini-seasons.

    Last year, once the holidays rolled around (and even before) there would be occasional repeats of MAOS and then almost a continual run of repeats until CA: TWS opened in theaters.

    I really LIKE it when they show HALF the episodes all in a row, then take a pause and finish the season strong with the second HALF all in a row.

    It's a lot easier than having to check in every week or... worse... tolerating repeats while waiting for more.
     
  18. gildedmuse Snark Is A Superpower

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    Pretty sure that Raina's group called themselves "freaks" the same way that a lot of people started to call themselves "nerd/geek" or someone who is gay might accept the term "***" and identify with it. They were street kids that the rest of the world look down on, so instead of cow-toeing to everyone else's opinion they choose to embrace their outcast status. She isn't saying "I randomly came upon a large group of homeless children, all of whom happened to also be descended from the same evolutionary line", it's just her way of saying, "I fell in with a bad crowd, and (being kids) we were silly enough to think acting the way we did somehow made us different and special." I mean, otherwise, where are all these other people?

    Think of how Raina constantly tries convincing Skye this is their destiny. Family (blood and created) is a running theme in the show, particularly this season, and I think in some twisted way Raina sees Skye as a sister-like figure. Now, on the one hand, Raina is a character with shifting loyalties who places her self-interest ahead of all other, but she is also, for lack of a better term, a true believer. She could very easily resent Skye or foster her obvious suspicious/disbelief, but instead she continually reinforces the connection between the two of them. If there were others like her, especially if they were people that she grew up with and lived with and was likely close to in her childhood, why not invite them to the party? She is persuasive and cunning enough that she could have set it up, but in the end it's just her and Skye.

    Raina so believed that people like her deserved this "gift", I honestly think she would have reached out to any she knew, believing it to be their birthright. But in the end, I think it's more likely that the kids she fell in with called themselves freaks only because that is what they believed society saw them as, and choose to embrace the identity and that Raina brought it up mostly because she looks back on it as ironic since she now believes herself to be something grander than human.

    Of course, it's not going to seem quite as amusing when she sees what she's transformed into.
     
  19. AVEITWITHJAMON Darksider

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    Finally caught up with the show, great stuff and it continues to get better every week. I think getting more characters from the comics involved like Hyde and Quake will be a good thing for the show. Though it was a slight disappointment not seeing Hyde turn.

    And it's very sad to see Tripp go, especially the way he went out, after such heroic acts he didn't deserve to die. Will be interesting to see what Raina has become, and seeing a Terrigen crystal and Terrigen mists before the Inhumans hit the big screen was unexpected and awesome!
     
  20. lync Registered

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    Coulson may be immortal while the alien elements are in his blood but not an Inhuman. He doesn't have the needed DNA. :yay:
     
  21. The Shrike Registered

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    Exactly, if he were Inhuman, Mac-Sentinal would have let him pass unmolested like Skye and Raina.
     
  22. Mike Murdock Registered

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    BTW, I don't think Inhumans have Kree DNA, I think they were just genetically altered by the Kree. I could be wrong, though.
     
  23. Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

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    Somehow, I do not think Mac-Sentinel was molesting Coulson. :dry:
     
  24. Mike5575 I'm the Captain now!

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    I hope those Kree zombie/demon powers are something that Mac can turn on and off now. That would be cool. I just hope he isn't the MCU's version of the actual Kree Sentry as opposed to the giant robots in the comics.
     
  25. Endeavor Que bolá con el timbeque?

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    I'm not sure if it's been retconned, but they're not supposed to have Kree DNA.
    At least not anymore than the Eternals have Celestials' DNA.

    They were just augmented by the Kree.
     

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