Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of SHIELD - Episode 2.20 - "Scars"

[Lilbaz]

She said to Skye, that in their hunt for Skye, she and Cal leave a trail of carnage and that she realized that she and Cal were turning into monster and she couldn't recognized him and herself so she stop searching.

Now she is protecting her daughter and her people. How far will she go?

 

[Pokkle]

Very far based on the end of the episode.

 

[Lilbaz]

Very far based on the end of the episode.

Agreed. Looking forward to next week.

 

[Chemistro]

Raina also may have an opportunity to tell Skye the truth. She may not believe her, but enough doubt may be planted to warrant further investigation.

Yes, that's one of the other options (others would be Cal turning into Hyde attacking SHIELD, and/or he or Jiaying revealing something accidentally, or Jiaying just planning something devastating using diviner metal, etc.).

 

[regnak]

Why should they have to run and hide because the schoolyard bully with his list turns up ?

Turning up with the always implied threat of violence that they use to force people to go on the Index kicked this off .

Because if SHIELD was as bad as you seem to think then not fleeing invites being bombed into oblivion. As it is she started a war but must hope that Coulson doesn't go all out to win by hitting them with enough bombs/missiles/drones to wipe them out.

Hell if she was dealing with Amanda Waller from Arrow the Inhumans would all die next ep as she had that place blown off the map.


To make things simple she wants to start a war claiming SHIELD is evil but is relying on them showing restraint in order to live. Stupid.

 

[Caper the Fox]

Hated to see Edward James Olmos go he was a good actor on Miami Vice... if stressful stuff like this continues on the show It would cause me so much mental stress

 

[HFK]

Quote:
Originally Posted by HFK
Didn't see that one coming.

I did tbh


lol thinking Ward changed

I in no way thought Ward had changed and have been waiting for him to show up again. What I didn't see was 33 tricking Bobbi and then Ward icing her.

 

[Vartha]

The Coulson as Captain Marvel theories ended when Marvel announced Carol Danvers as the titular character.

They said is ONE of them. The only one that will be in that film is Carol.

 

[<(o_o)>]

She said to Skye, that in their hunt for Skye, she and Cal leave a trail of carnage and that she realized that she and Cal were turning into monster and she couldn't recognized him and herself so she stop searching.

So Skye's mother has other hidden abilities besides eternal youth or she just took the Hyde formula also?

 

[Seb]

So Skye's mother has other hidden abilities besides eternal youth or she just took the Hyde formula also?

Let's be honest, you don't need powers to be a monster. She could have been plenty monstrous with just a healing factor and some guns/swords/whatever.

 

[Seb]

At no time has Hydra ever been a part of SHIELD. They may have infiltrated the organization but they were never part of SHIELD. Hydra, as an organization, is much older than SHIELD. SHIELD may have ended up with Skye, but that doesn't mean they helped hydra capture Jiaying. Cal killed everyone in the village because he blamed them all for Jiaying and Skye. He didn't need to hunt them down. It was later that he and Jiaying began ruthlessly trying to find Skye.

How does that even make sense? Hydra was deeply integrated with SHIELD, most of the task forces were probably a mix of Hydra and loyal agents, loyal agents would have been sent on dodgy missions with details left out, Hydra agents would have gone off book on sanctioned missions, it was all a giant clusterf***. Also, at the time, Hydra weren't a separate thing yet, so every Hydra agent looked like a SHIELD agent. How would Jiaying or Cal have been able to tell the difference? And given what May, a real good SHIELD agent, had to do in Bahrain, imagine what even the dodgier loyal agents might have done? Or those with Black Widow-like skill sets and mission parameters?

SHIELD are the CIA of an Enhanced world, and one assumes they have done the same sort of 'ends justify the means' messed up stuff. Hells, Gonzales would have wiped Afterlife off the map (or tried, at least, I don't know what kind of Inhuman defences they have) 'just in case', and he's hardly Hydra.

 

[WhiteWalker]

How does that even make sense? Hydra was deeply integrated with SHIELD, most of the task forces were probably a mix of Hydra and loyal agents, loyal agents would have been sent on dodgy missions with details left out, Hydra agents would have gone off book on sanctioned missions, it was all a giant clusterf***. Also, at the time, Hydra weren't a separate thing yet, so every Hydra agent looked like a SHIELD agent. How would Jiaying or Cal have been able to tell the difference? And given what May, a real good SHIELD agent, had to do in Bahrain, imagine what even the dodgier loyal agents might have done? Or those with Black Widow-like skill sets and mission parameters?

SHIELD are the CIA of an Enhanced world, and one assumes they have done the same sort of 'ends justify the means' messed up stuff. Hells, Gonzales would have wiped Afterlife off the map (or tried, at least, I don't know what kind of Inhuman defences they have) 'just in case', and he's hardly Hydra.[/QUOTE

What do you mean they weren't a separate thing yet. The attack happened 25 years ago. They may or may not have yet been infiltrated at that time. You're creating your own set of facts to suit your theories. I saw nothing in the series that indicated SHIELD was responsible for what happened to Jiaying and her village.

 

[Heretic]

I think it's safe to say that Hydra has been in SHIELD since almost Day 1.

 

[WhiteWalker]

I think it's safe to say that Hydra has been in SHIELD since almost Day 1.

Possibly, but it's pretty naive to think that they don't also exist outside of SHIELD. To assume that SHIELD is responsible for the injustices of HYDRA does not make sense. I doubt very much that Whitehall attacked the village and said "Hello, we're SHIELD". Hell no, he would have said "Heil HYDRA".

 

[DN91]

Possibly, but it's pretty naive to think that they don't also exist outside of SHIELD. To assume that SHIELD is responsible for the injustices of HYDRA does not make sense. I doubt very much that Whitehall attacked the village and said "Hello, we're SHIELD". Hell no, he would have said "Heil HYDRA".

Whitehall doesn't seem like the kind of guy who'd hide his Hydra heritage.

 

[Heretic]

Yeah, Hydra was run independently, while also manipulating SHIELDs actions from within. Remember, Fury SUPPORTED the "kill list" drone program that Cap toppled SHIELD over. The fact that Fury MIGHT have had a slightly different list of targets doesn't make him innocent.

 

[Chemistro]

I think the question that might shed at least some light on what happened (assuming no continuity errors) is: Why was Skye classified an 0-84?

We know that:
1. Skye had no powers as a baby.
2. Skye was in fact indistinguishable from a normal human baby, barring a DNA test.
3. Even a standard SHIELD DNA test would not reveal anything out of the ordinary, if you didn't know what to look for, as shown by the fact that Simmons and other scientists did not notice anything unusual in her DNA before terrigenesis (which is why Fitz swapped the test results after terrigenesis).
4. SHIELD had no informantion or Jiaying, or on inhumans.

Given all of that, there simply was no reason whatsoever for SHIELD to classify Skye an 0-84. Yet, she was so classified. Why? The agent who took her said it was some kind of power, but he didn't witness anything. But there was no such power, and zero reason to even suspect that she might have some power. So, why would anyone at SHIELD decide to target Skye, believe she might have a power, or even get Skye on their radar?

If only SHIELD was involved in that classification, it just makes no sense.
However, Whitehall kidnapped Jiaying. It's plausible that he figured out that she had a daughter (by torturing other people, or in some other way), and wanted to get her for experimentation - or some other Hydra leader wanted that, but Whitehall is more likely.
So, he may have contacted Hydra operatives high within SHIELD to get Skye classified as an 0-84, so that SHIELD would take care of kidnapping Skye. Then, he could experiment on her, with the help of some of the moles - Hydra went as far as brainwashing Donnie Gill when he was being held in a SHIELD facility, and even make some files inaccessible even to Fury, so the move seems within the level of influence within SHIELD they displayed later. It's plausible that they also had enough influence in 1988/89 (I'm not sure when exactly she was classified an 0-84).

ETA: Correction: the agent didn't say it was some kind of power. He said if she had some power, they never witnessed it. But the rest of the points above hold.

 

[WhiteWalker]

I think the question that might shed at least some light on what happened (assuming no continuity errors) is: Why was Skye classified an 0-84?

We know that:
1. Skye had no powers as a baby.
2. Skye was in fact indistinguishable from a normal human baby, barring a DNA test.
3. Even a standard SHIELD DNA test would not reveal anything out of the ordinary, if you didn't know what to look for, as shown by the fact that Simmons and other scientists did not notice anything unusual in her DNA before terrigenesis (which is why Fitz swapped the test results after terrigenesis).
4. SHIELD had no informantion or Jiaying, or on inhumans.

Given all of that, there simply was no reason whatsoever for SHIELD to classify Skye an 0-84. Yet, she was so classified. Why? The agent who took her said it was some kind of power, but he didn't witness anything. But there was no such power, and zero reason to even suspect that she might have some power. So, why would anyone at SHIELD decide to target Skye, believe she might have a power, or even get Skye on their radar?

If only SHIELD was involved in that classification, it just makes no sense.
However, Whitehall kidnapped Jiaying. It's plausible that he figured out that she had a daughter (by torturing other people, or in some other way), and wanted to get her for experimentation - or some other Hydra leader wanted that, but Whitehall is more likely.
So, he may have contacted Hydra operatives high within SHIELD to get Skye classified as an 0-84, so that SHIELD would take care of kidnapping Skye. Then, he could experiment on her, with the help of some of the moles - Hydra went as far as brainwashing Donnie Gill when he was being held in a SHIELD facility, and even make some files inaccessible even to Fury, so the move seems within the level of influence within SHIELD they displayed later. It's plausible that they also had enough influence in 1988/89 (I'm not sure when exactly she was classified an 0-84).

Skye was classified 0-8-4? When? I missed that. Could you tell me what episode dealt with that? I'd like to review it.

 

[WhiteWalker]

Never mind, I found it. S01-E12 SEEDS.

 

[Uskok]

So, because she had a weapon handy, in case she decided it was necessary to use, she is the villain?

For the record, Gonzalez also had a weapon handy, in case he decided it was necessary to use.

The difference is that her stance was "leave us alone and we will be as invisible as we have been to the human population for the last thousand years" and his stance was "submit your people to the type of testing and cataloging that has led to prior genocides by the very organization that has done nothing but attempt to kill you."

Yeah, S.H.I.E.L.D. was organized to exterminate the Inhumans.

Yes, it was SHIELD's stance to do testing and cataloging, not just EJO's.

SHIELDs plan for peace was to subjugate an entire race of people. Again...one of the problems with this season is that SHIELD is almost impossible to root for. It is sheer luck that they keep running into people that know about SHIELD's long history of imprisoning and testing on people (or rightly suspect that this is their agenda), and therefore are willing to take action first. If we are supposed to assume that they have never done this to innocent, unsuspecting people, then I don't accept that.

You have confused S.H.I.E.L.D. with HYDRA.

I think the question that might shed at least some light on what happened (assuming no continuity errors) is: Why was Skye classified an 0-84?

We know that:
1. Skye had no powers as a baby.
2. Skye was in fact indistinguishable from a normal human baby, barring a DNA test.
3. Even a standard SHIELD DNA test would not reveal anything out of the ordinary, if you didn't know what to look for, as shown by the fact that Simmons and other scientists did not notice anything unusual in her DNA before terrigenesis (which is why Fitz swapped the test results after terrigenesis).
4. SHIELD had no informantion or Jiaying, or on inhumans.

Given all of that, there simply was no reason whatsoever for SHIELD to classify Skye an 0-84. Yet, she was so classified. Why? The agent who took her said it was some kind of power, but he didn't witness anything. But there was no such power, and zero reason to even suspect that she might have some power. So, why would anyone at SHIELD decide to target Skye, believe she might have a power, or even get Skye on their radar?

If only SHIELD was involved in that classification, it just makes no sense.
However, Whitehall kidnapped Jiaying. It's plausible that he figured out that she had a daughter (by torturing other people, or in some other way), and wanted to get her for experimentation - or some other Hydra leader wanted that, but Whitehall is more likely.
So, he may have contacted Hydra operatives high within SHIELD to get Skye classified as an 0-84, so that SHIELD would take care of kidnapping Skye. Then, he could experiment on her, with the help of some of the moles - Hydra went as far as brainwashing Donnie Gill when he was being held in a SHIELD facility, and even make some files inaccessible even to Fury, so the move seems within the level of influence within SHIELD they displayed later. It's plausible that they also had enough influence in 1988/89 (I'm not sure when exactly she was classified an 0-84).

The HYDRA operatives within S.H.I.E.L.D. were sent to kidnap Skye. They managed to kidnap the baby but most of them were slaughtered by Cal. The last surviving HYDRA/S.H.I.E.L.D. agent called the S.H.I.E.L.D. reinforcements, claiming that he has found and 0-8-4. By the time the S.H.I.E.L.D. team arrived, the HYDRA/S.H.I.E.L.D. agent was dead. The S.H.I.E.L.D. team took the baby back to the USA. Shortly after, the HYDRA operatives within S.H.I.E.L.D. started eliminating members of that team, so that HYDRA could take Skye and perform experiments on her undisturbed. The two surviving members of the S.H.I.E.L.D. team took Skye to the Saint Agnes Orphanage and made an arrangement with the orphanage to keep the baby safe by transferring her to different foster homes after certain periods of time. Therefore, S.H.I.E.L.D. saved Skye from HYDRA.

 

[Seb]

The HYDRA operatives within S.H.I.E.L.D. were sent to kidnap Skye. They managed to kidnap the baby but most of them were slaughtered by Cal. The last surviving HYDRA/S.H.I.E.L.D. agent called the S.H.I.E.L.D. reinforcements, claiming that he has found and 0-8-4. By the time the S.H.I.E.L.D. team arrived, the HYDRA/S.H.I.E.L.D. agent was dead. The S.H.I.E.L.D. team took the baby back to the USA. Shortly after, the HYDRA operatives within S.H.I.E.L.D. started eliminating members of that team, so that HYDRA could take Skye and perform experiments on her undisturbed. The two surviving members of the S.H.I.E.L.D. team took Skye to the Saint Agnes Orphanage and made an arrangement with the orphanage to keep the baby safe by transferring her to different foster homes after certain periods of time. Therefore, S.H.I.E.L.D. saved Skye from HYDRA.

SHIELD may have kept Skye safe from Hydra, but the intention was to keep Skye safe from the monsters that killed the Hydra (pretending to be SHIELD) agents.

Possibly, but it's pretty naive to think that they don't also exist outside of SHIELD. To assume that SHIELD is responsible for the injustices of HYDRA does not make sense. I doubt very much that Whitehall attacked the village and said "Hello, we're SHIELD". Hell no, he would have said "Heil HYDRA".

We as the viewer shouldn't think that SHIELD is responsible for Hydra actions, but in universe it would be very hard to tell the difference.

As for Whitehall and other non-embedded Hydra agents, I don't think that they would have ever called themselves Hydra except within ranks. There's no way that SHIELD wouldn't have heard about them if they'd been going about saying 'Hail, Hydra' in front of people. They might have pretended to be another organisation apart from SHIELD, but generally as a group, using tarnishing SHIELD's name while remaining hidden is pretty much a win win.

What do you mean they weren't a separate thing yet. The attack happened 25 years ago. They may or may not have yet been infiltrated at that time. You're creating your own set of facts to suit your theories. I saw nothing in the series that indicated SHIELD was responsible for what happened to Jiaying and her village.

I think it's a safe assumption that Arnim Zola didn't get onto the big computer brain until after he and others had infiltrated SHIELD, yes? According to Cap 2, he died and was computerised in 1972, so Hydra must have been a part of SHIELD for at least that long, maybe much longer, but either way, Skye was taken a while after that, so I think my set of facts is based fairly on the information we have.

 

[Chemistro]

The HYDRA operatives within S.H.I.E.L.D. were sent to kidnap Skye. They managed to kidnap the baby but most of them were slaughtered by Cal. The last surviving HYDRA/S.H.I.E.L.D. agent called the S.H.I.E.L.D. reinforcements, claiming that he has found and 0-8-4. By the time the S.H.I.E.L.D. team arrived, the HYDRA/S.H.I.E.L.D. agent was dead. The S.H.I.E.L.D. team took the baby back to the USA. Shortly after, the HYDRA operatives within S.H.I.E.L.D. started eliminating members of that team, so that HYDRA could take Skye and perform experiments on her undisturbed. The two surviving members of the S.H.I.E.L.D. team took Skye to the Saint Agnes Orphanage and made an arrangement with the orphanage to keep the baby safe by transferring her to different foster homes after certain periods of time. Therefore, S.H.I.E.L.D. saved Skye from HYDRA.

Nice theory, but the senior agent who called in an 0-84 was killed by a bullet. Cal wouldn't kill him with a bullet. Hydra might if he wasn't one of them, but in that case, Skye was apparently actually classified an 0-84 (so that SHIELD agents who weren't HYDRA agents would also go after her).

An alternative would be that Cal didn't do all of the killings on his own, and Jiaying did some too, with a gun. That would be compatible with the rest of your theory.

 

[ajmccarrell]

They said is ONE of them. The only one that will be in that film is Carol.

There is actually far more backing up the idea of Coulson turning into Captain Marvel than there is that Ward turns into Taskmaster, but people are still throwing that one around. Mar-Vell's human name was Phillip Lawson, not far off from Phillip Coulson. He has Kree DNA and the Kree has occasionally taken over his body. Clark Gregg is also on record as saying that he would like to be Captain Marvel.

 

[cph9fa]

Nice theory, but the senior agent who called in an 0-84 was killed by a bullet. Cal wouldn't kill him with a bullet. Hydra might if he wasn't one of them, but in that case, Skye was apparently actually classified an 0-84 (so that SHIELD agents who weren't HYDRA agents would also go after her).

An alternative would be that Cal didn't do all of the killings on his own, and Jiaying did some too, with a gun. That would be compatible with the rest of your theory.

Actually, now I'm getting confused. Didn't Cal say he didn't begin his... experimentation... until after Skye and Jiaying had been taken from him? If so, I see no reason to think he wouldn't have used a gun. Granted, this also makes the whole talk of "monsters" at Hunan to be a bit of hyperbole. Do I smell a retcon? Hopefully we get answers when we see what happens with Hyde next week.

At any rate, my version of events is similar to Usok's:
- A HYDRA leader in SHIELD (Pierce?) orders a team to search for Jiaying (the exact composition of this team, in terms of HYDRA vs. SHIELD is somewhat irrelevant, as they're just following orders, protecting the world from enhanced).
- The team discovers the baby instead, tries to take her as well.
- A fight with Cal & Jiangying ensues.
- One detachment of HYDRA agents manage to capture Jianying, and takes her to Whitehall's base. Pierce releases Whitehall to continue his experimentation there.
- The remaining HYDRA/SHIELD agents are slaughtered, but one manages to hide under a bridge with the baby before dying. How much of this slaughter is internal SHIELD/HYDRA fighting vs. Cal (or other Inhumans???) fighting them is unknown.
- The SHIELD rookies running back-end move in and see the destruction. They have no idea of HYDRA or of Cal and Jiangying. They find the baby in the dead operatives arms, assume she's the 0-8-4, and take her for her own safety.
- What isn't clear to me is the intentions of the dead senior operative: was he HYDRA, kidnapping Skye, or a SHIELD loyalist, trying to protect her? I suspect the former.
- Do we know if it was HYDRA or Cal who starts tracking down and killing the rookie SHIELD agents?

 

[cph9fa]

There is actually far more backing up the idea of Coulson turning into Captain Marvel than there is that Ward turns into Taskmaster, but people are still throwing that one around. Mar-Vell's human name was Phillip Lawson, not far off from Phillip Coulson. He has Kree DNA and the Kree has occasionally taken over his body. Clark Gregg is also on record as saying that he would like to be Captain Marvel.

Point of correction: Mar-Vell's human alias was Dr. Walter Lawson.

They said is ONE of them. The only one that will be in that film is Carol.

While Carol is certainly the main character of the film, that doesn't preclude the presence in the film of other characters who have used that name, especially Mar-Vell.

FWIW, I find the Coulson=Mar-Vell theory to be extremely unlikely. Aside from the names not really being that similar, Coulson does not have Kree DNA, he had a Kree serum that is no longer in his system (and Clark's desire to play certain characters isn't terribly relevant). Being taken over by Kree impulses is a far cry from being taken over by a Kree consciousness. At the most, Coulson would be more like a Rick Jones analog, but even that seems unlikely.