Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of SHIELD - Episode 2.20 - "Scars"

[C. Lee]

Talking peace to an organization that has just turned up on their front lawn armed to the teeth ,expecting to start the anal probes ?

Yes. That's what talking peace means. They are the INHUMANS, we don't know the extent of heir powers yet, we know they have at least one that can teleport multiple people at a time out of there. They didn't even try to do things non violently.

SOP is if they say no to the Index they get put down as has been stated in the show .

We have heard it was the way of the old SHIELD...we didn't get a chance to see what the new SHIELD would do because their main negotiator was murdered.

Blessed are the vivisectionists and peacemakers of SHIELD

You seem to be taking this personally....has SHIELD been tracking you?

I she had told them to just go screw themselves I'm guessing Hot Seat Phil,El Jefe and the 4 Stooges would have just packed up and gone home ?

We don't know....because before anyone could discuss it the SHIELD representative was murdered.

Once again Daisy was abducted by SHIELD and hidden from them .Because SHIELD said so .

We were told this when Hydra was secretly in control of most things...so we don't really know the truth as to what happened. As in most thing that happen in this show....until you actually see them show what happened, you have no idea of the truth. For example...the "Cavalry" story.

 

[SomeOldGuy]

Hot Seat Phil sold his principles out so SHIELD can all sit round and sing Kumbaya together and he got to keep his job.

You go to war with the SHIELD you have, not the SHIELD you want. But in any event, acquiescing to the nuShielders resulted in the death of that faction's leader and the start of a war between SHIELD and the Inhumans, so something tells me that "sellout" Phil might get a bit more of a hearing next time around. t:

 

[CaptainWagner]

I was really hoping Gonvalez would turn out to be an Inhuman. That would have provided some great stories with him becoming the thing he hates and fears most.

 

[Humbugged]

Yes. That's what talking peace means. They are the INHUMANS, we don't know the extent of heir powers yet, we know they have at least one that can teleport multiple people at a time out of there. They didn't even try to do things non violently.

Talking peace does not involve airpower sitting outside as a big stick during talks .Threatening and cowing who you are supposed to be having the cozy chat with is called blackmail

We have heard it was the way of the old SHIELD...we didn't get a chance to see what the new SHIELD would do because their main negotiator was murdered.

they tried to kill their own agent who was at that point already in custody just because .The talk about 'things' and 'it' gives me pointers as well

You seem to be taking this personally....has SHIELD been tracking you?

Just don't like the woobyfication of a Fascist scrote

We don't know....because before anyone could discuss it the SHIELD representative was murdered.

Yeah she should have waited until he had his loaded gun that he took into the negotiations with him out.And probably until he had a few more jets up before raising her head from his feet

We were told this when Hydra was secretly in control of most things...so we don't really know the truth as to what happened. As in most thing that happen in this show....until you actually see them show what happened, you have no idea of the truth. For example...the "Cavalry" story.

And we were told that the two teams that went in after the baby were SHIELD and it was SHIELD agents that took her out of China and had her childhood screwed with

 

[Vartha]

Talking peace does not involve airpower sitting outside as a big stick during talks .Threatening and cowing who you are supposed to be having the cozy chat with is called blackmail




they tried to kill their own agent who was at that point already in custody just because .The talk about 'things' and 'it' gives me pointers as well



Just don't like the woobyfication of a Fascist scrote



Yeah she should have waited until he had his loaded gun that he took into the negotiations with him out.And probably until he had a few more jets up before raising her head from his feet




And we were told that the two teams that went in after the baby were SHIELD and it was SHIELD agents that took her out of China and had her childhood screwed with

Well look at it this way, MAY might have made a deal with shield she'd stay on if none of that were mentioned. Look at the deal Clint made with Shield for his family for example

 

[iambranded]

Anyone get excited when Mac said he decided to leave? LOVED IT

 

[WhiteWalker]

I think the whole scene with Jiaying scolding Raina and putting her under house arrest was a ruse. It's sole intent was to play on Skye's emotions about Raina. It was orchestrated to manipulate Skye into thinking that Jiaying had benevolent intentions; That she actually wanted to talk peace. So when the s**t hit the fan, Skye would tend to side with the in humans. Everything Jiaying has done, has been about winning over Skye's trust, and she capitalized on the fact that it was Gonzales, not Coulson, that showed up.

At this point Skye's definitely not going to be with SHIELD. She's not going to want to see her friends hurt, but she won't side with them either. It's almost a certainty that we'll not see a reconciliation before season's end. However, I have a feeling that Skye's going to find out that Jiaying deceived her at some point. I think it may have something to do with the little insurance policy that Gonzales gave to Jiaying. She will almost assuredly be giving it to Skye. She'll probably tell her she's been saving it with hopes of giving it to her once they found her. I just have this feeling that little trinket is important to the story. Maybe skye finds out that Gonzales actually gave it to Jiaying as a symbolic gesture. Either way Skye will eventually find out the truth.

 

[The Chris]

Anyone get excited when Mac said he decided to leave? LOVED IT

Yeah i was happy. So it doesn't matter that the protocol he kept secret ended up being a vehicle used to save mass amounts of lives during a throwdown with a powerful angry machine, and it doesn't matter that his plans have lead to Hydra in the worst position they've been in since the 40's, all that matters is that he has alien blood in him? Well be gone with you then! I didn't see enough use in you anyway!

 

[C. Lee]

Talking peace does not involve airpower sitting outside as a big stick during talks .Threatening and cowing who you are supposed to be having the cozy chat with is called blackmail

To me....threatening would be the aircraft hovering with their guns aimed at the houses. Sitting on the ground (in the territory of the other people) makes them transportation vehicles first.

they tried to kill their own agent who was at that point already in custody just because .The talk about 'things' and 'it' gives me pointers as well

I don't get that reference, so can't comment

Just don't like the woobyfication of a Fascist scrote

Americans and British are a people separated by a common language. But basically I take it you are very exciteable about it.

Yeah she should have waited until he had his loaded gun that he took into the negotiations with him out.And probably until he had a few more jets up before raising her head from his feet

Over exaggerate much? Yes, his motives and how he would handle the situation were suspect...but you and she it seems assumed the absolute worst and thus move very quickly away from negotiating to murder and war.

And we were told that the two teams that went in after the baby were SHIELD and it was SHIELD agents that took her out of China and had her childhood screwed with

And I say it again....it was done at the time that Hydra was pulling the strings of SHIELD....so we do not know if the story is true or partially true or what....and if it was true that SHIELD agents did it, were they good SHIELD agents or Hydra SHIELD agents? Having Hydra imbedded in them calls all past deeds of SHIELD into question.

 

[nogolf33]

Yeah i was happy. So it doesn't matter that the protocol he kept secret ended up being a vehicle used to save mass amounts of lives during a throwdown with a powerful angry machine, and it doesn't matter that his plans have lead to Hydra in the worst position they've been in since the 40's, all that matters is that he has alien blood in him? Well be gone with you then! I didn't see enough use in you anyway!

Yeah Mack, where are your priorities? Doesn't he know to keep his friends close and his enemies closer? The decision looks like xenophobia more than skepticism.

 

[nogolf33]

The last few episodes were fantastic and this one builds on them. The the shield group conflict shifted abruptly following Ultron's worldwide attacks. Coulson agreeing to work with the others as an advisory council made sense to me. Coulson is not an idealogue, he works toward large objectives with what he has. He is a different person as leader of Shield but the change seems natural. The 'nushield' leaders seem more rigid.

What I liked best was the gradual reveal of Cal's wife. Rather than being banished, Cal and she still have a relationship. They work together, she still has feelings for him. I forgot that they killed agents together while searching for Skye, thanks for the poster above reminding me. This just reinforces that Jiaying is quite capable of deception and violence to protect her people, stay in power, and keep Skye/Daisy.

Is Cal going on a suicide mission to tear apart Shield HQ, or will his formula change his body and mind irrevocably?

Does Jiaying have some kind of empathy ability in addition to healing? She seems very influential in one-on-one situations. Could she be Raina's mother???

 

[Chemistro]

I think the whole scene with Jiaying scolding Raina and putting her under house arrest was a ruse. It's sole intent was to play on Skye's emotions about Raina. It was orchestrated to manipulate Skye into thinking that Jiaying had benevolent intentions; That she actually wanted to talk peace. So when the s**t hit the fan, Skye would tend to side with the in humans. Everything Jiaying has done, has been about winning over Skye's trust, and she capitalized on the fact that it was Gonzales, not Coulson, that showed up.

I don't think that was the sole intent, though it may have been a bonus. Remember, Raina tried to persuade Gordon to betray Jiaying and take her out of there by surprise, and then she would be in charge.
Maybe Raina was actually trying to protect them - perhaps she was, but she was also trying to take over and be in power, when justifying her behavior to herself as an act required to save the commuinity -, but that's not what Jiaying believed. As far as she knew - all the info she had about Raina, from Skye, from Cal, and now from Gordon - told her she wasn't to be trusted. Not that Jiaying was, but from the perspective of Jiaying, Raina was an immediate threat to her leadership that needed to be neutralized.

At this point Skye's definitely not going to be with SHIELD. She's not going to want to see her friends hurt, but she won't side with them either. It's almost a certainty that we'll not see a reconciliation before season's end. However, I have a feeling that Skye's going to find out that Jiaying deceived her at some point. I think it may have something to do with the little insurance policy that Gonzales gave to Jiaying. She will almost assuredly be giving it to Skye. She'll probably tell her she's been saving it with hopes of giving it to her once they found her. I just have this feeling that little trinket is important to the story. Maybe skye finds out that Gonzales actually gave it to Jiaying as a symbolic gesture. Either way Skye will eventually find out the truth.

I agree she'll eventually find out.
As for the gift, that's an interesting option, and it would be a nice twist. At this point, though, there are plenty of options. For example, Skye may suspect the truth when Cal attacks (which will make it look as if it was planned all along, as it wsa); Jiaying or more likely Cal might something by mistake; Raina might tell Skye (in the finale) something that she later uses to put the pieces together; Jiaying might do extreme things in the war, which might prompt Skye to confront her, etc.

 

[SomeOldGuy]

I think the whole scene with Jiaying scolding Raina and putting her under house arrest was a ruse. It's sole intent was to play on Skye's emotions about Raina. It was orchestrated to manipulate Skye into thinking that Jiaying had benevolent intentions; That she actually wanted to talk peace. So when the s**t hit the fan, Skye would tend to side with the in humans. Everything Jiaying has done, has been about winning over Skye's trust, and she capitalized on the fact that it was Gonzales, not Coulson, that showed up.

I think Jiaying & Co. certainly took advantage of the situation to play on Skye's emotions as you suggest, but I don't think it was a ruse. Thanks to her precognitive powers, Raina knew the truth -- that Jaiying was planning to start a war with SHIELD. Thus she had to be neutralized. I wouldn't be surprised if Jaiying actively schemes to kill her off, if not in the season finale then in season 3.

To me, this sequence explained why she permits so few people to go through the terrigenesis process, and why those who go through it "unauthorized" are subject to execution. Since the results are unpredictable, any new Inhuman could become a threat to her leadership. And right now Raina is a big threat to Jaiying. Painting her as untrustworthy and manipulative is necessary to making sure no one believes her about Jaiying's true motives.

 

[Humbugged]

To me....threatening would be the aircraft hovering with their guns aimed at the houses. Sitting on the ground (in the territory of the other people) makes them transportation vehicles first.

He took a loaded pistol into her house and made demands .There were armed agents wandering the grounds .Tooled up enough for you?

I don't get that reference, so can't comment

So you missed the multiple occasions where he described both Skye and Mike as IT and THING ? Or the fact that nuSHIELD sent a load of armed men in the middle of the night to murder another SHIELD agent.If they are that eager to kill their own I really don't see them being all fluffy with Gifteds they don't have a connection to.

Americans and British are a people separated by a common language. But basically I take it you are very exciteable about it.

No I just didn't like Gonzalez he was a Fascist scumbag who for some unknown reason is being deified (probably because it was EJO)

Over exaggerate much? Yes, his motives and how he would handle the situation were suspect...but you and she it seems assumed the absolute worst and thus move very quickly away from negotiating to murder and war.

Because her husband and daughter had already been Indexed and in Skye's case they attempted to kill her afterwards anyway and she wanted nothing to do with it .And there was no negotiating ,From the lips of Hot Seat Phil - Indexing Minimum

And I say it again....it was done at the time that Hydra was pulling the strings of SHIELD....so we do not know if the story is true or partially true or what....and if it was true that SHIELD agents did it, were they good SHIELD agents or Hydra SHIELD agents? Having Hydra imbedded in them calls all past deeds of SHIELD into question.

So if SHIELD did good - Yay SHIELD .But if they pulled a shady stunt - lets fanwank it as HYDRA .That what we are going for ? We know SHIELD pulled shady **** like wet ops - we even had one on the show this season .

We had an actual SHIELD agent talk about taking Skye from China (because they decided she was an 0-8-4) ,and that his partner was responsible for arranging that she would be constantly moved about in the Foster Care System

 

[WhiteWalker]

I agree she'll eventually find out.
As for the gift, that's an interesting option, and it would be a nice twist. At this point, though, there are plenty of options. For example, Skye may suspect the truth when Cal attacks (which will make it look as if it was planned all along, as it wsa); Jiaying or more likely Cal might something by mistake; Raina might tell Skye (in the finale) something that she later uses to put the pieces together; Jiaying might do extreme things in the war, which might prompt Skye to confront her, etc.

When Weaver gave Gonzales the gift, he referred to it as an insurance policy. Given his nature, I don't think he would have called it that unless it was to come into play if the talk with Jiaying went South. I think the gift was chosen for it's sentimental value so that it wouldn't just be discarded by Jiaying after the meeting. It's important somehow, I just don't know how. Maybe there is a tracker or a communications device built into the box. It would fit with Gonzales' character not to take anything Jiaying says at face value. Bugging her office would be an effective way to find out what her intentions truly are.

 

[Chemistro]

When Weaver gave Gonzales the gift, he referred to it as an insurance policy. Given his nature, I don't think he would have called it that unless it was to come into play if the talk with Jiaying went South. I think the gift was chosen for it's sentimental value so that it wouldn't just be discarded by Jiaying after the meeting. It's important somehow, I just don't know how. Maybe there is a tracker or a communications device built into the box. It would fit with Gonzales' character not to take anything Jiaying says at face value. Bugging her office would be an effective way to find out what her intentions truly are.

Good theories, a tracker or a microphone - or both - would be very much in line with Gonzales's previous behavior.
Still, one would expect Gonzales to have a microphone on him to record the interview anyway, and maybe even a small camera - unless they were concerned that Lincoln could detect any electronic devices, but then again, he could always turn them on only when he's alone with Jiaying.

 

[KingCheops]

Gonzalez and nuSHIELD handled the whole situation very poorly. They have no jurisdiction anymore but they are still swaggering around pretending that they matter. Don't make threats like Gonzalez did and expect to survive the encounter.

That being said anyone who thinks this is out of character for Jiayang hasn't been paying proper attention to her words and actions. She's all about terrible secrets.

 

[Silver Surfer]

So the new SHIELD council? without Gonzalez, does it have any weight over Coulson left? It's just May and two jobbers, considering Bobbi will be leaving for her own show.

 

[C. Lee]

He took a loaded pistol into her house and made demands .There were armed agents wandering the grounds .Tooled up enough for you?

He went into potentinally hostile area (which it turns out was hostile) of an unknown number of super powered people (a couple of who had recently teleported into his ship for unknown reasons).

So you missed the multiple occasions where he described both Skye and Mike as IT and THING ? Or the fact that nuSHIELD sent a load of armed men in the middle of the night to murder another SHIELD agent.If they are that eager to kill their own I really don't see them being all fluffy with Gifteds they don't have a connection to.

Yep. I don't know your situation at home, but I have an eight year old kid. This is at times a distraction for me. That is why I said I couldn't comment on something I didn't remember.

No I just didn't like Gonzalez he was a Fascist scumbag who for some unknown reason is being deified (probably because it was EJO)

You haven't seen me deifying him. I agree he was a pain in the ass (I didn't like him and thought he was highly suspicious from the beginning) but I wasn't calling for his murder.

Because her husband and daughter had already been Indexed and in Skye's case they attempted to kill her afterwards anyway and she wanted nothing to do with it .And there was no negotiating ,From the lips of Hot Seat Phil - Indexing Minimum

And yet her daughter recommended they talk to SHIELD.

So if SHIELD did good - Yay SHIELD .But if they pulled a shady stunt - lets fanwank it as HYDRA .That what we are going for ? We know SHIELD pulled shady **** like wet ops - we even had one on the show this season .

I didn't say that. I said that everything that SHIELD has done in the past is now suspect. I was saying that we do not know if her being taken was done by Hydra or loyal SHIELD agents. If it was Hydra, then we know they were bad guys and that is the kind of things we expect from them....if it was by loyal SHIELD agents then we must now question the integrity of what we once considered "good" people. It also makes us question if they were good people following what they thought were good orders but not knowing the full story. I don't know about you....but I try not to jump to conclusions about things or people on this show.

We had an actual SHIELD agent talk about taking Skye from China (because they decided she was an 0-8-4) ,and that his partner was responsible for arranging that she would be constantly moved about in the Foster Care System

And from what I remember...the reasoning was for her protection. I don't remember them saying - here's the plan....we are going to kidnap this innocent child for no reason what so ever, and then shuttle her from one foster family to another just to screw up her life, because we are evil and get off on things like that.

 

[C. Lee]

When Weaver gave Gonzales the gift, he referred to it as an insurance policy. Given his nature, I don't think he would have called it that unless it was to come into play if the talk with Jiaying went South. I think the gift was chosen for it's sentimental value so that it wouldn't just be discarded by Jiaying after the meeting. It's important somehow, I just don't know how. Maybe there is a tracker or a communications device built into the box. It would fit with Gonzales' character not to take anything Jiaying says at face value. Bugging her office would be an effective way to find out what her intentions truly are.

Yeah, I think it has something more to it that will come into play later.

Gonzalez and nuSHIELD handled the whole situation very poorly. They have no jurisdiction anymore but they are still swaggering around pretending that they matter. Don't make threats like Gonzalez did and expect to survive the encounter.

Yep, he and the New SHIELD council were handling everything wrong from their first introduction to me.

So the new SHIELD council? without Gonzalez, does it have any weight over Coulson left? It's just May and two jobbers, considering Bobbi will be leaving for her own show.

I think his death as made the New Council obsolete.

 

[Seb]

Gonzalez and nuSHIELD handled the whole situation very poorly. They have no jurisdiction anymore but they are still swaggering around pretending that they matter. Don't make threats like Gonzalez did and expect to survive the encounter.

That being said anyone who thinks this is out of character for Jiayang hasn't been paying proper attention to her words and actions. She's all about terrible secrets.

The jurisdiction thing is the most bothersome. SHIELD are essentially just an incredibly organised vigilante organisation now. They have no jurisdiction anywhere, they want to Index people with powers just in case and they want to do it to people who have actively isolated themselves and caused very few problems to the outside world.

SHIELD is basically doing a USA: They tout themselves as the paragons of virtue and insist that they know everything about everyone and threaten anyone who doesn't submit.

Was Jiaying's reaction morally sound? No. But it was a completely understandable response to a bunch of armed thugs appearing at your house and demanding that they be able to tag you and your family. What else could she have done, especially after Gonzales made it clear that he wanted to Index every Inhuman. Her response was to bring up the way others have acted in the past. She's old enough to have seen, maybe even with her own eyes, the horrors that people have visited upon people they view as 'other'. SHIELD is a largely American organisation, or at least it's portrayed as such. She's watched the Vietnam war, the Japanese internment camps, the way black people, and other minorities, were historically treated. She might even be old enough to have seen slavery, European Imperialism and such with her own eyes.

Honestly, if I'd seen all of that, and a military force arrive at my doorstep, demanding compliance, I doubt I would have waited for them to make the first move.

 

[Heretic]

This season has been great overall, but one of the bigger problems is that SHIELD just isn't likeable. Several episodes could be eliminated if they just plain sat down and talked...and not insisted that people submit themselves to their will.

However, it does appear that this Nu-SHIELD thing was just a stall tactic to get to Ultron (like many of us predicted) and not a long-term build to Civil War, so hopefully they can segue out of it smoothly.

 

[DN91]

Anyone get excited when Mac said he decided to leave? LOVED IT

We all know he's gonna come back in some capacity next week. Some characters rarely leave without any fanfare to slink off into the shadows.

 

[Heretic]

In the comics, didn't Mac write a book exposing SHIELDs secrets? That could be a subplot of sorts that turns the public against the heroes, so that the show could claim a tie-in with Civil War.

 

[Loki882]

-Ok now I'm convinced. Jiayang=Inhuman Magneto. Pretty much everything fits. And no, premeditatedly murdering a guy (yes, she totally planned to do that) who was in no way acting threatening, is not a good move. Now you've REALLY made SHIELD fear you, you've basically confirmed the worst fears that some of them had.

"Wild Card Ward" is back, Hell yes.