Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of SHIELD - S02E16 - "AfterLife"

[WhiteWalker]

Yeah, right.Then why did Morse say: "I.C.E.R.s only."

I wasn't implying that Bobbi knew about it.

 

[Humbugged]

Yeah, right.Then why did Morse say: "I.C.E.R.s only."

So why did the guy that Skye knocked out creep up behind her with a real gun ,with a round chambered ,the safety off and point it at the back of her head ?

He could easily have shot her with an ICER but didn't,just like that nice innocent fellow Calderon who only fired once Skye had dropped the gun she took from Assassin #1 and put her hands up.

 

[WhiteWalker]

So why did the guy that Skye knocked out creep up behind her with a real gun ,with a round chambered ,the safety off and point it at the back of her head ?

He could easily have shot her with an ICER but didn't,just like that nice innocent fellow Calderon who only fired once Skye had dropped the gun she took from Assassin #1 and put her hands up.

Exactly, all evidence points to them looking to remove her in a body bag. And Bobbi was left out of the loop.

 

[Uskok]

So why did the guy that Skye knocked out creep up behind her with a real gun ,with a round chambered ,the safety off and point it at the back of her head ?

So he could say "Hands in the air" and fire immediately if she doesn't comply. That's standard procedure.

 

[Humbugged]

So he could say "Hands in the air" and fire immediately if she doesn't comply. That's standard procedure.

With a real gun? When Bobbi had told him to use an ICER ?

That is the point - he was told by Bobbi to go non -lethal and either Calderon or someone else told him to use a real gun or he did it off his own back ?

And you are deliberately missing that point .

ICER = non lethal regular gun = lethal

If you don't want to kill her why swap one for the other ?

 

[WhiteWalker]

So he could say "Hands in the air" and fire immediately if she doesn't comply. That's standard procedure.

Even he wasn't following orders. Which were, "Do not approach the target alone. You see her, you send up a flare"

 

[Uskok]

Even he wasn't following orders. Which were, "Do not approach the target alone. You see her, you send up a flare"

Skye taking down two S.H.I.E.L.D. agents single-handedly would look a bit unrealistic.

And you are deliberately missing that point .

ICER = non lethal regular gun = lethal

If you don't want to kill her why swap one for the other ?

Did you see him swapping the guns? Maybe he didn't even have an I.C.E.R.

 

[WhiteWalker]

Skye taking down two S.H.I.E.L.D. agents single-handedly would look a bit unrealistic.



Did you see him swapping the guns? Maybe he didn't even have an I.C.E.R.

They were getting their orders in the quinjet. Calderon said, and I quote, "Do not approach the target alone. You see her, you send up a flare" then Bobbi Immediately says, "Remember, Skye's a SHIELD agent like one of us, ICERs only." They then proceed to leave the quinjet and the camera shows Calderon walking behind Bobbi, and quietly chambering a round in his pistol.

 

[Uskok]

They were getting their orders in the quinjet. Calderon said, and I quote, "Do not approach the target alone. You see her, you send up a flare" then Bobbi Immediately says, "Remember, Skye's a SHIELD agent like one of us, ICERs only." They then proceed to leave the quinjet and the camera shows Calderon walking behind Bobbi, and quietly chambering a round in his pistol.

We're talking about the agent that approached Skye, not about Calderon. Maybe he didn't have an I.C.E.R.

 

[WhiteWalker]

The problem with that scene is that perception is everything. We, the audience, have a full view of what's happening. However, if you look at it from the point of view of those involved then things appear differently. For instance, they hear a shot ring out. Then they come across Skye, standing over a body with a gun in her hand. As I said, perception is everything.

 

[WhiteWalker]

We're talking about the agent that approached Skye, not about Calderon. Maybe he didn't have an I.C.E.R.

I'm not really interested in maybe. Maybe doesn't bring anything to the debate. The inference made in the quinjet, is that they had ICERs. That's good enough for me. But If you wish to head down a speculative path, by all means go.

 

[Dregride]

The problem with that scene is that perception is everything. We, the audience, have a full view of what's happening. However, if you look at it from the point of view of those involved then things appear differently. For instance, they hear a shot ring out. Then they come across Skye, standing over a body with a gun in her hand. As I said, perception is everything.

Huh. I never thought of it that way. Calderons still a ****ing dick who undoubtedly went in there with the intention to kill skye along with his men( hence both of them having firearms and not ICERs) so that renders it moot.
but Bobbi didn't have that perspective, if she did she wouldnt have warned skye that calderon would shoot. Nobody died in that encounter tho. Skye had the chance to kill them all and didn't, and instead dropped the gun and put up her hands. I wonder if the faux-shield committee will even bring that up. Two more days.

 

[WhiteWalker]

Huh. I never thought of it that way. Calderons still a ****ing dick who undoubtedly went in there with the intention to kill skye along with his men( hence both of them having firearms and not ICERs) so that renders it moot.
but Bobbi didn't have that perspective, if she did she wouldnt have warned skye that calderon would shoot. Nobody died in that encounter tho. Skye had the chance to kill them all and didn't, and instead dropped the gun and put up her hands. I wonder if the faux-shield committee will even bring that up. Two more days.

I agree with you on both points. Calderon is the obligatory ass hole and Bobbi is still Skye's friend.

 

[Chemistro]

We're talking about the agent that approached Skye, not about Calderon. Maybe he didn't have an I.C.E.R.

If he didn't have an icer but he was willing to follow Bobbi's orders "remember, icers only", he should (and one would expect he would) have said on the quinjet "I don't have icers; pass me some", or something like that. Given the "remember", it seems they had been instructed to carry icers when they were on the quinjet, and chances are they did have icers: the agent attacked Skye with his side arm, not with his rifle. That suggests the rifles were loaded with icers in front of Bobbi (to deceive her), but they had real bullets in their pistols. The order about the flare may well have been just to trick Bobbi (the real orders may have been given earlier by Calderon), if the goal was to make it look like something went wrong (e.g., and agent could kill Skye, and then say she attacked him first).

 

[Mike5575]

The problem with that scene is that perception is everything. We, the audience, have a full view of what's happening. However, if you look at it from the point of view of those involved then things appear differently. For instance, they hear a shot ring out. Then they come across Skye, standing over a body with a gun in her hand. As I said, perception is everything.

Good point, but that doesn't change too much. From his point of view, he may come to the assumption that Skye shot the guard, but Calderon clearly had the jump on her. He could have easily gave her verbal warnings to drop the weapon, but he didn't.

 

[WhiteWalker]

Good point, but that doesn't change too much. From his point of view, he may come to the assumption that Skye shot the guard, but Calderon clearly had the jump on her. He could have easily gave her verbal warnings to drop the weapon, but he didn't.

I was just making a comment about different perspectives. I was not putting forth any kind of theory. It was only meant to be food for thought. Calderon didn't have to say anything because as soon as Skye heard Bobbi yell, she immediately threw the gun down and showed her hands.

http://youtu.be/ee50WCWqukY

 

[WhiteWalker]

Judging by this promo, it looks like Fitz is leaving and Simmons is staying with realSHIELD. At the 23 sec mark it looks like Bobbi, Simmons and Mack are seeing him out the door.

http://youtu.be/3B8djD8kdEI

 

[ralphuniverse]

G'day,
Its to be expected. Simmons showed her true character when it came to Fitz. I'm sure she will be happy building gas chambers for Inhumans.

ta

Ralph

Judging by this promo, it looks like Fitz is leaving and Simmons is staying with realSHIELD. At the 23 sec mark it looks like Bobbi, Simmons and Mack are seeing him out the door.

http://youtu.be/3B8djD8kdEI

 

[ThatNewGuy]

They really need to tighten up the writing on this show. These are meant to be Shield, the top spies in the world and supposedly very intelligent. Yet week after week they make stupid decisions.

I don't really post much here at all, but this comment caught my eye, because your claim is that because they're the top spy agency in the world they're supposed to be smart.

The CIA and the former KGB were considered the best spy agencies in the world for their time. I don't really know who cast that vote, but that seems to be the consensus a lot of people have. Perhaps it's just mindless brainwashing by the United States civilization. The KGB is no longer in existence and was replaced by the FSB. I haven't really heard anything promising about the FSB, thus pretty much leaves the CIA as the premier spy agency in the world.

Perhaps there are other which are better, I've heard good things about the Mossad and SIS (aka MI6), but I'm not sure if they really are better or not. Nor will I ever actually know. For arguments sake let's say they're about on par.

That having been said, I direct you to this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qRrAkIXYn8

I'm not really a fan of MSNBC, or this woman, but she did the homework and gathered a lot of examples to make a point, thus saving me the trouble of doing so. (You really don't have to watch it past 8 min if you don't want too)

Her point being, that these people who are supposed to be really smart aren't really as smart as we give them credit for. Really when you get right down to it they're glorified cops who have a lapse in judgement just like anybody else, and honestly if you're not a dee dee dee, and have a clean record, you could make it into the FBI or the CIA if you really wanted too.

 

[ralphuniverse]

G'day,

At the moment I wouldn't really say anyone is actually being stupid. Just making wrong decisions based on incomplete information. Whats driving everyone is fear. Fear of the Inhumans which is the great unknown. At this stage both Gonzales approach and the more moderate but still wary Coulson approach make sense. Skye is going to have to show Coulson that the Inhumans are not really a threat or at least they can co-exist.

ta

Ralph

I don't really post much here at all, but this comment caught my eye, because your claim is that because they're the top spy agency in the world they're supposed to be smart.

The CIA and the former KGB were considered the best spy agencies in the world for their time. I don't really know who cast that vote, but that seems to be the consensus a lot of people have. Perhaps it's just mindless brainwashing by the United States civilization. The KGB is no longer in existence and was replaced by the FSB. I haven't really heard anything promising about the FSB, thus pretty much leaves the CIA as the premier spy agency in the world.

Perhaps there are other which are better, I've heard good things about the Mossad and SIS (aka MI6), but I'm not sure if they really are better or not. Nor will I ever actually know. For arguments sake let's say they're about on par.

That having been said, I direct you to this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qRrAkIXYn8

I'm not really a fan of MSNBC, or this woman, but she did the homework and gathered a lot of examples to make a point, thus saving me the trouble of doing so. (You really don't have to watch it past 8 min if you don't want too)

Her point being, that these people who are supposed to be really smart aren't really as smart as we give them credit for. Really when you get right down to it they're glorified cops who have a lapse in judgement just like anybody else, and honestly if you're not a dee dee dee, and have a clean record, you could make it into the FBI or the CIA if you really wanted too.

 

[BatsDC]

Simmons has become unbearable as a character. How can anyone still like her?

 

[Pokkle]

She hasn't done anything bad yet.
She wanted to cure Skye, not kill her and Coulson agree with her gantlet.

Even if she become a bad girl, I love bad guy like Loki, Magneto, Ward, the Joker,etc

 

[biglite351]

So he could say "Hands in the air" and fire immediately if she doesn't comply. That's standard procedure.

That is so very wrong. The only thing that is standard procedure in is if you plan to kill the person but know that you are being recorded (body camera, etc). That way you have plausible denial ability.

If officers/military shot like that (very quickly after first direction) then there would be a lot, A LOT, more dead suspects/persons of interest out there.

 

[biglite351]

Did you see him swapping the guns? Maybe he didn't even have an I.C.E.R.

Exactly, because he had no intentions on her continuing to breath. Bobbi was the only one to step off the jet without the plan to kill her. They were on the jet when Bobbi, one of the 5, gave the order for ICERs only. If anyone did not have an ICER they should have immediately re-armed.

 

[fixxxer]

Simmons has become unbearable as a character. How can anyone still like her?

I like her.

I think a lot of people are confusing who one roots for on the show with bad characterization. If she continues on the path she's on, I will absolutely root against her character on the show, but that isn't to say that her character has become less interesting.