Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of SHIELD TV series for ABC - General Discussion - Part 7

[Human Torch]

No, it isn't. Movies are in a position to correct the mistakes of the comics.

There is no "mistake" to correct.If it were up to some of you, we should go back to the senate hearings of the 50s.The comics are such "subversive material",that needs to be corrected.

 

[seahammer]

Bit larger version found at SpoilerTV

Question, any idea what that gold thing is on her left hip (our right as we look at her)??

Awesome! Now let's see Lorelei!

 

[Doc Ock]

Sif!!!

 

[cherokeesam]

If it was good enough for the comics for 70 years (and live action for a portion of that) it's good enough for the movies.

I'm no fan of the prudery towards sexy costumes shown by some around here, but I'd like to point out that Ms. Marvel's "swimsuit" hasn't been around for 70 years; in fact, half that. Carol designed the black suit in 1978. And where have you seen a "live action" version of Ms. Marvel, beyond cosplay...?

 

[Just_Human]

mystery solved

Thanks

 

[Crimson King]

There is no "mistake" to correct.If it were up to some of you, we should go back to the senate hearings of the 50s.The comics are such "subversive material",that needs to be corrected.

I don't think you understand my argument. Either that or you're ignoring it, which is fine. It's off topic, anyway.

 

[M-2]

They should have made this SIF episode a Two-Episode Story arc... You can't have Lady Sif on the Show and just give her one episode!!

 

[Herolee10]

Even though it's the same costume and hairstyle from the film, why does it feel a bit "different" from how it actually looked on film?

 

[Six]

I don't think the oversexualization of women in comics is really up for debate.

The question isn't whether women are over sexualized in comics. The question is the sexualization of women in the genre more important than the sexualization of men? Theres no denying that both are sexualized, but there is room for debate on whether its as huge as a problem as some people are making it out to be.

The main demographic for comic books has generally been young males, so its pretty obvious who they've been trying to appeal to.
The movies on the other hand have a more evened out demographic of males and females, hence the ripped sweaty shirtless men in every superhero film. I say if you're going to sexualize your characters, female characters shouldn't be off limits simply because they're female. Whether you believe in a patriarchy or not, there should always be debate to prevent dogmatic viewpoints from dominating society.

 

[Human Torch]

The question isn't whether women are over sexualized in comics. The question is the sexualization of women in the genre more important than the sexualization of men? Theres no denying that both are sexualized, but there is room for debate on whether its as huge as a problem as some people are making it out to be.

The main demographic for comic books has generally been young males, so its pretty obvious who they've been trying to appeal to.
The movies on the other hand have a more evened out demographic of males and females, hence the ripped sweaty shirtless men in every superhero film. I say if you're going to sexualize your characters, female characters shouldn't be off limits simply because they're female. Whether you believe in a patriarchy or not, there should always be debate to prevent dogmatic viewpoints from dominating society.

 

[Dark Raven]

Even though it's the same costume and hairstyle from the film, why does it feel a bit "different" from how it actually looked on film?

Maybe this is the way it actually looks, but on film, there are certain filters etc that make it look better, whereas on a TV budget and with TV cinematography, it doesn't look as great.

 

[Crimson King]

The question isn't whether women are over sexualized in comics. The question is the sexualization of women in the genre more important than the sexualization of men? Theres no denying that both are sexualized, but there is room for debate on whether its as huge as a problem as some people are making it out to be.

The main demographic for comic books has generally been young males, so its pretty obvious who they've been trying to appeal to.
The movies on the other hand have a more evened out demographic of males and females, hence the ripped sweaty shirtless men in every superhero film. I say if you're going to sexualize your characters, female characters shouldn't be off limits simply because they're female. Whether you believe in a patriarchy or not, there should always be debate to prevent dogmatic viewpoints from dominating society.

I've never denied that men are also sexualized--I get that it's par for the course when creating modern gods, basically. That's what HT was missing. Women, however, are presented in hypersexual poses and costumes far more than the men. Why? Because they're usually drawn by men.

The only purpose to Ms. Marvel's bathing suit is to show off her body. It makes absolutely no sense for her character. It's stuff like that we'll likely see fixed in the movies. They've tried to move away from that before in comics, but too many fans see costume changes as some sort of affront to civilization, so they revolt. And they wonder why it's so hard to gain female readers.

 

[BoredGuy]

I've never denied that men are also sexualized--I get that it's par for the course when creating modern gods, basically. That's what HT was missing. Women, however, are presented in hypersexual poses and costumes far more than the men. Why? Because they're usually drawn by men.

The only purpose to Ms. Marvel's bathing suit is to show off her body. It makes absolutely no sense for her character. It's stuff like that we'll likely see fixed in the movies. They've tried to move away from that before in comics, but too many fans see costume changes as some sort of affront to civilization, so they revolt. And they wonder why it's so hard to gain female readers.

See, my problem with the "women have sexier costumes" argument is:
From an Art and anatomy perspective, most comic characters, male and female, ARE NUDE, with just color changes to different portions. Ya know, I mean, how is Spider-woman's costume any sexier than say.... Cyclops's? There both in skin tight body suits that are, for all intents and purposes, body paint. Even when female characters have cleavage or something, it's no different from the fully covered characters in terms of how they're drawn.
Modern artists ARE including more fabric and texture to make the characters look less nude, but historically, the medium has always included more or less fully nude men and women, with some color coverin' up the naughty bits. Ms. Marvel's costume, sexy and ridiculous? sure... but no worse than any dude still runnin' around in spandex puttin his bulge in everyone's face.

And then when it comes to films, yeah, let's not even get started, shirtless dudes are a requirement in CBM's, whereas some real cleavage on Black Widow is just outta the question

 

[Crimson King]

See, my problem with the "women have sexier costumes" argument is:
From an Art and anatomy perspective, most comic characters, male and female, ARE NUDE, with just color changes to different portions. Ya know, I mean, how is Spider-woman's costume any sexier than say.... Cyclops's? There both in skin tight body suits that are, for all intents and purposes, body paint. Even when female characters have cleavage or something, it's no different from the fully covered characters in terms of how they're drawn.
Modern artists ARE including more fabric and texture to make the characters look less nude, but historically, the medium has always included more or less fully nude men and women, with some color coverin' up the naughty bits. Ms. Marvel's costume, sexy and ridiculous? sure... but no worse than any dude still runnin' around in spandex puttin his bulge in everyone's face.

And then when it comes to films, yeah, let's not even get started, shirtless dudes are a requirement in CBM's, whereas some real cleavage on Black Widow is just outta the question

I don't want to keep going over the same thing. Needless to say, I disagree with you and I think you're outright ignoring the obvious. There's an imbalance to how the two sexes are portrayed in comics. Imbalance does not mean that some sexualization doesn't exist on both sides.

 

[Shakel92]

I don't think that Black Widow has much cleavage to show.


But that skin tight leather on her bottom really looks nice.

 

[BoredGuy]

I don't want to keep going over the same thing. Needless to say, I disagree with you and I think you're outright ignoring the obvious. There's an imbalance to how the two sexes are portrayed in comics. Imbalance does not mean that some sexualization doesn't exist on both sides.

I agree when it comes to the poses artists (or rather, certain, but definitely not most artists) put them in, and about the stories that get told with female characters (though that's changing to)

but I was specifically talking about costume design, and there's very little imbalance there... all superheroes are impossibly pretty, incredibly fit nudists

 

[Loki882]

I think that the big difference is that while male characters may be oversexualized (though not to the same degree that female ones are), ultimately they are meant to look powerful, imposing, and badass. Female characters, on the other hand, are oversexualized PURELY for sex appeal. The male characters are drawn in such a way that the reader is supposed to think that they're awesome. The female characters are drawn in such a way as to try and give the readers boners. That is the big distinction, and female characters still get the short end of the stick.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I don't want to keep going over the same thing. Needless to say, I disagree with you and I think you're outright ignoring the obvious. There's an imbalance to how the two sexes are portrayed in comics. Imbalance does not mean that some sexualization doesn't exist on both sides.

as a gay man and a strong feminist supporter... there really is not. There's been quite alot of "money shots" for both women and gay men, in the marvel films... QUITE alot.... (the long, ass shot of Chris Evans while hitting the bunching bag.. was VERY VERY nice, as was the Shirtless Thor scene after Jane gave him some clothes) And that's just to name a few...

the argument is ridiculous. The only validity you may get.. is posing on posters. But that's honestly it.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I think that the big difference is that while male characters may be oversexualized (though not to the same degree that female ones are), ultimately they are meant to look powerful, imposing, and badass. Female characters, on the other hand, are oversexualized PURELY for sex appeal. The male characters are drawn in such a way that the reader is supposed to think that they're awesome. The female characters are drawn in such a way as to try and give the readers boners. That is the big distinction, and female characters still get the short end of the stick.

the difference is the fact that what's deemed as visually sexy, for men and women differ greatly. Most gay men (and 99% of straight women) are turned on by Masculinity... and things that look and act very "masculine". The male anatomy, the build, etc... straight men are attracted to Sirens, Vixens, and the femininity a woman brings.. Those types of sexuality don't work when reversed... Women and Gay men don't typically want to see men in seductive poses that a woman does it just comes off silly and ridiculous. It's too feminine. That's never going to change. There's certainly "sexy" poses a man can get into... but they are much different. And vice versa.... if women took on the same "sexy poses" a man would do... it just comes off overly masculine (though some people are into that too)

there's nothing wrong with a sexy woman who knows how to entice, and work her femininity.. it's the aspect of "only knowing how to do that", "lacking intelligence", and "appearing weak" that is often associated with such an attitude that is wrong. Widow and most female spies are not this at all... They're sexy, they know how to work a man using there beauty in order to accomplish a mission, but that's not who they are or what defines them... they vastly skilled, incredibly smart, and stronger than many male characters out there.

 

[Crimson King]

as a gay man and a strong feminist supporter... there really is not. There's been quite alot of "money shots" for both women and gay men, in the marvel films... QUITE alot.... (the long, ass shot of Chris Evans while hitting the bunching bag.. was VERY VERY nice, as was the Shirtless Thor scene after Jane gave him some clothes) And that's just to name a few...

the argument is ridiculous. The only validity you may get.. is posing on posters. But that's honestly it.

We were talking about the comics world, not the MCU.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Same thing applies.... Any gay comic fan will tell you how gratifying it is to look at nightwing ....

People go from one extreme to the next. Sex sells. Period. There's hunky men and vivacious women. Hell there was a great shot of loki in the shower recently singing his version of a song from wicked .

Sex appeal is everywhere. 99% if the time when people show examples of sexist comic outfits they're from dated indy comics that don't even remotely represent the comic industry

 

[coluanprime]

I think that the big difference is that while male characters may be oversexualized (though not to the same degree that female ones are), ultimately they are meant to look powerful, imposing, and badass. Female characters, on the other hand, are oversexualized PURELY for sex appeal. The male characters are drawn in such a way that the reader is supposed to think that they're awesome. The female characters are drawn in such a way as to try and give the readers boners. That is the big distinction, and female characters still get the short end of the stick.

I agree

 

[Randy Savage]

I don't think that Black Widow has much cleavage to show.


But that skin tight leather on her bottom really looks nice.

She's got some cleavage. Seen the cell phone pics?

 

[jonathancrane]

How the hell does the sexualization of comic characters relate to AOS?

 

[Silvermoon]

How the hell does the sexualization of comic characters relate to AOS?

I think this particular topic was originated when someone was wondering whether Lorelei was going be wearing something similar to what she has in the comics. The topic has segued a little since then