Homecoming All the technical details of this deal

[Zarex]

Marvel Studios won't see a single penny of the BO from Sony's MCU Spider-Man films, just as Sony won't see a single penny of the BO from Marvel Studios' films that use the character(s) of Spider-Man.

Sony gets to determine pretty much everything about MS' use of the character other than the way in which he's used creatively, and Sony in turn gets to have Feige help right the sinking ship that has been their franchise (from their POV, anyway) without having to spend a single penny in order to secure that help, and without having to share the monetary results of said help.

That's the beauty of the deal, and the reason it directly benefits Sony more than it does Marvel Studios.

The cost to Sony is that they've willingly let the FOX into the hen house. Non MCU Spidey films are a thing of the past, regardless of any behind the scenes turmoil as a result of this deal.

As Chip mentioned, merchandise is also a key factor in the deal. Unlike the X Men or the FF, Spidey is too big to fail. Marvel couldn't afford to have him lose his popularity due to failing film franchise.

This is a classic "win-win" scenario. How often do we see that?

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Civil War and Infinity War Parts 1 and 2 are gonna make unholy amounts of money. sony won't see any of that.

The Spidey solos could reach a billion, not so sure about the spin offs though.

I think the deal works out for both sides just fine. Both are winners at the end of the day.

I still think it's nuts that sony had to agree to getting nothing from the marvel films, knowing what you just said. i've said it so many times - sony's playing all this on hype that spidey being in the mcu will be big for that reason. disney should've allowed for sony to get some sort of percentage from the films that spidey will appear.

 

[DigificWriter]

The cost to Sony is that they've willingly let the FOX into the hen house. Non MCU Spidey films are a thing of the past, regardless of any behind the scenes turmoil as a result of this deal.

As Chip mentioned, merchandise is also a key factor in the deal. Unlike the X Men or the FF, Spidey is too big to fail. Marvel couldn't afford to have him lose his popularity due to failing film franchise.

This is a classic "win-win" scenario. How often do we see that?

It IS a classic "win/win" scenario, but one which, at least directly, is more heavily weighted towards the benefit of Sony, and is therefore a justifiable risk for them, especially since it's not likely to slow down their ability to keep the Spider-Man license firmly in their control for a long time and do what they want with that license.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I still think it's nuts that sony had to agree to getting nothing from the marvel films, knowing what you just said. i've said it so many times - sony's playing all this on hype that spidey being in the mcu will be big for that reason. disney should've allowed for sony to get some sort of percentage from the films that spidey will appear.

Taking this into consideration it feels like they're really hitching their wagon to these spinoffs and the fact that they "technically" take place in the world of the MCU without marvel actually being involved with them.

I don't think the spinoffs will work though, I really have zero interest in seeing movies for spider-man side characters and villains. Hopefully sony realizes this and just chooses to focus on making the best Spidey solos possible for now.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Taking this into consideration it feels like they're really hitching their wagon to these spinoffs and the fact that they "technically" take place in the world of the MCU without marvel actually being involved with them.

I don't think the spinoffs will work though, I really have zero interest in seeing movies for spider-man side characters and villains. Hopefully sony realizes this and just chooses to focus on making the best Spidey solos possible for now.

I felt the same way before the deal was made, but now that they will be a part of the mcu, I don't see why not. I don't think they should jump to it right away, maybe after a trilogy or so, but it won't be a bad idea since it will be part of a bigger picture - could even be buildup to avengers 4.

and RIGHT NOW we are hearing that marvel won't be involved in it, but when the time comes, I can definitely see sony asking for marvel to get on board. I can also definitely see it because I can see sony asking disney to allow one or two marvel characters into the story.

 

[DigificWriter]

Marvel Studios doesn't have to be directly involved with any of Sony's 'side project' films in order for Sony to ask for permission to use MCU characters in said projects. All that's required to make that happen is an extension/expansion of the current arrangement the two studios have made with one another.

 

[Spider2099]

Well hopefully these spin-offs never happen.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ You're just going to have to get used to the idea that they are.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Marvel Studios doesn't have to be directly involved with any of Sony's 'side project' films in order for Sony to ask for permission to use MCU characters in said projects. All that's required to make that happen is an extension/expansion of the current arrangement the two studios have made with one another.

i don't think they'd shut marvel out if they did offer a helping hand.

Well hopefully these spin-offs never happen.

why not? while they are postponed indefinitely, I don't think they'll go unmade.

 

[DigificWriter]

i don't think they'd shut marvel out if they did offer a helping hand.

Agreed. However, I don't know how likely it is that Marvel Studios would offer a helping hand, especially since they won't see any monetary profit from those films.

why not? while they are postponed indefinitely, I don't think they'll go unmade.

Also agreed.

They're going to happen at some point, especially now that the possibilities for them story-wise have just increased exponentially thanks to this deal with Marvel Studios.

 

[Spider2099]

i don't think they'd shut marvel out if they did offer a helping hand.

I'll be more open to these movies if:

-Marvel actually does take a role in making those movies
-The Sinister Six film is not just a redemption story about the Sinister Six and little Spider-Man

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Agreed. However, I don't know how likely it is that Marvel Studios would offer a helping hand, especially since they won't see any monetary profit from those films.



Also agreed.

They're going to happen at some point, especially now that the possibilities for them story-wise have just increased exponentially thanks to this deal with Marvel Studios.

this is the same thing all of us has been saying about marvel's involvement in the reboot, too. why you are still so vehemently opposed to it is beyond me. honestly after you've said you didn't even want the deal to happen, I can't help but feel like there's some sort of bias/denial when you post.

I like sony as a company and I don't want them to fail, but I don't want them to make more mistakes. Shutting marvel out of creative say in the spidey reboot would be their first, post-deal.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I'll be more open to these movies if:

-Marvel actually does take a role in making those movies
-The Sinister Six film is not just a redemption story about the Sinister Six and little Spider-Man

these spinoffs are still a loooooong way off, but when that production day comes, I think your first bullet point could be a given, but I'm not sure what you mean with your second.

 

[Spider2099]

these spinoffs are still a loooooong way off, but when that production day comes, I think your first bullet point could be a given, but I'm not sure what you mean with your second.

True. I don't see the spin-offs happening at least until after Avengers: Infinity War. I'll probably change my mind by then as well.

As for the second point, the S6 film was originally going to be a redemption story about the group of villains and Spider-Man was going to have a small role in it.

 

[DigificWriter]

Shutting marvel out of creative say in the spidey reboot would be their first, post-deal.

I disagree. Sony doesn't need Marvel Studios to be 'holding their hand' creatively after the 2017 film; what they need is the visibility and creative freedom and flexibility that the parameters of this deal afford them when it comes to standing on their own feet and building their franchise in the fashion that they want to.

Both studios benefit from this deal long-term even if Feige and MS don't have any direct involvement in Sony's end of things beyond 2017.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

there is no way Marvel is giving Sony permission to use MCU characters in spinoff movies where Marvel will have no creative say in what happens.

Not saying its impossible but I'd be shocked if Marvel agreed to that.

 

[Spider2099]

Except Sony hasn't pulled out a great film since 2004 and have a terrible track record. Although maybe things will be a little different now that Avi Arad and Matt Tolmach are gone. Otherwise they need A LOT of help from Marvel Studios/Kevin Feige.

 

[DigificWriter]

there is no way Marvel is giving Sony permission to use MCU characters in spinoff movies where Marvel will have no creative say in what happens.

Why not? Sony themselves did.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I disagree. Sony doesn't need Marvel Studios to be 'holding their hand' creatively after the 2017 film; what they need is the visibility and creative freedom and flexibility that the parameters of this deal afford them when it comes to standing on their own feet and building their franchise in the fashion that they want to.

Both studios benefit from this deal long-term even if Feige and MS don't have any direct involvement in Sony's end of things beyond 2017.

if you disagree then there's nothing else left to be said. sony thought they were going in a profitable direction with the asm series and s6 and now they've treaded back on that after shaking the mouse's hand. they know that marvel for the most part knows how to make good comic book movies.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

True. I don't see the spin-offs happening at least until after Avengers: Infinity War. I'll probably change my mind by then as well.

As for the second point, the S6 film was originally going to be a redemption story about the group of villains and Spider-Man was going to have a small role in it.

a redemption story against spiderman? I don't see how his role would be small if that's it.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Why not? Sony themselves did.

Because Sony needs Marvel more than the other way around.

They're not gonna risk the integrity of the universe they've spend almost a decade building without consulting on how their characters are being used.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Because Sony needs Marvel more than the other way around.

They're not gonna risk the integrity of the universe they've spend almost a decade building without consulting on how their characters are being used.

this. and when exactly did sony themselves use a non-spidey mythos character?

 

[DigificWriter]

^ This deal doesn't give Sony any direct creative say in how Marvel Studios uses Spidey; it simply allows MS to do so in exchange for the ability to piggyback off of that usage and play in MS's 'sandbox'.

 

[Spider2099]

They have to work together and plan out what is going to happen with Spider-Man in each and every movie. Sony can't do whatever they want while Marvel does whatever to the character. There needs to be a consistency since they take place in the same cinematic universe.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

one studio is breaking box office records and successfully creating new franchises with D-List characters

The other was once (and could still be) on the verge of bankruptcy and had no idea how to continue with undoubtedly their biggest property/moneymaker

And yet Marvel shouldn't be worried about how their characters on loan are being used without their creative supervision? Ok.