BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 104

[TheNextNolan22]

Wot did u sai m8?

*texting iz teh nu language*

r u talkin ****? 1v1 me on cod, bruh!

 

[Mrs. Wayne]

 

[Iceman]

I would love that angle. A Gotham gang war plot of some sorts that extends over an entire film trilogy- that way, we can truly witness the wealth of Batman's rogue gallery.

This scenario would also remove other Justice League members from popping up (for the most part) since this type of situation is logistically complex and deals with many intertwining, continuous relations that needs to be tackled from the underground. What I'm saying is that the gang war is not necessarily an emergency situation that would require a Justice League. It's corruption stretching decades starting before Bruce Wayne's birth (shout out to the Court of Owls) until now with many icons rising and falling to power. It would require the expertise of a Batman to unpack the system.

One thing though, I think this is basically the plan for "Gotham" the show. Nevermind lol

Yeah it's a Gotham-specific problem that can't be easily fixed by outsiders. And it really would give a chance for multiple villains to feature without needing an outright focus. They're just a backdrop of what Gotham is now like. I don't want Batman films to be trilogies that feature one or 2 lead villains before rebooting every time as we're going to get the same guys over and over with at least one whole film dedicated just to Joker.

 

[Mysteryman]

I think INC's post made me legitimately angry.

If that comment makes you mad ,
I would avoid watching The Flash.
The show is slowly week after week building The Rogue Gallery.
While over on Gotham,
A lot of the villains cannot show up yet because they would be too young in the shows current timeline.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

r u talkin ****? 1v1 me on cod, bruh!

you better check yourself before you shrek yourself

 

[KillerWolf]

Were young kids really the target demo for TDKReturns DC animated film though?

Probably not, but it depends on what you think of when you say young kids? And they'll end up watching it anyway, which I'm sure they already knew when they made the movie.

Burton's Batman wasn't really for children, but we were all watching it as kids. You know how it is, "it's the comic book movie, so it must be for kids" (hell, I've seen people take very small children to watch "Harry Potter and the Order of Phoenix". I believe they were terrified for most of the time, but that's the fault of that blind assumption without checking first by parents. In their defense it was supposedly a children's book). Anyway, I was far from traumatized by Burtons Batman, but it wasn't really a movie for small children.

When they tried to make a Batman that is more children-friendly with Joel Schumacher, we all know what happened.
What I'm trying to say is, Batman isn't really a children-friendly character and it's the same "it's a comic book so it must be for kids" approach that sometimes limits the characters and stories from that mythos to be true to source.

The way I see it, rating Batman movie with "R" finally sends a message that it's not for small children. Snyder explicitly said that was the reason behind making "Watchmen" "R" rated.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I don't see a reason to make an R rated batman. Most, if not all, of my favorite Batman comics have nothing in them that would require an R rating.

Also, I think you're selling children short. Batman isn't for kids? Of course he is! BTAS, arguably one of the most lauded and most iconic Batman adaptations appealed to children and adults. Could you make an R rated Batman film? Sure. But it's by no means needed to be true to the spirit of the character.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I don't see a reason to make an R rated batman. Most, if not all, of my favorite Batman comics have nothing in them that would require an R rating.

Also, I think you're selling children short. Batman isn't for kids? Of course he is! BTAS, arguably one of the most lauded and most iconic Batman adaptations appealed to children and adults. Could you make an R rated Batman film? Sure. But it's by no means needed to be true to the spirit of the character.

I think either extreme misses the appeal these characters have always had since they first premiered and became part of the pop culture of the US and now the world. Back in the day, comic books were indeed an all ages entertainment. Then the post war era made them shift to being seen as for the very young only. Slowly that changed to again being more all ages, with emphasis now on being perhaps more sophisticated than material should be for say, the average 11 year old, but not so adult as to be inappropriate for someone younger either. I think it's a hard sweet spot to hit.

 

[KillerWolf]

I don't see a reason to make an R rated batman. Most, if not all, of my favorite Batman comics have nothing in them that would require an R rating.

Also, I think you're selling children short. Batman isn't for kids? Of course he is! BTAS, arguably one of the most lauded and most iconic Batman adaptations appealed to children and adults. Could you make an R rated Batman film? Sure. But it's by no means needed to be true to the spirit of the character.

No for Batman, but yes for some of the characters from Batman comics.

As much as I loved B:TAS (it was definitely my favorite cartoon), I don't want to watch that Joker in movie, which was fun and great, but mostly a comic relief character. I want him to be closer to the one from "Under the Red Hood".

And again, how to introduce Mad Hatter or Black Mask properly?

Maybe you're right about R-rating not being necessary, though... I'm not quite sure what exactly can pass as PG-13 and what makes the movie "R". "Under the Red Hood" was PG-13 after all. Though it was animated, on film it would be much more brutal.

 

[Mrs. Wayne]

No for Batman, but yes for some of the characters from Batman comics.

As much as I loved B:TAS (it was definitely my favorite cartoon), I don't want to watch that Joker in movie, which was fun and great, but mostly a comic relief character. I want him to be closer to the one from "Under the Red Hood".

And again, how to introduce Mad Hatter or Black Mask properly?

Maybe you're right about R-rating not being necessary, though... I'm not quite sure what exactly can pass as PG-13 and what makes the movie "R". "Under the Red Hood" was PG-13 after all. Though it was animated, on film it would be much more brutal.

Oh yea...And there have been some Batman comics that I have thought would have to be rated R if they were adapted into a live action film.

 

[Mr. E Nygma]

I don't see a reason to make an R rated batman. Most, if not all, of my favorite Batman comics have nothing in them that would require an R rating.

Also, I think you're selling children short. Batman isn't for kids? Of course he is! BTAS, arguably one of the most lauded and most iconic Batman adaptations appealed to children and adults. Could you make an R rated Batman film? Sure. But it's by no means needed to be true to the spirit of the character.

I completely agree with this. Batman and any other superhero really, is meant to appeal to children. Superheroes are a standard for which kids should aspire to. So, every time I hear someone quote Frank Millers "godd**n Batman" I cringe. Is that really the language we should be encouraging kids to use? Nope. And more recently, this concept of Joker that slices his face off is more grotesque and goes too far imo. Also, I know I sound like an old man lecturing, but I'm really a 27 yr old person that grew up with Batman TAS which perfectly walked the line of dark, meaningful and appropriate for kids.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

I completely agree with this. Batman and any other superhero really, is meant to appeal to children. Superheroes are a standard for which kids should aspire to. So, every time I hear someone quote Frank Millers "godd**n Batman" I cringe. Is that really the language we should be encouraging kids to use? Nope. And more recently, this concept of Joker that slices his face off is more grotesque and goes too far imo. Also, I know I sound like an old man lecturing, but I'm really a 27 yr old person that grew up with Batman TAS which perfectly walked the line of dark, meaningful and appropriate for kids.

That's considered PG compared to what most kids use nowadays.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I completely agree with this. Batman and any other superhero really, is meant to appeal to children. Superheroes are a standard for which kids should aspire to. So, every time I hear someone quote Frank Millers "godd**n Batman" I cringe. Is that really the language we should be encouraging kids to use? Nope. And more recently, this concept of Joker that slices his face off is more grotesque and goes too far imo. Also, I know I sound like an old man lecturing, but I'm really a 27 yr old person that grew up with Batman TAS which perfectly walked the line of dark, meaningful and appropriate for kids.

Well, to be honest it's a balancing act. I for one am ten years older than you and I greatly appreciated the way comics back in the day did have elements that most parents might find risque. That said, a lot is in the eye of the beholder and these things can go too far for my tastes as well.

 

[Bathead]

Yes, I think Freeze should be the next Bat villain to be used again. Joker can wait.

Ya gotta love all these people complaining about Joker being overused in the movies but seem have no problem with Luthor who's had way more live action appearances than Joker.

 

[Mr. E Nygma]

That's considered PG compared to what most kids use nowadays.

Which is exactly my point. If kids are already using language worse than this, should comic book writers be further enabling that kind of foul language? I'm only thinking long term here. If I have a son/daughter that's into Batman and I hear them say "I'm the Godd*mn Batman", then they'll grow up with a character radically different from what I knew, and that's just sad.

I'm generally into these pg-13 animated DC films coming out, but Justice League: War was the worst offender so far. The dialogue and crude language used seemed like it was only there to serve the purpose of the higher rating and was completely unnecessary. I watched the first 20 minutes and turned it off. Redbox, give me back my $1.20....

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Ya gotta love all these people complaining about Joker being overused in the movies but seem have no problem with Luthor who's had way more live action appearances than Joker.

Mind you I don't want to see The Joker right now but part of the complaining about the Joker is the cult of Nolan-Ledger Joker not wanting to accept another interpretation of the character in live action.

Yes I want to see other villains before the Joker reappears in live action but The Joker should in fact reappear in live action in the future. I'm not going to budge one inch on that.

 

[KillerWolf]

Ya gotta love all these people complaining about Joker being overused in the movies but seem have no problem with Luthor who's had way more live action appearances than Joker.

I'll answer to you this way: I never watched anything Superman related prior to MOS and have watched all Batman movies, animated movies and series and have played Arkham Asylum, Arkham City and Arkham Origins.

Mind you I don't want to see The Joker right now but part of the complaining about the Joker is the cult of Nolan-Ledger Joker not wanting to accept another interpretation of the character in live action.

Yes I want to see other villains before the Joker reappears in live action but The Joker should in fact reappear in live action in the future. I'm not going to budge one inch on that.

Far from it. Or at least don't include me in this lot, please.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I'm not including you. The people who have that bias know who they are.

You must admit though Lex Luthor is more overused than The Joker though. Joker had one appearance in 1989 amd another in 2008 and Lex Luthor was in three Superman movies and 5000 episodes of Smallville and the vast majority are not saying that he is overused.

 

[Iceman]

I think it's a common thing with a lot of superhero films, overexposure of their primary villain at the expense of their rogues gallery. After the current versions of Eisenberg and Fassbender are played out I'd like a good break for Joker, Luthor & Magneto on film. It'll also make their eventual comebacks all the better.

 

[RadioSha]

Yeah it's a Gotham-specific problem that can't be easily fixed by outsiders. And it really would give a chance for multiple villains to feature without needing an outright focus. They're just a backdrop of what Gotham is now like. I don't want Batman films to be trilogies that feature one or 2 lead villains before rebooting every time as we're going to get the same guys over and over with at least one whole film dedicated just to Joker.

Yeah. As much as I like how character-driven TDKT was, I would like a trilogy revolving around a well-crafted detective plot- A crime epic derivative similar in structure as the LOTR, or the Godfather, or a compressed version of the Harry Potter franchise.

 

[KillerWolf]

I'm not including you. The people who have that bias know who they are.

My apologies then.

I think it's a common thing with a lot of superhero films, overexposure of their primary villain at the expense of their rogues gallery. After the current versions of Eisenberg and Fassbender are played out I'd like a good break for Joker, Luthor & Magneto on film. It'll also make their eventual comebacks all the better.

Well said.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

The X-Men film series has been hindered by the Magneto obsession. Magneto should not have appeared in every film and did his same old double cross thing. It's like goddamn groundhogs day with that series.

 

[Iceman]

Yeah. As much as I like how character-driven TDKT was, I would like a trilogy revolving around a well-crafted detective plot- A crime epic derivative similar in structure as the LOTR, or the Godfather, or a compressed version of the Harry Potter franchise.

Godfather style 5 families would be great including Two Face, Penguin, and Black Mask as bosses. Even if they don't want to do it right now (can't see Affleck wanting to do 3 solos), as it would be external to everything else in the DCCU I'd like it to be a backdrop for Gotham whenever we visit there in BvS or JL. Maybe the TV show will do it like you suggested.

 

[KillerWolf]

The X-Men film series has been hindered by the Magneto obsession. Magneto should not have appeared in every film.

Well, when one is played by Ian McKellen it can be forgiven. And what to be said about Wolverine?

Though he was used way too often in the comics too.

 

[John Locke]

Ya gotta love all these people complaining about Joker being overused in the movies but seem have no problem with Luthor who's had way more live action appearances than Joker.

We've had real estate Lex not scientist Lex. The Lex we now know and love isn't overused.