BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion - - - Part 167

[Zur-en-Arrh]

what's the harry pooter explanation? aren't they both owned by wb? just stick that in there, and open up the chance for a cross over from hogwarts as well

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

what's the harry pooter explanation? aren't they both owned by wb? just stick that in there, and open up the chance for a cross over from hogwarts as well

Oh hell no,

 

[Black Narcissus]

Just cast Ellen Page to be a part of every DCU and she can ask the questions.

Ellen- Why did you break his leg?! Batman- He is young, he will live.

Ellen- Why is your lasso glowing when it's around that guy's neck? WW- It affects electro-chemical synapses in the brain and instantly makes the wearer unable to lie.

Ellen- Don't lose yourself!

Trinity- We won't!

 

[roach]

Ghostbuster still took place in new York and not the distant planet LV-223.

Mutants, Aliens and superhero are unbelievable enough. Adding magic is just one step to far for some of us. I'm sure they will still be great movies, and we'll see some really cool visuals. I'm just excited we are in an age where comic book movies are everywhere. We are arguing the merit of magic in comic book movies! It's awesome! Instead of bickering about suits, villains and actors we get to discuss whether or not the universe is large enough to contain magic! I'm pumped we got to this point!

I just dont see it as that far away. The magic component to WW is what further separates her from the other members of the trinity.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

I just dont see it as that far away. The magic component to WW is what further separates her from the other members of the trinity.

I'm not of fan of Wonder Woman in the first place.

That being said I'm really looking forward it to seeing how this all shapes out.

 

[Jekecy]

There are about as many livable planets as grains of sand. And just a general rule of science is that if it happened once, it'll happen again. It's not at all unlikely that there is humanoid life in the universe that may have different talents and abilities than us. With the exact same specs as Superman? No... but I don't think that's needed to show how Superman is a far leap away from children's stories come to life.

Greek Gods are fiction. Complete and total fabrications that don't even have a sliver of believability to them. The comparison is worlds apart.

Maybe you’d like to explain to the class why a fictional humanoid god with superpowers and whose stories are conveyed in the written and visual medium, is insurmountably different than… other fictional humanoid gods with superpowers and whose stories were told within the same conventional storytelling spaces.

 

[roach]

There are about as many livable planets as grains of sand. And just a general rule of science is that if it happened once, it'll happen again. It's not at all unlikely that there is humanoid life in the universe that may have different talents and abilities than us. With the exact same specs as Superman? No... but I don't think that's needed to show how Superman is a far leap away from children's stories come to life.

Greek Gods are fiction. Complete and total fabrications that don't even have a sliver of believability to them. The comparison is worlds apart.

You are using science theory as science fact...we dont know how many livable planets are out there. People think they are out there but we just dont know...and as for the it can happen once it can happen again...only one planet in our solar system houses intelligent life.

 

[roach]

Maybe you’d like to explain to the class why a fictional humanoid god with superpowers and whose stories are conveyed in the written and visual medium, is insurmountably different than… other fictional humanoid gods with superpowers and whose stories were told within the same conventional storytelling spaces.

fictional superbeing based in science = believable
fictional superbeing based in magic = unbelievable

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

fictional superbeing based in science = believable
fictional superbeing based in magic = unbelievable

I think more people find both unbelievable but adding one extra layer is one too many for some. just for some.

 

[MaceB]

Maybe you’d like to explain to the class why a fictional humanoid god with superpowers and whose stories are conveyed in the written and visual medium, is insurmountably different than… other fictional humanoid gods with superpowers and whose stories were told within the same conventional storytelling spaces.

...I just did.

 

[Jekecy]

fictional superbeing based in science = believable
fictional superbeing based in magic = unbelievable

But that's the thing. Supes isn't based off science. It's fringe science hypotheses at best.

 

[Jekecy]

...I just did.

No, you essentially just said "this is that" without anything which could be backed up by fact. Imagining something "could" (and that's a real stretch) happen is not an explanation.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

But that's the thing. Supes isn't based off science. It's fringe science hypotheses at best.

Superman is utterly unbelievable but at least they give him the veneer of "science". just a little foot hold for people to stand on.

 

[MaceB]

But that's the thing. Supes isn't based off science. It's fringe science hypotheses at best.

Look, you've got the answer to your question. If you want to fight why certain people feel that way, good luck. I'm not even against magic... or magic being shown as science. I'm just saying that I hope they provide an explanation, whatever that might be...because it needs one.

 

[Black Narcissus]

George Miller described the trinity as Gods.

I dig that.

 

[MaceB]

No, you essentially just said "this is that" without anything which could be backed up by fact. Imagining something "could" (and that's a real stretch) happen is not an explanation.

That's what we're talking about here... degrees of believability. There's good reason why an meta human alien is far far more likely than hermes being real and gifting mortals with the power of speed from his shoes. There's a degree of separation there, and equating the two is too simplistic IMO.

 

[roach]

But that's the thing. Supes isn't based off science. It's fringe science hypotheses at best.

its all a bunch of nonsense mumbo jumbo...it's just the minute someone says magic it becomes super unbelieveable. There is no superhero with a 100% plausible origin behind it. I just find it interesting that people can buy into an alien race of beings on another planet that look like us and have the ability to have powers when they come to Earth...but not a warrior woman who is the daughter of a once worshipped deity.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Look, you've got the answer to your question. If you want to fight why certain people feel that way, good luck. I'm not even against magic... or magic being shown as science. I'm just saying that I hope they provide an explanation, whatever that might be...because it needs one.

I'm glad I won't be pondering this question through out the film. Heh.

I'm good either way.

 

[Luigi Vercotti]

This is a fun conversation. Maybe instead of having a throwaway line or two of exposition, let's keep it grounded and treat magic the same way that we're treating it here. Some people will accept things as magic, some won't. Perhaps Lex and/or Cadmus would capture someone with magic powers or some artifact, and try to figure out exactly how they work and fail miserably. If Brainiac or Mxyzptlk show up, it could be revealed that these powers that we don't understand are extra dimensional or some such thing. The magic people will be happy and the science people will be happy, and it's still basically magic as far as we're concerned.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

its all a bunch of nonsense mumbo jumbo...it's just the minute someone says magic it becomes super unbelieveable. There is no superhero with a 100% plausible origin behind it. I just find it interesting that people can buy into an alien race of beings on another planet that look like us and have the ability to have powers when they come to Earth...but not a warrior woman who is the daughter of a once worshipped deity.

It's easier to buy an unbelievable story over an impossible one. And many people just find unexplained magic impossible.

To each their own, I suppose.

 

[roach]

Look, you've got the answer to your question. If you want to fight why certain people feel that way, good luck. I'm not even against magic... or magic being shown as science. I'm just saying that I hope they provide an explanation, whatever that might be...because it needs one.

I dont think you'll get one...not in BvS...I dont expect to get anything more than "Im the daughter of Zeus" or "I'm magic".
There just isnt a valid reason to go into an explanation for a side character. We'll get about as much an explantion for WW's magic as we got for BW martial arts ability in IM2.

 

[Enriquespy]

thing is, Greek gods are probably based off a collection of real peopletrough the atiquity of egeian culture, and then became the subject of increasingly more modified and fantastical versions of their story.

 

[Jekecy]

Superman is utterly unbelievable but at least they give him the veneer of "science". just a little foot hold for people to stand on.

I'm aware of that, but those very same stretches of scifi babble can be applied to Greek myths as well. Only difference is the latter has been established as a bygone period of magical heroes, so no one wants to mess with and redefine their existence.

Consider the roots of these characters and what they were in the beginning. The delineation between the two is only marked by time period. There's a reason why so many have considered superheroes to be the "new Greek gods".

That's what we're talking about here... degrees of believability. There's good reason why an meta human alien is far far more likely than hermes being real and gifting mortals with the power of speed from his shoes. There's a degree of separation there, and equating the two is too simplistic IMO.

The separation is there because the writers have chosen to try and justify their imaginations via convoluted science talk and reliance on the unknown.

You cannot possibly explain how Supes' ability to fire red beams from his eyes, or move at supersonic speed, is any more realistic than the magic found in Greek myths. Or can you?

People have accepted Zeus and his many companions are fake. It's starting to sound like people are waiting around hoping someone like Supes shows up.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

I dont think you'll get one...not in BvS...I dont expect to get anything more than "Im the daughter of Zeus" or "I'm magic".
There just isnt a valid reason to go into an explanation for a side character. We'll get about as much an explantion for WW's magic as we got for BW martial arts ability in IM2.

Martial arts are easier for audience to grasp than "I'm the daughter of Zeus". Besides we don't know how important Wonder Woman will be in BvS.

 

[Enriquespy]

"I'm the daughter of Zeus".

Is not that hard to grasp.