All Things DCEU News, Discussion, and Speculation

[Loki882]

Yeah, I'm fully anticipating that they're going to go with Black Adam's more modern incarnations for the movies. Modern Adam isn't a full-blown supervillain these days. He's more morally complex and he often does have fairly good intentions.

I like to say that Adam isn't really a villain at all. He's a hero whose definition of "justice" just happens to be about 5000 years out of date. In his time, he would've been viewed as very heroic by many. It's just that his particular brand of heroism doesn't really "work" in this day and age.

So, yeah, if they go that route, it'll be very easy to do a spinoff movie for him. He's a great character and exploring his moral complexity would be very fun for a movie.

Hope they bring in Isis for his movie as well. Although, they MAY want to change up her name a bit, since we don't want her associated with a certain real-world terrorist organization.

 

[Godzillasaurus]

WB is biting off more than they can chew...

They are prioritizing villain spinoffs over the likes of MoS 2 and The Batman. With the already unstable track record of the DCEU thus far, why would they jump the gun and go all-out with characters that nobody recognizes first? Makes no sense...

I don't see this ending well

 

[djsunyc]

all superman had to do was use his superspeed to get behind batman, grab and put his arms around him and then tell him the deal. instead he picks him up and throws him from the sky to the top of a building - WTF? how did he know that wasn't going to kill him?

 

[djsunyc]

WB is biting off more than they can chew...

They are prioritizing villain spinoffs over the likes of MoS 2 and The Batman. With the already unstable track record of the DCEU thus far, why would they jump the gun and go all-out with characters that nobody recognizes first? Makes no sense...

I don't see this ending well

b/c they are cashing in as fast as possible on the super hero money machine. instead of building a universe and quality movies, they are casting big names and trying to get as much money as possible.

 

[Godzillasaurus]

Especially with The Rock in there... Don't get me wrong, he has plenty of acting talent, but his movies aren't exactly known to be particularly great. And if they release Black Adam first, they are going to have to fast-track pre-production AGAIN, even if Shazam was delayed a full year

 

[NotNickFury]

WB is biting off more than they can chew...

They are prioritizing villain spinoffs over the likes of MoS 2 and The Batman. With the already unstable track record of the DCEU thus far, why would they jump the gun and go all-out with characters that nobody recognizes first? Makes no sense...

I don't see this ending well

If done well, it could work. Before 2012, I'd wager few in the general public outside of comic readers knew much, if at all, about the character or rogues gallery of Iron Man, Captain America, or Thor.

I'd argue that more were familiar with the Hulk before those three just because of the TV show and the prior Ang Lee film, so the MCU could've started with him since he was more recognizable, but they went with Iron Man instead and it worked.

 

[TheVileOne]

Why is Black Adam getting a movie? It's Black Adam. I know it's the Rock, but why not just turn the Rock into Shazam if that's what you want?

I'm not sure what the angle is here. Black Adam is the villain for Shazam. What's the end goal if you go this route?

I didn't think DCEU was completely doomed before, but I'm definitely starting to lean that way now.

 

[Boy Scout]

Wouldn't surprise me if their plan now is, "Make these movies, see who's popular, and then make them cross over. Done."

 

[2kt09]

Name of the game: villain spinoffs as people have rightly acknowledged
That's how they plan to set themselves apart from every other universe while doing what is popular because antihero cbm's made considerable bank

 

[JtheDreamer]

Name of the game: villain spinoffs as people have rightly acknowledged
That's how they plan to set themselves apart from every other universe while doing what is popular because antihero cbm's made considerable bank

They're effectively neutering their villains then - as inevitably they need to face off with their long time nemesis, so you build support for them beforehand with the audience?

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. They're getting a bit carried away with a gimmick.

 

[2kt09]

They're effectively neutering their villains then - as inevitably they need to face off with their long time nemesis, so you build support for them beforehand with the audience.

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. They're getting a bit carried away with a gimmick.

Assuming Black Adam solo comes first...I just realized that'd be like another go at Batman's arc in BvS if he's God of War Kratos by the end of that flick, only he doesn't become a hero when Shazam beats the snot out of him

The rest of them being developed obviously wouldn't quite be taking on their heroes as main baddies. They do what they gotta do and the audience should be able to get that since they're so small fry.
The Joker is the only one that would be a real issue in turning into an anti-villain.

 

[TheVileOne]

Assuming Black Adam solo comes first...I just realized that'd be like another go at Batman's arc in BvS if he's God of War Kratos by the end of that flick, only he doesn't become a hero when Shazam beats the snot out of him

The rest of them being developed obviously wouldn't quite be taking on their heroes as main baddies. They do what they gotta do and the audience should be able to get that since they're so small fry.
The Joker is the only one that would be a real issue in turning into an anti-villain.

That makes no sense.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Black Adam isn't a straight up villain. Best comparison that comes to mind right now is Conan the Barbarian. He ****s **** up, deposes a tyrant or two, becomes a Pharoah.... so on and so forth.

You throw that type of dude into the 21st century and he's suddenly a "villain".

Black Adam could be the hero of his own film set in Ancient Egypt. Magic is established. He frees himself and his fellow slaves with the power of the Khemetian Gods. And he's crowned Pharoah. Things happen. He breaks bad and The Wizard put him to sleep. He wakes up millenia later. Sees the world as messed up and chaotic and decides to conquer it to bring order. The Wizard can't trust an adult with the power of the Gods so he gives it to Billy. Billy kicks Teth's ass who is ashamed that kid was merciful and had honor than he did. He goes back to Kahndaq to think about what to do and decides to kill all the terrorists, criminals, and rebel in his country. Kahndaq becomes a utopia under his rule, his citizens love him, but the flip side of that is that it's also a dictatorship. Then his wif gets assassinated, probably because Waller is trying to make a play, and Adam goes on a rampage.

That's three movies right there, one of which doubles as a Shazam! movie. Throw in a CK cameo in Shazam! and have Billy come back for a sequel where he and Adam team up and we have a decent set of films.

 

[Victarion]

I just hope the DCEU's magical side embraces the aesthetic of the discarded Enchantress/Incubus and "New God" concepts from Suicide Squad. There's some nice, bizarre visuals there.

Suicide Squad kind of started Joker along the path to anti-villainy. He rescued the damsel from the villain (Waller). Along the way he shot up a lab, kidnapped the researcher's wife and did God knows what to her afterward, kidnapped the researcher...so all still villainous, but working against someone much nastier than him imo.

*

Deathstroke - I'd like to see his movie focus around the background we saw in Marv Wolfman's Deathstroke the Terminator graphic novel. Its a good way to distinguish him from Deadshot for the GA.

 

[Loki882]

Why is Ant Man getting his own movie, he's Ant Man.

Why is Dr. Strange getting his own movie, he's Dr. Strange.

Why is Thor getting his own movie, he's Thor.

Etc.

The fact that Black Adam is Black Adam doesn't mean that a movie about him cannot be good.

 

[Jekecy]

Wouldn't surprise me if their plan now is, "Make these movies, see who's popular, and then make them cross over. Done."

With all the time Johnson has been cast and the constant teases of Shazam over the years, this really does feel like a last-minute decision which is harping off Johnson's surge in Hollywood. That doesn't bode well for the supposed grand cinematic timeline which was mapped out from the on-set.

I'm starting to feel the whole "let's start experimenting with names and see what sticks". Their schedule shuffling doesn't inspire much confidence.

We'll see. Maybe this is a Hail Mary that works out. Or one of the best/worst examples of a studio not seeing the writings on the wall.

 

[Godzillasaurus]

Why is Black Adam getting a movie? It's Black Adam. I know it's the Rock, but why not just turn the Rock into Shazam if that's what you want?

I'm not sure what the angle is here. Black Adam is the villain for Shazam. What's the end goal if you go this route?

I didn't think DCEU was completely doomed before, but I'm definitely starting to lean that way now.

The casting was always awkward. WB literally cast the guy as the villain, what, 4 years before intended release? Even casting the lead hero that early is nearly unheard of, let alone the damn villain.

I'm having troubling thoughts about this franchise, too. At least we'll definitely get to see Justice League

 

[Xrated48]

Why is Ant Man getting his own movie, he's Ant Man.

Why is Dr. Strange getting his own movie, he's Dr. Strange.

Why is Thor getting his own movie, he's Thor.

Etc.

The fact that Black Adam is Black Adam doesn't mean that a movie about him cannot be good.

Yeah but Marvel did a better job building there Universe up with there characters and because of that they were able to take more risks. While Warner Brothers has hard time making Superman or Batman even good on the big screen. Why take the risk with a villain solo film when they should be focusing on making there heroes the big focus first to development the universe.

 

[MbJ]

Why is Black Adam getting a movie? It's Black Adam. I know it's the Rock, but why not just turn the Rock into Shazam if that's what you want?

Is Black Adam gonna be any worse than Cavill's Superman? At least Black Adam is supposed to smash stuff and look unhappy.

 

[Skrilla31]

It's not just anybody mentioning Martha in any ordinary context, though. It's someone he sees as a huge threat. You're also being dismissive of what PTSD can do to a person as well as the additional context of that scene that shows that, although enraged, he holds off on plunging the spear into Superman and later Lois, and when he absorbs more than just the name, but also the dilemma in front of him -- he can choose to be the hero or the villain by choosing to save Martha, save a son's mother, a mother's son, and someone's beloved -- he is able to step back and regroup.

You're giving an awful lot of credit to a director who can't even speak in coherent sentences.

As well as a writer who, by his own admission, claimed that BVS proved to be his greatest intellectual challenge ever and couldn't pen a script about guys in capes without first brushing up on his ancient greek mythology.

 

[The Guard]

Why is Black Adam getting a movie? It's Black Adam. I know it's the Rock, but why not just turn the Rock into Shazam if that's what you want?

I'm not sure what the angle is here. Black Adam is the villain for Shazam. What's the end goal if you go this route?

I didn't think DCEU was completely doomed before, but I'm definitely starting to lean that way now.

A separate franchise for the Shazam family.

I don't see why this is such a big deal.

Black Adam is a great character in his own rite, and odds are good he won't be the only DCU element in his film.

 

[The Guard]

So he knows how unhinged Batman is? He knows that he's so far gone that he won't listen to reason?

No, he knows Batman is attacking him and does not appear to be listening to reason. He doesn't need to know Batman is "unhinged" to realize Batman isn't interested in talking.

If that's the case, why bother trying to explain anything? Why not immediately put him down? Why waste time trying to explain when he could either kill or subdue Batman without a second thought?

He doesn't bother to explain anything. After Batman attacks him, Superman immediately seeks to establish dominance and put a stop to the fight.

Um...no. What those traps demonstrate is that Batman sees Superman as an adversary and is prepared to fight him. They reveal little to nothing about his mentally/emotionally damaged state.

Your'e disagreeing that Batman, in ignoring Superman's attempts to reason and choosing to attack is not in fact probably not going to listen to reason and attack instead?

The traps don't indicate that Batman is planning to attack Superman?

The fact that they were ridiculously ineffectual proves that Superman could've stopped the fight at any time, held Batman down, and tried to explain the situation.

1. That would have been kind of boring compared to a fight.

2. Batman has Kryptonite.

In the real world, Batman versus Superman is a newborn bunny versus an Olympic level athlete wearing steel-toed boots. And that's being generous.

That has nothing to do with my point that you quoted. We're talking about why he didn't talk to him, not saying he couldn't have.

Superman was in full control of the fight until he was exposed to Krypfonite. He had plenty of time to actually try and explain what was going on.

I'm sorry that the movie did not have characters do the easy thing and avoid the drama, conflict and visuals of a fight.

The comics doing stupid **** worthy of criticism doesn't excuse the movie from doing stupid **** worthy of criticism. Not that I'm not certain that a lot of those comics handled it a LOT better, but stilly

I didn't say it excuses anything. But the general appeal when it comes to Superman reasoning with people is "But in the comics Superman does this or that".

 

[TheVileOne]

Is Black Adam gonna be any worse than Cavill's Superman? At least Black Adam is supposed to smash stuff and look unhappy.

Yes.

 

[The Guard]

You say Batman "clearly isn't listening"? That actually isn't so clear, as Superman makes only one brief attempt to actually explain the situation before he's cut off, and he responds by silently throwing Batman around like a rag doll and punching him through walls for no reason.

Question...

After Superman makes that one brief attempt...does Batman try to talk, or does he watch, smiling, as his traps are sprung?

Does Batman make any attempt to respond to Superman's earlier appeal, or to hear him out after the traps are sprung?

In what way is it not made clear that Batman probably isn't going to respond to reason within the first few moments of the conflict?

Batman is armored for combat. He is raging. He has attacked twice. He will not stand down.

Superman is not pummelling Batman for no reason. He is trying to get Batman to stay down and stop attacking him, because it is wasting time. He says as much after he throws Batman onto the signal.

You say the whole conflict revolves around two men's failure to communicate? There's no reason for Superman to not effectively communicate in this scenario, other than "we need them to fight".

Except that he tried to communicate, and it failed.

There is nothing to reasonably suggest, when your attempt to resolve matters peacefully were met with violent reprisal, that the other person will suddenly be willing to listen to reason until they are no longer a threat.

Time is of the essence, and being a superstrong being, he thinks he can force Batman to stand down through sheer use of power. These two men also underestimate each other during the fight.

Watch the first part before Batman pulls out the kryptonite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58KXLPE7M_s&t=135s

I have.

Superman makes an emotional appeal. Batman doesn't listen and attacks.

Superman tries to use force to get Batman to stand down, progressively using more and more power.

Superman tore through the traps like paper. As far as he knew he wasn't in any danger or fighting for his life. He could have easily made another attempt to actually explain what was going on, but he chose to further antagonize the person he needs to talk to. His mother will be dead soon, yet the film-makers chose to show this character silently beating the one guy he needs help from instead of any actual, satisfying attempt to talk to him. It's a flimsy, contrived excuse to get to the titular fight, and your explanation does not justify the execution of this concept.

I'm sorry that the stressed out, angry Superman didnt try reasoning with the heavily armored man who just attacked him with sonic device and machine guns...

Most reasons for two parties fighting aren't terribly complex, I don't find this one any less so. Emotion is a powerful thing.

I'm not sure what "equation" you are looking for, but I can promise you that one brief attempt followed by punchy punch punch does not fit within those parameters.

Yet in other cinematic showdowns, there is often not even the brief attempt to reason. Or there is a single attempt. This also occurs in real life scenarios.

But superheroes have to act like superheroes all the time, so one attempt here is not enough because...well, because.

I suspect what lies at the heart of most people's problems with this sequence is not some inherent "flaw" in how fights must be written within a screenplay, but in the fact that people feel "Superman doesn't act like this".

Again, I really hope you can recognize this as it's fairly obvious why this scene doesn't sit well with people, and it's not because of the reasons you have listed.

Yes, I recognize why it doesn't sit well, but it's also not supposed to sit well. It's meant to be a very intense, troubling sequence with both men in peril and not thinking clearly.

But pretending that this fight is somehow less "justified" within the screenplay than many other screen conflicts and scuffles? Eh, not buying it. Is it the best development to a fight ever? No. It's also not the worst.

Within the context of the film, these men are obviously wrong to fight. Batman recognizes the massive error in judgement after the fight is over. You are not supposed to like the decisions they made that led to them fighting or the fact that they fought. They are, after all, supposed to be heroes, which is the end result of the film. Their realization that they should work together, and Batman's recognition that he has gone way, way too far.

 

[UltimatePyro9]

Sigh. Really? A Black Adam movie! We haven't even got a Shazam movie and the WB is already announcing a Black Adam movie? Why?

WB is biting off more than they can chew...

They are prioritizing villain spinoffs over the likes of MoS 2 and The Batman. With the already unstable track record of the DCEU thus far, why would they jump the gun and go all-out with characters that nobody recognizes first? Makes no sense...

I don't see this ending well

I agree. There's no reason to produce a Black Adam movie. None.

The WB is really pushing for their "Extended Universe" are they?