All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - Part 83

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

I will say the tornado scene didn't have a patch on Jonathan Kent's death in 1978's Superman.

 

[Midnight Black]

Oh and I really enjoyed this film...a lot...as did my family.

I'll admit the unconventional non-linear pacing threw me off a bit. I don't mind going back and forth between flashbacks and the present, but the beginning of the film threw me for a min.

Overall I loved the action. That's how you do super hero action. The story was good and made sense. I could argue that there were some questionable areas, but I'm sure they will be answered on second viewing.

I like the changes to Krypton, but had wished there was more shown of Krypton and that parts of the world looked more like a city rather than the desert.

Can't wait for a sequel.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

So I have a few questions....

1. How did everyone feel about the changes to Supes' origins specifically planet Krypton's destruction and Jor-El?

Did not bother me. Jor-El and Zod have always been at odds in all continuities. Zod's murder of Jor-El gave him a sense of not just true menace and the fact that it made it personal to Kal-El.

Was there a radical change to Krypton's destruction?

2. How did everyone feel about the artificial births that were taking place on Krypton?

Again, not a problem, taken from the 1986-2002 continuity.

3. Did anyone feel sorry for Zod after he explained his being and his reasoning for doing what he did? And why?

Sorry? No, but I understood. For me that's better, for example, I understood Joker's actions in The Dark Knight, but I never felt sorry. I empathised with Zod, not sympathised.

4. I was still a little confused or rather left wanting by the explanation of why Clark's parents did not depart Krypton with him? What was Jor-El's explanation? Was it just that they couldn't cause they were bound to Krypton? Do you feel that was an adequate explanation or just a "because we couldn't cause we really don't have an answer and this is just part of the mythos the audience knows."

They were bound to the decadence of what Krypton became, just like Zod, they did not deserve to be the pioneers of a New Krypton, however Kal-El could be given that chance, he was not burdened by Krypton or the genetic ties. He was free to potentially forge a new path for Krypton.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I never worshipped the old films so they don't factor into my opinion. I think they are terribly aged relics and nothing more.

 

[Sharkboy]

It's not about Clark being able to help, that's not really what the scene was trying to convey. At this point in Clark's life he's probably well aware of how truly important keeping his secret is, or at least how important it is to his father. It works in context of what it's trying to say.

"My father believed that if the world found out who I really was, they’d reject me out of fear. He was convinced that the world wasn’t ready. "

The idea that Jonathan died in order to protect Clark's secret and therefore his life and future is the ultimate thing a father could do for his son, even if his son is superman, it's still his job to protect him, and it makes me quite emotional to think that minutes before Clark lashed out at him reminding him that he's not his father, and while Jonathan agreed...his actions certainly beg to differ. That's one hell of a statement to make.

Can critics tell me how heartless and shallow this film is again?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Hello.

You and your fancy hellos.

 

[Marvin]

I am really flabbergasted (love that word) that some of you are disliking or even disappointed in this film. People, this is the Superman movie that we have always wanted. I understand it is not perfect, issues with pacing, script isn't that strong etc but can you tell me any movie that is totally perfect? Their is nothing in this movie that screams rubbish or crap and certainly nothing in the film that suggests it shouldn't warrant a sequel.

The minute Nolan's name was attached and all the higher ups started gushing, this film was doomed to PISS PEOPLE OFF for stuff that probably just bothered them.

Back when Nolan was some indie chump that was going to save batman from mediocrity with non linear narrative and goyers patented genre before superhero approach to adaptation, the majority of fans were on board. It's a far different landscape now.

Still can't believe people think this movie is THAT much worse than the rest of the genere. A little perspective might be helpful down the road.

 

[Herolee10]

No. Zod was checking outpost.t He would of eventually came to Earth. With no Superman to stop him.

Well, if we were to go in a what if scenario, if Kal-el never made it to Earth, then Zod would have never gone to Earth imho and even if he did, I doubt that he would have destroyed as many people as he did since there’d be no reason to due to the fact that he wouldn’t have the thing needed to restart his people’s population.

 

[Showtime]

Hi.

U going tonight?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Maybe it's the way I was brought up. I never obeyed my mother blindly, so I don't really get that. I love her and trust her and have taken so much of her on, and we have a great close relationship.

But if she wanted me to do something that stupid and illogical that would result in her dying, i'd ignore the hell out of her wishes.

Because no secret is worth someone dying for.

God, even Smallville said that much, in 'Duplicity'.

And that is the point. It isn't Jonathan's secret. It is his son. The son they feared from the moment they had him the government was going to come and take and do whatever it is they do. You see how the military reacts when Zod shows up.

Superman is the "alien". Lois' civil rights don't even matter. They hold her up at gunpoint why exactly?

This not about Clark. It is not his decision. It is his father's.

 

[DKDetective]

The arrogance of Krypton. Love that they kept that aspect.

I'm fine with the arrogance. It is just that it didn't make much narrative sense for the insurrection to wind up so quickly. Krypton's government, as you mentioned, is supposed to be weak, short sighted, and arrogant. The surprise of Zod's coup should have crippled them. The film even implies as much when Jor-El takes the event as the sign that the end is nigh and Kal should be sent away with utmost haste. For the coup to end so quickly and easily undermined all of the aforementioned great ideas. For crying out loud, it was over in a few short hours. It would have made more sense for the coup to have been going for a long time and that such petty political troubles were part of what distracted Krypton from its underlying problems and for it to take such radical steps as tapping the planet's core and causing its ultimate destruction.

Also, the film never really resolved the whole thing with the codex or what exactly was Jor-El's purpose for putting it in Kal. Yes, he wanted to keep it from Zod and wanted Kal and Earth to start anew, but then why not just destroy it? I felt like it only happened so that Superman would have something Zod needed and give him a reason to track Kal down. Like TDKR, I feel like this movie is really lacking in narrative and thematic clarity. It has great ideas but never really figures out what it is doing with them.

 

[Showtime]

You and your fancy hellos.

It's like Superman hovering just above u. Want u all to know I am here.

 

[Travesty]

I just got out. I thought it was pretty good, but there were definitely some issues. The pacing and structure was a bit of a mix-up. I wasn't a fan of Lois, like I thought I was going to be, and Cavil's acting was a bit sketchy. He was fine when he was angry, but anytime he had a one-on-one scene with somebody, it just felt off.

The film is gorgeous, though. I also really enjoyed the action, and the Krypton scenes were amazing. There is a lot to love. Again, I liked it for the most part.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

U going tonight?

I saw it last night.

 

[Lily Adler]

Does Lois's wedding/engagement ring make a guest appearance in the film?

 

[GreenKToo]

The minute Nolan's name was attached and all the higher ups started gushing, this film was doomed to PISS PEOPLE OFF for stuff that probably just bothered them.

Back when Nolan was some indie chump that was going to save batman from mediocrity with non linear narrative and goyers patented genre before superhero approach to adaptation, the majority of fans were on board. It's a far different landscape now.

Still can't believe people think this movie is THAT much worse than the rest of the genere. A little perspective might be helpful down the road.

It's not. It's the superman film I have always wanted. Sure, some things could be better, but the good far outweighs the bad for me.
With that other film, the bad and the good was about 50/50 so I couldnt forgive it. This is more like 80/20 good.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well, if we were to go in a what if scenario, if Kal-el never made it to Earth, then Zod would have never gone to Earth imho and even if he did, I doubt that he would have destroyed as many people as he did since there’d be no reason to due to the fact that he wouldn’t have the thing needed to restart his people’s population.

Zod had females. He might loathe the idea, but last resorts are last resort. Every settlement was a tomb, not fit for terraforming. We know, because it didn't work. They endured looking for Kal-El.

With no Kal-El, eventually they find Earth. The place where they are Gods. The place that seemed fit for terraforming.

 

[Mjölnir]

Hence the pain of the scene. Do people think Clark didn't want to help? The scene is about a father protecting his son. It is just like Jor-El's scene at the start of the film.

I understand the message of the scene completely. I'm just saying that it's not strange for people to criticize it since I can certainly imagine my mother telling me to not risk myself if she was in danger, and I know I wouldn't care what she said since just as her I'm not putting my needs above my family.

It's perfectly possible for people to react like Clark did, I just can't imagine myself doing it.

 

[Dr Magneto Doom]

Why are people peed off that superman..... You know who? Didn't he do the same in superman II only difference is it wasn't as gruesome??? People make me laugh with their crap excuse to hate this film. To those who are worried, don't because it was much better than the very overrated batman begins and long and boring TDKR in my opinion. Only TDk is probably slightly better.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It's like Superman hovering just above u. Want u all to know I am here.

Hi Showtime. He's so nice.

 

[Andreth]

Does Lois's wedding/engagement ring make a guest appearance in the film?

Nope, but I think we only see her kitchen. I could be wrong.
I'll try to catch for more details when I watch it again. t:

 

[Showtime]

I saw it last night.

I am getting to old to catch up with these threads. Not C. Lee old but still.

 

[Tzigone]

No. Zod was checking outpost.t He would of eventually came to Earth. With no Superman to stop him.

I'm not sure - he only came because of the signal. Was Earth actually a former outpost? Can't recall. But even if it was, and Zod would have come, he would have checked it out, seen that Kal-El wasn't there, maybe scavenged from the old ship, and then left, continuing his search for the codex.

4. I was still a little confused or rather left wanting by the explanation of why Clark's parents did not depart Krypton with him? What was Jor-El's explanation? Was it just that they couldn't cause they were bound to Krypton? Do you feel that was an adequate explanation or just a "because we couldn't cause we really don't have an answer and this is just part of the mythos the audience knows."

He said they were part of the failed society - I guess because they were made to their roles, did not have the freedom to choose their own destiny, as he put it.

If there was one thing your father told you your whole life, and then asked you to do it, you should do it.

Disagree. You should do what you think is right - just because someone is your parent doesn't mean they are right about everything. I don't think Jonathan was right. And, as much as Clark loved him, he seems to have come to the same conclusion - or, at least, even if he thinks his father his right, he still can't help but risk his secret saving people. Lois brought up as much - he couldn't hide from her and do what he did, and he couldn't stop doing it. He trusted his father's judgement there, and it ended in tragedy. Then he trusts his own and risks his secret - and that did lead to him getting found out. Now we step in the phase 3 - saving openly and having a funny costume and new name to try and protect his secret, have it both ways.

BTW, did we see anyone at all taking pictures of Superman in this movie? Will any of the papers or media have photographs or video? Sure, eventually they will, but what about right now?

 

[Blake II]

I understand the message of the scene completely. I'm just saying that it's not strange for people to criticize it since I can certainly imagine my mother telling me to not risk myself if she was in danger, and I know I wouldn't care what she said since just as her I'm not putting my needs above my family.

It's perfectly possible for people to react like Clark did, I just can't imagine myself doing it.

But they should have had his step-father die in a more believable way instead of just standing there and then disappearing in the tornado. They should have had him on the floor telling Clark to not come save him and then show him being taken up by the tornado.

 

[Showtime]

Hi Showtime. He's so nice.

Showtime? I just think he's hot.