All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - - Part 91

[herolee10]

superman is a lame character if you think about it. without his powers he's completely helpless. unlike batman who coulda' picked his way outta those binds.

Right; superman is such a lame character that he's somehow managed to stay within the comics for the last 75 years, where his symbol is one of the most recognizable symbols on the planet, and where he's considered an cultural icon; yeah, very lame character indeed.

If he was so lame, then he wouldn't have garnered the success and attention that he has within history, regardless of his powers since there are quite a few heroes out there, both DC and Marvel, who have similar powers like his, and yet, none of them rival Superman when it comes to popularity and importance.

 

[The Sage]

Superman generally IS a pacifist, in the sense that he doesn't WANT to fight.
Superman also has a lot of plot devices that help him avoid killing (in comics).
Superman DOES live in a colorful world, but with darkness beneath the surface.
Superman tries to save everyone, but of course he can't.
HOWEVER, Superman knows that the main thing is to take out the threat/enemy so that even MORE people won't get hurt.

Hopefully, the sequels would show Superman trying to strike a balance between saving and fighting.

Correct me if I'm wrong about these points, comic fans

1) Normally true, but he is definitely willing to fight when necessary.
2) Again, normally the case but some stories have written him into a corner where killing was the only option to take, and in those instances when it was done, Superman was remorseful afterwards. Except for Death of Superman, since he died after the battle, so there was no moment to feel remorse.
3) True in some stories, but not in others. Depending on the tone or the writer, the world Superman lives in may seem dark and he defends the world regardless.
4) True
5) True

The sequel definitely needs to balance it out. I wouldn't mind if Superman does more saving than fighting. I've had my fill of him throwing punches. They'll also need to lighten the tone to make it more hopeful. Perhaps the tone can progress as the film goes on, showing the impact Superman has on the world.

 

[herolee10]

1) Normally true, but he is definitely willing to fight when necessary.
2) Again, normally the case but some stories have written him into a corner where killing was the only option to take, and in those instances when it was done, Superman was remorseful afterwards. Except for Death of Superman, since he died after the battle, so there was no moment to feel remorse.
3) True in some stories, but not in others. Depending on the tone or the writer, the world Superman lives in may seem dark and he defends the world regardless.
4) True
5) True

The sequel definitely needs to balance it out. I wouldn't mind if Superman does more saving than fighting. I've had my fill of him throwing punches. They'll also need to lighten the tone to make it more hopeful. Perhaps the tone can progress as the film goes on, showing the impact Superman has on the world.

I do remember reading a recent interview where Goyer mentioned that the sequel will most likely have the classic montage of showing Superman saving people now and that the reason why something like that wasn't included in MOS, especially at the end, was that they felt that the timing wasn't right due to the events that led to Superman to appearing to begin with, what with Zod's arrival and the first contact arc.

And he did mention on how he wanted to see Superman take on problems that were more earth/real world affiliated.

I do hope to see more of this come to fruition. That's why I'm an advocate of the idea that the villains for the sequel should be earth bound and not another alien for the time being.

 

[Zionite1]

Whilst im in support of the sequel having earthbound villains,I do hope the villains are just as powerful and just as much a physical threat as Zod and his goons.

 

[The Sage]

I do remember reading a recent interview where Goyer mentioned that the sequel will most likely have the classic montage of showing Superman saving people now and that the reason why something like that wasn't included in MOS, especially at the end, was that they felt that the timing wasn't right due to the events that led to Superman to appearing to begin with, what with Zod's arrival and the first contact arc.

And he did mention on how he wanted to see Superman take on problems that were more earth/real world affiliated.

I do hope to see more of this come to fruition. That's why I'm an advocate of the idea that the villains for the sequel should be earth bound and not another alien for the time being.

I hope that in his desire to see Superman take on more real world problems--hunger, war--that the questions left by Man of Steel don't get answered. Let's hope his ambition doesn't get the better of him.

If the new topics and old questions can all get addressed, then great.

 

[herolee10]

I hope that in his desire to see Superman take on more real world problems--hunger, war--that the questions left by Man of Steel don't get answered. Let's hope his ambition doesn't get the better of him.

If the new topics and old questions can all get addressed, then great.

Indeed; and I think MOS proves that Goyer needs to officially have a co-writer helping him with the screenplay as well. I mean, if what we heard was true in the past about how J. Nolan and some others had come in to unofficially do some touch ups (especially the third act of the film) then they need to get hired and really bring their A game to help with the new script.

 

[Smallville13]

I hope that in his desire to see Superman take on more real world problems--hunger, war--that the questions left by Man of Steel don't get answered. Let's hope his ambition doesn't get the better of him.

If the new topics and old questions can all get addressed, then great.

I think Superman tackling those larger issues are part of answering the questions of MOS. And it's going to set up his largest dilemma going forward; that he 'can't save everyone'. It's usually the death of Jonathan that is about that, but that was used to different purpose in MOS. In many ways him forced to kill Zod is him learning that not 'everyone can be saved' or in that case reconciled.

Indeed; and I think MOS proves that Goyer needs to officially have a co-writer helping him with the screenplay as well. I mean, if what we heard was true in the past about how J. Nolan and some others had come in to unofficially do some touch ups (especially the third act of the film) then they need to get hired and really bring their A game to help with the new script.

It all got cleared up during the press junkets that only Goyer and Snyder worked on the script. Nolan got a story credit though.

 

[Kryptonian Warrior]

Quick question.......They say that there is a reference to Cyborg/S.T.A.R. Labs in the movie. My question is, what part of the movie is it?

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

1) Normally true, but he is definitely willing to fight when necessary.
2) Again, normally the case but some stories have written him into a corner where killing was the only option to take, and in those instances when it was done, Superman was remorseful afterwards. Except for Death of Superman, since he died after the battle, so there was no moment to feel remorse.
3) True in some stories, but not in others. Depending on the tone or the writer, the world Superman lives in may seem dark and he defends the world regardless.
4) True
5) True

The sequel definitely needs to balance it out. I wouldn't mind if Superman does more saving than fighting. I've had my fill of him throwing punches. They'll also need to lighten the tone to make it more hopeful. Perhaps the tone can progress as the film goes on, showing the impact Superman has on the world.

I'd want the tone to be mostly warm and a bit lighthearted, but with an underlying seriousness do to the conflicts Supes faces. And I want it to end on a bittersweet note. Luthor will seem impossible to expose, but Superman will always be there to stop his plans.

And yes, I do want MOS2 to set up a Superman/Batman film. Snyder already established that Batman exists in his world. It would be a shame to not have one team-up film before the BIG team-up

 

[The Sage]

I'd want the tone to be mostly warm and a bit lighthearted, but with an underlying seriousness do to the conflicts Supes faces. And I want it to end on a bittersweet note. Luthor will seem impossible to expose, but Superman will always be there to stop his plans.

And yes, I do want MOS2 to set up a Superman/Batman film. Snyder already established that Batman exists in his world. It would be a shame to not have one team-up film before the BIG team-up

I'd love for the film with Luthor getting exposed, with him ranting at Superman in a similar as he did at the end of All-Star Superman.

Lex: "I could've saved the world if it wasn't for you!"
Superman: "You could have saved the world years ago if it mattered to you, Luthor."

Or even if Lex doesn't get taken away, just him knowing he's been defeated would be enough. I'd aim for a more lighter ending than bittersweet.

 

[Loki882]

I'd like to see Lex escape scot free in the 2nd movie (using his intelligence and resources to cover his tracks). It would fit the idea that he is a criminal mastermind. Have him exposed in a future film in a very public way, then go nuts, jump into a battlesuit, and duke it out with Superman.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I'd like to see Lex escape scot free in the 2nd movie (using his intelligence and resources to cover his tracks). It would fit the idea that he is a criminal mastermind. Have him exposed in a future film in a very public way, then go nuts, jump into a battlesuit, and duke it out with Superman.

I'd love him to team up with a certain DETECTIVE to bring him down, only to find out that the main threat is Brainiac, not Lex

Then once Braniac is defeated, Supes goes to Earth to find that Lex is attacking Batman with his special battlesuit. Superman and Batman both fight to bring the suit crumbling, though Supes saves Luthor before it explodes

That would be cool

 

[Loki882]

That would indeed be cool, but Lois exposing Lex with her insane reporting skills seems more likely. Then Superman could kick battle-suit Lex's butt.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ I want Lois to TRY to investigate Lex, but get in danger doing so.
Heck, I want a significant part of MOS2 to be the investigation of Lex Luthor, and the deaths caused by either Metallo, Parasite, or Bizzaro (leaning on Metallo here.)

Make it seem like the henchman is a big villain, but show that the crimes are all connected with Luthor. Furthermore, I would like John Corben to be a part of the Planet. I think that would make it more suspenseful for comic fans, and unusual for non-comic fans. I'd like Corben to be a character that feels sinister, but you don't know why.

I'd like Luthor, on the other hand, to genuinely feel like a NICE guy, only betraying his true motives with occasional "slips" of the face. IE. If someone says "Superman" and he sort of glares for a second, and goes back to his cheerful frame of mood.

I also want Luthor to become sinister only after Superman has figured it out.
I also want him to get away with it. It makes him seem smarter, more arch-enemyish.
It also causes a mood-whiplash that would be really evocative, IMHO.

Maybe have Luthor claim that Corben "framed him" because he was jealous of Luthor's notoriety and had a personal feud or something, IDK.

 

[Loki882]

That would be an excellent way to portray Lex, TheFlamingCoco, a major "wolf in sheep's clothing." Wasn't that kind of how Lex portrayed himself to the public in STAS (it's been awhile since I've seen the show, but I remember liking it). Corben was sinister in that show because he was voiced by the great Malcolm McDowell.

 

[Zionite1]

Am I the only one who thinks having Metallo alone as the main physical threat of MOS 2 is drastically underwhelming? I mean in MOS1 we had Kryptonians and Kryptonian tech to serve as a physical threat. Metallo alone just cant match this threat. Parasite alone cant match this threat either.

 

[Loki882]

Not every Superman film has to feature a massive, world-ending threat, just like not every story from the comics has featured one. If written correctly, Metallo could work. The action would still be great, but on a smaller scale. Metallo's kryptonite heart could weaken Superman physically, forcing him to rely on his intelligence and cunning. It could be a more sinister and suspenseful film. If MOS was a pulp sci-fi film from the 1970's, MOS 2 could be a thriller from the 1970's/80's (especially if Lex is looming in the background pulling the strings).

 

[Smallville13]

Am I the only one who thinks having Metallo alone as the main physical threat of MOS 2 is drastically underwhelming? I mean in MOS1 we had Kryptonians and Kryptonian tech to serve as a physical threat. Metallo alone just cant match this threat. Parasite alone cant match this threat either.

It's the heaviness on the Kryptonian elements that perhaps harmed the film the most though. It worked best when it was just Superman clashing with this grounded universe.

Superman stories aren't really about physical confrontation. Superman saves people. That is his entire description. Batman hunts villains. But occasionally they overlap and Superman has to fight, or Batman has to save someone.

A whole armada of Lexcorp designed military tech armed with Kryptonite irradiated ammunition is all MOS2 needs. But it mainly needs to have Superman trying to make a positive difference in the world and saving lives. And we need lots of fun moments with Clark and the DP crew. And of course the Lex casting is going to be really important.

 

[Loki882]

I thought the Kryptonian themes and elements worked well because it was Superman's origins. However, I want the second movie to be different and more Earth-centric (except for Supergirl, I want her introduced in MOS 2). It would show how Superman has acclimated into human society and become their champion. You could bring the Kryptonian stuff back in the third film (Brainiac).

 

[Smallville13]

I thought the Kryptonian themes and elements worked well because it was Superman's origins. However, I want the second movie to be different and more Earth-centric (except for Supergirl, I want her introduced in MOS 2). It would show how Superman has acclimated into human society and become their champion. You could bring the Kryptonian stuff back in the third film (Brainiac).

The origin elements were great. It was just all the sci-fi codex/genesis chamber/world engine type stuff that weighed down the second half of the film, not to mention the excessive CGI which was the main part of those elements.

 

[manofsteel4life]

Yes...and bring on Jimmy damit!...

 

[Loki882]

It's a Superman film and for the first time we got an actual Superman fight. There's going to be a lot of cgi (which was very good). Also, I loved the sci-fi stuff (Superman has been rooted in sci-fi since the beginning). However, the second film can be something different. I want to see Jimmy introduced as well.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I think the "too much CGI" complaint comes from the fact that there's a killer amount of disaster effects and that Tentacle thing. Also, the fact that there've been Superman films before CGI was being used.

I don't see anyone complaining that the Hulk is "too CGI."

 

[John-An]

right; superman is such a lame character that he's somehow managed to stay within the comics for the last 75 years, where his symbol is one of the most recognizable symbols on the planet, and where he's considered an cultural icon; yeah, very lame character indeed.

If he was so lame, then he wouldn't have garnered the success and attention that he has within history, regardless of his powers since there are quite a few heroes out there, both dc and marvel, who have similar powers like his, and yet, none of them rival superman when it comes to popularity and importance.

good answer to shut the troll up...

 

[Bren]

I'd like Jimmy to show up and befriend Clark. With Lois and hopefully Perry knowing his secret I'd like him tohave aclose friend who does not actually know who he is.

Other than Pete Ross (eventually, and we don't know how much) it really seems like Clark has had no close friends!