Discussion in 'Man of Steel' started by Thread Manager, Jul 25, 2013.
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]462059[/split]
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]461545[/split]
Superman is being overshadowed by Batman in his new movie and by Iron Man in his own thread.
Yeah, that's partly my bad. Sorry.
That's not what's happening at all. Iron Man and the other Marvel movies came up specifically because of discussion that was launched by my posting thoughts on Man of Steel after having seen the film yesterday afternoon (during which I made mention of said movies). The resultant conversations between myself and others are entirely relevant to MoS because they specifically deal with the scope of the film and how it sets up a wider universe because of its tone and feel.
As for Superman being overshadowed by Batman in his new movie, that's not only very hyperbolic, it's also entirely false at this point since we know nothing whatsoever about the MoS sequel other than that it will somehow involve both Superman and Batman.
Well, I mean, me and some other guy got off on a tangent about wether or not Aldrich Killian counted as The Mandarin, so Iron Man did overshadow Superman for like a second.
Again, my bad.
IM3 wasn't as bad as some people made it out to be, but that experience did highlight what happens to a section of the audience that comes in with preconceptions about any one thing.
A brilliant twist(though I wouldn't want it to happen to joker) was very much completely unappreciated for what it was in light of the idea that mandarin is something else in the hearts and minds of this group of people.
I take this and magnify it 4 fold for superman, given how embedded in our film culture he is at this point. Big or small that made an impact on some people's viewing experience and to me that's significant. Enough to account for a portion of the backlash anyways.
I can imagine a world where all of bruce tim's work has actually been in live action for the past 15 or so years, how would the masses have reacted then I wonder.
I can't wait till we get a more true to modern comics version of Luthor and some people have a knee jerk reaction to what luthor is "supposed" to be to them. I'm even more curious what will happen if people see a batman that's more like the comics than he is TDK trilogy.
I don't envy Snyder's position one bit. I guess all he can hope to do for sure is keep making WB that money.
I was going to counter, but I figured it'd be off-topic since that's not the point of this thread.
I'd have to agree with DigificWriter, it's hyperbolic to think Batman would still Superman's thunder when we still don't know much about the film itself. AngryJoe's review of the news was particularly cringeworthy because he thinks Superman would lose should they ever fight. Seeing how realism plays a big part in DC...particularly MOS, is a human really going to be kicking a superhuman's ass...?
Okay. I didn't see it that way, but it's no big deal.
Anyway, back to discussing MoS and Superman. I didn't mention this in my comments on the film from earlier, but one of the things that I liked - particularly since I'm not that big of a fan of Superman but do know the characters and have some knowledge of their various dynamics as they've been brought to life in the past - was the way Goyer, Snyder, and Nolan had Lois willfully and deliberately seek out Superman's 'secret identity'; it gave the closing scene of him arriving at the Daily Planet a nice bit of nuance that you wouldn't have gotten any other way and made her line of 'Welcome to the Planet' both a professional greeting as well as a bit of an inside joke.
Having just praised that scene, though, I do have one tiny criticism about it, which is that Amy Adams - as phenomenal an actress as she is - played things a bit more subtly than I think she should have with the line and the scene when it comes to conveying that she knows who Clark really is.
That's really not much of a criticism, though, and is ultimately neither here nor there. It's just something I noticed as I was watching the movie.
The thing about that twist that I think made it entirely acceptable is that it removed the aspects of the character that are super racist, it even commented on them while it did so, while keeping the core of what the character is all about entirely intact. I'm not sure the changes in how Superman was presented in Man of Steel kept the core of the character intact quite as much. In in either event, I really don't think they made for very effective storytelling. And I think that's really the thing most detractors have a problem with.
Idk if it removed aspects of the character that made it racist...to me it seemed as if it was a deflection from the stereotypes of China/Asia as a whole, to now accepting the stereotypes that terrorists are to be portrayed as Middle-Eastern. Even though it was implied, that left a sour taste in my mouth.
EDIT: I really have to stop doing this. Sorry you guys.
The foundation of their future relationship is one of the big pluses of Man of Steel. It's built completely on trust and not just love/lust at first sight. They went through an experience in Man of Steel...the type to where relationships are bonded forever.
It's going to be great in the sequel.
The "Batman overshadowing Superman" comments are really disheartening to me. I understand the big Supes fans are disappointed that their hero's next appearance won't be in a proper solo sequel (even though it's a certainty he will be featured in another solo film down the line).
Still, no only is this WF film a completely necessary step for this new shared DC universe, but it's so much better than jumping right into a JL film. The Batman/Superman relationship is one of the most important aspects of the JL, and the bond between these two essentially makes up the foundation of the JL team. Instead of a straight up MOS 2 with more Easter eggs, jumping into this WF movie will save WB/DC years of waiting. It's a smart business decision, for sure, which will expedite their DC universe by instantly creating as big of an "event" movie as possible to compete with Marvel. But besides that, it's smart for plot advancement in terms of the overall proposed universe.
Furthermore, does anyone really think Snyder and his team will want to just disrespect the Superman character by allowing Batman to overshadow Superman? This isn't going to he "The Batman Show featuring Superman!". IMO, each hero will get the respect that he deserves. And if anything, Batman will be getting slightly less screen time and focus since I imagine he'll be filling the antagonist role for much of the film -- the mysterious "new guy" in town who Superman is untrusting of and who's motives are not clear at first, before they set aside their differences and work together to overcome a greater threat in the end.
It's sort of a "win win" situation, and it's going to be something we've never seen before so I'm a little baffled at the number of fans who are worried or disappointed by this news, whether they be die-hard Superman or Batman fans. Hopefully, everyone will be pleased when we learn more about the project and, eventually, get to see the actual movie.
In Bruce Tim's worlds finest Both were given equal play imo. It was superman city but it was batmans villain.
I'm coming around on the idea of this WF film. I understand wanting a more fully developed Superman before Batman appeared. However, it does make sense, being that it is a shared universe, that another hero would step up once Superman became public. Another hero is going to want to know what Superman is about. Can he be trusted going forward?
In this case, this hero stepping up will be Batman, the world's greatest detective. Why would Batman sit around and wait until Superman is "fully developed" to find out what he is about. He is going to want to know right away what this alien's deal is, especially after the catastrophic events at the end of MOS.
Batman had the better end of the stick in that film as opposed to Superman, which is why people are concerned (albeit, hyperbolic concerns). Though, I'll say that Public Enemies was a bit better.
As is the case with most sequels, I imagine Superman will be "better" at being Superman when this film starts. Unlike MOS, this one will most likely start on a high note, with Clark being more confident and set in his ways. Then Batman comes along and twists his works upside down. This WF film is still a GREAT way to further develop to Superman character.
I completely disagree with that, superman was shown to be the prime hero in that story and same goes for "knight time" and "the demon reborn" episodes and what was quite a surprise to me considering that Timm is a much bigger batman fan than superman (although he does love superman).
I thought that Public Enemies was the fairer one of the two. Sure, they made Batman someone who could take down Bane and Grundy and who knows what at the top of a hat, but he spent much of the movie hiding or having to be rescued by Supes. That's how I think it should be done, imho.
Minus Batman taking superpowered people head on without a "game changing" gadget
During the film, what is the name of the song that plays when Clark is floating in the water after saving the oil rig workers? Thanks
Superman saved people in this movie?
lol can't help you.