All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - Part 90

[Smallville13]

Just back from seeing it a second time in the city. Oh boy, I'm glad I saw it first where I did (in a small country town). The full-crowd tonight was dead. The only laugh was with the 'think he's kinda hot' line. At least when I saw it first, everyone was alot more lively and clearly enjoying themselves.

My friend seemed to like it. He liked how Lois was handled. Didn't really get a chance to talk to him much about it after.

I dunno, maybe it was the dud crowd, but it really made me watch the film with a more critical lens, trying to figure out where it all doesn't work. Maybe it did need more humor. I think it's the third act where it really does go astray. I don't know the beginning and Clark's journey, there's something off about it. It's just so messy. I still think we don't get the proper build to where he dons the suit. I'm just not sure. There's so many great scenes in this film. There's just something awry where it fails to connect. I really can't put my finger on it.

It's weird, you'd have to break it down scene by scene. The Krypton opening is phenomenal. I still teared up at this. Even right at the beginning when it's just Lara giving birth (that music). Clark's introduction is very strong too. I love how he disappears of the boat to save the people at that oil rig. Then the first couple flashbacks are very well done too. And I love the bar scene with the trucker. I think that's the best laugh of the movie. Total silence in the theatre tonight though... This was the point the first time I saw it where I put all my fears aside and was ready to call this my favorite film...

... And then it's from the scout ship where something goes wrong for me. It's just the weird sequencing. The exposition. Lois jumping everywhere. Even the first flight, I dunno. And then he's at the Smallville cemetery in civilian clothes. He finds Lois before even meeting back with his mother again? The Jonathan Kent death scene works for me. Again there's so many great scenes in all of this. It's just something about the composition.

When he does meet back with his mother everything picks up for me again. And the Zod transmission scene is fantastic, great tension from Snyder. I assume the flashback in the church is to do with 'bullies'? The talk with the priest is great though. 'Take a leap, and the trust will come later': So in the sequel?

The 'you've got our attention' and subsequent interrogation is great, as well as when Faora picks them up. The dream sequence is cool I guess. All the Black Zero stuff here is pretty good. And Superman saving Lois in the pod is great. Then the Smallville fight is pretty solid. Then the third act is where it all falls apart a bit...

The pseudo science plan of opening a black hole above Metropolis... Superman fighting the tentacles. Metropolis getting absolutely f***ed. The best scene here is by far Perry and Jenny mixed with Superman and the beam. Maybe we didn't get enough development with the DP crew but damn if those actors don't pull this off, and the music! Then the Zod fight just feels like too much. But it is necessary I suppose for a more satisfying ending. Superman killing though is not it.

Then the spy plane, final flashback, and final DP is a strong finish.

There's so much good here. But there's just something not right. It's very frustrating. I do wonder if a director's cut can help this film or not.

My rating would probably be 6.5-7/10. I'm not sure. For comparison I'd give BB 7.5/10, TDK 9/10, and TDKR maybe 7.5-8/10.

In the end, I stand by my assessment on first viewing: It's a messy, and uneven film, but there's enough great scenes in there for me to hold on to and love it for. And the sequel is promising.

Random, but what happened to the scene with Clark petting the dog at the shipyard? It was supposed to come after he steals the clothes I take it?

 

[BH/HHH]

The audience you're with can make a difference. The 2nd time I saw it people laughed at the comedy beats and regardless of what people say there is plenty of them.

A lively audience can definitely make for the experience.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

I honestly could care less how the audience reacts when I'm there I'm in the zone.

 

[ConnorKon-El]

I loved the little montage of Lois figuring out who Clark is and being the reporter that she is.
The first flight scene is great. I love the shakiness and the violent nature Snyder chose to shoot that scene. You feel like you are with Kal flying. All those insert shots of him smiling flying, the camera simulating the whipping air.
And Henry's smile sells it. Glad they didn't go the cheese route and have him scream woohoo or something.
Meh that's so easy to mess up and ooze cheese.
Anyway I understand the it's too dark of a film complaints. I still stand by my analysis saying it's a film that takes itself seriously, it isn't "dark."

 

[xmangambit]

Although I liked the flying sequences in Man of Steel I thought we would get something like this but by himself would have been nice to not get such violent shots of him flying.

[YT]http://youtu.be/KJsb2V4b2eI[/YT]

Yes it was good but I think this would have made it a bit more believable if only for a few shots even, because his work on Owls of Gahoole was amazing.

A couple of things I want to see in 2 are some scene like this with him just in a pensive moment maybe just gliding through the air, also flying through rain in slow motion that is still breath taking in owls.

I really think this would have nailed it visually, and given it that little bit of magic.

 

[ConnorKon-El]

I'm hoping we get a calm and slow flying scene with Kal and Lois for the next film.
I loved moments when he was floating and when he slowly glided away from Lois to Zod.

 

[sabetoonth]

I have a question, how many people have an issue with Superman killing Zod in JUST MOS? Cause he and Lois kinda kill all three of them in Supeman II, and isnt that like considered a great Superman movie that doesn't get the criticism? I saw it on Sunday and I still love it. Perfect film? No. But I enjoyed watching it more than I did either of Nolan's batfilms in the theaters[I saw TDK and TDKR in theaters]. Not t know them as films, they're good to alright, but I enjoyed MOS more.

As for what Smallville13 said about the suit, I think there might have been a point to that. So he put on the suit. that doesn't make him Superman. Not until he starts being Superman does it matter. When he's saving people and the world he really I feel becomes Superman.

And might I add I think it could have been kinda cool to use a Brainiac AI instead of Jor-El's "ghost"?

 

[JangoNate]

I honestly could care less how the audience reacts when I'm there I'm in the zone.

I've never had an audience take away from my enjoyment of a film (except for those that like to talk, kick seats, and answer phones), but a good audience can definitely build on the enjoyment I'm already having. That's what's fun about going with a different set of people each viewing. Seeing them enjoy it for the first time can make my experience better.

My first viewing was in between meh and responsive to the film (though it sounded like everyone liked to loved it afterwards). The second viewing had a better reaction and lead to more excitement in the halls after the film praising it.

The funny thing about the first time is that my wife and I were there laughing out loud at some of the parts. Might have gotten a few looks for it.

 

[JangoNate]

I have a question, how many people have an issue with Superman killing Zod in JUST MOS? Cause he and Lois kinda kill all three of them in Supeman II, and isnt that like considered a great Superman movie that doesn't get the criticism? I saw it on Sunday and I still love it. Perfect film? No. But I enjoyed watching it more than I did either of Nolan's batfilms in the theaters[I saw TDK and TDKR in theaters]. Not t know them as films, they're good to alright, but I enjoyed MOS more.

As for what Smallville13 said about the suit, I think there might have been a point to that. So he put on the suit. that doesn't make him Superman. Not until he starts being Superman does it matter. When he's saving people and the world he really I feel becomes Superman.

And might I add I think it could have been kinda cool to use a Brainiac AI instead of Jor-El's "ghost"?

Love the avatar. One of my favorite scenes in the film.

Didn't have a problem with the killing scene in MOS. It actually stirs up a wealth of emotions when I watch it. The funny thing, is that I never thought about the killing in Superman II until rumors leaked about the ending of MOS. I was pretty much against it and very worried until someone brought up the demise of Zod, Non, and Ursa. Then I watched the film and didn't have a problem.

On that last point...wouldn't it be great if in this universe, Jor-El's program ends up becoming Brainiac?

 

[Tempest]

I have a question, how many people have an issue with Superman killing Zod in JUST MOS? Cause he and Lois kinda kill all three of them in Supeman II, and isnt that like considered a great Superman movie that doesn't get the criticism? I saw it on Sunday and I still love it. Perfect film? No. But I enjoyed watching it more than I did either of Nolan's batfilms in the theaters[I saw TDK and TDKR in theaters]. Not t know them as films, they're good to alright, but I enjoyed MOS more.

As for what Smallville13 said about the suit, I think there might have been a point to that. So he put on the suit. that doesn't make him Superman. Not until he starts being Superman does it matter. When he's saving people and the world he really I feel becomes Superman.

And might I add I think it could have been kinda cool to use a Brainiac AI instead of Jor-El's "ghost"?

I don't get the issue about Superman killing Zod and the other Kryptonians either.

I mean, I guess they could have written the film where Zod came down to Earth and blew up a building that was vacant, and then have Superman angst for twenty minutes about who to side with, until he figures out a way to disable the ship and imprison Zod and the others so they could face terrorism charges in civilian court.

But I don't think that sounds nearly as interesting as what we ended up with on film.

 

[JOE]

I just hope the next MOS isn't a CGI fest. Lex is really the only villain that I'd want to see next until they get the guts to make a Doomsday movie.

 

[Smallville13]

I did find myself wondering, and this might have just been paranoia with the seemingly bored, restless, fidgety audience I was with, was if I was the only one who cared about the characters because I love Superman and understand them. It's the films job to make everyone care for the characters. The two core characters in the film are Clark and Lois. Henry did an amazing job but is Superman too straight a character for people to get behind? I'd certainly like to hope not. Amy always brings a real likeability to her roles as seen here too. But I wonder if there was enough between the two of them.

Maybe that's what I felt was missing. Just some scenes that really connect us to these characters and make us love them. Obviously I already loved them before the film even started. But was there enough there for non-comicbook fans. Just some touches of humor instead of expedition. The 'well here it's an 'S'' is great. More of that. When they meet the first thing Clark does is heat vision her stomach, which was cool I thought. But it would have been nice to have a tender scene after that with some comforting humor between the two of them. Instead he off-screen ditches her on the ice.

Another thought is it definitely did occur to me this time around how sloppy Snyder/Goyer were with Clark's identity. So now the US military knows he's 33 and grew up in Kansas, which they can probably pinpoint to Smallville considering that's where he fought the Kryptonians. Not to mention the police pulling up at the Kent house while Superman is hugging his ma out the front and Lois yells within earshot 'Clark!'. I mean...

The sequel really needs to address this. Especially in light of all the tracking/surveillance leaks of late. Unless there's a scene where the White House addresses this and says 'We know you are Clark Kent. It didn't take long to put all the pieces together.' and somehow decide to keep this classified for whatever reason (hopefully for Clark Wikileaks doesn't exist in this universe).

But I mean it's just sloppy. Lex Luthor should be able to figure it out. Lois figured it out by tracing his footsteps all the way back. And didn't she release all this information publically through that blogger? Ugh. Let's just say the sequel has it's work cut out for it.

They really should have Perry, Jenny, and Lombard be in on it too. Going back to my first point, we also need to see alot more of them 3 in the sequel and really make the supporting cast fun and engaging for people to become more invested in these films.

 

[Rowsdower!]

I just hope the next MOS isn't a CGI fest. Lex is really the only villain that I'd want to see next until they get the guts to make a Doomsday movie.

Agreed. No more CGI. Let's go back to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWNqbqcV4dU

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I did find myself wondering, and this might have just been paranoia with the seemingly bored, restless, fidgety audience I was with, was if I was the only one who cared about the characters because I love Superman and understand them. It's the films job to make everyone care for the characters. The two core characters in the film are Clark and Lois. Henry did an amazing job but is Superman too straight a character for people to get behind? I'd certainly like to hope not. Amy always brings a real likeability to her roles as seen here too. But I wonder if there was enough between the two of them.

Maybe that's what I felt was missing. Just some scenes that really connect us to these characters and make us love them. Obviously I already loved them before the film even started. But was there enough there for non-comicbook fans. Just some touches of humor instead of expedition. The 'well here it's an 'S'' is great. More of that. When they meet the first thing Clark does is heat vision her stomach, which was cool I thought. But it would have been nice to have a tender scene after that with some comforting humor between the two of them. Instead he off-screen ditches her on the ice.

Another thought is it definitely did occur to me this time around how sloppy Snyder/Goyer were with Clark's identity. So now the US military knows he's 33 and grew up in Kansas, which they can probably pinpoint to Smallville considering that's where he fought the Kryptonians. Not to mention the police pulling up at the Kent house while Superman is hugging his ma out the front and Lois yells within earshot 'Clark!'. I mean...

The sequel really needs to address this. Especially in light of all the tracking/surveillance leaks of late. Unless there's a scene where the White House addresses this and says 'We know you are Clark Kent. It didn't take long to put all the pieces together.' and somehow decide to keep this classified for whatever reason (hopefully for Clark Wikileaks doesn't exist in this universe).

But I mean it's just sloppy. Lex Luthor should be able to figure it out. Lois figured it out by tracing his footsteps all the way back. And didn't she release all this information publically through that blogger? Ugh. Let's just say the sequel has it's work cut out for it.

They really should have Perry, Jenny, and Lombard be in on it too. Going back to my first point, we also need to see alot more of them 3 in the sequel and really make the supporting cast fun and engaging for people to become more invested in these films.

I would want Perry himself to know, but not his assistants. Or have him suspect something, anyway.

As for LL, it would be cool to see him blackmailing Clark. But I'd want him to initially not know who Superman is.

I like it when he likes Clark but not Superman in some versions

 

[Rowsdower!]

I would want Perry himself to know, but not his assistants. Or have him suspect something, anyway.

As for LL, it would be cool to see him blackmailing Clark. But I'd want him to initially not know who Superman is.

I like it when he likes Clark but not Superman in some versions

LOL

Perry: So Clark, over the past few months, I've sent you on assignment to Dubai, Syria and Hong Kong. Yet you've never turned in expense reports for any of the flights you've taken. What's up with that?

Clark: Oh, um... must have slipped my mind...

 

[MrMaooz]

LOL

Perry: So Clark, over the past few months, I've sent you on assignment to Dubai, Syria and Hong Kong. Yet you've never turned in expense reports for any of the flights you've taken. What's up with that?

Clark: Oh, um... must have slipped my mind...

Wow, that's actually pretty freakin' good.

 

[STARMAN]

I'm fine with Perry knowing Clark's secret. But I'm drawing the line at Jenny.

 

[Smallville13]

I would want Perry himself to know, but not his assistants. Or have him suspect something, anyway.

As for LL, it would be cool to see him blackmailing Clark. But I'd want him to initially not know who Superman is.

I like it when he likes Clark but not Superman in some versions

Oh yeah, I'd have it that Lex would never find out. It's the only way to do it really. He'd expose Clark's secret if he knew.

I just think that maybe it would alleviate over any potential 'realism' problems by just having that the core DP staff (Perry, Jenny, Lombard) are in on Clark's secret.

 

[PacificBoy]

Oh yeah, I'd have it that Lex would never find out. It's the only way to do it really. He'd expose Clark's secret if he knew.

I just think that maybe it would alleviate over any potential 'realism' problems by just having that the core DP staff (Perry, Jenny, Lombard) are in on Clark's secret.

But with Clark's identity more or less an open secret, how can someone like Lex, the epitome of brilliance and well-connectedness, not possibly know or eventually find out, especially in this established universe of 'realism'.

 

[Nathan]

Oh yeah, I'd have it that Lex would never find out. It's the only way to do it really. He'd expose Clark's secret if he knew.

I don't think he would. It would probably help Superman, if the public knew he grew up as a Farm boy in Kansas, helping people since he was a kid. Also, someone like Lex would realize, you don't want to piss off a guy who's practically a god, by revealing to people his only weakness is his mother in Kansas.

If any harm would come to his family or loved ones, he'd take things really personal. Also, without a dual identity, he'd use more of his free time being a pain in Lex's ass.

 

[sabetoonth]

I did find myself wondering, and this might have just been paranoia with the seemingly bored, restless, fidgety audience I was with, was if I was the only one who cared about the characters because I love Superman and understand them. It's the films job to make everyone care for the characters. The two core characters in the film are Clark and Lois. Henry did an amazing job but is Superman too straight a character for people to get behind? I'd certainly like to hope not. Amy always brings a real likeability to her roles as seen here too. But I wonder if there was enough between the two of them.

I don't think so, everyone I went to the movie with, one being my younger brother the other being my dad and a freind in their 40s really liked the movie and made comments on Clark that were in the positive and I'm the only real comic book fan among the four of us.

Another thought is it definitely did occur to me this time around how sloppy Snyder/Goyer were with Clark's identity. So now the US military knows he's 33 and grew up in Kansas, which they can probably pinpoint to Smallville considering that's where he fought the Kryptonians. Not to mention the police pulling up at the Kent house while Superman is hugging his ma out the front and Lois yells within earshot 'Clark!'. I mean...

The sequel really needs to address this. Especially in light of all the tracking/surveillance leaks of late. Unless there's a scene where the White House addresses this and says 'We know you are Clark Kent. It didn't take long to put all the pieces together.' and somehow decide to keep this classified for whatever reason (hopefully for Clark Wikileaks doesn't exist in this universe).

But I mean it's just sloppy. Lex Luthor should be able to figure it out. Lois figured it out by tracing his footsteps all the way back. And didn't she release all this information publically through that blogger? Ugh. Let's just say the sequel has it's work cut out for it.

I don't think she revealed Clark's identity in the article, I thought she'd written that before her search for him? And yea, running towards him in costume shouting his name with a op car visible i he background had me mentally facepalming her.

I don't get the issue about Superman killing Zod and the other Kryptonians either.

I mean, I guess they could have written the film where Zod came down to Earth and blew up a building that was vacant, and then have Superman angst for twenty minutes about who to side with, until he figures out a way to disable the ship and imprison Zod and the others so they could face terrorism charges in civilian court.

But I don't think that sounds nearly as interesting as what we ended up with on film.

Love the avatar. One of my favorite scenes in the film.

Didn't have a problem with the killing scene in MOS. It actually stirs up a wealth of emotions when I watch it. The funny thing, is that I never thought about the killing in Superman II until rumors leaked about the ending of MOS. I was pretty much against it and very worried until someone brought up the demise of Zod, Non, and Ursa. Then I watched the film and didn't have a problem.

On that last point...wouldn't it be great if in this universe, Jor-El's program ends up becoming Brainiac?

I agree totally on the Superman killing Zod thing, hence why I brought it up cause I know it bothers a lot of people in MOS. He tried to talk him out of it, it wasn't working. He didn't see any other readily available option other than to kill him.
And that idea of Brainiac being the Jor-El AI somehow coming back is an idea I did have on the way out of the theater, it comes back somehow, and in the process like ended up corrupted or something, and didn't Jor-El build Brainiac in at least one version of Superman?

And thanks, credit in my Sig for who made it, I loved that part. "YOU THINK YOU CAN THREATEN MY MOTHER?"

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I don't think he would. It would probably help Superman, if the public knew he grew up as a Farm boy in Kansas, helping people since he was a kid. Also, someone like Lex would realize, you don't want to p*** off a guy who's practically a god, by revealing to people his only weakness is his mother in Kansas.

If any harm would come to his family or loved ones, he'd take things really personal. Also, without a dual identity, he'd use more of his free time being a pain in Lex's ass.

Yes. Plus he could use Clark's identity as blackmail, threatening to expose Superman's identity if he found out.

But wouldn't it be cool if he was bluffing as a way to "mess" with Clark?

 

[roach]

I don't think she revealed Clark's identity in the article, I thought she'd written that before her search for him? And yea, running towards him in costume shouting his name with a op car visible i he background had me mentally facepalming her.

That didn't bother me too much...if the cop knew where to go he probably knew who Clark was already and would recognize him in costume anyway.

 

[Nathan]

You know, I really think Lex should know Clark is Superman, but actually use his influence to keep it a secret from everyone else. Then use that as a bargaining chip against him. Telling Clark how he helped keep his identity secret, and what would he do if he stopped helping him. Have Lex use it as a means to get Clark on his side, or at least try to control him.

But wouldn't it be cool if he was bluffing as a way to "mess" with Clark?

I think it'd be great if Lex tries to manipulate him, and when it fails, he keeps the information to himself after all. A guy like Superman needs someone to go home to. You don't want him to be Superman 24/7.

 

[roach]

Yes. Plus he could use Clark's identity as blackmail, threatening to expose Superman's identity if he found out.

But wouldn't it be cool if he was bluffing as a way to "mess" with Clark?

Let me get this straight. You think that Clark Kent, one of the top reporters at the Daily Planet, is secretly an alien vigilante who spends his time being faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound; and your plan, is to *blackmail* this person?