BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion

[Mysteryman]

But, wasn't his career already messed up after Watchmen and Sucker Punch and he needed MOS to help bring it back?

Or maybe he legitimately wanted to do MOS in the first place and is passionately interested in its sequel.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

But, wasn't his career already messed up after Watchmen and Sucker Punch and he needed MOS to help bring it back?

From a financial standpoint, Watchmen was harmful. I also think Watchmen was the movie that made Snyder into a polarizing figure. But it got a strong fanbase, and positive critical reviews on RT.

Now Suckerpunch was a lead balloon for Zack. Many fans turned on him.

Now MOS has put him back on the map as a divisive director.

MOS2/W/F has to be REALLY great to get people "into him" again. It WILL make bank, EVEN if it drops off due to bad WOM.

This is Snyder's last chance. Whether MOS is a hit or a strike, I feel like if W/F doesn't at least get good critical reviews, he'll be thought of harshly among the people who actually heard of him.

 

[Deserana]

BvS could only really annoy Superman fans. Which obviously is bad for the character but lets be honest here the GA and Batfans would eat it up. Saying that this would make Supes 3 and 4 look amazing because of this is just silly IMO.

It could still be a great film... just not for Superman fans. Although I could see why seeing as Snyder did say this was a "Superman" movie

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ Yeah, the audience is "pro Bat-man" because of the amount of movies with him (especially the Nolan ones) but also the stigma as being "relatable."

Whereas Superman has the stigma of being "too perfect" but also has the disadvantage of people being overly defensive of the character, especially those who do not know anything about him.

 

[herolee10]

But, wasn't his career already messed up after Watchmen and Sucker Punch and he needed MOS to help bring it back?

BvS could only really annoy Superman fans. Which obviously is bad for the character but lets be honest here the GA and Batfans would eat it up. Saying that this would make Supes 3 and 4 look amazing because of this is just silly IMO.

It could still be a great film... just not for Superman fans. Although I could see why seeing as Snyder did say this was a "Superman" movie

If they made Superman into being pretty much Batman’s lesser counterpart, or to put it bluntly, into his proverbial *****, due to how much better Batman is presented over superman, it could do more harm for his overall image as well and send the wrong message to both fans and the general audiences alike.

And what the hell is the point of doing this film at all if it’s only going to be great for Batman fans? Why the hell should Superman have to be crucified in order to make the Dark Knight look great? Didn’t he just get three freaking films to prove that point? Sorry, I’m not venting at you; this frustration is aimed at the corporate nimrods of Warner Bros.

Who's going to take Superman seriously anymore if he can be easily owned by Batman? When people say that they should bring in someone like Bruce Timm to help map this out, I shake my head at that as well since he's like one of the biggest examples out there on how someone prefers Batman over Superman and even molds his own portrayals featuring those two characters to represent that vision.

 

[Deserana]

WB are confusing me here though if that quote is true.

What happened the last time they let their filmmaker do their own vision of a comic book franchise? The Dark Knight Trilogy. Possibly the most critically and publicly acclaimed Comic Book franchises of all time as well as simply loved trilogies of all time.

What happened the last time they stuck their nose into a comic book "franchise"? Green Lantern.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

WB are confusing me here though if that quote is true.

What happened the last time they let their filmmaker do their own vision of a comic book franchise? The Dark Knight Trilogy. Possibly the most critically and publicly acclaimed Comic Book franchises of all time as well as simply loved trilogies of all time.

What happened the last time they stuck their nose into a comic book "franchise"? Green Lantern.

It remains to be seen how much WB is sticking their nose in with this. With Batman they thankfully left Nolan left to his own devices and that worked out wonderfully. But with Superman Returns they did the same thing with Singer and that turned out not so well.

I think with GL being their first attempt at a big superhero movie outside of Batman and Superman and feeling the pressure to match Iron Man that WB execs were really sticking their nose in left and right for that movie. Too many cooks in the kitchen.

With WF, it could be WB turning to Snyder and Goyer and saying we want a Superman and Batman film, make it work. And that's it. I doubt they will be saying well the story needs to go this away, and so and so needs to do this etc...At least that is what I am hoping.

 

[Deserana]

I also don't mind Batman having the upper hand a point in the fight as long as Superman has the final winning blow.

Even a kryptonite weakened Superman in Snyder's world should at least be able to punch the average human through a wall.

 

[herolee10]

WB are confusing me here though if that quote is true.

What happened the last time they let their filmmaker do their own vision of a comic book franchise? The Dark Knight Trilogy. Possibly the most critically and publicly acclaimed Comic Book franchises of all time as well as simply loved trilogies of all time.

What happened the last time they stuck their nose into a comic book "franchise"? Green Lantern.

I guess we can blame the likes of the success that Marvel has had with their Cinematic Universe, along with how they want to be able to legitimately compete with the other big time films during one of the biggest upcoming blockbuster filled summers in 2015 and thought that a direct sequel to MOS wouldn't cut it, even though it's like the second (or third) highest grossing reboot of all time.

 

[Lily Adler]

So Batman vs. Superman = Green Lantern. Sounds about right.

 

[herolee10]

I also don't mind Batman having the upper hand a point in the fight as long as Superman has the final winning blow.

Even a kryptonite weakened Superman in Snyder's world should at least be able to punch the average human through a wall.

Honestly, it's not only so much of how their physical confrontation would be handled, but how they're overall presented, let alone on who's depicted as being the rightful and better hero for humanity overall.

TDKR gave me the impression that Batman was the hero that audiences should have been rooting for instead of Superman and I'm afraid that they'll do the same in this film.

At this point, this feels like it'll only be a "superman film" because he's in it, but not so much because it's about him.

 

[Lencho01]

Or maybe he legitimately wanted to do MOS in the first place and is passionately interested in its sequel.

Well, dude was talking smack about Superman while promoting Watchmen years ago. So, there's that. He needed this film.

From a financial standpoint, Watchmen was harmful. I also think Watchmen was the movie that made Snyder into a polarizing figure. But it got a strong fanbase, and positive critical reviews on RT.

Now Suckerpunch was a lead balloon for Zack. Many fans turned on him.

Now MOS has put him back on the map as a divisive director.

MOS2/W/F has to be REALLY great to get people "into him" again. It WILL make bank, EVEN if it drops off due to bad WOM.

This is Snyder's last chance. Whether MOS is a hit or a strike, I feel like if W/F doesn't at least get good critical reviews, he'll be thought of harshly among the people who actually heard of him.

Seems to be a case a very strong loyalty from Robinov saving him. I think if this were any other studio, he probably wouldn't have been brought up due to the failures of his past few films or hide him altogether from the marketing ala what Sony did with M. Night and After Earth.

Eh, even if the next film's a success, I don't think he'll be a name like Nolan. Look at how many random people thought Nolan directed the film.

I made the "Ooooh!" sound in my head while looking at the gif.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

So Batman vs. Superman = Green Lantern. Sounds about right.

Eh, that was the first superhero film for a lot of that team involved. Snyder and Goyer are at least experienced.

 

[Lily Adler]

Eh, that was the first superhero film for a lot of that team involved. Snyder and Goyer are at least experienced.

Oh! So a slightly better Green Lantern.

 

[Mysteryman]

If WB doesnt interfere too much, a GL situation shouldnt happen, I hope .

 

[Mysteryman]

Well, dude was talking smack about Superman while promoting Watchmen years ago. So, there's that. He needed this film.



Seems to be a case a very strong loyalty from Robinov saving him. I think if this were any other studio, he probably wouldn't have been brought up due to the failures of his past few films or hide him altogether from the marketing ala what Sony did with M. Night and After Earth.

Eh, even if the next film's a success, I don't think he'll be a name like Nolan. Look at how many random people thought Nolan directed the film.



I made the "Ooooh!" sound in my head while looking at the gif.

WB promoted the film as if Nolan directed it .
They slapped Nolans name on every poster, trailer, etc.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Nah. For good or ill, it will be bold, intense, and probably have a lot of character interaction. However, it probably won't be the SEQUEL we want, EVEN if it's a good spinoff from the MOS universe.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

Oh! So a slightly better Green Lantern.

 

[Lencho01]

WB promoted the film as if Nolan directed it .
They slapped Nolans name on every poster, trailer, etc.

Yeah, because a film coming from the dude who did the recent Batman films you probably saw sounds better than the dude who did that one a film you probably saw years ago and the three that you probably didn't that came after. t:

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Yeah, because a film coming from the dude who did the recent Batman films you probably saw sounds better than the dude who did that one a film you probably saw years ago and the three that you probably didn't that came after. t:

Yep. Nolan's name was marketing genius.

Of course, that probably means Nolan will share in the backlash, but he'll recover when Intersteller comes out.

 

[Lencho01]

Yep. Nolan's name was marketing genius.

Of course, that probably means Nolan will share in the backlash, but he'll recover when Intersteller comes out.

I highly doubt it. MOS doesn't seem to have hurt his reputation and I think he's just producing this stuff for the money.

 

[Deserana]

Yep. Nolan's name was marketing genius.

Of course, that probably means Nolan will share in the backlash, but he'll recover when Intersteller comes out.

He received backlash from critics for MoS. I watch Doug Walker (nostalgia critic) MoS review (not a proper proper critic I know) but his brother kept dissing Nolan for things. It was annoying to watch.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

He had some backlash for TDKR, that has continued for MOS. But mark my words, 2014, those same "fair-weather fanboys" are going to be singing his praises when Intersteller does well critically, financially, and with audiences.

 

[Tempest]

Well, a bunch of very vocal critics whined that MOS wasn't close enough to the comics.

If WB listened to the word-vomiting of rabid fanboiz, then Superman is sunk, because they'll push for Goyer and Snyder to follow previous canon more closely, instead of allowing the Superman and Batman relationship to unfold in this new, creative world.

FYI people, demanding that a comic book film fit that one panel of that one comic you read that one time is a recipe for disaster. Stop calling this film WF, or TDKR, or any other name you can think of -- you're only setting yourself up for disappointment by attaching this film to a particular canon, which the film will (hopefully) not be following.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ Faithfulness is a problem I'd like to see more of

Just not to Frank Miller's stuff outside the Batman universe.