BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion

[Loki882]

The whole point of TDK was that Bruce was unprepared for someone like the Joker because he had never encountered anyone like him and Joker goes against everything that Ra's taught him about criminals. In Rises, he was 8 years older, broken physically and mentally, and out of practice facing Bane, a man who was physically and mentally superior. Also, TDK WAS a Batman movie, not a crime film with Batman, I will never buy that criticism. Every writer puts their own spin on the character, Nolan did the same thing.

 

[maluka]

Lots of people have liked TDK.
But I did not.

It's also a crime/gangster movie to me.
Batman/Bale is present something like 20 minutes, the rest is full of the Joker and the bad guys. I disliked it.

 

[The Shape]

Sadly that was one of the only scenes where we saw a detective in the trilogy

That's just so false, man.

 

[Loki882]

The Joker was only in the movie for like thirty to thirty-five minutes (the movie was over two and a half hours long). He just stole every scene that he was in, so it seemed like he was there more than he really was. You clearly weren't paying attention. Gordon got more screentime than the villains. Batman/Bruce was in the movie a lot.

 

[The Shape]

As for Batman winning. No. As soon as he defeats Superman, Clark will go back to having his reputation as "uncool" for quite some time.

It should be a stalemate, or Superman should win. Batman winning is way too predictable, and would only intensify rivalry among fans.

**** a stalemate, and **** either of them winning definitively. I can't believe anyone even thinks the second scenario is on the table. It seems some of you are picturing this Batman/Superman fight in the way that Supes fought Zod in MOS -- an epic battle with a clear victor. I highly doubt that will be the case.

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- my prediction. I predict there will be two confrontations between Batman and Superman during the first 3/4 of the film. In each other those confrontations, each of the heroes will "win" or at least end ONE fight with the upper hand over the other. So for instance, Batman shows up in town having studied Superman and knowing his weakness. He kicks his ass, but the next time around Superman catches Batman off guard and kicks him around a little. (OR vice versa, Superman wins round 1, Batman wins round 2) After that, these two will realize that despite their differences, they NEED to come together to overcome a greater/common threat (Lex or whichever villain they use)...which leads them to form the most important superhero alliance in all of comics.

Worrying about **** like "I hope MY favorite hero looks more badass than the other one" or "Batman better now overshadow Superman" is super lame, and if it continues (which it will), this is gonna be one long, miserable wait until 2015 for many of you.

 

[Marvin]

Like with the avengers, I'm almost certain it will end in a stalemate. That's the way it goes with this sort of stuff.
(unless it's frank miller).

 

[Loki882]

It will be Batman using every trick in his arsenal to try and gain some kind of temporary advantage, emphasis on temporary.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Totally agree, draw would be best for all in my opinion. It shouldn't end with this:

This would be a better way to end it:

I wouldn't be surprised if this happened when Batman first kicks Superman's ass. Even that line. Snyder likes his comic references. Especially since he loves TDKR so much and is using this as a framework.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

It will be Batman using every trick in his arsenal to try and gain some kind of temporary advantage, emphasis on temporary.

Exactly.

[YT]N1m7RZgy05I[/YT] Watch the 35-40 second mark. Batman should be like Superman was to Captain Marvel, whaling on him mercilessly until Superman blocks both hands. Then he should do that ragdoll thing-Avengers style. Just kidding. But I'd want the whole implication to be that if Superman wasn't really holding back, Batman wouldn't stand a chance.

 

[smallville fan]

I just had this thought when I decided to read The Dark Knight Returns again. In the novel we see lots of figures in media offer their points of views on the superheroes like Batman. Any chance stuff like that might be seen, except the media might explore things on Superman's end?

 

[BobJM]

I wouldn't be surprised if this happened when Batman first kicks Superman's ass. Even that line. Snyder likes his comic references. Especially since he loves TDKR so much and is using this as a framework.

I see it coming too. I think Batman will definitely defeat Superman initially, cause, honestly Superman isn't going to know what hit him.

But ultimately, since this is supposed to be a MOS sequel that happens to feature Batman, Superman will take the cake or, perhaps more likely, it'll end in a draw with them teaming up to take on the real bad guy./

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ I DO like the talking media heads in TDKR.

Marvel had a similar montage near the end of TA. Also, there were a few moments like that in the Raimi films, if I remember correctly.

But the MOS franchise could do it more realistically, with more paranoia and whatnot.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I see it coming too. I think Batman will definitely defeat Superman initially, cause, honestly Superman isn't going to know what hit him.

But ultimately, since this is supposed to be a MOS sequel that happens to feature Batman, Superman will take the cake or, perhaps more likely, it'll end in a draw with them teaming up to take on the real bad guy./

As predictable as this is, as long as it's well executed and exciting, I have no problem with this. It's a formula we've seen time and time again, but that's because this **** works.

And if there's a pair of men who would have this dynamic, it is exactly Superman and Batman.

 

[Doctor Jones]

^ I DO like the talking media heads in TDKR.

Marvel had a similar montage near the end of TA. Also, there were a few moments like that in the Raimi films, if I remember correctly.

But the MOS franchise could do it more realistically, with more paranoia and whatnot.

I agree. Instead of talking heads, they would be talking heads on bodies.

 

[Herolee10]

I wouldn't be surprised if this happened when Batman first kicks Superman's ass. Even that line. Snyder likes his comic references. Especially since he loves TDKR so much and is using this as a framework.

Honestly, if that were to ever happen to Superman, then they shouldn't bother having a rematch or even doing more superman films since they've pretty much emasculated Superman right then and there.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I'm confident both will get a chance to "emasculate" the other.

 

[StraightSix]

Snyder wanted to direct an adaption of TDKR after Watchmen. He's a Batman fan at heart.

 

[Brother Jack]

Snyder wanted to direct an adaption of TDKR after Watchmen. He's a Batman fan at heart.

The argument could probably be made that Snyder is more interested in making an adaptation of DKR than a strict Superman sequel. That he's using the Man of Steel franchise to make it happen.

 

[Lily Adler]

Bringing this over from the Bat Casting Thread:

I believe WB's plan is instead of making origin films for the JL members, they're instead introducing them through a MOS sequel.

I see it like this:

Man of Steel > World's Finest > Trinity > Justice League > Spin-Off films. So MOS really is the start of a DCCU, but a DCCU franchise. Hopefully they won't wait that long for solo films.

 

[\S/JcDc\S/]

Bringing this over from the Bat Casting Thread:

I believe WB's plan is instead of making origin films for the JL members, they're instead introducing them through a MOS sequel.

I see it like this:

Man of Steel > World's Finest > Trinity > Justice League > Spin-Off films. So MOS really is the start of a DCCU, but a DCCU franchise. Hopefully they won't wait that long for solo films.

Is there anyway I can say that's obvious thinking without sounding *****ey?

 

[Lily Adler]

Is there anyway I can say that's obvious thinking without sounding *****ey?

NO! If you don't want to get married \S/JcDc\S/, just say so, just say so!

 

[\S/JcDc\S/]

LOL. Although I would disagree that a WW standalone film will end up happening. Female superhero films seem to have a bad track record and I dunno if they'd risk that move.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

The argument could probably be made that Snyder is more interested in making an adaptation of DKR than a strict Superman sequel. That he's using the Man of Steel franchise to make it happen.

When you put it like that, this makes him out to be a dark mastermind of sorts. WB would NEVER greenlight TDKR anytime soon (because it'd be near impossible to get a PG-13 rating), so Zack figured out a way to find a loophole.

By establishing a TDKR Batman in Superman's world, he can hint at the rest of the story in flashbacks. And then it turns out that this is an alternate 1986 all over again

 

[Lily Adler]

LOL. Although I would disagree that a WW standalone film will end up happening. Female superhero films seem to have a bad track record and I dunno if they'd risk that move.

Okay now you're just hitting below the belt, so basically you're striking my Almighty Uterus. But Imma cut a WB exec if Wondy, the most well-known superheroine, doesn't get a film.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Wondy has to happen after a JL film, though. Not doing so would be beyond sexist.