BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion

[John Lambert]

See I don't agree as I said it worked for Star Trek. Its one of those things because it hasn't been done often is seen as a it shouldn't be done like that scenario. This is a chance to break from the norm.

Well, I always say they should make a movie that is the continuation of the story from "Lois and Clark". Well, actually, what I would want them to do is to pretend the last episode of L&C never happened, and instead write things so Lois and Clark have some natural children of their own.

 

[John Lambert]

The more I hear Public Enemies might be more the direction of the story, the more interested I will be.

The fact that the public enemies animated film does not seem to have Lois on cast is not really encouraging to me. On the other hand, since we know Lois will be in MOS 2, I know I should not pay too much attention to such details.

I just hope they make her more central to MOS 2 than she was to MOS.

 

[Marvin]

I think public enemies is pretty crappy. Leob run amok.
However it does serve the purpose of showing yet another superman story complete with characterization and development that features batman(and others).

 

[John Lambert]

@ Zorex. I like it.
For me, i'd add in metallo, made from the crashed tech in the kryptonian ships from MoS.
Maybe throw in some joker..( if bale can be recast so can ledger)
Lex and Joker team up. Military turns on superman with some pushing from Lex ( and after its seen another costumed hero exists, Batman, they assume he is partners with supes and go after him as well )

we see lots of clark, he is trying to dig up the dirt on Lex.
we see lots of bruce since he helps rebuild metropolis while partnering with Lex, but bruce soon discovers the truth about Lex after some digging, and discovers the Joker is on Lex's payroll.

we see Batman save supes from his first encounter with metallo ( kryptonite)
we see supes save bruce from a timebomb planted in his office by Lex.

they join forces, and together they Both evade the FBI, homeland security, etc, in trying to prove their innocence.

Lois should be the lead in digging up dirt on Lex, but she can have Clark as her flunky.

 

[John Lambert]

And then it failed to make a billion :/

At 647 million it has out grossed any other Superman film ever.

 

[John Lambert]

An alien threat would be too similar to what we got in MOS1.

I have to agree. I want to see Lois and Clark using investigative skills to take down earthly villains.

By the way, do we know what Lois won her pullitzer prize for in this world. I know they explicitly stated she had one. We also know she was embedded, I presume in Afghanistan, but I don't think they explicitly say.

 

[NosfeRomas]

ASM made $752,216,557 and Iron Man 3 made over a billion and MoS only 647,256,503.

Doesn't that depress anyone else ? I mean why ? why 2 mediocre movies (opinion but in no way Iron Man 3 deserves a billion and Man of Steel doesnt) made more than Superman, Superman for God's sake ! The very first superhero, an icon of pop culture and the along with Spiderman and Batman the most recognizable comic book character ever. Why people didn't go to see this film ? Naive question but i'd like an answer.

 

[John Lambert]

Something tells me Goyer was working on a follow up Superman film, not one featuring Batman. Adding Batman is a page one rewrite.

I don't think so. I think they planned to bring in Batman all along. They have too much pointing towards that in MOS.

Anyway, it really is the key to avoiding people saying "it's just another Superman movie". Sure, Superman fans will go and see it, but they need a truly different film to bring in the larger audiences.

Also, if Batman and Superman really are in the same world, Batman not showing up is what would be unrealistic.

 

[John Lambert]

And I point to the logo at the announcement as further evidence. If that BvsS film was really in development long before MoS was released there is no way in hell that would be the first image depicting the first ever meeting on screen of these two iconic characters, because that 'logo' is ****ing appalling.

Well Snyder, Goyer, Cavil, Zimmer and anyone else who was in on this is not a graphic designer, so the logo not being fully developed tells us nothing.

 

[John Lambert]

I don't like pulling this card coz it makes me sound like some pretentious *****e but as someone who works in design and advertising bad design is an indication of something rushed, it means little thought was placed into it. If BvsS was genuinely on the cards long before MoS was released, then they would have had a piece of artwork to display that reflected it.

All that really says is they told the designers just before the announcement. Which is good policy if you want the announcement to come as a surprise. The designers are not the writers and directors, and so this does not say those people were surprised.

 

[John Lambert]

Wow, you only took into account the first part of the quote. Man you really want this film to have been in development for a long time.

And you are buying a not well sourced quote, that may have been totally made up, and if it was not made up, we have no idea to the real context.

 

[John Lambert]

Um no it isn't, a quick google search will show it.

White ignore the fact that MOS made $3 million in the last week. Until MOS leaves theatres, pronouncements on what it made are premature.

 

[John Lambert]

ASM made $752,216,557 and Iron Man 3 made over a billion and MoS only 647,256,503.

Doesn't that depress anyone else ? I mean why ? why 2 mediocre movies (opinion but in no way Iron Man 3 deserves a billion and Man of Steel doesnt) made more than Superman, Superman for God's sake ! The very first superhero, an icon of pop culture and the along with Spiderman and Batman the most recognizable comic book character ever. Why people didn't go to see this film ? Naive question but i'd like an answer.

Superman Returns was a horrible film and still casts a negative shadow on Superman. On the other hand, some critics are so hung up on STM, they will attack anything that deviates too far.

 

[Smallville13]

Superman Returns was a horrible film and still casts a negative shadow on Superman. On the other hand, some critics are so hung up on STM, they will attack anything that deviates too far.

I think it's hard to really make that argument anymore that MOS was panned because of attachment to STM. I think it's fair to say that critics generally don't have an agenda and judge films on their individual merits. How they felt about the experience overall. And I think it's a fair assessment that 44% of critics (going by RT) were left feeling cold at the end of the film. It jives with the mixed reaction here as well.

I think MOS went down fairly positively on average overall. But not by much. But people did see it, hence the strong BO return.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Man. Reeve was the perfect Superman. I wish there would've been a Superman/Keaton Batman film

 

[Airwings]

Do you want it to feel like it takes place in the real world (like MOS), or do you prefer something more fantastical?

The cinematic X-Men universe does both.
Just an example.

 

[The Guard]

ASM made $752,216,557 and Iron Man 3 made over a billion and MoS only 647,256,503.

Doesn't that depress anyone else ? I mean why ? why 2 mediocre movies (opinion but in no way Iron Man 3 deserves a billion and Man of Steel doesnt) made more than Superman, Superman for God's sake ! The very first superhero, an icon of pop culture and the along with Spiderman and Batman the most recognizable comic book character ever. Why people didn't go to see this film ? Naive question but i'd like an answer.

Why would this depress anyone? That superhero films are doing incredibly well, even new franchises. People did go to see the film. It made $647 million, and is still making money.

Sequels tend to make more these days. THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN was arguably the fourth film in a wildly popular Spider-Man franchise. IRON MAN 3 is also arguably the fourth Iron Man film of a wildly popular franchise, if you count THE AVENGERS.

Let's have this discussion when we're talking about two or three films down the road.

 

[ЯɘvlveR]

the amazing spider-man also got rebooted in less then a decade and IM 3 had steam from the avengers. neither had to deal lackluster film that was to bring the character back after being on ice for 25 or so years.

 

[Marvin]

I mentioned in the last page, MOS is possibly out grossing ASM already. At least in terms of profit on the dollar.

 

[MrMaooz]

So...Bryan Singer has said he didn't like MOS that much.

 

[Marvin]

So...Bryan Singer has said he didn't like MOS that much.

I very much doubt he would be so bold as to say such a thing, without clarification anyways.Seems like lots of creators or previous superman artists are coming out with the opinion on this. Don't see that happen to often with this stuff.

Except for Stan Lee, but he never says anything negative about anything it seems.

Curious what Bryan Singer thought about SR...

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Singer just said he'd make something similar if he had a sequel greenlit. I have a feeling it would involve Brainiac and earth at stake, and could have been amazing, BUT would be bogged down by Jason and Bodsworth.

 

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

"Here's the bullet points from the Singer Q&A, which are pretty damn interesting:

On Man of Steel: Very different film. A total reconception of the Donner films.
Brushed off suggestions Man of Steel had no charm. "Henry Cavill is pretty charming."
His super-sequel (to his SUPERMAN RETURNS) would have been a bit like Man of Steel with an alien threat."

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

That's not a panning of MOS, though. I think reading between the lines, he'd have wanted something closer to the Donner films, but we knew that before he opened his mouth

Saying the sequel would have been similar in some ways to MOS implies that he felt like he should have been able to do a sequel, but those feelings are kind of inevitable.

Nowhere did he say, MOS sux. He didn't say it ROCKED, but he didn't give an outright pan. I don't think he liked it, but I think he knows how hard it is to make a Superman movie. Also, it would be bad PR against WB by bashing MOS.

 

[Marvin]

"Here's the bullet points from the Singer Q&A, which are pretty damn interesting:

On Man of Steel: Very different film. A total reconception of the Donner films.
Brushed off suggestions Man of Steel had no charm. "Henry Cavill is pretty charming."
His super-sequel (to his SUPERMAN RETURNS) would have been a bit like Man of Steel with an alien threat."

That's it?