BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion

[smallville fan]

Explain Snyder's quote then in regard to it being WB decision.

"It's too early for me to discuss the film. However, regardless of how I feel about Superman, ultimately I have to go along with the direction that Warner Bros. thinks is best".

Does this sound like someone who wanted to go this route?

Let's see, he means it's too early to discuss the finer points with the media?

I too am curious.

It's quite the find, and to be honest, there is no way anyone was going to make the announcement before the big day. What else could Zimmer have meant by that response, more superman?

Looking back at all the interviews with Cavill and Snyder about JLA and stuff...
they consistently give measured responses. Cavill in particular says they need to introduce people before jla.

And now we are getting Superman/Batman, an unconfirmed Flash and a JL movie. Everything Cavill said months ago is suddenly becoming true. They're all in on this and they know exactly where all this is going.

 

[jmc]

Let's see, he means it's too early to discuss the finer points with the media?

Wow, you only took into account the first part of the quote. Man you really want this film to have been in development for a long time.

 

[smallville fan]

Wow, you only took into account the first part of the quote. Man you really want this film to have been in development for a long time.

I'm pretty sure it was. As for the second half, all he's doing is going with WB's plans to set up the DCCU which have been in motion for ages and fast track to JL as stated well before MOS's release. Do you really expect WB to going into 2015 with just 1 solo Superman movie regardless of how successful it was to remotely compete with the likes of SWVII and Avengers 2? Do you have any report of anyone close to the film saying that this was an overnight decision?

 

[jmc]

In short, yes - if Man of Steel made the money WB wanted then it's a done deal. 2015 is MoS 2, end of story, no Batman, no cross-over, regardless of the Avengers, Star Wars or whatever bloody films are coming out. If you think WB has this whole thing mapped out then you're seriously deluded, the plans have been changing constantly in regards to MoS as well as the wider DC universe. Funny you use the word fast-tracked by the way.

 

[BH/HHH]

Thing is, I don't think WB wanted to reboot Batman via a solo franchise directly after the Nolan trilogy and risk it not being as well received. And I don't think they wanted to wait 2 movies and another 5-6 years to arrive at some sort of team up film.

Thus, here we are. A soft reboot of the Batman franchise and the Superman sequel all in one package.

Oh yeah I'd be inclined to agree that they didn't want to do that but my point was this might not be the smash hit they're expecting due to the audience not been invested in this Batman from the get go. Of course that could be total crap and it might do well anyway but I don't think its as straight forward as WBs thinks it will be when it comes to box office numbers.

 

[BatLobster]

Oh yeah I'd be inclined to agree that they didn't want to do that but my point was this might not be the smash hit they're expecting due to the audience not been invested in this Batman from the get go. Of course that could be total crap and it might do well anyway but I don't think its as straight forward as WBs thinks it will be when it comes to box office numbers.

I see what you're saying there. I think at the very least, this gets them "in the conversation" for 2015, at least in terms of online movie gossip and such. Before it was just Star Wars and Avengers. Now we have the big 3.

How well this translates to the mainstream and how well the mainstream will take to a new Batman, hard to say at this point. But at least Batman is a character that the public is used to seeing tons of different versions of.

 

[smallville fan]

In short, yes - if Man of Steel made the money WB wanted then it's done deal. 2015 is MoS 2, end of story, no Batman, no cross-over, regardless of the Avengers, Star Wars or whatever bloody films are coming out. If you think WB has this whole thing mapped out then you're seriously deluded, the plans have been changing constantly in regards to MoS as well as the wider DC universe. Funny you use the word fast-tracked by the way.

If WB went in with a solo Superman against that massive onslaught coming in 2015 then expect it at the lower end of the tower where Disney would look down, smile and wave. The Bat gives it that oomph. I think WB has learned that they need to up their game and plan 3 steps ahead.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

If WB went in with a solo Superman against that massive onslaught coming in 2015 then expect it at the lower end of the tower where Disney would look down, smile and wave. The Bat gives it that oomph. I think WB has learned that they need to up their game and plan 3 steps ahead.

From a business perspective sure. From an artistic one

 

[jmc]

If WB went in with a solo Superman against that massive onslaught coming in 2015 then expect it at the lower end of the tower where Disney would look down, smile and wave. The Bat gives it that oomph. I think WB has learned that they need to up their game and plan 3 steps ahead.

Of course it gives it that oomph, but it's only come about because once again Superman is not proving to be the franchise they believe it to be. Man of Steel didn't provide them with the confidence to allow Superman to once again go at it alone, so they've flashed the bat signal. Again, Snyder's comments says he's doing what WB wants, it's not what he wanted to do. How can you not add two and two together and see this was a recent decision to make this movie? And WB thinking 3 steps ahead? Really dude, I mean, really? You think WB have been doing that all along?

 

[Marvin]

MOS has arguably made ASM money(more I think).
One would have to be deliberately ignorant to suggest WB not play this hand moving forward.

A hand Sony simply can't play(due to property restrictions).
A hand arguably needed to get to their Avengers film (again Sony has no play)
A hand that has clearly given their shareholders a far and away legitimate claim on 2015. We can talk all we want about how MOS2 could have kicked ass in that year had it followed a solid MOS, but even TDKR, a film that followed TDK of all things was crushed that summer in performance and hype by just Avengers 1(that summer didn't also include SW07).

Why on earth would WB want to be the ASM of 2015? More to the point, why would they want to be the TDKR of 2015. When they can be the Novelty of the decade. I just think if these people have cards, they play them. Especially after half a decade of people praising marvel execs for doing just that(to early criticism and now praise).

This is why I think unlike ASM2, we are getting WF instead of MOS2. It has nothing to do with success. It's easy to claim MOS fell short of some hypothetical expectation from the studio, but the reality is that it's pretty much done what some films in it's position have done and a great deal more than what alot of films in it's position have done.

 

[Marvin]

From a business perspective sure. From an artistic one

Avengers says hi.

 

[Deserana]

Hang on, doesn't that Zimmer quote pretty much confirm that he will be back?

 

[jmc]

MOS has arguably made ASM money(more I think).
One would have to be deliberately ignorant to suggest WB not play this hand moving forward.

A hand Sony simply can't play(due to property restrictions).
A hand arguably needed to get to their Avengers film (again Sony has no play)
A hand that has clearly given their shareholders a far and away legitimate claim on 2015. We can talk all we want about how MOS2 could have kicked ass in that year had it followed a solid MOS, but even TDKR, a film that followed TDK of all things was crushed that summer in performance and hype by just Avengers 1(that summer didn't also include SW07).

Why on earth would WB want to be the ASM of 2015? More to the point, why would they want to be the TDKR of 2015. When they can be the Novelty of the decade. I just think if these people have cards, they play them. Especially after half a decade of people praising marvel execs for doing just that(to early criticism and now praise).

This is why I think unlike ASM2, we are getting WF instead of MOS2. It has nothing to do with success. It's easy to claim MOS fell short of some hypothetical expectation from the studio, but the reality is that it's pretty much done what some films in it's position have done and a great deal more than what alot of films in it's position have done.

It made over $100 million less than ASM.

 

[Doctor Jones]

You know if ASM2 doesn't do as well, I wouldn't be surprised we get Sinister Six Spider-Man film for ASM3. Keeping up with the big event films and all.

 

[Marvin]

It made over $100 million less than ASM.

That's debatable.

 

[smallville fan]

Of course it gives it that oomph, but it's only come about because once again Superman is not proving to be the franchise they believe it to be. Man of Steel didn't provide them with the confidence to allow Superman to once again go at it alone, so they've flashed the bat signal. Again, Snyder's comments says he's doing what WB wants, it's not what he wanted to do. How can you not add two and two together and see this was a recent decision to make this movie? And WB thinking 3 steps ahead? Really dude, I mean, really? You think WB have been doing that all along?

Any sensible business in an industry, movie or otherwise sees that if the competition has a proven success formula they would try to think 3 steps ahead and try to one up the competition with their own way. Try doing your own research into this matter and you'll see that this was in motion for a long time. WB wants to beat Disney/Marvel/Lucasfilm or be in the same league as them. That's what all businesses want to do, beat the competition. As Marvin said WB does not want to be the TDKR/ASM of 2015, they saw how they upstaged everyone at SDCC by the sheer announcement of a team-up.

Hang on, doesn't that Zimmer quote pretty much confirm that he will be back?

Looks like it! The score and cast were the best parts of the film, so of course they'll be back.

 

[jmc]

That's debatable.

Um no it isn't, a quick google search will show it.

 

[jmc]

Any sensible business in an industry, movie or otherwise sees that if the competition has a proven success formula they would try to think 3 steps ahead and try to one up the competition with their own way. Try doing your own research into this matter and you'll see that this was in motion for a long time. WB wants to beat Disney/Marvel/Lucasfilm or be in the same league as them. That's what all businesses want to do, beat the competition. As Marvin said WB does not want to be the TDKR/ASM of 2015, they saw how they upstaged everyone at SDCC by the sheer announcement of a team-up.

Of course they do, and they thought they had a winner with Man of Steel! That's what they wanted. Batman was plan B mate, it was never the primary goal, it was the emergency parachute.

 

[Marvin]

Um no it isn't, a quick google search will show it.

Briefly.

-We have the 200 mill in product and promotional tie ins to consider(though I'm not going to assume this is exclusive to mos)

-We have the reports that studios take a larger(if not full) cut of domestic profits vs international ones(especially those Asian ones). I say this cause MOS has currently outgrossed ASM domestically and there is no telling how long WB will keep it in theaters.

- We have the fact that MOS hasn't opened in all the major international markets yet and the ones it has it hasn't played as long.
Example ASM made like 40 mill in japan and I don't remember MOS opening there yet(could be mistaken). ASM made like 30 mill in Brazil over 3 months, MOS has made half of that and it's been playing in Brazil for just under 1 month...and so on and so fourth.

Lastly, and I would concede that the previous spiderman saga were simply a bigger international hit than the last anyone overseas has seen of Superman but that's beside the point.

So yes, if you are going to use Google, use it to it's fullest.
MOS is going ASM money, if not more at this point.

Also ASM cost more than MOS, but that's a bush league point given the circumstances lol.

 

[SpideyFan866]

Did WB plan for Batman to appear in MOS2? Probably not.

Did Snyder and Goyer? probably yes.

they clearly didn't/don't have a fleshed out story yet, but they clearly knew what direction they wanted to go with the sequel (should one have happened) as far as picking up where MOS left off and what characters they'd bring in (i.e. Lex and Bruce).

 

[smallville fan]

Of course they do, and they thought they had a winner with Man of Steel! That's what they wanted. Batman was plan B mate, it was never the primary goal, it was the emergency parachute.

Prove it. All signs so far say otherwise. I've debunked your ideas of what the quote means, and again, do you really believe WB could really survive with just 1 single solo Superman movie(regardless of how well the movie before it went) against everything in 2015? No one wants to be the ASM/TDKR of 2015. They know they needed to up their game and prepare and finally they realize one single property is not enough but more than one and of course knew this for quite some time. If anything, Plan B would've been to reboot Batman set in the MOS world in his own solo movie and shelve Superman for later.

 

[Marvin]

Sinister 6 was probably green lit after Avenger's opening weekend.
(it's all Sony's got as far as novelty).

WB probably thought thinking in terms of conventional sequels around that time as well, however Nolan was having no part of it. I think WB might have had some ideas about character cameos way back in the TDKR days, to assume this wasn't even on the table is fickle. I think they just needed MOS to be a hit before they moved forward with it.

I'm just glad they did this and not JLA in 2015 as many reports had claimed they wanted to, I can only imagine what fanboys would be saying then.

 

[IncognitoWalrus]

I hope Luthor is the villain just so this can happen.

 

[smallville fan]

I hope Luthor is the villain just so this can happen.

Oh god yes! But I assume they'll be doing something with Zod's armor in the engineering of that. It's probably not a surprise they look the same.

 

[John Lambert]

Well, it appears Avatar 2 will not come out in 2015 as some have suggested.