Any chance the big events will stop?

JDym

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Though I've been enjoying DARK REIGN (an aftershock, or whatever you want to call it), I'm getting tired of all these big events.

Here's a well written article about it from Crave Online:

Recently Marvel Editor Joe Quesada stated that the current Dark Reign event series would carry Marvel Comics all the way through the end of 2009. Meanwhile across town DC Editor Dan Didio has let it be known on numerous occasions that the current World Without Superman, Superman New World Of Krypton and the lack of Bruce Wayne in the Batman titles will not only go through 2009 but will affect every single title in the DC Universe. Looking at those two statements I can only say this:
Enough already.
Identity Crisis, Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis, 52 Crises’ That Lead To A Countdown, House Of M, Civil War, Secret Invasion, Dark Reign From A Secret Invasion Based On A Civil War From The Ashes Of A House Of M, and on and on. It seems that the need for Marvel and DC to beat us over the head with “Event Series” has largely chipped away at the idea of letting comic books and their characters breathe on their own. People don’t get into comics so they can start collecting every single issue in a brand’s roster they do it because they fall in love with a specific character.
Most of us who are older long time comic readers started off loving one character that became the doorway into a larger world. For me it was Batman issue 391 that ushered in a lifelong obsession with comics. Some of my friends got in through Spider-Man, Superman, Green Lantern, Wolverine, Daredevil and so on.
Today any kid buying his first comic has a 90% chance of buying into some story he doesn’t understand, featuring characters he doesn’t care about. That isn’t the magic of comic books, that’s the magic of advertising. DC and Marvel have stopped focusing on keeping their individual titles taught and interesting because they’re too busy trying to get everybody to buy every title so as to stay current with the latest event to go down.
Not only are these event series bloated they never seem to end. Marvel’s Secret Invasion felt too many like nothing more than a conduit getting readers from Civil War to Dark Reign. With all the pomp and circumstance surrounding Secret Invasion to read the last issue and find it only lead to yet another event series left me feeling really disappointed. DC’s Final Crisis was even worse because writer Grant Morrison decided he would dose himself on Acid and then write a huge event that made no sense and was pseudo intellectual to the point of making me want to burn down the DC Offices with Morrison tied to the side.
My other favorite thing with the non-stop event comics is how each and every one is touted as the end all be all to comic books. How many times must we be told that these events will change things forever, destroy the DC or Marvel Universe as we know it or alter the future of this character or that one in way we couldn’t dream of.
Usually that ends up being a lot of horse****.
Bad guys lose, good guys win and then we’re pushed into the next event. Sure in comics the good guys always win but when it’s kept to their individual stories it becomes a personal journey fans choose to join in to. When it’s used to shill more books it becomes the comic book version of the boy who cried wolf.
“Oh I see this time it’s going to change everything. Oh, oh wait nope, didn’t change anything. Oh I get it, ok, this next thing is gonna change it all. Wait, ****, damn it another one!”
See how anti-climactic that is? DC and Marvel are way too frightened to actually change things forever so those tag lines become hollow promises that generates more frustration than excitement. Even the promise of the “death of a beloved character” means nothing anymore. Christ they brought Barry Allen’s Flash back after twenty years so who really believes any character that dies will stay dead? When you remove the emotional impact of death or actual changes to the lives of the characters what you get is a mess, not a great read.
Another issue with these huge events is that DC and Marvel will completely change a character’s behavior in order to make their event work. Look at Captain America in Civil War. Here’s a man who has always believed in law and order and his country. When that country calls upon him to do something he doesn’t fully believe in there is no turmoil, no time where Cap is searching for what’s right. Instead BOOM he runs off and starts a resistance.
In Marvel’s current Dark Reign we’re all supposed to believe that Norman Osbourne has been entrusted with all aspects of National Security simply because he helped in Secret Invasion against the Skrulls. Norman Osbourne has always been an evil sociopath but suddenly he can preen for a camera and have the world eating out of his hand. Not to mention the strain on credibility that a world so paranoid about their leaders would give a former criminal the proverbial golden ticket.
Then there’s the mess DC and Marvel make Editorially. I have yet to see these event series handled without serious delays or weird gaps in the stories time line. Civil War was eight issues and there were constant delays in the release. With every other title tied into Civil War it held up nearly everything Marvel released. In the normal Spider-Man story the events of Brand New Day erased almost all of Spider-Man’s history from the last 20 years and yet that hasn’t sifted over to the time line in Dark Reign where Spider-Man is part of the New Avengers.
Currently over at DC Comics there’s a series called Final Crisis: Legion Of Three Worlds. This series is a spin-off of Final Crisis but won’t end for another three months, nearly five months since the end of Final Crisis itself. Why would anybody buy into these tie-ins when the publishers themselves can’t seem to release them on time or in a way that makes sense with the rest of the timeline.
So what I think we need is a year, one year off from major event stories. Within that year let’s allow each of these characters to breathe a little, develop their own story lines and get back to what we loved the most about them.
I think it would be great to allow writers to create and execute stories that move along the lives and mythos of the individual heroes instead of only furthering the agenda of an event series. Look at a writer like Ed Brubaker who has largely kept Captain America and Daredevil out of the current Dark Reign series. Coincidentally (or not) those are two of the best titles currently in production.
After this year off maybe DC and Marvel could really look at what makes an event series work. Look at something like Secret Wars, one of the greatest events in comic history. It was a 12 issue series and when it was over, that was it.
From there we got to watch the impact of how Secret Wars affected each title. Spider-Man’s new black costume, the Fantastic Four sans Ben Grimm and so on. That’s the kind of series that really works. It comes along every couple of years and while it does last for multiple issues it doesn’t mess with the continuity of the individual titles.
DC managed to do that with the 52 series but then got greedy and forced readers down the road of Countdown. Countdown was only interesting because the beginning middle and end were all a mess, that’s pretty impressive from a writing standpoint. The response of fans to 52 versus Countdown proves that a solid and well thought out event series will always win out over something done simply to try and hawk more books or create some kind of false buzz.
Another aspect to the event series that could help would be to keep them contained to specific titles. Much like The Dark Phoenix saga for the X-Men or A Death In The Family within the Batman Universe an event story that stays within one title can be just as exciting and way less intrusive. It allows the writers to build a story over time then move it into the event series. Once the series is over then we get to see how the fallout effects everyone involved. That creates tension and drama and that keeps people coming back.
Even the much-debated Batman RIP was a step in the right direction. True it was an asinine idea that was executed with total incompetence but it least it only screwed with Batman. The one-title idea also helps if a series is a complete failure or if the physical publishing of it gets delayed. Any bump in the story, the quality or the continuity affects only that one title, not the entire Universe.
So what say the fans? Do you think it would be good idea to take a year off of big event series and just let comic books be comic books? I say Marvel and DC should let the current series run their course and then just back off for 12 issues. Let the writers and artists go down roads they always wanted to, create new and interesting plot developments and introduce new drama to their books.
This would not only allow readers to just kick back and enjoy the comics they love but also allow publishers to really plan out a new event to make sure all pistons were firing before it was released. I know I’d like to see a return to comics being about the characters and not just vessels to launch event series.
That would actually be one of the best events that could happen to comics.
 
They'll stop once you stop buying them.

And by "you," I mean everyone.
 
That's the only thing that'll stop them. Until then, expect the DC and Marvel universes to be changed forever with uncanny regularity.
 
Yeah, that's a pretty ridiculous response from Joe Q.

Either way, I'm fine with the events. I just skip the ones I don't want to read.
 
Jesus, Quesada. :facepalm
 
Dark Reign isn't really an event though, so I guess we're getting a break from them once the shock of the new status quo wears off.
 
Dark Reign isn't really an event though, so I guess we're getting a break from them once the shock of the new status quo wears off.
True it's not an event but it is kind of marketed like one. every book doesn't need a DR banner we can pretty much figure out by reading the inside and seeing Norman Osborn shows up. right now having DR on the cover and Osborn popping up is as sure a thing as having SI on the cover and a skrull popping up.
 
I can't believe how little respect he has for individual stories.
 
I like event books. They give me a chance to take a look at titles that I normally wouldn't and if I like them, then I'll continue to pick them up.
 
Quesada's answer to the event question is a bit of baloney but not for the reason everyone is saying. He was the EIC of Marvel from 2000-2003, into 2004, without needing one event, so he knows perfectly well how to sell comics without needing them. Or at least he did alongside Bill Jemas. While Jemas wasn't a genius all the time, a part of me thinks Joe Q was more competent with him than without him. Jemas was the guy who wanted to keep comics "affordable", recall. $4 wouldn't have happened under his watch, no matter the economy or loss of ad revenue.

The events will only stop when they don't sell, or at least when retailers don't over-order them. Diamond sales figures only track what retailers collectively order, not what actually leaves their shelves in paid sales. You can still find plenty of first print SECRET INVASION issues at most shops in the New York area.

The problem is that both Marvel and DC have spent about a full Presidential term of time creating a market where they scream from the heavens that only books that are "important" are worth getting or over-ordering. Which of course leaves all those other books that may be good, and may even tie into an event, but aren't as "important". This, of course, confuses Joe Quesada and Dan DiDio.

Between advertising and prices, Marvel at the moment seems willing to encourage retailers to sacrifice all the midcard and lower selling books for the few ones that sell at the Top of the Top 25 or so. Whether that pans out long term is the question. The market can't rely on a few $4 at the top selling 90-100k no matter the price if all of the rest of the Top 300 books take a dive.

Marvel needs to give some of their earth shattering status quo's time to breathe, and Joe Quesada poo-pooing any suggestion of that shows how little consideration he gives the intelligence of his readers, and how short a memory he believes they have. He basically treats us like sports promoters treat THEIR fans. :p

And seriously, guys, stop asking for Ben Reilly. Joe Q uses him as an example of his theory that, basically, "any garbage story will have it's fans if you wait long enough", therefore justifying his own garbage stories like ONE MORE DAY. Please, let Reilly go. Before Mephisto, he was the face of editorial desperation to try to "fix" Spidey in a way that made him a billion times worse. Losing him was like burning off a tick. Stop adding fuel to Joe Q's theory of, "anything I do is perfect, and anyone who criticizes me is a moron".

If Joe Quesada does anything right, it is that sometimes he knows to not fix what isn't broken and to deligate stuff to people who DO know what they are doing, like Brubaker on Cap, or Abnett & Lanning on the space books.
 
Dark Reign is more a motif than an event.

For an event you have to have a mainline series where the most important stuff happens.

Following the "crisis/ civil war" format.

I guess Dark Avengers could be this..but DA is just a new book more or less.
 
I concede that so far DARK REIGN is a line wide motif or tagger, rather than an event with a mini and everything (that rests on buying an implausible story to justify Osborn's reign; seriously, I have seen WWE do better "rise of a heel" stories that made more logical sense), but I think most fans feel that Marvel won't be able to help themselves, and come the summer we will hear about the "event" that is due in late 2009 or 2010. As it is, they are flooding the market while hiking prices during a recession, which is begging for the market to contract.
 
yeah folks, you really have to stop putting your hand in your pocket

let your wallet do the talking and just don't buy for the sake of it.
 
at their rate with half of marvel books costing $3.99 the next 8 issue big event series will cost $4.99.
 
I can't believe how little respect he has for individual stories.

Considering that Quesada makes it optional for any given book to tie into an event--and leaves it to the discretion of the writers--I'd say he has respect for individual stories.
 
Considering that Quesada makes it optional for any given book to tie into an event--and leaves it to the discretion of the writers--I'd say he has respect for individual stories.

I find this pretty hard to believe. REALLY hard to believe actually. Sounds more like a claim he makes in interviews while pressuring behind the scenes (Just as bosses at regular jobs have their policies, then they have their "suggestions" which aren't officially in writing).
 
I dont mind events, its just that they need to have breathing time between them. I want to see how the events affect the characters in their respective books for a while before we jump into the next one. Whats the point of "changing everthing FOREVER!!!" if the changes dont actually stick?

Dread also made a great point too, from 2000 to about 2004, before all these events erupted, marvel had aLOT of great selling books and weren't tied into any sort of event. Amazing Spiderman under JMS, Daredevil under Bendis, Astonishing X-Men, New X-Men under Morrison, Warren Ellis' Ironman, Brubaker' Cap, pretty much all of the Ultimate books etc. ALL those books were selling exponentially well without the aid of an event.
 
I dont mind events, its just that they need to have breathing time between them. I want to see how the events affect the characters in their respective books for a while before we jump into the next one. Whats the point of "changing everthing FOREVER!!!" if the changes dont actually stick?

Dread also made a great point too, from 2000 to about 2004, before all these events erupted, marvel had aLOT of great selling books and weren't tied into any sort of event. Amazing Spiderman under JMS, Daredevil under Bendis, Astonishing X-Men, New X-Men under Morrison, Warren Ellis' Ironman, Brubaker' Cap, pretty much all of the Ultimate books etc. ALL those books were selling exponentially well without the aid of an event.
 
From 2000 to 2004, Marvel was about neck-and-neck with DC. Now, Marvel kills DC every single month in market share. So there's been some improvement there.

Then again, Thor and Hulk are two of Marvel's best-selling titles and they're almost entirely self-contained. So events don't necessarily make that much of a difference, I think.
 
Dread, we're gonna hafta fight on the Ben issue.

If they hadn't tried to sell him as the original, I don't think anyone woulda minded his being around. Marketing got involved and the story ran in ways it wasn't supposed to. That's the only black mark against Ben. As a character he was incredibly superior to Peter. At least at that time.

I fer one would love fer the events to either slow down or stop. Or at least have events that run IN the event books an' not in a billion side-issues. If the big two wanna go event-crazy, they should keep it nice, simple, localized events within a family of titles. Shelve the big universe-wide events and just focus on yer Messiah Wars or yer Blackest Night or yer BND or yer RIP. A status quo isn't a status quo if it doesn't have a second to BECOME the status quo.
 
I agree on the Ben reilly issue, if they didnt try to sell him as the original Peter then alot more people would've been accepting to the character. Heck, who are we kidding? Even now, Ben's got a HUGE fanbase (including myself), he was a such a great character that never even got to reach his full potential and in a lot of ways represented what Peter Parker really should be.
 
I'm sick of the 'big event' crap too, but I seriously doubt they'll stop anytime soon.
 
As stated before, as long as people keep buying, they'll keep producing.
 
Dread also made a great point too, from 2000 to about 2004, before all these events erupted, marvel had aLOT of great selling books and weren't tied into any sort of event. Amazing Spiderman under JMS, Daredevil under Bendis, Astonishing X-Men, New X-Men under Morrison, Warren Ellis' Ironman, Brubaker' Cap, pretty much all of the Ultimate books etc. ALL those books were selling exponentially well without the aid of an event.

Events I think have just become like an easy upper for sales, where the editorial sees the diminishing returns of sales long term worth the booms and busts short term.

From 2000 to 2004, Marvel was about neck-and-neck with DC. Now, Marvel kills DC every single month in market share. So there's been some improvement there.

Then again, Thor and Hulk are two of Marvel's best-selling titles and they're almost entirely self-contained. So events don't necessarily make that much of a difference, I think.

CAPTAIN AMERICA also mostly is separate from the MU, at least since CIVIL WAR.

The irony is that THOR is perhaps one of the most successful examples of how to relaunch a former A-Lister, turned C-List, and is back to A-List again in recent memory. THOR's sales had fallen to some 35k a month barely, despite story or art quality on his last volume. Marvel went to relaunch but they didn't want to half-ass it; they ended up waiting four years, as in a full Presidential term, to get the right direction along with the right creator. The result was a mega-hit that can still score 80-90k sales even when it misses a month or two between issues.

Many franchises that used to be good but are fading are almost never fixed because there is less effort to actually fix what is broken, as well as not enough down-time given to build anticipation. Simply publishing a series because it has always been published doesn't work for everything.

The point is that Joe Quesada knows full well how to sell comics without needing a ballbuster event every year, just usually has chosen to not go that route since 2005 or so.

Dread, we're gonna hafta fight on the Ben issue.

If they hadn't tried to sell him as the original, I don't think anyone woulda minded his being around. Marketing got involved and the story ran in ways it wasn't supposed to. That's the only black mark against Ben. As a character he was incredibly superior to Peter. At least at that time.

Ben Reilly is the manifestation of another set of editors thinking that a married Spider-Man was the end of the universe as we know it, and he was their attempt to awkwardly and crudely shove that married geezer web-slinger to the side to focus on the adventures of single Spider-Man. The irony is that had they tried to set it up as a transition, a Barry Allen passing to a Wally West, it might have worked. Instead they claimed that Peter had been the clone since the 70's, and that completely failed. But barring that, Ben Reilly was Marvel's then most desperate and overreaching attempt to undo the marriage, because they are old men afraid of women or having Spider-Man grow up. Despite the fact that children love Goku despite him not only being married, but having children and GRANDCHILDREN. Basically, editors claiming to do what they feel is in the best interest of the franchise while in reality only seeking to return the status quo to their own limited youth, back when LBJ was president and everyone was high.

It failed, and it was a spectacular failure. Spider-Man would never sell that well again. And while I am not a fan of ixnaying EVERY detail from that era from future stories, Reilly was dead and buried.

It is most unfortunate that Joe Quesada would overreach even more and almost make the clone retcon seem logical with his Mephisto annulment and planetary mind-wipe.

But everyone who begs for Reilly's return just justifies Quesada's notion that every terrible idea has it's fans and therefore all of his ideas by definition are perfect, which is far, far, FAR from the case. The best things that have happened in Joe Q's tenure have been becoming less dependent on publishing sales, and on trusting certain franchises into the right hands of talented writers. Stuff that bares his personal Coffee Stain from his Cup O' Joe, like ONE MORE DAY, is usually retched garbage. Even he admits as much by going in interviews, "We needed that marriage undone, and it didn't matter how, it had to happen!" The result of course has been ill will among Spider-Fans and a ASM title that has seen it's sales dive very steadily. The Obama issue will skew the ratings a bit for 2009, though; 5 prints sold nearly half a million copies.

Quesada would probably make better decisions if he had humility. Seeing fans literally beg him for a return of one of the worst misfires of the 90's won't give him any, and won't make Marvel any better. It is a sign of how small an industry it is, and how few genuinely new ideas that come out of it, when even the terrible ideas from Marvel have leagues of supporters. It's almost akin to Hollywood remaking every movie and TV show from the past, even the ones that were **** to begin with.
 

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