The Dark Knight Rises Anyone else not like the 8 year exile plot?

[ALP]

Yet, so in totality Nolans Bruce Wayne has only been Batman for about a year..?

In BB from the time he dons the mask til the end is about a few weeks, the time from BB to TDK is about 8 months, then the events of TDK take place over several weeks, then he goes on a 8 year recluse, comes back as Batman for a few days gets his back broken, imprisoned, escapes and then saves Gotham as Batman in a day, then retires.

Yeah, watching the movies it's fine but when you think about it, it's somewhat disappointing.

Also guys, remember at the beginning Selina Kyle believes the rumors that Bruce Wayne is scarred or deformed. He apparently never even left Wayne Manor. He spent 8 years locked up in his bedroom

Hope he at least had a playboy subscription.

 

[uniqueweasel]

To me it seems strange that his parents getting killed made him more determined than ever, but losing Rachel, basically made him a recluse for 8 years, that doesn't sit right as something Batman would do.

 

[angryweb]

To me it seems strange that his parents getting killed made him more determined than ever, but losing Rachel, basically made him a recluse for 8 years, that doesn't sit right as something Batman would do.

This isn't your traditional Batman though. Nolan humanized the character by making the trilogy more about Bruce Wayne and his struggles than Batman.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

I think Bruce felt deflated after the events of The Dark Knight. We must remember that Batman is a superhero born out of grief. He's trying to protect people with his new found power as the Batman, but when his best friend/love dies and the man who was going to take over as Gotham City's hero also dies, Bruce felt powerless; like he was worthless. If Gotham City needed the Batman when he was gone, then the movie would have said so.

 

[uniqueweasel]

I understand the version of the humaized Batman, but it just seems like as a child and young adult he can watch his parents murder and let it motivate him, but the death or Rachel puts him in exile. To me it kind of belittles his whole motivation from the begining.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

Bruce considers Rachel's death a failure on his part, when as Batman, he wouldn't allow failure for himself. As a kid, he couldn't stop Joe Chill, but as Batman, he was supposed to protect Rachel and even after all the things he did to keep her safe, she still died. It cut Bruce at the knees.

 

[JackWhite]

It's still ambiguous as to the timeline of Bruce's mental decline. There's no way he just stopped going out, making public appearances as Bruce after the night Dent died. I mean, I'd like to even think he patrolled a little on rooftops as Batman for a few months, maybe even stopped a mugging or what have you. But ultimately, Bruce realized there was no need for Batman at all; that there was no longer any serious crime he had to deal with that the police couldn't easily handle themselves. So he hangs up his cape and cowl and slowly over the course of 8 years, becomes more and more withdrawn.

I actually expected Alfred to say Bruce hadn't been down in the cave for 'years', instead of 'a while'. But maybe I'm not reading into it correctly, gotta see this again soon.

 

[uniqueweasel]

But like as a kid he couldn't stop the joker killing her it was impossible. It may probably be just me but, it just doesn't seem to warrant 8 years of exile. Fair enough hang the cape up, but the way we are led to believe Wayne is motivated is by that pain of loss.

 

[JackWhite]

I understand the version of the humaized Batman, but it just seems like as a child and young adult he can watch his parents murder and let it motivate him, but the death or Rachel puts him in exile. To me it kind of belittles his whole motivation from the begining.

The death of Dent exiled Batman, while the death of Rachel exiled Bruce.

 

[\S/]

He felt guilt over Rachel and Harvey, so he quit. Gotham City did just fine without him thanks to the Dent Act.

See, I have a HUGE problem with that interpretation of both Gotham and The Batman.

First of all, Gotham: Gotham City did "just fine without him," for ****'s sake? Really? It's Gotham City! There's the problem of rampant organized crime, but that's NOT what created The Batman in Batman Begins.

Which brings me to my second problem...

...NO CRIME is too small for The Batman. So even if organized crime has diminished, The Batman is out there, night after night, saving people from the kind of scum that created him.

That, to me, is a core misunderstanding of the character that it's really tough to excuse, even in a more "human" take. At the end of the day, as much as I love the Nolan films, taking the almost super-human drive and determination away from The Batman for the sake of "reality" betrays the core of the character's origin and purpose.

Still love the films (Batman Begins more than TDK and TDKR) but I wish creators could temper their desires to put "their own take" on characters like The Batman and Superman. They're almost a century old and will be here long after us.

There's creative freedom, but there's also dedication to the legacy and the integrity of a character with such history.

 

[uniqueweasel]

The death of Dent exiled Batman, while the death of Rachel exiled Bruce.

So simplified, but yet thats a really good way of looking at it, I may have to reaccess!

 

[JackWhite]

So simplified, but yet thats a really good way of looking at it, I may have to reaccess!

Yeah, I see what you were getting at though.

I always took it, that when Rachel died, and Harvey became Two-Face, that he accepted his fate as Batman forever. But with taking on the crimes for Dent he was forced into retirement and was pretty much stuck in limbo. In the beginning of TDK he felt he didn't have to be Batman for much longer, because Dent was a suitable successor, but when all that got thrown out the window; he realized he had to be Batman for the long hall. The 8 year retirement was never in the cards for Bruce, but the way it played it out with major crime being extinguished via the Harvey Dent act, he was forced to no longer be Batman. This is a guy that fully accepts his destiny at the end of TDK, yet he can no longer be him for the greater good that he wanted to achieve.

I know some people still hate the fact that he wasn't Batman for 8 years, but technically he still was in his mindset, he just couldn't act upon it. This is a Bruce Wayne that is more Batman than anything else in TDKR. He wants to go out and fight evil, but there is no evil to fight.

 

[JackWhite]

I also love how reinvigorated Bruce is after his first night back as Batman. It's sad yet very poetic because Alfred was right, Bruce would rather die as Batman than not be Batman.

 

[uniqueweasel]

Yeah, I see what you were getting at though.

I always took it, that when Rachel died, and Harvey became Two-Face, that he accepted his fate as Batman forever. But with taking on the crimes for Dent he was forced into retirement and was pretty much stuck in limbo. In the beginning of TDK he felt he didn't have to be Batman for much longer, because Dent was a suitable successor, but when all that got thrown out the window; he realized he had to be Batman for the long hall. The 8 year retirement was never in the cards for Bruce, but the way it played it out with major crime being extinguished via the Harvey Dent act, he was forced to no longer be Batman. This is a guy that fully accepts his destiny at the end of TDK, yet he can no longer be him for the greater good that he wanted to achieve.

I know some people still hate the fact that he wasn't Batman for 8 years, but technically he still was in his mindset, he just couldn't act upon it. This is a Bruce Wayne that is more Batman than anything else in TDKR. He wants to go out and fight evil, but there is no evil to fight.

Yeah I can see that point of view, it seems you have understood it a lot better than myself! So from this really you could also argue that Batman was 'broken' by the Joker long before Bane came on the scene, he just came and finished the job off!

I also was thinking about the opening scenes with Selina, it does still show Bruce has the combat mindset, by having a bow and arrow, that he has accuracy in, so I suppose even in the confines of Wayne Manor he has still being keeping some of his skills sharpened, even if its just using a bow and arrow for target practice.

 

[Sundancer]

O

And why is Bruce walking around with a cane 8 years later, as if his ordeal with Joker and Two-face happened last week.......? He's been injured for 8 years?

I guess you and I will never get an answer as to how he got those injuries if he's been doing nothing for 8 years.

 

[da3dl3us]

In the context of TDKR, him being absent due to his personal failure with Dent and Rachael makes sense.

But it totally deflates the ending speech Gordon gives in the end of TDK. You're given a sense that Bruce has now truly embodied "The Dark Knight" of Gotham, doing the work no one else is willing to do, despite the scrutiny of the public, because "He can take it."

After watching TDKR, we find out he really couldn't take it.

 

[Drunkard Esq.]

In the context of TDKR, him being absent due to his personal failure with Dent and Rachael makes sense.

But it totally deflates the ending speech Gordon gives in the end of TDK. You're given a sense that Bruce has now truly embodied "The Dark Knight" of Gotham, doing the work no one else is willing to do, despite the scrutiny of the public, because "He can take it."

After watching TDKR, we find out he really couldn't take it.

Exactly. The 8-year hiatus is not just a betrayal of the comic-book Batman, whose rich history and rogues gallery has been thrown out the window. It's a betrayal of the Batman that has been set up in this continuity. He wasn't even fully "the Batman" until the end of the Dark Knight, and even then he hadn't even got the Batcave.

The speeches by both Joker and Gordon at the end of TDK outlined the fact that Batman was going to have a very busy future, but it turns out not. He was "at home, washing his tights", to quote Jack Nicholson.

His willingness to cut Alfred out of his life without hesitation is also a bit of a departure from the character who had been developed in the first two films.

Actually thinking about it, I think I would have preferred it if, instead of giving up being Batman, he had gave up being Bruce Wayne. After the end of TDK he completely throws himself into his work as Batman which with the Dent Act in full force, is slowly becoming more and more obsolete. He becomes a far more tortured and monomaniac Batman at the start which eventually leads to his crushing defeat by Bane. I think this would have made his arc a little more cleaner and direct as he learns to be Bruce Wayne again. Also his eventual rise from the pit and his retirement at the end would have had much more of an impact since he didn't have to both "rise" or "retire" twice in the same film.

Also Alfred's departure would have made a hell of a lot more sense if he was trying to shake sense into a disturbed Batman who is trying to push everybody away rather than Bruce Wayne who was trying to become Batman again for the good of the bloody city. I mean seriously Alfred what the hell?

That's more along the lines of what we should have gotten. That's the type of story I thought we were promised at the end of TDK.

 

[da3dl3us]

To be honest, I was under the impression the 8 year hiatus would have taken place midway through the movie. I figured the movie would open up a few unknown number of years of active duty Batman, who then faces Bane, gets broken, then the 8 years would pass before his return.

 

[Drunkard Esq.]

To be honest, I was under the impression the 8 year hiatus would have taken place midway through the movie. I figured the movie would open up a few unknown number of years of active duty Batman, who then faces Bane, gets broken, then the 8 years would pass before his return.

That would certainly have made more sense and was what I envisioned myself when the 8-years was first annouced.

Plus an eight year gap would have been more of a realistic time frame for Batman to recover from a spinal injury and hitch-hike home from Bane's prison.

I mean, in 8 years he hadn't recovered from the fall (after which he could run, albiet with a limp) at the end of TDK, yet we're supposed to believe that he could recover from a spinal injury, fall mulitple times from a height with a rope around his waist and thanks to Tom Conti's magic hands he's back in the saddle in a manner of weeks/months.

 

[Bruce Malone]

Here's the thing did Gotham really need Batman after the Dent act? Would it really be worth it for a broken man to night in night prowl what is now apparently a remarkably safe city?

Remember how blake joked that gotham has become so safe cops would have to spend their time tracking down people violating library fees now?

The relation gotham and batman have is that gotham really is a cess pit of crime without that element i think batman would indeed be lost and wondering if he's needed.

 

[J.Howlett]

In Nolan's defense, it's stated that the last CONFIRMED sighting of the Batman was on the night Dent died.

That doesn't technically mean he quit that night.

 

[Golgo-13]

We don't know for sure if the LAST time he donned the cowl was the night Dent died. We know that that was the last KNOWN sighting of the Batman.

For me, it seems like he continued until the Harvey Dent Act was signed -- probably a month or two after The Dark Knight.

When he is in the batcave, Alfred says "You haven't been down here in some time" (something to this effect) -- and seeing as how the cave was re-built AFTER The Dark Knight I'm lead to believe that he was Batman for at LEAST a little longer after that film...

-R

Yeah, i picked up on that line too. The mansion would not have been finished until after the events of TDK. What i took from that line was that he would just spend hours and hours down there, like a kid locked in his room playing with his toys, etc. Doesn't mean he left the cave as Batman.

I don't mind the 8 year hiatus, it's just the execution of it. The cane injuries according to the film makers were a direct result of his last fight with Joker and Two-Face. It's a little hard to beleive that someone would be injured for 8 years like that. So according to the film makers, if he did continue going out as Batman for a short time after the end of TDK, he would have been limping then too......

 

[Bruce Malone]

Yes also if he really did retire right after dent dies why did they continue with the rebuilding of the batcave? The computer set up, the raised vehicles platform, the batsuit container?

There's no way they would continue building that up if he straight retired then.

 

[da3dl3us]

I don't mind the 8 year hiatus, it's just the execution of it. The cane injuries according to the film makers were a direct result of his last fight with Joker and Two-Face.

What's the source of that? Just that I never came across that explaination for the cane.

I guess I'm coming to terms with the hiatus with the following:

1. As J.Howlett stated, no confirmed sighting doesn't mean no urban legend sightings. Maybe Bruce was still out there fighting initially and hung the towel sometime in those 8 years.

2. When Gordon said "He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight.", Bruce did return when Gotham really needed him. Bane was that reason and he did return.

 

[Spiderine]

That would certainly have made more sense and was what I envisioned myself when the 8-years was first annouced.

Plus an eight year gap would have been more of a realistic time frame for Batman to recover from a spinal injury and hitch-hike home from Bane's prison.

I mean, in 8 years he hadn't recovered from the fall (after which he could run, albiet with a limp) at the end of TDK, yet we're supposed to believe that he could recover from a spinal injury, fall mulitple times from a height with a rope around his waist and thanks to Tom Conti's magic hands he's back in the saddle in a manner of weeks/months.

I didn't think that the 8 year gap would have happened after his encounter with Bane breaking his back because it would of allowed an awful lot of time to pass for Bane to run amuck in Gotham while Bats would be incapacitated. Especially with the LOS involved. Personally I didn't like the 8 year time frame. Gotham was crime free with no major villains causing problems which makes me wonder why the LOS continued with plans to destroy it.