Are the gods in Marvel, really gods?

[TheCorpulent1]

The DC versions seem more powerful overall to me.

 

[Scourge2099]

They're powered by the worship of their followers though. It's why Athena and Ares managed to pull that coup against Zeus and Hades. I don't think the Marvel gods have that problem.

 

[Anubis]

I think it's a case by case bases. Ares, Athena, and some of the other God's who have managed to change themselves up in order to get more followers without them actually realizing it are probably more powerful. But the Asgardian Pantheon doesn't seem anywhere near as powerful as their Marvel Counterpart. Hell, Zeus doesn't seem to be all that powerful either at DC.

 

[Scourge2099]

I think it's a case by case bases. Ares, Athena, and some of the other God's who have managed to change themselves up in order to get more followers without them actually realizing it are probably more powerful. But the Asgardian Pantheon doesn't seem anywhere near as powerful as their Marvel Counterpart. Hell, Zeus doesn't seem to be all that powerful either at DC.

Didn't Athena gain more followers through the rise of technology or something like that ? Ares makes sense because there's always gonna be war so he'll never run out of followers.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, Marvel's are definitely more consistent. Marvel's Hercules is also way better than DC's.

 

[Scourge2099]

Does DC have their version of Thor ?

 

[The Question]

Does DC have their version of Thor ?

Yeah, but he just putters around Asgard and slays trolls. Almost never goes to Earth.

 

[Anubis]

Yeah, he's closer to the Myths really. Red hair and everything.

 

[Scourge2099]

That's lame. I recall reading in the Norse Sagas that Thor loved humanity the most out of the Asgardians. You'd think he'd at least visit Midgard every once in a while. Maybe he's just confused about the multiple Earths.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, he's closer to the Myths really. Red hair and everything.

He's certainly as dumb as the mythological version.

 

[Anubis]

True. I loved him and Loki in Sandman.

 

[The Question]

He's certainly as dumb as the mythological version.

Hey. Be fair. Marvel Thor was dumb once upon a time. He just got character development.

 

[Scourge2099]

Here's something that's been bothering me about the DC Asgardians. How can they still exist when the New Gods came from them ?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Marvel's Thor wasn't dumb, he was just as much of an ass as the rest of the Asgardians before Odin straightened him out. Marvel's version has always had a lot more traditionally heroic attributes than the myths' version, who was like the ancient Norse equivalent of a steroid-pumping beefcake. All strength and bluster, no brains.

 

[The Question]

Here's something that's been bothering me about the DC Asgardians. How can they still exist when the New Gods came from them ?

They didn't, though. When Jack Kirby was at Marvel, his plan was to have the New Gods come after a Ragnarok storyline in Thor. Over at DC, the come from the gods from the Universe before the current one.

Marvel's Thor wasn't dumb, he was just as much of an ass as the rest of the Asgardians before Odin straightened him out. Marvel's version has always had a lot more traditionally heroic attributes than the myths' version, who was like the ancient Norse equivalent of a steroid-pumping beefcake. All strength and bluster, no brains.

All the flashbacks with Thor I've seen showed him having all the standard dumb ass jock traits pre-Blake years.

 

[Scourge2099]

Oh ok. That makes a lot more sense.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

All the flashbacks with Thor I've seen showed him having all the standard dumb ass jock traits pre-Blake years.

I have absolutely no idea which flashbacks you've seen, but they must have been from some kind of bizarro version of Marvel's comics. Marvel's Thor has never been dumb, he's just been arrogant and full of himself. The only things I can think of where he might've come off as a little jockish are Loki, for which the flashbacks are suspect since they're from Loki's perspective, and Son of Asgard, which primarily cast him that way to differentiate him from the more cerebral, strategy-minded Balder.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

It was all explained in Thor Annual #10. The "forces of the cosmos" Q is talking about is actually a force native to all planets. On Earth, it's called the Demiurge, which Gaia either used or mated with to create Atum/Demagorge as a means of wiping out her fellow gods in order to make Earth safe for mankind. That's why Demagorge is called "the god-eater." 'Cause he literally eats gods. I think he's also supposed to be the Atum of Egyptian mythology, but I don't think the comics were ever 100% clear on that.

This stuff all comes from the late '70s/early '80s, back when all the other pantheons of gods were popping up as the Celestials' Fourth Host came to judge Earth. Tons of groundwork for the gods was laid then. We learn about Odin, Zeus, and the other leaders of the gods forming the Council Elite of Godheads (which we've seen a lot of lately in Incredible Hercules and Prince of Power) as a means of combating the Celestials after they met the Third Host a thousand years ago, Thor learns that Gaia is his real mother, the Destroyer (powered by every Asgardian soul except Thor's) gets owned by the Celestials, the concept of the gods going through death/rebirth cycles is introduced, we learn that energy from one pantheon can be donated to resurrect other gods, and some other stuff. Also, they make it clear that the gods after the Elder Gods had their appearances molded by the thoughts of humans, but their power is not directly tied to the humans in the sense that more worship = more power. Although, fun fact, Thor (and any other god) can mystically hear whenever someone is praying to him. Good times.

What about Mephisto / Lucifer / "God" / Zadkiel, Uriel, etc, etc. ? Where do they fall? I remember reading the end of the Ghost Rider run when Dan Ketch destroyed the gates of Heaven and Thor looked up and said something like, "Something is stirring" or something to that regard.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

A similary themed topic I created a while back as to the Origins of the power of Mutants, with input on Celestials, etc:

Click here: http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=324930

 

[TheCorpulent1]

What about Mephisto / Lucifer / "God" / Zadkiel, Uriel, etc, etc. ? Where do they fall? I remember reading the end of the Ghost Rider run when Dan Ketch destroyed the gates of Heaven and Thor looked up and said something like, "Something is stirring" or something to that regard.

Thor acknowledges that there is a power greater even than himself and his fellow gods. He's talked to some priests and never seems to begrudge them their faith in what they (and apparently Thor) believe is a supreme God. Granted, this is all from his more enlightened modern-day interpretation. I shudder to think how he must've reacted back in the 1100s or so when he realized his followers were abandoning him for some upstart "supreme" God.

The Lucifer/Mephisto divide has always confused the hell out of me. Some things seem to indicate that Mephisto is the analogue for Satan/Lucifer in Marvel, others seem to indicate that there's a "true" Satan, others indicate that there are just a bunch of other demons (like Mephisto) who've called themselves "Satan" or "Lucifer," etc. It's a big mess.

Hell itself in the Marvel universe seems to be some kind of amalgam of all versions of hell, both mythical and theological, though. There are portals leading to all the different underworld realms, and there have been consortiums of demons who've governed various parts of it. Limbo (Illyana and Belasco's, I mean, not Immortus') also seems to be connected to the hell realms.

 

[MarvelWarrior]

I'm loving the info I'm getting from you guys, I greatly appreciate it. What would you guys classify Hulk as since he can throw down with gods?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

A really powerful human being. The gods are unique; that's not to say they're necessarily more powerful than any other being can possibly be. In fact, we know from various comics that there are as powerful beings (the Hulk, Gladiator, Beta Ray Bill before receiving Stormbreaker) and more powerful beings (the Sentry/Void, the Celestials, Galactus) out there.

 

[The Question]

Although, I would think that Galactus, at least, has a lot more in common with Thor than he does with The Hulk in terms of his nature.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Could be. His true nature is pretty vague, though. He's supposedly an energy being, which I guess is why he can seemingly deal in magic--it's just another kind of energy to him. Beings up at that level of cosmic power and abstract personifications and such all seem to straddle the worlds of science and magic.

The Celestials' power is also either magical in some way or is so advanced that it's indistinguishable from magic, as evidenced by their creations, the Eternals, being on par with gods in a lot of ways. Lately, they've even been considered as much gods, albeit with a slightly different origin, as any of the mythological pantheons. Incredible Hercules showed that they've got a spot on the Council Elite, and they had a representative on Hercules' God Squad during Secret Invasion.

 

[The Question]

Could be. His true nature is pretty vague, though. He's supposedly an energy being, which I guess is why he can seemingly deal in magic--it's just another kind of energy to him. Beings up at that level of cosmic power and abstract personifications and such all seem to straddle the worlds of science and magic.

I just meant, y'know, formed from the stuff of creation, one of the basic force of the universe... a lot more god-like than anything else.