Avengers 1-4 vs The Dark Knight Trilogy

TDKT for me. AOU is the worst movie out of them all by some way.

Batman Begins and The Avengers are around on par for me.

TDK is still the best CBM ever so a shame much as I love IW it still loses to the best in the genre.

Endgame and TDKR for me both share the same good points and bad points so would say they are equal also but I slightly prefer TDKR.
 
The Avengers win easily. They are the peaks of something that is actually historical in the film world and they deliver so much of the good parts of comics that makes them stand out among other films in the big action genre. They are not afraid to embrace the insane and dumb aspects of grand superhero stories and by doing that it actually works. The MCU also has far better character work which helps a ton for the Avengers movies when the stakes are high and are lost.

The TDKT is far more dull and can't compete with other more grounded works because it's not particularly well written. I find it especially funny how many people gush over the Joker despite that he's so poorly written and just elevated by a fantastic performance. The trilogy even gets significantly beaten by the Daredevil TV show, where characters can actually be normal, or even smart, while Goyer (I mostly blame him based on what he's done on other movies as well) can't write a smart villain and has to resort to making everyone else complete idiots. And people still have the stomach to say that TDK is a great crime drama, despite that good crime dramas actually have plots that make sense rather than fall apart at the simplest scrutiny. They should throw The Joker in with the Police Academy. They wouldn't do any worse than the Gotham PD but at least it would be entertaining when they fail.
 
The Dark Knight Trilogy by far. And yes, I think Rises is fantastic. Sure, it's not perfect, but I still think it's amazing.

Batman Begins and The Dark Knight alone, imo, are better than any MCU movie and even TDKR to an extent, although I do acknowledge it has some minor flaws. I still love the MCU, but yeah.
 
Batman Begins 8
The Dark Knight 9
The Dark Knight Rises 7.5

Average = 8.17

Avengers 8
Age of Ultron 7
Infinity War 9
Endgame 9

Average = 8.25

So Avengers takes it but it couldn't be much closer (0.08 in it)
 
Batmannerism said:
Have we done an Age of Ultron vs Dark Knight Rises thread yet? Both arguably the weakest films in their series.

I would put Age of Ultron slightly above Rises.

Rises is a film with immense ambition, but it falls short of the greatness that TDK achieved- the one thing that I think it deserves the most credit for is giving Batman an ending ( let's be honest, he's only in a proportionally small amount of the film).

Age of Ultron has similar problems, but doesn't unravel as much on rewatches - whereas Rises has plot contrivances that break the suspension of disbelief Ultron merely has mediocre storytelling and a wealth characterization of the main villain - in comparison Bane is truly nasty and menacing as a physical presence, although the muffled voice doesn't work for me.
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TDKR blows AOU out of the water easily (better story, better character development, better villain by far)

AOU also falls short of the of the first Avengers way more than Rises does of the Dark Knight.
 
The thing for me is, TDKT absolutely wipes the Avengers films from a production value and cinematography standpoint alone. They are just far more immersive to me because of the commitment to practical setpieces and the elegant, near-invisible use of CGI. Sure, it's not a bad thing that the Avengers embraced the out there elements of the comic book world, but the trade off is the films often look obviously green-screened. Sure, the compositing has gotten a lot better since the era of the Star Wars prequels, but I can still tell when I'm looking at green screen shots, or when RDJ's face is awkwardly placed into a CG Iron Man suit, and it becomes really distracting/numbing after a while. And as a result of relying so much on green screen, you end up with really bland, flat cinematography- this is especially apparent in IW/Endgame.

I'm not taking anything away from what the MCU/Avengers films achieved on a pop culture level-- that is undeniable, but if I'm comparing the two in terms of being movies, it's not even a competition to me. I'm not saying the TDKT movies don't have its flaws. They definitely do, and not just Rises, but all of them. The difference to me is the flaws and quirks with those films can be a part of the charm for me, because they feel lovingly handcrafted and not like they were made in a computer.

Ironically, while Raimi's Spider-Man films are what kind of helped set the tone for the MCU, I actually think Nolan's trilogy ultimately has more in common with the Raimi films than the MCU does. Even with the wildly different tones, they both have that same type of emotional earnestness and thematic power that's reminiscent of the Donner Superman films. They both honor the essence of the comics while fully embracing the "movie" part of comic book movie. And while the CG of Raimi's films definitely can be dated at times, I still can't think of a single visual in any of the Avengers films that can compete with how breathtaking and visceral the webslinging sequences were for the time. That's a problem, for me.
 
the TDKT movies and the Raimi trilogy are the 2 franchises that i think still stand above the rest for me personally. I think TDKT being the best comic book movie trilogy of all time is not hard to understand. From the story, to character development, to the cinematography, to the music and the tone, there is nothing like them in the genre. the Raimi films feel like their own thing, and there's also nothing like them in the genre either. I get that MCU is huge and people are obsessed with it, and of course Im happy about it. I'm an MCU fan as well! But for me as a whole, I'd rather watch TDKT or the Raimi movies any day of the week. Not sure how else to say this, but I could sum it up by saying there's a pulse in those films, while the MCU films can at times feel very manufactured. one of the many reasons I'm not a big fan of the MCU Spider-Man, but thats for another time.
 
Gothamsknight said:
the TDKT movies and the Raimi trilogy are the 2 franchises that i think still stand above the rest for me personally. I think TDKT being the best comic book movie trilogy of all time is not hard to understand. From the story, to character development, to the cinematography, to the music and the tone, there is nothing like them in the genre. the Raimi films feel like their own thing, and there's also nothing like them in the genre either. I get that MCU is huge and people are obsessed with it, and of course Im happy about it. I'm an MCU fan as well! But for me as a whole, I'd rather watch TDKT or the Raimi movies any day of the week. Not sure how else to say this, but I could sum it up by saying there's a pulse in those films, while the MCU films can at times feel very manufactured. one of the many reasons I'm not a big fan of the MCU Spider-Man, but thats for another time.
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I feel ya. I'm glad more people are OK with admitting this now.

Like, I enjoyed MCU. I paid to see pretty all of them (minus Ant-Man and the Wasp) in theaters. I've given them a lot of my money and contributed to their success, and they've been fun excuses to get together with my friends and go to the movies because they're a safe bet- mediocre at worst, never offensively bad. But I think it's fair to say that while they're fun movies, many of them are quite forgettable. With some notable exceptions of course (Guardians, Winter Soldier, Ragnarok, etc).

I liken it to 24. In the early 00s, 24 and The Sopranos were my two favorite shows. And when 24 was good, it was really damn good! The constant cliffhanger format of the show made it addictive AF and kept you tuning in, no matter how wacky it got. Just like like the MCU. But at the end of the day, I knew it had become more of a guilty pleasure (especially in later seasons) and not something that could really stand up to some of the heavyweights of the time like The Sopranos. So there's nothing wrong with enjoying both, but noting the difference. And I think in both cases, whether it's a show with 24 episode vs 12 episode seasons, or a film series with 3 entries vs. 23, there is a diluted "quantity over quality" thing that can happen when there's just more of something. While the other becomes more rarefied and special.
 
TDK trilogy are great films but are they really great CBM based on Batman? They just don't really feel much like Batman to me while the MCU films actually feel like marvel comics even if not completely accurate.

I ain't looking for award worthy films but cbm that actually embraces the fantastical elements and the characters to actually resemble themselves from the source material
 
Erzengel said:
If I had to buy 8K or 16K or whatever the next series of home viewing is, I'd buy Avengers and I'm saying that series scratches my particular itch. I like TDKT but Avengers gives me what I want.
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That's totally fair, everyone's got their preferences. But one thing to keep in mind is that for VFX-heavy films like The Avengers ones, they're only working with a 2K master, because rendering effects in anything higher costs too much. So 4k releases (and beyond) wouldn't yield much of an improvement over what you already own.

IncognitoX said:
TDK trilogy are great films but are they really great CBM based on Batman? They just don't really feel much like Batman to me while the MCU films actually feel like marvel comics even if not completely accurate.

I ain't looking for award worthy films but cbm that actually embraces the fantastical elements and the characters to actually resemble themselves from the source material
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I'd argue, yes they are. But you have to take into account that Batman is a character with a rich and varied history, and many different interpretations within the source material. At this point I think the constant reinvention of the myth is a big part of the whole appeal of the character. And for a series to focus on the more "grounded" aspect on the character is valid IMO, because a big part of his appeal is that he's a human being with no superpowers. To me Burton and Nolan's takes are equally as valid. And even Schumacher's really, if you look at those as representations of the comics of the 50s and 60s.
 
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Adhesive Boy said:
Goyer (I mostly blame him based on what he's done on other movies as well) can't write a smart villain and has to resort to making everyone else complete idiots.
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Tony and Bruce were pretty dumb and at least heavily contributed to their own problems in Age of Ultron.

The Batman movies were, Two-Face and Catwoman aside, a bit too moralistically black-and-white but that's a lot better than in the Avengers movies the Hulk and the Scarlet Witch abruptly flipflopping from villain to hero.
 
Bruce Banner and Tony weren't necessarily dumb in AOU. They made mistakes and miscalculations but not because they were idiots and it's not like they were dealing with simple stuff
 
IncognitoX said:
I'll take the Raimi Spider-Man and Captain America trilogies over TDK trilogy
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You thought Civil War was a good conclusion to Captain America? A conclusive enough conclusion with Captain America ending up a renegade fugitive (and/but more or less declaring that he will team up with Iron Man again eventually) and Bucky Barnes free to be in hibernation (until he wasn't)?

IncognitoX said:
Bruce Banner and Tony weren't necessarily dumb in AOU. They made mistakes and miscalculations but not because they were idiots and it's not like they were dealing with simple stuff
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They went off to do something on their own, Tony convincing Bruce after a few minutes of pressuring and thinking about it (knowing that others in the team wouldn't approve and despite relying on them being assured that they're much more right) and then after another few minutes it went against them to be destructive. And Tony later decided to again be risky and further raise the stakes and dangers, though that time it worked.
 
BatLobster said:
That's totally fair, everyone's got their preferences. But one thing to keep in mind is that for VFX-heavy films like The Avengers ones, they're only working with a 2K master, because rendering effects in anything higher costs too much. So 4k releases (and beyond) wouldn't yield much of an improvement over what you already own.
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Avengers also benefit from the interconnectivity of the MCU. So by the time of IW & EG, you're investigated in 2 dozen characters. It's an unfair advantage but it is what it is.
 
Herofan said:
You thought Civil War was a good conclusion to Captain America? A conclusive enough conclusion with Captain America ending up a renegade fugitive (and/but more or less declaring that he will team up with Iron Man again eventually) and Bucky Barnes free to be in hibernation (until he wasn't)?



They went off to do something on their own, Tony convincing Bruce after a few minutes of pressuring and thinking about it (knowing that others in the team wouldn't approve and despite relying on them being assured that they're much more right) and then after another few minutes it went against them to be destructive. And Tony later decided to again be risky and further raise the stakes and dangers, though that time it worked.
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Not as a conclusion but 3 films together as a whole
 
Erzengel said:
If I had to buy 8K or 16K or whatever the next series of home viewing is, I'd buy Avengers and I'm saying that series scratches my particular itch. I like TDKT but Avengers gives me what I want.
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Oh, don't give Hollywood ideas. I'm still trying to get caught up on 4K.
 
Of all of them, Batman Begins is the strongest film, so am going with TDK trilogy. As far as weaker entries in both, Rises beats Ultron, so it's still TDK trilogy for me.
 
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