Avengers 1-4 vs The Dark Knight Trilogy

[Zorro]

Shouldn't this thread be Dark Knight Trilogy vs Raimi's Spider-Man Trillogy vs Iron Man Trilogy vs Captain America Trilogy? I've been back and forth in this thread and realized they shouldn't even be compared since they're different type of cbm and on is a continuing series with much more development because of the mcu

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

I personally prefer TDKT,

But objectively...hard to argue with the most successful movie/franchise ever. TDK was a cultural phenomenon, but Avengers, Infinity War and Endgame all were.

 

[Captain Tired]

I mean it's a little easier when you've had countless movies, each based on comic-book properties with their own built-in fanbases, leading up to this one epic battle royale of superhero movies. TDKT, on the other hand, came right out of the blue and with the very poor stink of Batman & Robin to still shake off. It isn't quite comparable with the success of the original Star Wars trilogy, but it's still a damn sight closer than the Avengers quadrilogy in question. Also I'd say TDKR was also a cultural phenomena, coming off the back of TDK.

There's also the matter of Batman Begins and The Dark Knight (and arguably TDKR), each being considered game changers with respects to the comic book genre as a whole. The four Avengers movies might also be considered game changers, but if they are, it's surely only with respects to the MCU itself, and not the wider comic-book movie genre.

 

[Flint Marko]

I enjoy and respect the bad place out of the first two Nolan movies but this isn’t a contest. The Avengers movies feel like comic books brought to life in the best way possible and as a lifelong fan of comics that’s almost impossible to beat.

 

[Erzengel]

The four Avengers movies might also be considered game changers, but if they are, it's surely only with respects to the MCU itself, and not the wider comic-book movie genre.

The first Avengers movie definitely is a game changer. I think any movie that inspires other Studios to try and copy their formula not just with comic book heroes but other non comic book characters to try and capitalize on said success.

And then you follow up with the highest grossing movie of all time which is now a comic book movie, how does not spread through the whole genre?

 

[mclay18]

I personally find it odd that TDKR gets so much flack for giving Bruce basically the same ending that Steve got in Endgame.

I think a lot of people thought Bruce's ending in TDKR would mirror Tony's in Endgame and were disappointed with that.

Some characters deserve a bit of happiness after all they've been through.

 

[Filmfreak]

What matters most is the execution. Tony's death had zero effect on me. It felt like it happened for the sake of it and because RDJ's contract had ended in an already bloated movie.

You can go either way as long as you sell properly it to the audience and TDKR sold it perfectly.

 

[Flint Marko]

You can go either way as long as you sell properly it to the audience and TDKR sold it perfectly.

Did they though? Rises was wildly successful but it's also comfortably viewed as the worst of the trilogy. Even on it's own terms it fell short to a not-insignificant amount of people.

 

[The Joker]

I don't believe that though. Never have. I've never seen any stats that show TDKR didn't sell itself extremely well to audiences overall. Seen as the weakest of the trilogy? Sure. But this is not a Spider-Man 3 or X-Men 3 scenario where the audience scores are significantly lesser compared to the predecessors.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I personally find it odd that TDKR gets so much flack for giving Bruce basically the same ending that Steve got in Endgame.

Actually, I didn't have an issue with Bruce waking away with Selena. I have many issues with the movie, but that's not one of them.

 

[Flint Marko]

I don't believe that though. Never have. I've never seen any stats that show TDKR didn't sell itself extremely well to audiences overall. Seen as the weakest of the trilogy? Sure. But this is not a Spider-Man 3 or X-Men 3 scenario where the audience scores are significantly lesser compared to the predecessors.

Sure but that's not what I was saying. Rises being widely viewed as the weakest of the trilogy means it didn't sell itself "perfectly" as stated.

 

[The Joker]

Sure but that's not what I was saying. Rises being widely viewed as the weakest of the trilogy means it didn't sell itself "perfectly" as stated.

Ok fair enough. I thought this was the age old accusation that it was viewed as a Spider-Man 3/X-Men 3 situation.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Shouldn't this thread be Dark Knight Trilogy vs Raimi's Spider-Man Trillogy vs Iron Man Trilogy vs Captain America Trilogy? I've been back and forth in this thread and realized they shouldn't even be compared since they're different type of cbm and on is a continuing series with much more development because of the mcu

That would just divide the Marvel fanbase allowing The Dark Knight Trilogy to unfairly dominate.

Plus the only trilogy outside of Avengers with any chance of beating TDKT is the Raimi trilogy.

 

[Erzengel]

Plus the only trilogy outside of Avengers with any chance of beating TDKT is the Raimi trilogy.

Captain America Trilogy did all right on here surprisingly.

Better Trilogy: TDK or Captain America?

 

[Brother Jack]

Sure but that's not what I was saying. Rises being widely viewed as the weakest of the trilogy means it didn't sell itself "perfectly" as stated.

I don't think that's generally true. Begins is more often called the least of the three, at least as far as I've seen. The ratings on RT, IMDb, and Metacritic all point to Rises being the second best.

 

[Erzengel]

Most best of lists usually have Begins more often than Rises.

I think Begins has the misfortune of being released at a time when comic book movies for the most part weren't as popular with critics.

 

[Filmfreak]

I don't think that's generally true. Begins is more often called the least of the three, at least as far as I've seen. The ratings on RT, IMDb, and Metacritic all point to Rises being the second best.

Exactly. And TDKR has better reviews than Batman Begins in most sites as well. I keep hearing it's considerd the worst but I'm not seeing that in most places I look.

One thing that is important to keep in mind is that the quality between the so called "weak links" in a series of films varies. You can have a Spider-Man 3 and you can have a Return of the Jedi and frankly most evidence supports that TDKR is neither. The other thing that matters is where it lands compared to other film series. Personally not only do I think that all films in the trilogy are of pretty similar quality overall but I do rank them higher than anything the MCU has ever given us.

That being said I do understand many of the criticisms and I respect many arguments against it. At the end of the day what matters is whether something strikes a chord with you or not. After all most things are subjective and that's the beauty of it.

 

[psylockolussus]

Avengers. It doesn't bore me.

 

[mclay18]

When you look at what Batman Begins did for superhero movies in general, the Avengers franchise (nay, the MCU) owes a lot to Nolan.

If Iron Man didn't work the way it had, there would be no Avengers juggernaut like what we have now.

So I'm choosing the TDK trilogy.

 

[BatLobster]

The thing is...every time a new great comic book film comes along, you always see polls pitting it against TDK or the TDK Trilogy. The fact that it's still used as a yardstick tells you a lot about its status.

Also, I think it's fair to say TDKR became pretty iconic in its own right. I was just reading an article about how Bane masks are selling like crazy right now. We're 8 years out from the movie at this point. That's saying something.

Bane Mask Business Booms Amid Pandemic

Thanos and Loki were good villains and 2 of Marvel's best, but I don't think either of them can really hold a candle to Joker or Bane in terms of pop culture staying power.

 

[Erzengel]

Thanos Has Been Crowned The World's Most Popular Movie Villain

Bracket Madness: Loki wins the Marvel Cinematic Universe best character challenge

When I was at ComicCon, the line for Loki (Tom Hiddleston) was huge. Loki has been around since 2011, a year longer than Bane. He's been in 6 movies and has a series coming out on Disney+. And he could almost be a Teen Beat cover guy with all the girls that were fawning over him at the con I went to.

I'd be the first to admit, that yeah but he has been in 6 movies and a series to be popular but like I said in an earlier post, it is what it is. However, I wouldn't be as dismissive of Loki or even Thanos in terms of staying power. Being associated with movies on the scale of the Avengers, I would think would make people remember you.

 

[BatLobster]

Thanos Has Been Crowned The World's Most Popular Movie Villain

Bracket Madness: Loki wins the Marvel Cinematic Universe best character challenge

When I was at ComicCon, the line for Loki (Tom Hiddleston) was huge. Loki has been around since 2011, a year longer than Bane. He's been in 6 movies and has a series coming out on Disney+. And he could almost be a Teen Beat cover guy with all the girls that were fawning over him at the con I went to.

I'd be the first to admit, that yeah but he has been in 6 movies and a series to be popular but like I said in an earlier post, it is what it is. However, I wouldn't be as dismissive of Loki or even Thanos in terms of staying power. Being associated with movies on the scale of the Avengers, I would think would make people remember you.

That's completely fair. I don't want to dismiss them. But yeah, I guess I'm coming from a place of appreciating how much impact the characters were able to make via just one film appearance. With Bane in particular, because he was far from an A-list villain before TDKR. To me, that says something about the quality of the characterizations, performances and films they're in. Ledger's Joker gets talked about alongside Hannibal Lecter and Darth Vader regularly as one of the greatest screen villains of all time.

It doesn't take anything away from Thanos and Loki's popularity and them being great comic book movie villains. I thought what Brolin did with Thanos was fantastic. I just think it's almost an unfair fight, because Batman already has the most iconic villains in comics, and we've had some incredible actors give really specific, memorable performances as them. From what I've observed, it crosses over a bit more into the mainstream in terms of the pop culture staying power, quotability, etc. That's just my take though.

 

[Flint Marko]

Staying power is obviously TBD but I’d point out Thanos wasn’t well known either and entered the cultural lexicon after his one appearance in Infinity War. It’s been two years and you still can’t throw a rock on Twitter or reddit without coming across a Thanos reference.

 

[Sithborg]

Ok fair enough. I thought this was the age old accusation that it was viewed as a Spider-Man 3/X-Men 3 situation.

The internet loves exaggeration. Mediocre movies are labeled "worst movie ever".

 

[Erzengel]

That's completely fair. I don't want to dismiss them. But yeah, I guess I'm coming from a place of appreciating how much impact the characters were able to make via just one film appearance. With Bane in particular, because he was far from an A-list villain before TDKR. To me, that says something about the quality of the characterizations, performances and films they're in. Ledger's Joker gets talked about alongside Hannibal Lecter and Darth Vader regularly as one of the greatest screen villains of all time.

It doesn't take anything away from Thanos and Loki's popularity and them being great comic book movie villains. I thought what Brolin did with Thanos was fantastic. I just think it's almost an unfair fight, because Batman already has the most iconic villains in comics, and we've had some incredible actors give really specific, memorable performances as them. From what I've observed, it crosses over a bit more into the mainstream in terms of the pop culture staying power, quotability, etc. That's just my take though.

I guess it just depends on the circles we travel in. If you're not really a big Marvel fan, and I'm not sure if you are or not, as I've only really seen you in Batman & Star Wars threads and forums, so if you're not invested, then maybe you aren't seeing all the cross overs. Thanos has been in cartoons like the Simpsons, think a song by Eminem, just off the top of my head?

But in the end, I don't think there's really a way to "gauge" pop culture staying power and quotability with some of these characters.