Infinity War Avengers: Infinity War SPOILER User Review Thread - Part 1

[SaiWong]

Hi,

I just come back from watching the movie and really enjoyed it. However, the only thing
I didn't like was how they handled Vision. He came across so weak and feeble, and played
the part of the damsel in distress that needed everyone else to save him. I wish in was
more powerful in the movies.


Anyway some questions.... Groot used his arm to make Thor's new hammer Stormbreaker .So does this mean Groot is "worthy" ?

Also at the end when Thanos snaps his fingers ... Groot disappears into nothing....
so shouldn't the handle of Thors hammer also disappear (since it is Groots arm) ?

 

[Spider-Fan]

It's true that not all of the male characters have amazing roles (and Loki can be said to be used in a way that is somewhat similar to Gamora).

But the fact remains that there isn't a single female hero featured as prominently Tony, Thor, Starlord, Strange, and Spidey. Gamora has a prominent role, but she is the sacrificial victim.

So, is it really about PC equality, or is it about having maybe one female superhero with a role like Thor's, or Strange's, or Tony's?

The studio is clearly aware that they are lacking in that department, and that Captain Marvel will make a difference. Hopefully, other characters after that.

But the strongest negative reactions to the film I have personally seen have come from women who loved movies like Ragnarok and Black Panther. With regard to roles played by female characters in those films, the difference is pretty glaring. Characters like Valkyrie, Hela, Okoye and Shuri had much better roles in those films.

Thor, Hulk, Black Panther, Killmonger... those characters all had great roles also, so it's not one or the other.

Or perfect equality, for that matter. The featured characters in those two movies were Thor + Hulk, then T'challa + Killmonger.

I'm not saying that it negates the positive aspects of Infinity War, but I don't think that the concern can be dismissed as inconsequential either. Even from a monetary standpoint, it's not smart.

When these movies bring in a lot of women in the audience, it can have a huge impact. Ask James Cameron.

Avengers 4 will have larger roles for both Cap & Widow (straight from the writer's mouths), so right there Widow is going to have a prominent role. Captain Marvel will be there also, though her role I think will be more or less equal to Wanda's (I would argue Wanda had a major role as she is one of the select few in the movie that has a character arc).

 

[PacificBoy]

Gamora's role isn't bad per se, it's just...she reacts to things, and we get a bit of backstory in terms of how she ended up with Thanos. Thanos himself is sort of regretful about what he'll have to do, but never seems to truly mourn her. It's another means to an end.

Based on what's in the film, it feels like maybe there was some kind of father/daughter quasi reconciliation idea left on the cutting room floor. Something more cathartic. Something like that could have improved her role. After all, he's her father, despite what he's done...but her feelings about him don't ever change, her perspective never changes...she's just sort of along for the ride.

If is how she's going to go out, the character deserved a little more attention, not just to be a cog in Thanos' story.

Thanos does mourn for her. We see it when Mantis has him under mind control, and when he sorrowfully replies 'everything' to the simulacrum of little Gamora. But I do think Gamora could have been written a tad better in regard to the fridging element, where she's grist for the emotional mill to two men. Great performance from Zoe notwithstanding.

 

[The Guard]

It's a fast paced movie, but that said, Thanos has 2 moments where he reflects. After he does it, and after the snap when he is in the soul realm. He gets what he wants, but for him it is bittersweet as he remembers what it cost him. So he clearly mourns her.

I know, it's just not much.

 

[Dark Raven]

I have a feeling that Pepper Potts is going to look like this in the next movie:

 

[Spider-Fan]

I know, it's just not much.

I don't agree. It's also the literal first thought he has after he does it. He just completed his task, the thing he worked for all along...but the first thing he thinks about was Gamora. What more did you want?

 

[Scarecrow_King]

There's nothing that indicates Stormbreaker has the same worthiness enchantment that Mjolnir had, right?

 

[Spider-Fan]

There's nothing that indicates Stormbreaker has the same worthiness enchantment that Mjolnir had, right?

No, Stormbreaker appears to have no such enchantment.

 

[The Guard]

I don't agree. It's also the literal first thought he has after he does it. He just completed his task, the thing he worked for all along...but the first thing he thinks about was Gamora. What more did you want?

You don't have to agree.

I don't believe that checking off a box regarding something this important equals quality execution of a concept.

 

[Spider-Fan]

You don't have to agree.

I don't believe that checking off a box regarding something this important equals quality execution of a concept.

You didn't answer my question. You deflected.

 

[The Guard]

You didn't answer my question. You deflected.

I wanted a better developed and executed relationship and resolution between the two of them. Marvel felt it was important enough a concept to be developed over three films, but in the end, when it comes to Gamora and Thanos' actual intersection, they throw some basic concepts out there and it's just supposed to be powerful...because.

 

[parkerpete]

It's true that not all of the male characters have amazing roles (and Loki can be said to be used in a way that is somewhat similar to Gamora).

But the fact remains that there isn't a single female hero featured as prominently Tony, Thor, Starlord, Strange, and Spidey. Gamora has a prominent role, but she is the sacrificial victim.

So, is it really about PC equality, or is it about having maybe one female superhero with a role like Thor's, or Strange's, or Tony's?

The studio is clearly aware that they are lacking in that department, and that Captain Marvel will make a difference. Hopefully, other characters after that.

But the strongest negative reactions to the film I have personally seen have come from women who loved movies like Ragnarok and Black Panther. With regard to roles played by female characters in those films, the difference is pretty glaring. Characters like Valkyrie, Hela, Okoye and Shuri had much better roles in those films.

Thor, Hulk, Black Panther, Killmonger... those characters all had great roles also, so it's not one or the other.

Or perfect equality, for that matter. The featured characters in those two movies were Thor + Hulk, then T'challa + Killmonger.

I'm not saying that it negates the positive aspects of Infinity War, but I don't think that the concern can be dismissed as inconsequential either. Even from a monetary standpoint, it's not smart.

When these movies bring in a lot of women in the audience, it can have a huge impact. Ask James Cameron.

I would agree with this, except that I never looked at Gamora as a plot element. She was a character with a backstory and a will of her own that was tragically stuck in a cycle that she couldn't escape, and was motivated by her complex, traumatized sisterhood with Nebula. I felt invested in her as a character and not as a way to care about Peter. I felt far worse for HER than for Star-Lord when she died (although time will tell if her fate was permanent).

I also think that the focus on the major (male) heroes in this was somewhat leavened by Scarlet Witch, who was a powerful centerpiece of the earthbound section of the story. Much more central than Cap or Bruce.

And yes, Captain Marvel is very much on her way to add some 'balance' to this universe. The MCU seems headed in the right direction.

 

[Frankeh]

I thought Scarlet Witch had one of the best roles in this movie and she wasn't fridged.

She was also portrayed as like third-most-powerful behind Thor and Hulk. She single-handly saved the day from the digger things and she single-handly destroyed an Infinity Stone and kept Thanos at bay while doing it. If it wasn't for the Time Stone, Thanos' plan would've been finished.

 

[PacificBoy]

You don't have to agree.

I don't believe that checking off a box regarding something this important equals quality execution of a concept.

But you said he "never seems to truly mourn her" when Thanos clearly did with an empath relaying his inner thoughts and a revisit to the soul realm to recount what he lost, which was 'everything'. You weren't arguing the quality execution of the concept.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I wanted a better developed and well executed relationship and resolution between the two of them. They felt it was important enough to cross three films, but in the end, they throw some basic concepts out there and it's just supposed to be powerful...because.

Define better executed relationship/resolution. Thanos did what he had to do for his mission, sacrificing and betraying someone he loved in the process. He is shown to mourn his decision, and he tells Gamora (basically speaking to us, the audience) that his quest cost him everything (which it did...all his children are dead now, including the one he actually loved). What more did you want as a resolution to that?

 

[The Guard]

But you said he "never seems to truly mourn her" when Thanos clearly did with an empath relaying his inner thoughts and a revisit to the soul realm to recount what he lost, which was 'everything'. You weren't arguing the quality execution of the concept.

It should be fairly clear based on the way I'm discussing the character portrayals and their use within the film and story that my issue is one of quality execution.

"Truly:
to the fullest degree; genuinely or properly."

I don't feel that briefly looking sad is an appropriate portrayal of genuinely mourning someone that you really didn't want to lose.

 

[The Guard]

Define better executed relationship/resolution. Thanos did what he had to do for his mission, sacrificing and betraying someone he loved in the process. He is shown to mourn his decision, and he tells Gamora (basically speaking to us, the audience) that his quest cost him everything (which it did...all his children are dead now, including the one he actually loved). What more did you want as a resolution to that?

And it doesn't work for me. I feel like they're checking boxes and not properly developing or exploring things, which is a weakness of the film in general. And yes, there are a lot of characters, but they had decisions to make about what was important, and they chose this approach, which was to drop basic ideas into the story and expect that to have weight.

I've already said a bit about what would have been nice to see in terms of their relationship.

 

[Donner]

He didn't just look sad once. Mantis alluded that he was grieving when she had him under and after the snap, he told the child Gamora that his plan cost him everything. He was clearly mourning the entire time.

 

[Spider-Fan]

And it doesn't work for me. I feel like they're checking boxes and not properly developing or exploring things, which is a weakness of the film in general. And yes, there are a lot of characters, but they had decisions to make about what was important, and they chose this approach, which was to drop basic ideas into the story and expect that to have weight.

I've already said a bit about what would have been nice to see in terms of their relationship.

You realize this is a 2 part movie, correct? Further on your above post, Thanos says he regrets it...and was openly SOBBING when he did it. Call me crazy, but I think people when they cry and showing sadness. In this instance, sadness for what he was about to lose. This is then followed by a look of shock/denial once the deed is done.

Also, why do you think he was not answering Nebula during the fight? To spare her, or to spare admitting what he did to himself?

 

[Donner]

This is nitpicking at its worst.

 

[PacificBoy]

It should be fairly clear based on the way I'm discussing the character portrayals and their use within the film and story that my issue is one of quality execution.

"Truly:
to the fullest degree; genuinely or properly."

I don't feel that briefly looking sad is an appropriate portrayal of genuinely mourning someone that you really didn't want to lose.

Saying that Thanos briefly looked sad is outright incorrect though. In the thick of intense battle, Mantis gets hold of him, subdues him and is rocked back by his intense emotions, which she identifies as grief. Then we have Thanos in an interior moment after the snap being confronted by the ghost of his conscience, a simulacrum of little Gamora within the soul realm where he articulates the cost of his actions.

 

[Flint Marko]

I don't feel that briefly looking sad is an appropriate portrayal of genuinely mourning someone that you really didn't want to lose.

We once got into a debate where you literally argued the merits of "briefly looking sad" in a movie and how effective you felt that actually was.

I don't agree that someone experiencing terrible pain isn't a great cost, even if that pain is temporary, or we don't see the outcome of the act.

Double standards are fun.

 

[Murdock103]

I see something like this as well. It pays off Steve's guilt about the events of Civil War. And I think ultimately no one wants to see Pepper left alone and mourning after all the crap she's had to put up with.

I'm guessing A4 ends with a funeral AND a wedding.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong...but aren’t Tony and Pepper already married. When Strage turns up to recruit Tony I’m sure he says something like ‘on and congratulations on the wedding’ or something to that effect.

 

[javonstokess]

This is nitpicking at its worst.

Totally agree. Folks just can't enjoy nice things.

Scarlet Witch is a MAJOR character in the movie. She is also one of the most powerful individuals on-screen. She has a CLEAR motivational arc and isn't "fridged" or overlooked.

Gamora is a MAJOR character in the movie. She isn't fridged because she, knowing she could die at the drop of a hat, takes on Thanos and attempts to murder him. Her motivations are clear and, even if you ignore the 2 movies worth of backstory regarding her and Thanos, there is enough to go on to create an emotional investment within her movie. Even after her death, her presence is literally felt all the way to the last frame (even ignoring that there's a good chance she'll be reborn anyway).

Black Widow might not have had a "meaty" part, but she's also involved in some of the best "cheer worthy" parts of the movie (saving SW, taking on Proxima Midnight w/Okoyo). Her and Cap are clearly NOT the focus because they'll be the focus NEXT movie.

We all agree that Okoyo, even with limited scenes, was amazing.

The women were front and center. No one was "fridged". Stop it ya'll.

 

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