Infinity War Avengers: Infinity War SPOILER User Review Thread - Part 2

:up:

In IW, Star-Lord's reason for reacting/acting the way he did was clear and his emotions were easy to identify with. Anyone might have reacted the way he did. In fact, it would have been unrealistic for Quill to keep his s### together in that situation given what we know about his personality. He was the same way when he found out that Ego killed his mother.

Exactly. If Thanos had murdered Pepper it might have been a similar reaction from Tony.
 
yet when stark found out bucky killed his mother, he was very much willing to let zemo escape and kill him in rage. Just pointing out stark has had similar issues controlling his emotions.

bingo!
 
Saw it for the 3rd time yesterday... and there's still one thing I can't figure out...

How does Thor know to go to Wakanda after forging Stormbreaker???

Mmm. Now that he doesn't need the Bifrost to move from one place to another, maybe he acquired Heimdall's visions of realms too?
 
Yet when Stark found out Bucky killed his mother, he was very much willing to let Zemo escape and kill him in rage. Just pointing out Stark has had similar issues controlling his emotions.

Stark and Quill definitely are similar personalities.

But I'd argue that Stark's turn in the end of CW is pretty well-written and earned. The tragedy of Stark in that movie is that he spends the entire story trying to assume the role of 'responsible grown-up' within the Avengers due to his previous sins and mistakes. And then at the most crucial, inopportune time, the true nature of his parents' death is revealed in VIVID, VIDEOTAPED EVIDENCE and he completely regresses.

Quill should have grown by now, but that doesn't mean he should have grown so much that he can control himself when he finds out his girlfriend has been murdered. I actually had more problems with aspects of GotG2, when his stupid piloting competition with Rocket almost gets the entire team killed. I liked how Quill seemed more of a parent to Groot in IW.

I think that a good characterization of Quill should show that he has grown protective and responsible towards his fellow Guardians but still doesn't have a handle on his own issues. IW seemed pretty consistent with that. And he was prepared to kill Gamora according to her wishes and the stakes she established to him. But he didn't expect Thanos to kill her and it's understandable that he lost it at that moment.
 
Should have grown? I can't believe what some of you are writing. He just revealed to Gamora that he loved her, he went on a chase to rescue her and then when he catches him he discovers that he killed her. It was totally earned moment, and perfectly in character.
 
Saw it for the 3rd time yesterday... and there's still one thing I can't figure out...

How does Thor know to go to Wakanda after forging Stormbreaker???

Also, how did Thor know the Time Stone was on Earth and "safe with the Avengers"? He met Doctor Strange in Thor: Ragnarok, but there was no mention of the Time Stone/Infinity Stones between them. :huh:
 
Saw it for the third time today. Still a packed theater and a great cinema experience. This really is one of the great movies to see in the theater. This movie is just so good.
 
Can't believe anyone can complain about the Quill moment and compare it to "Martha". One is a great moment completely in character and built up over multiple movies and the other is an abomination that spelt the death of its cinematic universe coz it made ZERO sense. :D
 
Exactly. If Thanos had murdered Pepper it might have been a similar reaction from Tony.

Yep. If anything, the only complaint I have is that he didn’t try to shoot Thanos in the face. It would have for given his reaction with Ego, and if I were holding a gun I would try the same thing in his shoes. Even knowing it wouldn’t kill him, in an irrational moment like that I would just want to try and hurt the other person as much as possible.
 
1. Stalling isn't the strategy I'm referring to. I'm talking out on the battlefield. The only thing decided was when to let down the forcefield. Considering all the heroes out there on the battlefield I expected a lot more coordination and definitive plan of attack instead of basically a street fight. Even if the stone had been destroyed they still needed to repel the invaders.

You can say they were blindsided coz of the type of army they had to face. They had no idea what these creatures were and what was the way to kill them. And yes, you can't strategize to any great extent without knowing whom you are facing and how they can be defeated. I don't see how this can be offputting to anyone but to each his own. I can only say you are the only one I have seen complaining about this.. So I guess it just works for the majority.


2. While what you say is true - again what it's lacking is a tangible reason for BP risking the nation of Wakanda like that to begin with. Due to time constraints that element is paid lip service. That whole sequence needed more room to breath, but the focus was to press forward with a big action sequence.

Every sequence in the movie would have been better for die hards if it had more room to breathe. But the movie has to work for everyone, not just the die hards. And the movie as it is today works completely well as a full movie with enough backstory given for anyone to understand. As I remarked somewhere else, I took some MCU Virgin friends of mine to this movie and they had no trouble following the plot points. Some of the situational humour was lost on them, esp. about Drax but because the characters stay true to their emotions and motivations throughout the movie, it was not hard for them to fill in the gaps in their own ways.


But the audience generally speaking is conventional. I'm not sure people can relate to making the children they supposedly "love" battle to near death. The favorite daughter line happened once in GOTG and again it's lip service.

It should not have worked but with performances like Seldana's and Brolin's, it does. You under rate the power of performance. Not every movie can set up every relationship within the movie. There are movies where you are told two folks are best friends and they just have a couple of scenes of interactions to establish it but you still buy it due to the chemistry and performances. Exactly what happened in IW. Again, to many this was even the highlight of the movie. Just goes to show it did work.



The point of the Accords wasn't to split the Avengers. It was to put their power in check, it just so happened to indirectly splinter the team due to philosophical differences.

Again, we get one passing mentioned of it when Cap and squad return to the Avengers base. That's it. It had virtually no effect on the film. Ross quickly stood down when Steve confronted him. Before Tony and Steve could even speak, New York got invaded.


The very scenes you are talking about were the consequence of Civil War. Vision and Wanda having to moonlight their relationship, Tony (and eventually Bruce) having to call Steve when they all needed to be together as time was of essence, the Avengers being split to protect the time and mind stones, Thanos getting the Time Stone being the reason for him to get the Mind Stone... I am sorry but to say Civil War and its events did not have an impact is just silly. Sure, the Accords alone did not have an impact but it did not, even in Civil War. It was essentially the first thing to cause the rift but it was never the whole plot even in CW.



I haven't touched on the search for his people. There are most definitely areas of the film they could have trimmed to lengthen the Asgardian ship sequence.

From a "self contained" perspective it works fine. From the perspective having seen all the prior Thor films and then obviously Ragnarok, it feels cheap. We last saw him watching Thanos approaching then next suddenly others are slaughtered and one of the main Avengers on the doorstep of death. That's a major plot event in the MCU that's glossed over. I can't recall where in the MCU something like that would happen with such a major player.

Again, as a die hard you may feel these are important. But the movie does a great job of establishing what it needs to establish to tell the story it needs to tell. A battle sequence on that ship would have been a nice to have, but not a must have as what matters is where we pick up. As a matter of fact, all the other fights are done well to establish exactly how Thanos and Children could have conceivably defeated the Asgard warriors, esp. with the power stone in possession.



I think maybe you're referring to parallels, but again it gets diluted a bit after three different instances of it. Reminds of the Oprah meme "You get a .... she gets a .... everyone gets a ...!!!!"


Nah, it was story telling symmetry. Too bad it comes across this way to you but that does not mean its not. Maybe you just don't appreciate it coz of your earlier nitpicks.



In a literal sense yes they took on multiple Avengers. The problem for me was watching them spar with Vision - who is head and shoulders above Cap/BW/Falcon and yet those three were able to stand up to them in 1-on-1 attacks. The Russos should have gone to greater lengths showing A: More teamwork and B: The Black Order getting weakened from scuffling with Vision/SW.


Vision was attacked from behind and its obvious the blade has alien powers that stops him from being able to use many of his abilities. The Cap Team were very careful to avoid being hit by the blade and they had the jump on the attackers much like the attackers had on Vision. Also, Wanda did beat the **** out of them, she was just finding it difficult as she was also trying to protect Vision.



Appreciate it.

Again from an isolated perspective the film works, which is an amazing accomplishment given how many characters it had to tie together. I just felt because of its size, I was also forced to accept quite a bit of surface level exposition and I wasn't allowed to slow down to settle into the film.



I dont think the movie works only from an isolated perspective. I feel that feeling is rather more of an isolated perspective, coz every time I have seen this movie, it only works so much better.
 
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Also, how did Thor know the Time Stone was on Earth and "safe with the Avengers"? He met Doctor Strange in Thor: Ragnarok, but there was no mention of the Time Stone/Infinity Stones between them. :huh:


I thought he said that about the Mind Stone, referring to Vision? If not, maybe he saw where all of the Stones where in his much-maligned "vision" scene? (Although...probably not, as he didn't know where the Soul Stone was...) or recognised it hanging around Doctor Strange's neck? (Was Strange wearing it when they met?)


I'm not sure how the Bifrost works but, maybe, Thor just willed himself to where the Avengers were on Earth and it took him there and that's how he ended up in the right place at the right time? Seems plausible to me; he knows he has to go back once he gets Stormbreaker but would never know where they were so simply being taken there through force of will via the Bifrost makes sense.


As for me, I really loved the film. I go into it a bit more (and spoilers) in my blog (cheap plug) but I thought the Russos did a really good job of juggling everything and everyone.


I was so, so happy to finally see the Red Skull come back; I don't care if he never gets off that island/world/whatever, I'm just happy too finally have that plot thread tidied up. I also loved how they went balls-deep with the emotional weight of the movie and was legitimately shocked at some of their choices for disintegration in the ending. Theories and rumours are going to be rampant by the time the next film comes out.


I think the only real thing I was disappointed by was the lack of Hulk, especially after the trailer had him involved in the battle in Wakanda. I actually wondered for a moment if we were going to see Grey Hulk when Bruce was struggling in the Hulkbuster armour but, instead, no Hulk at all. I really hope he shows up in the next film as, now that he's properly talking and everything, I want to see his interactions with the other characters.
 
Finally saw it on the big screen with my lady last night. I had previously known all the spoilers and watched tons of leaked clips. But as expected for me I loved it and this was incredible. One of the MCU’s best without a doubt very much so at the top. And it was the best and my favorite Avengers film. 10/10 for me without a doubt. Russo Brothers are crushing it in the MCU.
 
Loved this film even though it had a lot of problems. Still give it 8.5 out of 10.
 
It sounds like I'm throwing shade at the movie in every single comment but this is still a 9/10 for me! I don't think it has high rewatchabilty but I think considering my first viewing it earns a 9 easily. To me the movie relies on plot and not action, despite what many say. To be honest a few of the action scenes are shorter in duration than in comparison to other Avengers films. But it was the intensity of plot and possible "happenings" that make each scene intriguing. And again of course this effect is the best when it is your first viewing. I think one of the reasons people claim that "Infinity War has no plot" is because this doesn't follow any formula. Like it's even difficult to determine if this would be considered a 3 act structure as opposed to a 4 or 5 act layout. There's so many plot threads that it becomes impossible to claim that this is a carbon copy of anything else and common uses of story structure are way less apparent.

I do think it will be very easy for Avengers 4 to top this though. The Russos might have been pulling punches so Infinity War wouldn't overshadow A4.
 
Yes, if the soul stone is what Feige said it was, a place where time and space do not exist, kinda like the nexus in star trek generations, then people could meet up in there and change whatever happened without there being time travel. This would also match the earlier leaked photos from Avengers 4 featuring Loki, Gamora and Heimdall all back.

Do you have any links or photos to verify this? Because that's really cool if its true!
 
Saw it again today. Some thoughts...
How did Thanos get the red stone? I’m guessing he already got it from the Collector but is it stated?

Dr Strange didn’t have his gloves on at the end and you can see the scars. Nice touch.

Still upset at how they treated Hulk. Everyone had a heroic moment but not him.
Watching the fight a little more closely, Thanos punches him in the shoulder/arm and he actually whimpers.
They had about 3 times to have him fight and they deny it.
I don’t care if he loses, as long as they stay true to the character. Losing is not in his mind, ever.
Hoping they redeem him in the next one but I doubt it.
 
Yep. If anything, the only complaint I have is that he didn’t try to shoot Thanos in the face. It would have for given his reaction with Ego, and if I were holding a gun I would try the same thing in his shoes. Even knowing it wouldn’t kill him, in an irrational moment like that I would just want to try and hurt the other person as much as possible.

I think the main reason he didn't is Mantis was right on top of him and that may hit her as well.
 
Saw it again today. Some thoughts...
How did Thanos get the red stone? I’m guessing he already got it from the Collector but is it stated?

Dr Strange didn’t have his gloves on at the end and you can see the scars. Nice touch.

Still upset at how they treated Hulk. Everyone had a heroic moment but not him.
Watching the fight a little more closely, Thanos punches him in the shoulder/arm and he actually whimpers.
They had about 3 times to have him fight and they deny it.
I don’t care if he loses, as long as they stay true to the character. Losing is not in his mind, ever.
Hoping they redeem him in the next one but I doubt it.

1. I think he picked it up from the Collector; he changed the reality of the place to later show that it was destroyed.

2. Even though Bruce was heroic, he fought as himself, not as Hulk. He may not have had thebig moment, but he was there. It was cool to see Bruce who doesn't want to fight, wanting to fight.
 
Stark and Quill definitely are similar personalities.

But I'd argue that Stark's turn in the end of CW is pretty well-written and earned. The tragedy of Stark in that movie is that he spends the entire story trying to assume the role of 'responsible grown-up' within the Avengers due to his previous sins and mistakes. And then at the most crucial, inopportune time, the true nature of his parents' death is revealed in VIVID, VIDEOTAPED EVIDENCE and he completely regresses.

Quill should have grown by now, but that doesn't mean he should have grown so much that he can control himself when he finds out his girlfriend has been murdered. I actually had more problems with aspects of GotG2, when his stupid piloting competition with Rocket almost gets the entire team killed. I liked how Quill seemed more of a parent to Groot in IW.

I think that a good characterization of Quill should show that he has grown protective and responsible towards his fellow Guardians but still doesn't have a handle on his own issues. IW seemed pretty consistent with that. And he was prepared to kill Gamora according to her wishes and the stakes she established to him. But he didn't expect Thanos to kill her and it's understandable that he lost it at that moment.

ahhh and here is where environment is so import to how a person develops.

while you feel quill should've grown by now...let's not forget that he was kidnapped and raised by ravengers against his will. he didn't have real parents and the people he was raised by didn't live virtous lives. he was raised to steal. him flipping out and not able to see the big picture or keep composure is actually a pretty spot on character trait for someone like him at this age.
 
ahhh and here is where environment is so import to how a person develops.

while you feel quill should've grown by now...let's not forget that he was kidnapped and raised by ravengers against his will. he didn't have real parents and the people he was raised by didn't live virtous lives. he was raised to steal. him flipping out and not able to see the big picture or keep composure is actually a pretty spot on character trait for someone like him at this age.

It's very weird to see my post quoted in its entirety, and yet it's clear that you didn't read it. If you had, you'd see that you're agreeing with me, not arguing with me.
 
I think the main reason he didn't is Mantis was right on top of him and that may hit her as well.

Indeed, as it was when he used his blaster to hit Thanos in the face, he hit one of Mantis’s hands and that made her release Thanno’s head when out of reflex she recoiled her hands from the pain of the blow.
 
Watched it yet again today. I am firmly on the side that none of the main Avengers should die in Avengers 4 even more strongly. The movie had both Vision try to trade his life for that of half the universe, and the film rewarded him with failure. Gamora wanted Starlord to kill her and attempted to kill herself for that same reason, and the film rewarded her with failure. Thanos is by definition trading lives for others in wiping out half the universe. No doubt the story will end in his failure. Thematically, self-sacrifice in this film was not rewarded, so if say Cap or Iron Man dies in the end to save everyone, that conflicts with this thematic link.

The series has been about bringing the heroes TOGETHER. Thematically, the Avengers were divided at the start of Infinity War, and it led to their failure. In Avengers 4, I think what should win them the day is unity and doing it truly together. So I am going to say at the moment, I don't think any of the OG experience a perma-death. In the final battle with Thanos, maybe there is deaths, but I see in the end everyone of the original Avengers survives. I think it is a more satisfying ending and plays better with IW than a bittersweet one would.
 
You can say they were blindsided coz of the type of army they had to face. They had no idea what these creatures were and what was the way to kill them. And yes, you can't strategize to any great extent without knowing whom you are facing and how they can be defeated. I don't see how this can be offputting to anyone but to each his own. I can only say you are the only one I have seen complaining about this.. So I guess it just works for the majority.




Every sequence in the movie would have been better for die hards if it had more room to breathe. But the movie has to work for everyone, not just the die hards. And the movie as it is today works completely well as a full movie with enough backstory given for anyone to understand. As I remarked somewhere else, I took some MCU Virgin friends of mine to this movie and they had no trouble following the plot points. Some of the situational humour was lost on them, esp. about Drax but because the characters stay true to their emotions and motivations throughout the movie, it was not hard for them to fill in the gaps in their own ways.




It should not have worked but with performances like Seldana's and Brolin's, it does. You under rate the power of performance. Not every movie can set up every relationship within the movie. There are movies where you are told two folks are best friends and they just have a couple of scenes of interactions to establish it but you still buy it due to the chemistry and performances. Exactly what happened in IW. Again, to many this was even the highlight of the movie. Just goes to show it did work.






The very scenes you are talking about were the consequence of Civil War. Vision and Wanda having to moonlight their relationship, Tony (and eventually Bruce) having to call Steve when they all needed to be together as time was of essence, the Avengers being split to protect the time and mind stones, Thanos getting the Time Stone being the reason for him to get the Mind Stone... I am sorry but to say Civil War and its events did not have an impact is just silly. Sure, the Accords alone did not have an impact but it did not, even in Civil War. It was essentially the first thing to cause the rift but it was never the whole plot even in CW.





Again, as a die hard you may feel these are important. But the movie does a great job of establishing what it needs to establish to tell the story it needs to tell. A battle sequence on that ship would have been a nice to have, but not a must have as what matters is where we pick up. As a matter of fact, all the other fights are done well to establish exactly how Thanos and Children could have conceivably defeated the Asgard warriors, esp. with the power stone in possession.






Nah, it was story telling symmetry. Too bad it comes across this way to you but that does not mean its not. Maybe you just don't appreciate it coz of your earlier nitpicks.






Vision was attacked from behind and its obvious the blade has alien powers that stops him from being able to use many of his abilities. The Cap Team were very careful to avoid being hit by the blade and they had the jump on the attackers much like the attackers had on Vision. Also, Wanda did beat the **** out of them, she was just finding it difficult as she was also trying to protect Vision.







I dont think the movie works only from an isolated perspective. I feel that feeling is rather more of an isolated perspective, coz every time I have seen this movie, it only works so much better.

I am on a phone so not able to snipe at the king's management of the infantry fight but I am among those who has, in other forums when I had the time.

I understand it is easier time wise just to say charge rather than show the planning that Lieutenant Chard pulled off at Rourke's Drift while in a similar operational position. But then the movie Zulu focused on that battle for 3 hours while the battle to protect Shuri and Vision was just part of the overall movie. So using time to show working infantry tactics would have bogged Infinity War down
 
The fact that people are bringing meta knowledge into the movie isn't the movie's fault.
It's not the movie fault you know the schedule of Marvel's upcoming movies.
In the moment the deaths are haunting and effective.
 

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