Avengers the Initiative

[Sloth7d]

Don't see what you guys have against the yellowjacket outfit. Its his best one.

 

[Kitsune]

I like the generally idea of the Yellow Jacket ID, but the costume could use some updating.

 

[The Question]

I didn't know about the jetpack. I thought the Yellowjacket costume could just glide by vibrating those ridiculously huge shoulder... things.

God, I hate the Yellowjacket costume.

Well, either way, it does alow him to fly away from trouble. So he'll probably survive. Of course, I've noyiced that Slott's continuity sense has been a tad off lately, so who knows.

 

[blud_knight]

in your opinion what was worse.
Yellow Jacket
or
this
dun dun dun...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yellowjacket. Nightwing's costume is just a symptom of the times--disco was cool in the '70s and early '80s. Yellowjacket's costume can't cite corrupting influences from any time period in particular. It sucks in every generation.

I like the generally idea of the Yellow Jacket ID, but the costume could use some updating.

Really? You like the idea of Hank re-embracing the identity he sported for the absolute worst years of his life?

Bleh. I think Hank has gotten a really raw deal lately. He shined from the '80s through the turn of the millennium in Avengers West Coast and Busiek's run, but ever since Johns' run, the character's become mired in the weight of his own past again. After decades of moving on and getting over it, the wife-beater thing reared its ugly head again left and right, and now he's become increasingly Machiavellian as one of the chief architects of Iron Man's fascist regi--I mean Initiative. Poor Hank. I hope the pendulum swings back to embracing the idea of redemption and allows him to stop regressing soon.

 

[PhotoJones]

in your opinion what was worse.
Yellow Jacket
or
this
dun dun dun...

that costume right there is one of the very few things that breaks the rule of "everything perez draws is gold".

 

[BrianWilly]

The general Public doesn't really know that Thor was even Cloned. So, simply put, she likely doesn't know what they did....yet.

I'm pretty sure the general public does know since, well, generally people were very affected by Goliath's death and it would make sense that they knew. And, more relevantly, Frontline showed that it was caught by []such prestigious journalists like Floyd and Urich[/] and Urich interviewed Stark about it afterwards (and Stark promised that the full story would be disclosed to the public).

But then, as we know, just because Urich uncovers a story and talks to Stark about it doesn't mean that it will be disclosed.



Damn, I love that smiley.

 

[PhotoJones]

Really? You like the idea of Hank re-embracing the identity he sported for the absolute worst years of his life?

Bleh. I think Hank has gotten a really raw deal lately. He shined from the '80s through the turn of the millennium in Avengers West Coast and Busiek's run, but ever since Johns' run, the character's become mired in the weight of his own past again. After decades of moving on and getting over it, the wife-beater thing reared its ugly head again left and right, and now he's become increasingly Machiavellian as one of the chief architects of Iron Man's fascist regi--I mean Initiative. Poor Hank. I hope the pendulum swings back to embracing the idea of redemption and allows him to stop regressing soon.

i couldn't agree more.

from the looks of it, slott seems to be on the same page, as it looks like hank's going to get his time to shine in an upcoming issue of avengers: the inititiative.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, by dying. Which, honestly, is probably one of the best things that could happen to the character at this point. Just kill him off, let him rest in a grave for a few years, and then bring him back under the guidance of someone who actually likes him and wants to raise him up from the crap heap he's been wallowing in.

 

[PhotoJones]

Yeah, by dying. Which, honestly, is probably one of the best things that could happen to the character at this point. Just kill him off, let him rest in a grave for a few years, and then bring him back under the guidance of someone who actually likes him and wants to raise him up from the crap heap he's been wallowing in.

i read it that way at first, too. looks more to me that hank saves the day, and is awarded/recognized for his noble actions.

 

[Dread]

I will agree with Corp a little and say the best Pym has gotten lately was probably in BEYOND! by McDuffie, where he was back to his 90's "Dr. Pym" power level which was more varied than just a growing or shrinking motif. I do agree that donning his Yellowjacket form again is not the best idea, but he's had it for years now. It's old news.

Is it a coincidence that relying on his wife-beater past in 616 became in vogue again about when ULTIMATES was really taking off, and they had that infamous issue #6 sequence? After all, not only did Millar include that tidbit, he did what he always does; ridiculously exaggerate it. In 616, Hank chewed Jan out and backhanded her like once. In Ultimate, he beats her into an F'ing coma by literally spraying her with Raid, siccing a colony of ants on her, and general pummeling. Guess which got the more recent attention. Guess which, therefore, was emulated, especially when you started having Ultimate writers move onto 616. It is reasons like this that I am sure some people dislike the Ultimate line, but that's not the issue of the line itself, it's the issue of writers from that line moving onto 616 and treating it as simular. They're not. But, what's done is done.

Frankly, Marvel's been in kill-happy mode ever since CW started, and a year later hasn't relented. The fact that CA #25 was the #1 comic of March and got international news attention won't dull that fact, either. At least Slott may give Pym a better, more heroic and dignified sendoff than Bendis ("Not like this! NOT LIKE THIS!" Hawkeye was literally complaining about how lame his death was about to be).

 

[Darthphere]

**** all of you! Nightwing's disco suit is ****ing awesome.

 

[Sloth7d]

I will agree with Corp a little and say the best Pym has gotten lately was probably in BEYOND! by McDuffie, where he was back to his 90's "Dr. Pym" power level which was more varied than just a growing or shrinking motif. I do agree that donning his Yellowjacket form again is not the best idea, but he's had it for years now. It's old news.

Is it a coincidence that relying on his wife-beater past in 616 became in vogue again about when ULTIMATES was really taking off, and they had that infamous issue #6 sequence? After all, not only did Millar include that tidbit, he did what he always does; ridiculously exaggerate it. In 616, Hank chewed Jan out and backhanded her like once. In Ultimate, he beats her into an F'ing coma by literally spraying her with Raid, siccing a colony of ants on her, and general pummeling. Guess which got the more recent attention. Guess which, therefore, was emulated, especially when you started having Ultimate writers move onto 616. It is reasons like this that I am sure some people dislike the Ultimate line, but that's not the issue of the line itself, it's the issue of writers from that line moving onto 616 and treating it as simular. They're not. But, what's done is done.

Frankly, Marvel's been in kill-happy mode ever since CW started, and a year later hasn't relented. The fact that CA #25 was the #1 comic of March and got international news attention won't dull that fact, either. At least Slott may give Pym a better, more heroic and dignified sendoff than Bendis ("Not like this! NOT LIKE THIS!" Hawkeye was literally complaining about how lame his death was about to be).

LOL. Really?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, Ultimates devoted pretty much an entire issue to something that was actually only one panel in the original Avengers stuff. Ultimate Hank is just generally a total dickwad, too.

 

[Dread]

LOL. Really?

Yes. One of Millar's strengths, and weaknesses, is that when left unchecked, his stories are about as subtle as a acid-tripping gorilla with a chainsaw. This is a strength when he has to do an action sequence, where the b@!!$ are to the wall. It is a weakness if you need a story to be more subtle, like CIVIL WAR. Rather than make Iron Man merely support SHRA, he made him a villian-hiring, hero-cloning, ally-killing fascist (although he wasn't alone). About the only book where he managed to curb some of this was UFF, a run that is very underrated. His UXM was cynical with hit or miss climaxes and his Ultimates are Hollywood blockbusters with more political pretentiousness. And almost everyone agrees that CW probably would have been far stronger with a writer who wasn't just out to do a checklist of Hollywood action movie shockers.

Read WANTED, if you want to see what a Millar story, without any sort of editorial oversight, would look like. It's not pretty.

 

[Kevin]

Sounds Scary

 

[PhotoJones]

all this hank pym death speculation...tsk tsk.

 

[blud_knight]

**** all of you! Nightwing's disco suit is ****ing awesome.

Oh my god its nightwing without his mask on!!

 

[Kitsune]

Yellowjacket. Nightwing's costume is just a symptom of the times--disco was cool in the '70s and early '80s. Yellowjacket's costume can't cite corrupting influences from any time period in particular. It sucks in every generation.

Really? You like the idea of Hank re-embracing the identity he sported for the absolute worst years of his life?

Bleh. I think Hank has gotten a really raw deal lately. He shined from the '80s through the turn of the millennium in Avengers West Coast and Busiek's run, but ever since Johns' run, the character's become mired in the weight of his own past again. After decades of moving on and getting over it, the wife-beater thing reared its ugly head again left and right, and now he's become increasingly Machiavellian as one of the chief architects of Iron Man's fascist regi--I mean Initiative. Poor Hank. I hope the pendulum swings back to embracing the idea of redemption and allows him to stop regressing soon.

You have to remember that Yellow Jacket also represents Hank at his most successful, he took on the entire Avengers by himself. There was some issues not long ago where Yellow Jacket and Goliath were separated into two different people, and YJ seemed to be the outgoing confident and spontaneous one where Goliath was the boring methodical scientist. It could be that Hank wants to be more like the YJ personality at this point.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Yellowjacket. Nightwing's costume is just a symptom of the times--disco was cool in the '70s and early '80s. Yellowjacket's costume can't cite corrupting influences from any time period in particular. It sucks in every generation.

Really? You like the idea of Hank re-embracing the identity he sported for the absolute worst years of his life?

Bleh. I think Hank has gotten a really raw deal lately. He shined from the '80s through the turn of the millennium in Avengers West Coast and Busiek's run, but ever since Johns' run, the character's become mired in the weight of his own past again. After decades of moving on and getting over it, the wife-beater thing reared its ugly head again left and right, and now he's become increasingly Machiavellian as one of the chief architects of Iron Man's fascist regi--I mean Initiative. Poor Hank. I hope the pendulum swings back to embracing the idea of redemption and allows him to stop regressing soon.

I'll let the fascism thing go as a joke.


However, it feels like Bendis has been writing every Pym story for the past couple years, and instead of actually reading what he's been doing for like a decade or so, he just reels on the single event that people just kind of point to as the butt of their jokes, and assume it's the everything about the character. Pym accomplished so much more, and even in Beyond! he had tons to look forward to. It's not like he's just been boiling over this little incident his entire life. While he's shown times of regretting it, he's definitely shown his ability to just get over it and just move on, as has Jan. So it just feels really dumb to write him as some insecure idiot who has to be remembered for not hitting his wife.

In point. If everybody thought of him for hitting his wife, everybody would look anywhere but him for any form of scientific information, as well as being booted from any team he's even been on, and generally just not liked by anybody in the superhero community. He'd just be shunned.

Not condoning wife beating (seeing how I'd be getting the raw end of the deal), but definitely I'm saying that pretty much the entire MU kind of moved on from that, and it sucks that some writers can't. (Because they suck.)

And I agree, while I like Yellowjacket (in the prospect of a character) it would make TONS more sense for someone else to take it up (preferrably not knowing why Pym abandoned it, as Pym taking it back up makes about as much sense (less than) Spidey picking up his black costume again. It actually makes about as much sense JQ's idea that nobody in the world of information has an idea what the genome or it's capabilities are.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Yes. One of Millar's strengths, and weaknesses, is that when left unchecked, his stories are about as subtle as a acid-tripping gorilla with a chainsaw. This is a strength when he has to do an action sequence, where the b@!!$ are to the wall. It is a weakness if you need a story to be more subtle, like CIVIL WAR. Rather than make Iron Man merely support SHRA, he made him a villian-hiring, hero-cloning, ally-killing fascist (although he wasn't alone). About the only book where he managed to curb some of this was UFF, a run that is very underrated. His UXM was cynical with hit or miss climaxes and his Ultimates are Hollywood blockbusters with more political pretentiousness. And almost everyone agrees that CW probably would have been far stronger with a writer who wasn't just out to do a checklist of Hollywood action movie shockers.

Read WANTED, if you want to see what a Millar story, without any sort of editorial oversight, would look like. It's not pretty.

Yeah, Millar is good and all when he doesn't decide to write like he may somehow change the world with his writing.

Though, he really didn't make Iron Man look like a fascist. Iron Man as a fascist would've outlawed all superhumans, just built an army of argonauts (as he knew he could control those perfectly and manipulate them only to his own ends which would in turn run the public through strength in every little facet of their lives), and then just run everything himself to his own specifications, rather than what the SHRA drafted by groups who didn't even consult him has done and just help build a superhuman training force that's sole purpose seems to be tracking down and containing other superhumans. (I'll stop when everybody else does.)

But he sure made Iron Man (and Cap...and pretty much everybody else) look like idiotic ***** who just stepped out of an alternate dimension only Millar believed in.

If Civil War were pretty much written by anybody else (even Bendis) it would've most likely been written better, and with a heavy lack of bias.

 

[Varient]

scary.
Hank Pym,....

wow,.. so horrible the thought just ,.. left.

 

[The Question]

Yeah, Millar is good and all when he doesn't decide to write like he may somehow change the world with his writing.

Though, he really didn't make Iron Man look like a fascist. Iron Man as a fascist would've outlawed all superhumans, just built an army of argonauts (as he knew he could control those perfectly and manipulate them only to his own ends which would in turn run the public through strength in every little facet of their lives), and then just run everything himself to his own specifications, rather than what the SHRA drafted by groups who didn't even consult him has done and just help build a superhuman training force that's sole purpose seems to be tracking down and containing other superhumans. (I'll stop when everybody else does.)

But he sure made Iron Man (and Cap...and pretty much everybody else) look like idiotic ***** who just stepped out of an alternate dimension only Millar believed in.

If Civil War were pretty much written by anybody else (even Bendis) it would've most likely been written better, and with a heavy lack of bias.

I don't blame Millar entirely. It seems that many of the descisions came from on high to me.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

While I will say there was some influence, it was probably for the positive. You know how Millar gets when he's allowed to do things on his own concerning the government.

 

[The Question]

While I will say there was some influence, it was probably for the positive. You know how Millar gets when he's allowed to do things on his own concerning the government.

I don't know. Out of all of Millar's politically charged work I've read, Civil War is the only one I see as a real blemish.