[B89] The plot holes & flaws.

[The Empire Ape]

I think it's time to discuss the negative things about B89. Not the "oh no teh Joker is not teh killer of teh parents" and "Keaton is so short and skinny".

1. A thing I have never really seen is that when the Joker holds his parade in Gotham City. Well, he actually admits his guilt in TV and then there is no police who captures (or, at least, tries) him and his goons? Well

2. Why are there Joker goons in the cathedral? It seems like that the church attendance was more a spontaneous idea. Then why are Joker's men there?

 

[BubbaGump]

I still can't believe the Joker killed Bruce's parents. Why was Keaton so short?

 

[CFE]

1:
The police couldn't risk being gassed themselves, and Joker was only challenging Batman to stop him.


2:
Joker most likely had men positioned in multiple spots up and down Main Street...so that no matter where he ended up he'd have back up.

Or you could say that since the street is so tight and narrow, given the positioning of the parade and the path the approaching Batwing took, Joker predicted where the Batwing would end up...

Or you can say that no matter where the Batwing was gonna end up, Joker planned all along to lead Batman into the cathedral...


...Or you could say "It's a movie, stop analyzing it so godd**n much..."

Take your pick.

CFE

 

[BubbaGump]

1:
The police couldn't risk being gassed themselves, and Joker was only challenging Batman to stop him.

That doesn't make any sense. I don't think the police had any idea that Joker was going to gas the crowd. It's one of those things that's irrational to defend--it is a true plothole.

 

[The Empire Ape]

1:


...Or you could say "It's a movie, stop analyzing it so godd**n much..."

Take your pick.

CFE

No, this is a stupid argument. "it's a comic book", "it's a movie" is not really an excuse. Things like "100 guys are shooting at the hero and now one scores", "they fly with more than light speed" and "they wear funny costumes" are conventions of a genre. Those are okay and have to be accepted to make fiction possible. But things who violate logic in this way are plot holes and a sign of bad writing.

 

[Damiean Dark]

No, this is a stupid argument. "it's a comic book", "it's a movie" is not really an excuse. Things like "100 guys are shooting at the hero and now one scores", "they fly with more than light speed" and "they wear funny costumes" are conventions of a genre. Those are okay and have to be accepted to make fiction possible. But things who violate logic in this way are plot holes and a sign of bad writing.

LOL yeah some people have to much time on thier hands all batman films have plotholes and bad lines dont single out B89.

 

[Dope Nose]

1. A thing I have never really seen is that when the Joker holds his parade in Gotham City. Well, he actually admits his guilt in TV

he does?

"Now, I can be theatrical, and maybe even a little rough - but one thing I am not, is a killer."

 

[The Empire Ape]

he does?

haven't seen the film for a long time. But his TV commerical "love that joker" is a fact.

 

[Bat Attack]

I got over the plot holes a long time ago. Now I just love the film for what it is, flaws included. But if you guys want to debate this endless topic for eternity be my guest. Hmm, I think I'm going to go watch Batman right now matter of fact, .

 

[DocLathropBrown]

Read the novelization, it answers all of the questions.

1. The Joker drugged the police's coffee, and over two-thirds of the city's entire police force was hospitalized. When Gordon shows up after the parade is over, he's with the only remaining cops left, who were too few to enforce crowd control, much less stop the Joker's men.

2. The three thugs in the Cathedral were some of the Joker's men from the parade who "Went up [there] to get a look at what was going on." The Joker was even surprised by their appearance, and then decided to lay a trap for Batman, assuming he survived the bell falling.

There you go.

And on another note, he doesn't admit guilt on TV, and he doesn't announce his plans, either. Not thr evil part of the plan, anyway. In the Smilex commercial, yes, I suppose. But not on the one toward the end announcing that he was going to be running the city's parade.

If anyone has any questions about the film they want answered, speak up. I'll answer them from the novelization, which is still one of the top ten best Batman stories ever written, IMO.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Read the novelization, it answers all of the questions.

It does, but the novelisation is the novelisation, not the movie. If it's not explained within the movie itself, it's a plothole.

 

[GoogleMe94]

sheesh, why is everyone always talking about the flaws of the burton films? cant we just anjoy them for what they are, awsome batman films? i dont really care about little stupid details, as long as the movie kicks ass and they did.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

1) Curropt police force, guy throwing millions of dollars about...

 

[DocLathropBrown]

It does, but the novelisation is the novelisation, not the movie. If it's not explained within the movie itself, it's a plothole.

True, but from the perspective of filling-in-the-holes that every film has, I think the way to answer these questions, rather than to come up with our own assumptions, is to go to a "canon" source. The novelization, based on the real, true-blue script, is as canon as canon gets.

And to be fair, I never did claim that the novelization having the answers made the film any less full of plot holes.

 

[Numez]

another thread trying to bash B89. what a surprise.

 

[The Empire Ape]

another thread trying to bash B89. what a surprise.

Hm. Here I am a burton basher, in the Dark Knight forum I am a Burtonite who is just bashing.

Guess this is my world now.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

another thread trying to bash B89. what a surprise.

This thread isn't bashing B89, you idiot. No film is perfect. The Empire Age is a noted Burton fan.

How many times did your mom drop you when you were an infant? Would it explain your complete lack of comprehension skills?

 

[StylishHokie21]

Isn't there already a thread for this?

 

[CFE]

Isn't there already a thread for this?

Take your pick

CFE

 

[Damiean Dark]

Again. Flaws in B89 are more forgivable because we know and the makers know its a fantasy action movie and doesnt have to be 100%. flaws seen in B89/BR/BF/B&R can be taken with a grain of salt this isnt the case with BB its the most serious and grounded in reality so its flaws are far more critisized and apparent IMO.

 

[Bat Attack]

Take your pick

CFE

Haha, . So true.

 

[悪魔天]

I have not seen this movie since theatres..I have to watch it again tonight on TV

 

[Swordmaster]

Again. Flaws in B89 are more forgivable because we know and the makers know its a fantasy action movie and doesnt have to be 100%. flaws seen in B89/BR/BF/B&R can be taken with a grain of salt this isnt the case with BB its the most serious and grounded in reality so its flaws are far more critisized and apparent IMO.

So because it's a fantasy film, we can just ignore all the errors it makes in regards to continuity and logic? I call bull**** on that.

 

[Mr. Socko]

In the final battle scene with Batman & Joker, Batman says "You killed my parents" as Joker replies "I was young when I killed your parents" How would he know he killed his parents in the first place when he doesn't even know Batman really is Bruce Wayne.


The one glaring hole I could never get past. That is all.

 

[StylishHokie21]

Take your pick

CFE

I know. There will be at least 50 more.