[B89] The plot holes & flaws.

[StylishHokie21]

Everyone in Burton's movie seemed momentously ******ed except for Batman and the Joker. It was really unrealistic and too gimmicky.

Care to elaborate?

 

[El Payaso]

Everyone in Burton's movie seemed momentously ******ed except for Batman and the Joker. It was really unrealistic and too gimmicky.

WTF

This post is unrealistic and gimmicky itself.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Everyone in Burton's movie seemed momentously ******ed except for Batman and the Joker. It was really unrealistic and too gimmicky.

That's an intresting view, and I don't mean that sarcastically.

Obvious the police are intended to completely ineffective against the crimewave in Gotham (or otherwise, as Frank Miller would say, there is no reason for Batman).

The point of Vicki is to be the audience's point of contact or stepping stone into a crazy world. Vicki is just Alice in Wonderland, she's looking around in shock the whole film. Many have suggested she's simply a bland romantic intrest for the sake of it, but Vicki is a wonderful character. She's a stronger, more important romantic intrest than most. Notice she wears all white often, especially during the climax, compared to Batman's pitch black. She often appears quite innocent, angelic and old-fashioned (as the Joker points out), chivalry-esque maiden like. She represents a potential bright future for Bruce, an escape from his life as Batman, as Alfred is all too aware.

That's why Alfred lets Vicki into the Batcave you fools, because Alfred thinks Bruce is going to die sooner or later and only Vicki can persuade him to give up Batman.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

You spelt grammar wrong, which makes it perfect.

At least it's spelling, and not grammar that I messed up.

 

[Dark Spidey]

I preferred the occasional sly smile from Batman than lines like "Nice coat".

Batman should not be complimenting homeless people on their clothes t:

But it was Batman's/Bruce's coat. That's the joke.

 

[The Joker]

But it was Batman's/Bruce's coat. That's the joke.

I know. Batman shouldn't be cracking jokes in his debut scene.

 

[The Empire Ape]

I know. Batman shouldn't be cracking jokes. Especially in his debut scene.

why not? Batman has always cracked jokes. "You may be the Joker but I am the king of clubs", "garbage collection is usually monday", "boo!" BOW!!!!

 

[The Joker]

why not? Batman has always cracked jokes.

No, he doesn't. But, then you're the guy who thinks Joker isn't crazy. So, this doesn't surprise me

"You may be the Joker but I am the king of clubs"

What the heck is that from?

"garbage collection is usually monday"

That was said in serious tone to some scum he had caught. "Nice coat" was a stupid joke said to a homeless man in the debut scene of Batman.

Lame.

 

[Mr. Socko]

Look more like he just relieved himself in his suit & it's warm.

I really hate how Keaton smile few times for no stupid reason in B89. Especially grinning few times near the end. That just not what Batman should do. He look more happy than a serious Dark Knight IMO.

 

[The Empire Ape]

No, he doesn't. But, then you're the guy who thinks Joker isn't crazy. So, this doesn't surprise me

yeah, i don't like the excuse "He is insane". He is just an evil m*ther*****er and hides behind this excuse.

What the heck is that from?

Some early Joker story. First or second appearance, I think.

That was said in serious tone to some scum he had caught. "Nice coat" was a stupid joke said to a homeless man in the debut scene of Batman.

Lame.

yeah, "nice coat" was stupid, but Batman always uses "one liners" until the 90s. Even Frank Miller's Batman in DKR said things like that ("write them a cheque", "Smoking? No end to your bad habits.").

I do not like the humourless Batman we've got since, hmm, "Zero Hour", perhaps? Batman shouldnt take himself too seriously.

 

[The Empire Ape]

ohhj. I like a batman that smiles, but this is just the worst example. It was totally inappropriate. Even Alan Moore said that TKJ was just wrong.

 

[El Payaso]

yeah, "nice coat" was stupid, but Batman always uses "one liners" until the 90s. Even Frank Miller's Batman in DKR said things like that ("write them a cheque", "Smoking? No end to your bad habits.").

I do not like the humourless Batman we've got since, hmm, "Zero Hour", perhaps? Batman shouldnt take himself too seriously.

I could buy that but... what's the humour in "Nice coat" actually? Nothing. The only possible receptor of that joke - 'reference' would be the best description of it - would be the actual - unexistant in the fiction - audience. Which makes the one-liner just stupid.

 

[The Empire Ape]

I could buy that but... what's the humour in "Nice coat" actually? QUOTE]

I agree with that. I just wanted to point out the "humour" and "one liner" because there is a trend to label something when Batman smiles or makes a joke as "out of character, teh Batman is not funny" when in fact he's always been.

 

[Nightwing1977]

That is hardly a smile. More like a smirk. And I meant to say Batman shouldn't smile a lot. Not to mention showing his teeth. Keaton done that few times, that it annoy the crap out of me.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

I could buy that but... what's the humour in "Nice coat" actually? Nothing. The only possible receptor of that joke - 'reference' would be the best description of it - would be the actual - unexistant in the fiction - audience. Which makes the one-liner just stupid.

Batman is making the joke for his own amusement, as it was he himself, as Bruce Wayne, who gave the man his coat.

Also, here's the main explanation for the joke; one of Nolan's main inspirations is Bond movies. In Bond movies, there is a particular sense of humour that follows something hugely over the top with something extremely normal, and the dichotomy between the two produces the laugh. For instance, James Bond leaps from a fourth floor window, rapels to the ground on a rope, lands, and to the astonishment of onlookers, simply adjusts his ties and walks off. You'll see the same joke endless times in the 007 series, and it's the same joke used in Batman Begins with the coat.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

That is hardly a smile. More like a smirk.

True, but in the next two panels you see Batman really laughing hard, and I quote, "Heh heh heh heh heh."

 

[Driller]

why not? Batman has always cracked jokes. "You may be the Joker but I am the king of clubs", "garbage collection is usually monday", "boo!" BOW!!!!

Because it makes no damn sense for a guy who is trying to scare bad guys by being all dark and scary to go cracking jokes and puns? Or maybe because it doesn't fit his modern serious and stoic portrayal?

And no, Batman didn't always crack jokes. Only in the Golden Age when ALL superheroes did it, and in the 60s and early 70s when the comics were cheesy and imitated the Adam West show. When Denny O'neil came and the Bat-comics became serious, all the grating jokes and puns were phased out (good riddance!).

 

[Necrosis Boy]

When Denny O'neil came and the Bat-comics became serious, all the grating jokes and puns were phased out (good riddance!).

Not even remotely true. The stories are still full of puns and gags made by Batman, e.g. the quip about pollution in five way revenge, the "boo" in the Two-Face story.

And by the mid-70s the Batman comics were full of camp again. For example, here is a Denny O'Neil story from 1979(!):

 

[Lead Cenobite]

The zaniness never quite goes away entirely no matter how serious or grimdark the comics get.

 

[Keehar]

I think it's time to discuss the negative things about B89. Not the "oh no teh Joker is not teh killer of teh parents" and "Keaton is so short and skinny".

1. A thing I have never really seen is that when the Joker holds his parade in Gotham City. Well, he actually admits his guilt in TV and then there is no police who captures (or, at least, tries) him and his goons? Well

2. Why are there Joker goons in the cathedral? It seems like that the church attendance was more a spontaneous idea. Then why are Joker's men there?

1. Stupid writing.

2. Even stupider writing.

There's your answers.

I still can't believe the Joker killed Bruce's parents. Why was Keaton so short?

Stupid plot convenience, and bad casting.

 

[Decepticonus]

I think it's time to discuss the negative things about B89. Not the "oh no teh Joker is not teh killer of teh parents" and "Keaton is so short and skinny".

1. A thing I have never really seen is that when the Joker holds his parade in Gotham City. Well, he actually admits his guilt in TV and then there is no police who captures (or, at least, tries) him and his goons? Well

2. Why are there Joker goons in the cathedral? It seems like that the church attendance was more a spontaneous idea. Then why are Joker's men there?

1. Stupid writing.

2. Even stupider writing.

There's your answers.



Stupid plot convenience, and bad casting.

Yes that does explain it. According to IMDB, A scene was written but never filmed in which the Joker took over a public ceremony, held Mayor Borg hostage (causing Borg to experience a breakdown), unveiled a statue of himself, and laced the Gotham City Police Department's coffee with a non-lethal poison, which would have explained why there are no police in the parade scene.

That could explain it. Yeah, I never thought of that until brought up.

For the second one... I got nothing. To me I always viewed the final act as end boss level where they send you a buncha hard random enemies at your first before the final boss.

 

[Bathead]

No, he doesn't. But, then you're the guy who thinks Joker isn't crazy. So, this doesn't surprise me



What the heck is that from?



That was said in serious tone to some scum he had caught. "Nice coat" was a stupid joke said to a homeless man in the debut scene of Batman.

Lame.

That's not even remotely true, even Keaton cracked a joke in Returns ("Eat floor - high fiber.") He's had quite a few one-liners in the Timm versions of Batman, as well, and I'm sure there are many other examples as well.
His humor is dry, and sometimes dark, but he isn't as completely dour and humorless as you seem to think. He would be an extremely boring and one-dimensional character if he was.

 

[Bathead]

Because it makes no damn sense for a guy who is trying to scare bad guys by being all dark and scary to go cracking jokes and puns? Or maybe because it doesn't fit his modern serious and stoic portrayal?

And no, Batman didn't always crack jokes. Only in the Golden Age when ALL superheroes did it, and in the 60s and early 70s when the comics were cheesy and imitated the Adam West show. When Denny O'neil came and the Bat-comics became serious, all the grating jokes and puns were phased out (good riddance!).

Totally wrong. He's been doing that the whole time right up to now. His humor is kinda dark, and infrequent, but it's there.

 

[Keehar]

Yes that does explain it. According to IMDB, A scene was written but never filmed in which the Joker took over a public ceremony, held Mayor Borg hostage (causing Borg to experience a breakdown), unveiled a statue of himself, and laced the Gotham City Police Department's coffee with a non-lethal poison, which would have explained why there are no police in the parade scene.

That could explain it. Yeah, I never thought of that until brought up.

For the second one... I got nothing. To me I always viewed the final act as end boss level where they send you a buncha hard random enemies at your first before the final boss.

Take it with a grain of salt if it's from IMDB. Wouldn't matter if it is true anyways because if it's not in the movie then it doesn't matter.

That's not even remotely true, even Keaton cracked a joke in Returns ("Eat floor - high fiber.") He's had quite a few one-liners in the Timm versions of Batman, as well, and I'm sure there are many other examples as well.
His humor is dry, and sometimes dark, but he isn't as completely dour and humorless as you seem to think. He would be an extremely boring and one-dimensional character if he was.

Keaton's eat floor joke was cringey as hell. If that's the sort of humour you think Batman has then I'm glad we never hear crap like that from him. I can't think of the Timm version ever cracking a cringey cornball joke like that. It sounds more at home in a Schumacher Bat script.

 

[Decepticonus]

Take it with a grain of salt if it's from IMDB. Wouldn't matter if it is true anyways because if it's not in the movie then it doesn't matter.

Yeah I know IMDB is well...yeah. Just thought I'd add it as food for thought.