Bad Robot/Jonathan Nolan Bringing "Westworld" to HBO - Part 1

[Kane52630]

Solid episode for the most part... I'm more excited for next week's bottle episode. Zahn McClarnon was probably the best part of Fargo season 2.

 

[Kane52630]

I just love this promo, the music is incredible
[YT]Bx3hW0qUlDU[/YT]

 

[Marvolo]

A bit late in the season to be doing a bottle episode about a character that has had very little screen time until now.

 

[Man in the Suit]

Episode 2x08 is not just a bottle episode. They're clearly setting up the Valley Beyond for the penultimate and finale episodes. And we might be seeing [BLACKOUT]Logan[/BLACKOUT] again based on the season trailer.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yeah. This isn't the first time this season we would have got what looked like a bottle episode from the trailer, but turned out not to be. That being said, they pretty much setup everything for the stretch run tonight.

 

[harlequinade]

Haven't seen the episode yet but I assume the security team yet again shone bright with brilliance because the entire reddit is straight up hating it

 

[Dr Lee]

The first half of that promo was beautifully done...

 

[superion]

Haven't seen the episode yet but I assume the security team yet again shone bright with brilliance because the entire reddit is straight up hating it

The biggest bunch of incompetents since the Star Wars storm troopers were at it again. You have to see their stupidity to believe it especially the guy who allowed the host to blow up the backups.

 

[Flash525]

I'm failing to see the host logic of blowing up their backups; they've essentially just become mortal, right? I don't for one minute believe this is the last we've seen of Maeve either - she'll be saved - most likely by that guy whos name I've suddenly forgotten (the cowardly little chap who wrote scenes for the park).

Pretty sure Hobbs (is it?) is the luckiest guy on the show though - how many close calls has he had, and he's still around?

I'm still finding Bernard's time jumps confusing. I'm not always sure when I'm looking at.

You're certainly not alone here!

 

[Dr Lee]

Sizemore is going to save Maeve (probably sacrificing himself in the process).

The hosts (under Dolores) think that removing themselves from their 'chains' will mean they get to the 'Valley Beyond' and total freedom. Also...as long as he back ups were in existence, then there was always a risk that they'd be wiped and replaced with the original version of themselves

 

[chamber-music]

Dolores earned her empathy throughout the first season, but I also think episode 2 of this season put it all into rather obvious perspective. I also think it is a fair to ask, considering everyone loves William. The most evil man this side of Ford.

Dolores has quite a bit of early Root to her. That burdened with glorious purpose/I know everything, thing going on. And I rather love it. Especially when you see how she reacted to new Teddy. That was very... damn.

Dolores might of been easier to root for if she didn't go all genocidal. Getting revenge on the people the creators and park users that abused them is somewhat understandable but killing innocent folks who didn't even know what was going on makes her no better than those she hates.

I don't think people are rooting for William in a protagonist sense. Mostly it seems people find his character and storyline interesting/compelling so they don't want him killed off just yet.

Sometimes people root for villains simply because they find them entertaining and not because they agree with their views or actions.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I don’t want Ed Harris killed off yet but he’s reaching Bullet Tooth Tony levels of unbelievability with how many times he got shot. If he doesn’t get medical attention soon, he should be dead but I have a feeling he’ll just somehow tough it out on his own and survive.

 

[Marvolo]

Dolores is easy to root for, but Wyatt is bloodthirsty and needs to be put down like a rabid dog before he can get out of the park.

 

[chamber-music]

People getting shot multiple times and surviving isn't completely unheard of.

Rapper/actor 50 Cent got show nine times and survived.

Westworld is set in the future so I imagine there will be some advanced medical technology that allows him to survive if he gets some medical attention soon.

 

[Deck Rickard]

People getting shot multiple times and surviving isn't completely unheard of.

Rapper/actor 50 Cent got show nine times and survived.

Westworld is set in the future so I imagine there will be some advanced medical technology that allows him to survive if he gets some medical attention soon.

That's true, but there are also multiple incidents where people suffered gunshots that did not appear to be life threatening but still died. If he just digs out the bullets with a knife and wraps up the wounds that going to be really unrealistic.

 

[squeekness]

How far can the hosts wander before their back implants explode? Does Delores even know about them?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Dolores might of been easier to root for if she didn't go all genocidal. Getting revenge on the people the creators and park users that abused them is somewhat understandable but killing innocent folks who didn't even know what was going on makes her no better than those she hates.

I don't think people are rooting for William in a protagonist sense. Mostly it seems people find his character and storyline interesting/compelling so they don't want him killed off just yet.

Sometimes people root for villains simply because they find them entertaining and not because they agree with their views or actions.

Wait, who is this? The guest are there to literally use the host for their pleasure. Those at the party at the end of the first season seemed to be mostly a part of the company, invited for Ford's final night.

 

[terry78]

It's gonna turn into a slippery slope, as all AI does. They get out, and discover how much chaos humanity has created and decide it's better to just take us out.

 

[chamber-music]

Wait, who is this? The guest are there to literally use the host for their pleasure. Those at the party at the end of the first season seemed to be a part of the company, invited for Ford's final night.

The black technician Phil who Delores said didn't know what was really going on was kidnapped by her, forced to do her bidding and put on a train to be blown up.

They have made it pretty clear on the show that only management is aware the hosts are self aware up until recently. The grunt technicians like Elsie or park security boss Hemsworth brother have no idea what is really going. They believe the hosts are just programmed machines without a consciousness. They don't know the parks true purpose.

When Felix realized Maeve was more than just a programmed machine he helped her.

Also I don't think all those delos execs and their spouses deserved to be brutally murdered. We don't know if they were all complicit or treated hosts badly.

The man in black/William still thinks the hosts are being controlled by ford as part of an elaborate scheme and in a way they are.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The black technician Phil who Delores said didn't know what was really going on was kidnapped by her, forced to do her bidding and put on a train to be blown up.

They have made it pretty clear on the show that only management is aware the hosts are self aware up until recently. The grunt technicians like Elsie or park security boss Hemsworth brother have no idea what is really going. They believe the hosts are just programmed machines without a consciousness. They don't know the parks true purpose.

When Felix realized Maeve was more than just a programmed machine he helped her.

Also I don't think all those delos execs and their spouses deserved to be brutally murdered. We don't know if they were all complicit or treated hosts badly.

The man in black/William still thinks the hosts are being controlled by ford as part of an elaborate scheme and in a way they are.

You mean someone who works for a company that setup the host to be raped, disfigured and killed? None of them qualify as innocent.

What is established very early on, beyond consciousnesses, is the purpose of the park. How human natural plays a role. If you work or have stake in a place that is built to allow people to play out their rape and killing fantasies, you do not qualify as innocent. They know what people are there for. It ain't searching for buried treasure.

On that basis alone, it shouldn't exist. But, and I think this is important, they know the host can feel. They know it is a part of the experience. Their pain. It is all a part of making it feel "more real". That's a special level of ****ed up. That they try and justify it so they can sleep at night, does not change that. I think a theme on this show is how the human race has just allowed this all to happen. Just stood by while this whole situation played out to its inevitable Skynet conclusion.

Also, William is being controlled by Ford. All the humans are being controlled by Ford. What does that change?

 

[Marvolo]

You mean someone who works for a company that setup the host to be raped, disfigured and killed? None of them qualify as innocent.

What is established very early on, beyond consciousnesses, is the purpose of the park. How human natural plays a role. If you work or have stake in a place that is built to allow people to play out their rape and killing fantasies, you do not qualify as innocent. They know what people are there for. It ain't searching for buried treasure.

On that basis alone, it shouldn't exist. But, and I think this is important, they know the host can feel. They know it is a part of the experience. Their pain. It is all a part of making it feel "more real". That's a special level of ****ed up. That they try and justify it so they can sleep at night, does not change that. I think a theme on this show is how the human race has just allowed this all to happen. Just stood by while this whole situation played out to its inevitable Skynet conclusion.

Also, William is being controlled by Ford. All the humans are being controlled by Ford. What does that change?

You cant rape a non sentient machine anymore than you can rape a sex doll. Some of the Guests think it's all programming. Even the pain is nothing more than a programmed response to stimuli as far as some of the Guests know. So if the Guest doesnt know the Host's are sentient and believes they are just programmed robots then that Guest isnt automatically some awful human being. Same with the killing and disfiguring. To the Guests not in the know they are playing a game with robotic NPCs. Like we play virtual games.

If tomorrow we found out that for years game companies had actually been using true AI in their games and the NPCs we've been harming in the games were actually sentient digital beings capable of feeling pain and having spontaneous individual thoughts would you think you and every gamer should be held accountable for every violent action committed in the game? That's the situation some of these Guests find themselves in. And we cant know that every single Guest has even assaulted the Hosts. So I think arbitrarily executing all Guests is an immoral horrible act that ignores context and the details of some of the Guests.

As for the employees I think summarily judging them is also wrong and summarily executing them is also an immoral horrible thing. Depending on how compartmentalized the staff's jobs are some parts of the staff may not know how sentient the Hosts are or that they arent just programmed robots. If that's the case then the staff shouldn't be summarily executed.

There is grey in all of this. In the Guests and the Host's side of things. It's a philosophical and moral quagmire that would take years for a justice system to sort through and work through.

 

[Flash525]

Dolores might of been easier to root for if she didn't go all genocidal. Getting revenge on the people the creators and park users that abused them is somewhat understandable but killing innocent folks who didn't even know what was going on makes her no better than those she hates.

Wait, who is this? The guest are there to literally use the host for their pleasure. Those at the party at the end of the first season seemed to be mostly a part of the company, invited for Ford's final night.

I'm not convinced all guests are there to abuse the hosts; think about how William started out - he was innocent and curious and didn't want to get involved in all the nasty business. Is it beyond belief that some visitors would visit the park more for the experience than to take advantage of the hosts?

I don't think people are rooting for William in a protagonist sense. Mostly it seems people find his character and storyline interesting/compelling so they don't want him killed off just yet. Sometimes people root for villains simply because they find them entertaining and not because they agree with their views or actions.

I don't think William is a villain, no more than he is a hero. He's somewhere in the middle (antihero?); he's all about the game, and I think once he realises the extensiveness of the host consciousness (and in turn, realises that it isn't Ford's doing (or is it?)) he'll act very differently toward them. In the past, for all implicated purposes, he's just been playing with toys; no different from sticking on Call of Duty and shooting the AI on that - you're not suddenly expecting a PS4 game to become sentient.

How far can the hosts wander before their back implants explode? Does Delores even know about them?

At this point I'm thinking that device is (or was) tied to park security; that's a system that's no longer active.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You cant rape a non sentient machine anymore than you can rape a sex doll. Some of the Guests think it's all programming. Even the pain is nothing more than a programmed response to stimuli as far as some of the Guests know. So if the Guest doesnt know the Host's are sentient and believes they are just programmed robots then that Guest isnt automatically some awful human being. Same with the killing and disfiguring. To the Guests not in the know they are playing a game with robotic NPCs. Like we play virtual games.

If tomorrow we found out that for years game companies had actually been using true AI in their games and the NPCs we've been harming in the games were actually sentient digital beings capable of feeling pain and having spontaneous individual thoughts would you think you and every gamer should be held accountable for every violent action committed in the game? That's the situation some of these Guests find themselves in. And we cant know that every single Guest has even assaulted the Hosts. So I think arbitrarily executing all Guests is an immoral horrible act that ignores context and the details of some of the Guests.

As for the employees I think summarily judging them is also wrong and summarily executing them is also an immoral horrible thing. Depending on how compartmentalized the staff's jobs are some parts of the staff may not know how sentient the Hosts are or that they arent just programmed robots. If that's the case then the staff shouldn't be summarily executed.

There is grey in all of this. In the Guests and the Host's side of things. It's a philosophical and moral quagmire that would take years for a justice system to sort through and work through.

I think it is clear. You show up to a park to play out your rape fantasy with something that is suppose to appear very human, is not an okay behavior and at no point does the show pitch the idea that it is. The parks aren't Disneyland and they emphasize this all the time. These places bring out the worst in people. It is why William became the Man in Black.

What videogames allow you to rape people? More to the point, are you comparing videogames to playing out the idea with what are suppose to be actual stand ins for living breathing people? And they try as hard as they can to make them as real as possible. They emphasize they are trying to make them more real throughout the first season.

I think it is only a moral quagmire if you are trying to justify the darker intentions of man. There are not good people on both sides here. And I say this while still adoring a character like Elsie, Emily, Felix and William.

 

[Flash525]

I think it is clear. You show up to a park to play out your rape fantasy with something that is suppose to appear very human, is not an okay behavior and at no point does the show pitch the idea that it is. The parks aren't Disneyland and they emphasize this all the time. These places bring out the worst in people. It is why William became the Man in Black.

William was pushed in that direction by the guy he was seemingly with; had William gone to the park of his own accord, events may have played out very differently. Even William's daughter didn't (initially) go to the park with the intention of sexual fulfilment.

What videogames allow you to rape people? More to the point, are you comparing videogames to playing out the idea with what are suppose to be actual stand ins for living breathing people? And they try as hard as they can to make them as real as possible. They emphasize they are trying to make them more real throughout the first season.

There are video games that allow you to kill people, and have sex with prostitutes (and then kill them).

I think the comparison is fair.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

William was pushed in that direction by the guy he was seemingly with; had William gone to the park of his own accord, events may have played out very differently. Even William's daughter didn't (initially) go to the park with the intention of sexual fulfilment.

What happened to William was his interaction with Dolores. He fell in love and tried to "save" her. He thought he was living out Pretty Woman. Though a very good example of someone without bad intentions whose worst nature is brought out by the park.

Also, Emily was a little girl when she originally went. Looking for a way to connect to her father. A clear intention that of course lead to the pleasure houses. Because that is what these places are.

There are video games that allow you to kill people, and have sex with prostitutes (and then kill them).

I think the comparison is fair.

The physical interaction in the point. So it is very different. This isn't being a space marine. Its about interacting on a physical level. It is like the concept of Jurassic Park. You could have a movie about dinosaurs or you could actually go and see dinosaurs. The inherent difference that leads to the actual problems of the park.