Batman/Bruce Wayne Casting Thread - Part 1

[BatsAndNights]

I don't want a Batman who pulls out a gun and shoots people in the face, but I do things fans are a little overzealous with the no killing role. Action movies have developed a language over the years and Batman running an anonymous car full of thugs off the road or firing missiles into a warehouse doesn't really count as killing to me.

Fair enough and I personally didn't have a problem with Battfleck killing in BvS for reasons I've already talked about, but I don't see why a Batman on the big screen can't have the strict moral code that comic Batman does. Hell, Nolan got pretty close to doing just that and he made a version of Batman that was meant to be realistic. And to me, action movies are different to comic book movies in that for an action movie, the story and characters is second to the action. You don't care about the story or characters, you're just going in there to watch some badass action. But in a comic book movie, it's slightly different. You do care about the characters and the story, so getting them right is significantly more important than in a standard action movie.

 

[shauner111]

Speak for yourself. I don't care if it's an action movie or within the sub-genre of superhero movies, character and story is the most important. And should be treated as the priority.

 

[LaughterLives]

When Batman kills, it's as you said, he's just a rich psycho who wears a bat costume and likes killing criminals. When he doesn't kill though, to me he's just a more interesting character. If anything, the no killing rule is a testament to the broken psyche of Bruce Wayne, who's clinging onto the no killing rule so he can tell himself he isn't Joe Chill. Would he be like Joe Chill if he did kill when necessary? Not really. But that's how Bruce would see himself. And the fact that he can't cross that line out of fear that he'd see himself in that way is just so goddamn fascinating to me. If anything, the no killing rule makes Batman crazier than if he does kill because at least if he does kill, he's rational enough that he can be realistic about what he'll have to do in order to be truly successful at protecting Gotham. That's what the no killing rule makes Batman into. A truly fragile man clinging onto anything and everything he can in order to be as different to the man who killed his parents as possible and with the idealistic naivety of an 8 year old who wants his city to be perfect when in truth...that simply isn't possible.

I'd buy this if you had said it's what makes him from becoming someone like Joker instead of Joe Chill. The way you put it doh just makes him sound insecure or stupid. It's more silly than Crazy.

Batman knows he's not Joe Chill. He doesn't have to prove that to himself, at least not if he wasn't pathetic. But I do think it's important for his image as a hero to the public eye that he doesn't kill. Kinda like that scene with the little boy in Daredevil. It's important to him that people know that he's not the bad guy.
However, I'm a big believer in using fear as a deterrent so if killing makes people fear him more whether they're Good or bad. I'm all for it.

Keaton didn't need a gun to kill people doh. Wanna know why?....Cuz HE'S BATMAN!!!

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying Batman should go out and kill every criminal that comes his way but I do think it'd be interesting if there was a method to his madness.
Kinda Like The way Cops kill Blacks cuz they discriminate. I'm not advocating this exact thing but something like it. Like maybe he kills the criminals that actually do damage to him or nearly kill him or something hahaha! But I'd be happy if they did it like Keaton. If You got in his way, it was just a matter of luck whether you live or die. hahaha!

 

[shauner111]

A batman who kills is a less interesting version of the character. And how is not killing a "character flaw". In what world is that a character flaw? That is a strength batman has over most. It defines him. Separates him.

 

[LaughterLives]

Only if it's executed that way.
If Batman has a soul then everybody he kills would haunt him. People who think killing is easy has never killed anything in their life, grew up killing things, desensitized as all hell, or has absolutely zero respect for life.

Cops see psychiatrists, Soldiers go through there stuff and so on. It'd be interesting to see how these things would effect Bruce. Someone who trained to fight but not to kill. Someone whose been fighting whats essentially a war since he put on the costume. Someone whose known the failure of not being able to save everyone, Someone he's seen maybe too much death. The Strength of his character comes from never giving up even knowing he won't win the war. Some great and dramatic stuff can come out of that with the right take.

The No Kill Rule is not what makes him interesting. Or at least not the only thing.

 

[shauner111]

I disagree 100 percent.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I do think the comics go a little overboard with the no-kill rule, periodically putting Batman in situations where he has to bend over backward to keep from taking a life. But I do prefer that to seeing Ben Affleck blow up cars full of bad guys with machine guns.

Oddly enough, Batman killing in the Burton movies never bothered me. Maybe it's just because Keaton turned in such a great performance I was willing to overlook it.

 

[BatsAndNights]

I'd buy this if you had said it's what makes him from becoming someone like Joker instead of Joe Chill. The way you put it doh just makes him sound insecure or stupid. It's more silly than Crazy.

Batman knows he's not Joe Chill. He doesn't have to prove that to himself, at least not if he wasn't pathetic. But I do think it's important for his image as a hero to the public eye that he doesn't kill. Kinda like that scene with the little boy in Daredevil. It's important to him that people know that he's not the bad guy.
However, I'm a big believer in using fear as a deterrent so if killing makes people fear him more whether they're Good or bad. I'm all for it.

Keaton didn't need a gun to kill people doh. Wanna know why?....Cuz HE'S BATMAN!!!

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying Batman should go out and kill every criminal that comes his way but I do think it'd be interesting if there was a method to his madness.
Kinda Like The way Cops kill Blacks cuz they discriminate. I'm not advocating this exact thing but something like it. Like maybe he kills the criminals that actually do damage to him or nearly kill him or something hahaha! But I'd be happy if they did it like Keaton. If You got in his way, it was just a matter of luck whether you live or die. hahaha!

Admittedly, my use of Joe Chill as an example wasn't entirely thought through. Basically what I meant by that was less Bruce's parents' killer and more what he hates most, like Joker. My bad

 

[BatsAndNights]

A batman who kills is a less interesting version of the character. And how is not killing a "character flaw". In what world is that a character flaw? That is a strength batman has over most. It defines him. Separates him.

To me it's a character flaw because it inherently dooms him to do worse at his job. When I say character flaw, I don't mean in terms of it being something I find bad with Bruce Wayne's character. The reason why I find it to be a character flaw is because as shown by examples like...just about every single member of Batman's Rogues Gallery, it's doomed to cause more problems than anything else. Now, when I say not killing, I don't mean restraining how much you kill at all. I don't think Batman would be better if he went full Punisher. I mean as in he doesn't compromise the No Killing rule at all, even in situations where let's face it, he should. But I do wanna point out once more, I don't mean it's a character flaw in that it's something I see as being bad for his character and makes the character of Bruce Wayne worse, it's quite the contrary. As a character, it makes him more interesting. I more mean as in it would be a flaw if he was a real person and whatnot.

Also, I wouldn't say it necessarily separates him. That'd be like saying the police are no different to criminals because both kill people which isn't the case at all.

 

[BatsAndNights]

The No Kill Rule is not what makes him interesting. Or at least not the only thing.

By no means am I claiming that the No Killing rule the only thing that makes Bruce Wayne interesting, of course it isn't. But it does make him more interesting if he has it.

 

[BatsAndNights]

Speak for yourself. I don't care if it's an action movie or within the sub-genre of superhero movies, character and story is the most important. And should be treated as the priority.

Maybe nowadays, but definitely not conventional action movies from the past. I'm not talking about movies like Terminator 2 here, I'm talking stuff like Commando. Are the action movies with really good story and character remembered more? Oh yeah, definitely. Doesn't mean that most action movies necessarily have the story and characters be the main priority though.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Oddly enough, Batman killing in the Burton movies never bothered me.

Nor me. I saw both of Keaton's films in the cinema when they first came out. I was in my late 20s and had been reading Batman for many years, but it never jarred with me. I still don't have a problem with it in those movies.

 

[LaughterLives]

I think the rule is more interesting for characters like Superman because of the fact that he's not human but could rule or destroy the planet if he wanted to.

Batman is Human and humans killing humans is an everyday occurrence whether on purpose or by accident. It's the cause that gets people killed that makes it interesting or could be the way they die as well. Like When Keaton Roasts the red devil in Batman Returns. We don't actually see him die but if he did, hahaha! Man! what a way to go.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Like When Keaton Roasts the red devil in Batman Returns. We don't actually see him die but if he did, hahaha! Man! what a way to go.

That's actually one of my favourite scenes!

 

[LaughterLives]

That's actually one of my favourite scenes!

I love that movie!

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

He's only being considered by fans because of his look and ability as a martial artist. He's nothing more than a b level action star. When you have to go to one of these guys (the Van Damme's of the world), then we're really scraping the bottom of the barrel when we should be aiming for the clouds. Bruce Wayne needs a great actor first and foremost. A good actor will then be able to adapt into a physical role. They don't need to already be ripped, or be a stuntman/martial artist. None of that matters. We need an actor who is skilled, who can portray two or even three sides and bring gravitas and emotion to the role. Adkins is not experienced enough.

Peoples opinions obviously vary and I respect all but I agree 100% with that.

 

[Deck Rickard]

You know what superhero Adkins should play? Snake Eyes. That way we’d never have to hear him speak or see his face.

 

[Sawyer]

That's actually not a bad suggestion.

 

[Cobblepot]

It would be good to finally see a Batman film where Batman doesn't blatenly kill. If by accident he kills then i have no real problem with it. And by accident i don't mean landing his Batmobile or tumbler on top of them. He should do is his absolute 100% best to find non-lethal ways to take out badguys. And if he does kill by accident it would be nice to see him discuss his 'failure' with Alfred back in the cave or on coms.

 

[BatsAndNights]

It would be good to finally see a Batman film where Batman doesn't blatenly kill. If by accident he kills then i have no real problem with it. And by accident i don't mean landing his Batmobile or tumbler on top of them. He should do is his absolute 100% best to find non-lethal ways to take out badguys. And if he does kill by accident it would be nice to see him discuss his 'failure' with Alfred back in the cave or on coms.

Give me a Batman where he doesn't kill, period, first. Then maybe later on when the part is recast, the accidental killing thing could be a good way to differentiate between the previous actor and the new one.

 

[LaughterLives]

I'd like to see a Batman who starts off killing but changes his ways after adopting Robin. I think that'd be interesting to see.

 

[BatsAndNights]

I'd like to see a Batman who starts off killing but changes his ways after adopting Robin. I think that'd be interesting to see.

To be fair, that actually has kinda already been done (albeit poorly) in the Burton/Schumacher movies. He started out killing in Batman 1989 and Returns, adopted Robin in Forever (and made his last kill in Two Face) and had stopped killing by Batman and Robin.

But well...there are plenty of...other reasons that wasn't exactly done too well.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Severus Snape of Star Wars universe? I see him as more fitting for Dick Grayson or Jason Todd.

Jason Todd kinda suits him.

 

[Deck Rickard]

That's actually not a bad suggestion.

Yeah, it kind of fits, doesn't it?

 

[LaughterLives]

To be fair, that actually has kinda already been done (albeit poorly) in the Burton/Schumacher movies. He started out killing in Batman 1989 and Returns, adopted Robin in Forever (and made his last kill in Two Face) and had stopped killing by Batman and Robin.

But well...there are plenty of...other reasons that wasn't exactly done too well.

Did Bruce adopt him doh? or did Dick decide to stay for a bit, Find out Bruce is Batman and kinda blackmail him into being his partner with Alfred's encouragement?
Did Bruce even Train Dick? hahaha!

I didn't see what I wanted to see.