Batman R.I.P.

[squeekness]

Of course not t: but I wanted to read 'em. I like Grant Morrison

I found his work on X-men to be less confusing, but then, I am more familiar with Marvel than DC. I've only just taken a peek at DC stuff here and there and haven't read much Batman before his run.

 

[Drz]

Batman is the only DC comic that I read, and I know next to nothing about the other DC heroes. I really hope just reading the Batman titles will be enough

Same here, all this talk about Desaad and Darkseid is truly confusing. :P (Those are suppose to be major baddies):

 

[[A]]

I found his work on X-men to be less confusing, but then, I am more familiar with Marvel than DC. I've only just taken a peek at DC stuff here and there and haven't read much Batman before his run.

Hmm I can't remember what was the first Morrison stuff I read.. bad, bad memory.

 

[GNR]

The Devil fought The Batman and The Batman won

its a shame fanboys are too busy whining about bruce getting replaced to see that this story is a tribute to Bruce Wayne....

I think the whining has more to do with being dissatisfied with a lackluster and lazy ending and just the fact that this was terrible issue in terms of storytelling and reveals.

Morrison's run has been good,but RIP has been full of nothing but shock tactics without any real substance all the way thru.

You want to see a proper death of a superhero story?brubaker's captain america,'nuff said.

 

[squeekness]

Hmm I can't remember what was the first Morrison stuff I read.. bad, bad memory.

I think he might have been the one to introduce us to Cassandra Nova in X-men. Quitely did the art which was a bit hard for me to get used to.

 

[squeekness]

I think the whining has more to do with being dissatisfied with a lackluster and lazy ending and just the fact that this was terrible issue in terms of storytelling and reveals.

Morrison's run has been good,but RIP has been full of nothing but shock tactics without any real substance all the way thru.

You want to see a proper death of a superhero story?brubaker's captain america,'nuff said.

I would have to agree. I found Batman's "death" here to be anti-climatic, probably because there was no body. You just know he's still around and all that. With Cap, he was a gonner for sure.

 

[Drz]

I found the storytelling awesome and the reveal was something of a mind****, i mean we never might know who Dr. Hurt truly is, there were rumors that this is something to do with the new gods and Darkseid but i have 0 clue who and what they are, besides that Darkseid is in Mk vs. DC =P

In the end, i guess Black Glove truly is just evil itself, a group of evil rich men who messed with the wrong billionaire playboy

PS. I think the Zorro in Arkham = Zurr Err Harr theory hit the spot tbh aswell.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

I found the storytelling awesome and the reveal was something of a mind****, i mean we never might know who Dr. Hurt truly is,

Yes, wasn't Hurt's not-revealed true identity just the most shocking revelation in the entire 70 years of Batman mythos?
Seriously, I can buy this was a good series, but good ending for Bats to go out on? Don't make me laugh.

 

[CrimsonMist]

What I'd like to know is if the Robin, Nightwing, and Outsiders tie-ins are meant to take place after FC #6, or if they're meant to take place between the end of RIP and FC.

from my reading of those tie-ins, this is how i understand it:

Robin 175 and 176: The events in these issues occur during and between Batman 678 and 679(in which the story progresses in 679). The current Robin arc takes place sometime during The Outsiders issue 12, which may be during R.I.P, too. I'm not too sure.

The Outsiders 11-13: This goes down sometime after Bruce is drugged and left in the alleyways, i think. There is a video message from Dr. Hurt assuming that he's destroyed Batman as far as he knows. and El Sombrero is with him in the video. So i imagine this is during R.I.P, but before they go to Arkham Asylum. Unless it's a late message.

Nightwing 147-150: This event takes place definitely after R.I.P, though i'm not sure how long after. I think it might be during the current Robin arc.


To get more definite answers, i guess we have to wait until all arcs are finished. Despite the check list having so many tie-ins, the stories that come after those on the checklist still tie in to RIP.

 

[Drz]

Yes, wasn't Hurt's not-revealed true identity just the most shocking revelation in the entire 70 years of Batman mythos?
Seriously, I can buy this was a good series, but good ending for Bats to go out on? Don't make me laugh.

Batman R.I.P is just another story in the long story that Grant Morrison has made, i've loved these stories since Batman and Son, even tho i hate Damian he was badasss in Batman #666

We still don't know how the story ends since we know Gotham will be withouth Batman for 6 months or so, and we see the epilogue as Bruce is going to see his parents die, and we get a strong hint that Zorro in Arkham is the meaning behind Zurr err Arrh.

EDIT: And also what if were looking at the whole Dr. Hurt = Thomas Wayne the wrong way? To me, it sounds like Dr. Hurt is more like the father of Batman, the man who murdered Thomas and Martha, which would mean hes Joe Chill but hes presumebly dead but we never did see his corpse (golden rule in comics!). And yeah someone did point that that Martha and Thomas were having black gloves on but i dunno really, Black Glove is just the entity of evil in the end. You see the religious evil, the war general, the corrupt politic, the oil driller, the engineer and whatnot. Money, Wealth, War, Corruption, Power = Black Glove.

 

[Saint]

Does anyone believe this is permanent?

I think the more appropriate question is "How long do you expect this to last?"

I think the individuals who would like it resolved in the same timeframe as Knightfall or the Death of Superman are going to be disappointed. I discount that as being very likely, as, well, it's been done, and not too long ago. I doubt anyone would be interested in repeating that pattern. I do think it would be desirable for creators or sensible for the higher-ups.

Realistically? I think all other possibilities are fair game, including the possibility that DC has absolutely no plans to bring Bruce back. I don't think DC feels particularly bound to have Bruce Wayne back in the cowl by the time Batman III hits theaters, but I also think they may do it anyway. I think this entire event may have been inspired by someone reading Brubaker's Captain America, and realizing that, hey, this sort of thing can be done. I think that the current climate for the big two dictates attempts to demonstrate an ability to effect real change. Marvel is in the lead. They've had a string of successes with moves like Civil War, Secret Invasion, and death of Captain America that have demonstrated they can competently progress their universe without alienating people. DC is still struggling with this. This may be an effort to create that sort of progression on their part.

Equally possible is that this is simply a part of some larger plan with Bruce at the end of it. I would wager longer than Knightfall but shorter than five years, as that degree of planning seems extremely unlikely.

A distinct possibly occurred to me earlier, and that is simply that DC doesn't have a plan. They may have adopted a "Wait and see" attitude. Tell a year of Dick Grayson stories, and if it doesn't fly, Bruce comes back as if it was the plan all along. I think this would be a dangerous approach: there will be venom for Batman's replacement. We've seen in this thread that, for some, the quality of the stories ahead isn't the issue--some will simply hate the books because Bruce Wayne isn't Batman in them. Even if this is a minority, it may create a kneejerk reaction at DC that kills Dick's chances as Batman. That would be bad.

 

[Saint]

from my reading of those tie-ins, this is how i understand it:

Robin 175 and 176: The events in these issues occur during and between Batman 678 and 679(in which the story progresses in 679). The current Robin arc takes place sometime during The Outsiders issue 12, which may be during R.I.P, too. I'm not too sure.

The Outsiders 11-13: This goes down sometime after Bruce is drugged and left in the alleyways, i think. There is a video message from Dr. Hurt assuming that he's destroyed Batman as far as he knows. and El Sombrero is with him in the video. So i imagine this is during R.I.P, but before they go to Arkham Asylum. Unless it's a late message.

Nightwing 147-150: This event takes place definitely after R.I.P, though i'm not sure how long after. I think it might be during the current Robin arc.


To get more definite answers, i guess we have to wait until all arcs are finished. Despite the check list having so many tie-ins, the stories that come after those on the checklist still tie in to RIP.

Yes, I think you've got a mostly accurate assessment there. Certainly all the books will be dealing with the ramifications of RIP and FC #6 until their cancellation in a couple of months, despite the fact that they aren't expressly identified as tie-ins. We can expect them all to be telling parts of the same story, as opposed to the usual routine.

 

[Spade]

I liked this last issue, but the hype surrounding Batman R.I.P. as a whole was unnecessary. This got Crisis-level promotion when it should have been presented as a natural evolution of the ongoing Batman storyline. Yes, the very nature of Batman going missing was going to generate intrigue regardless, but they didn't need to add to the increasing expectations. The ending would work fine if they'd just abstained.

 

[Saint]

I think the more appropriate question is "How long do you expect this to last?"

I think the individuals who would like it resolved in the same timeframe as Knightfall or the Death of Superman are going to be disappointed. I discount that as being very likely, as, well, it's been done, and not too long ago. I doubt anyone would be interested in repeating that pattern. I do think it would be desirable for creators or sensible for the higher-ups.

Realistically? I think all other possibilities are fair game, including the possibility that DC has absolutely no plans to bring Bruce back. I don't think DC feels particularly bound to have Bruce Wayne back in the cowl by the time Batman III hits theaters, but I also think they may do it anyway. I think this entire event may have been inspired by someone reading Brubaker's Captain America, and realizing that, hey, this sort of thing can be done. I think that the current climate for the big two dictates attempts to demonstrate an ability to effect real change. Marvel is in the lead. They've had a string of successes with moves like Civil War, Secret Invasion, and death of Captain America that have demonstrated they can competently progress their universe without alienating people. DC is still struggling with this. This may be an effort to create that sort of progression on their part.

Equally possible is that this is simply a part of some larger plan with Bruce at the end of it. I would wager longer than Knightfall but shorter than five years, as that degree of planning seems extremely unlikely.

A distinct possibly occurred to me earlier, and that is simply that DC doesn't have a plan. They may have adopted a "Wait and see" attitude. Tell a year of Dick Grayson stories, and if it doesn't fly, Bruce comes back as if it was the plan all along. I think this would be a dangerous approach: there will be venom for Batman's replacement. We've seen in this thread that, for some, the quality of the stories ahead isn't the issue--some will simply hate the books because Bruce Wayne isn't Batman in them. Even if this is a minority, it may create a kneejerk reaction at DC that kills Dick's chances as Batman. That would be bad.

An addendum: I don't suppose it was an accident that Bruce ended up with a child at this juncture. At anything other time, Bruce raising a child like Damian might be too ambitious a prospect for DC to include in a monthly series. Now, Bruce has the luxury of time and DC has the luxury of not having the detail the events in a monthly series. It seems a strong possibility that one of the things Bruce will be doing now is raising Damian.

 

[Drz]

But was the epilogue just to show where the Zurr err arrh comes from or did it possible have any greater meaning?

 

[CrimsonMist]

as much as i didn't like it, this story isn't over yet. We still have the 2 part After Effects story by Morrison, the 2 part Denny O'Neal Story and the 2 part Neil Gaiman story.

To add to that, there's the "Search For a Hero" arc currently in Robin, the Outsiders 14-15, and the Outsiders Special, Nightwing 151-153 and Robin 182-183.

Throw in Final Crisis #6, and Battle For The Cowl, too.

This story is far from over, and effects of Batman are still being felt.

At the end of all of this, this could truly be a GREAT story. As much as i've said i do not like this arc, i've greatly enjoyed all the tie-ins. And i honestly feel that there's more to be filled in. So we'll find out in the next few months, won't we?

and i just want to add: I like Damian. He's an arrogant piece of crap, and his transition from that into something much more noble should b pretty exciting to see, if handled properly.

 

[Saint]

Well, we know that Zurr-En-Arrh originated in a hallucination Batman suffered. We might assume that this is because the words "Zorro in Arkham" are lodged in his subconscious, as the last words his father spoke before their murder, and of added meaning giving Bruce's lifestyle. His mind might have then recycled these words into the hallucination, the way things that you think about during the day can get crammed sideways into your dreams. We know Zurr-En-Arrh was the trigger word Hurt used to "turn off" Batman. It may be that Hurt simply picked this word in observing Batman's hallucinatory state, because it was very unusual and wouldn't be something Bruce would hear normally--so there'd be no chance of the trigger activating prematurely.

So yes, it could very well be there as an explanation of where the term came from. That's what I suspect.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

Well, we know that Zurr-En-Arrh originated in a hallucination Batman suffered. We might assume that this is because the words "Zorro in Arkham" are lodged in his subconscious, as the last words his father spoke before their murder, and of added meaning giving Bruce's lifestyle. His mind might have then recycled these words into the hallucination, the way things that you think about during the day can get crammed sideways into your dreams. We know Zurr-En-Arrh was the trigger word Hurt used to "turn off" Batman. It may be that Hurt simply picked this word in observing Batman's hallucinatory state, because it was very unusual and wouldn't be something Bruce would hear normally--so there'd be no chance of the trigger activating prematurely.

So yes, it could very well be there as an explanation of where the term came from. That's what I suspect.

I really like this theory, it makes perfect sense here. I really hope also that his parents murders aren't revealed as hits but merely the muggings they've always been, it takes away from the fact that it is really the dark city that took their lives and not some rich guy. Also I'm still not happy that the killer is identified as Joe Chill, say what you want but I'll always imagine him as a faceless man, never caught, pretty much the personification of the desperation and filth in Gotham that so spurred Batman.

Also, as awesome as Joker was in this issue, I found it a little anticlimactic that he killed all tension by predicting Bats will rise and trunce them all easily like amatuers, it kinda destroyed the illusion that this would be a mighty struggle for me.

 

[Saint]

A fair criticism, perhaps. Personally I was more invested in seeing Batman as invincible--not just in terms of escaping traps and fighting bad guys, but mentally and spiritually invincible. Nothing phased him. All their little games, his "Boo hoo, don't hurt Jezebel" act, the psychological warfare, it all amounted to nothing, because you just can't break Batman. He didn't even flinch when Hurt claimed to be Thomas, and he didn't skip a beat when Hurt offered him his deal. There was never a chance that they were going to corrupt Batman.

The entire arc tries to tell you that Batman is breaking down, that he's--in Jezebel's words--"giving in." Robin thinks he's losing it. He's paranoid. He's his own worst enemy. He's been mentally shattered. In the end, though, he's not been hurt in the slightest. They couldn't touch him. I loved that.

The level of understanding displayed by the Joker was icing on the cake. He tries to tell them that when you try to outthink Batman, he's really just built a bigger trap around you, and you just don't know it. I also really liked the idea that the effort of trying to outthink Batman has contributed significantly to Joker's evolving psychosis, and, presumably, his transformations over the years (this latest one included). I hope other writers pick up where Morrison has left off, instead of reverting to the more traditional Joker.

 

[margon]

Well, we know that Zurr-En-Arrh originated in a hallucination Batman suffered. We might assume that this is because the words "Zorro in Arkham" are lodged in his subconscious, as the last words his father spoke before their murder, and of added meaning giving Bruce's lifestyle. His mind might have then recycled these words into the hallucination, the way things that you think about during the day can get crammed sideways into your dreams. We know Zurr-En-Arrh was the trigger word Hurt used to "turn off" Batman. It may be that Hurt simply picked this word in observing Batman's hallucinatory state, because it was very unusual and wouldn't be something Bruce would hear normally--so there'd be no chance of the trigger activating prematurely.

So yes, it could very well be there as an explanation of where the term came from. That's what I suspect.

i was thinking similar. Zur En Rah is a booby trap built in his own head. Bruce knew one day he'd come under this attack so he put ZUR in there to fool it, and it becomes the safety switch for his back-up persona.

 

[itsthebatman]

A fair criticism, perhaps. Personally I was more invested in seeing Batman as invincible--not just in terms of escaping traps and fighting bad guys, but mentally and spiritually invincible. Nothing phased him. All their little games, his "Boo hoo, don't hurt Jezebel" act, the psychological warfare, it all amounted to nothing, because you just can't break Batman. He didn't even flinch when Hurt claimed to be Thomas, and he didn't skip a beat when Hurt offered him his deal. There was never a chance that they were going to corrupt Batman.

The entire arc tries to tell you that Batman is breaking down, that he's--in Jezebel's words--"giving in." Robin thinks he's losing it. He's paranoid. He's his own worst enemy. He's been mentally shattered. In the end, though, he's not been hurt in the slightest. They couldn't touch him. I loved that.

The level of understanding displayed by the Joker was icing on the cake. He tries to tell them that when you try to outthink Batman, he's really just built a bigger trap around you, and you just don't know it. I also really liked the idea that the effort of trying to outthink Batman has contributed significantly to Joker's evolving psychosis, and, presumably, his transformations over the years (this latest one included). I hope other writers pick up where Morrison has left off, instead of reverting to the more traditional Joker.

'You truly are incorruptible.'

 

[The Batman]

I think the whining has more to do with being dissatisfied with a lackluster and lazy ending and just the fact that this was terrible issue in terms of storytelling and reveals.

Morrison's run has been good,but RIP has been full of nothing but shock tactics without any real substance all the way thru.

You want to see a proper death of a superhero story?brubaker's captain america,'nuff said.

Another reasonfor the whining is that people cant seem to comprehend that this story is not about the death of batman, and people are getting disappointed because of it....the only problem with this arc is that it was overhyped, no doubt because didio wanted it that way

 

[CaptainClown]

Another reasonfor the whining is that people cant seem to comprehend that this story is not about the death of batman, and people are getting disappointed because of it....the only problem with this arc is that it was overhyped, no doubt because didio wanted it that way

even iif this isn't about the "death" of batman it still doesn't excuse it. it is just an arc that some fans feel is inferior and could just be added as "just another batman story"

 

[The Guard]

i was thinking similar. Zur En Rah is a booby trap built in his own head. Bruce knew one day he'd come under this attack so he put ZUR in there to fool it, and it becomes the safety switch for his back-up persona.

Didn't Devin Grayson already do that years ago when Hugo Strange came to town?

 

[The Batman]

even iif this isn't about the "death" of batman it still doesn't excuse it. it is just an arc that some fans feel is inferior and could just be added as "just another batman story"

Then why are people complaining about the ending?

oh yeah...because they wanted batman to die in some spectacular death...so they can whine about that too.

if you just dont like the story, fine, but it seems like many fans hate it because of their nature to nitpick