I just want to say that I greatly appreciate people's comments not just because it flatters my fragile ego and because it offers suggestions, but because I very often generate a huge amount of ideas while reacting to criticism; criticism meaning not
bashing my ideas, but analysing them and making suggestions or pointing out flaws. My mind has been going all over the place while responding to Zev's post, so while not everything may not be pure gold, it gives more options, and some of it is definitely necessary now that it occurs to me. Again, thanks.
Zev said:
I don't know if you could have a stealth/shadow dynamic AND a free-roam system. All those shadows have to be strategically placed, those guards' patrol routes have to be programmed in... maybe you can free-roam to a location and then enter a "mission" mode for plot-based "quests" (and not just random encounters).
It would be a monstrously advanced game, on a monstrously advanced system, hopefully not sold for a monstrously expensive price. It's hypothetical; my ideal.
I also want the shadows to move when light is introduced. Passing cars, flashlights, whatever. I want it to be like Splinter Cell in that way. Again, I know nothing about computer programming, but I would think that the biggest problem for the free-roaming aspect would be to make it all appear in thermal vision. If that wasn't doable but almost everything else in the game was, I would let it go without a fight (as long as it wasn't setting a precedent for everything else to be taken away). I'm talking about a game that captures the world of the Batman as "realistically" (to the context, not necessarily to our reality) and faithfully as possible. Yes, it would be difficult. That's always going to be the case. The question is, wouldn't that be awesome? Wouldn't it be great if you could do
everything the Batman does?
That doesn't include doing hundreds of pushups and situps every day and sitting through boring business meetings (maybe just the time leading up to the meeting and the very last part before adjourning, leading up to dialogue between Bruce Wayne and others and personal interaction mini-games (which also means dialogue, but more player-directed and chosen, with consequences ranging between just extraneous dialogue to blowing your cover as a vigilante, depending on the situation and how much you've interacted with others throughout the game). No, that wasn't an exaggeration; the Batman literally does hundreds of pushups and/or situps every damn day, and other various exercises for extended periods of time. That's the benefit of having most of the day to himself so he can prepare for his night out on the town. Some people do some basic stretching before intense exercise, and some people spend hours doing insane amounts of various exercises. Either way, you won't be doing most of that sort of thing, although you will do some gymnastics, in training and in the field. Again, it supposed to be fun. Hell, they have lots of games out there where
half of what you do is gymnastics ('Prince of Persia' anyone?).
The point I'm making here is that you get the full experience, and the lulls in action aren't meant to be long stretches of boring stuff. It's supposed to be the psychological aspects of the dual identity. Some people really dig the advanced concepts behind personal interaction minigames, working with forensics evidence and equipment, and being able to explore notable locations in the world of an action hero (like Wayne Manor and Wayne Enterprises) without being attacked before they're done checking stuff out. You will probably be interrupted several times throughout the Bruce Wayne socializing scenes by learning of a situation that might need the Batman's brand of assistance or interference. That's where the whole "you get to guide Bruce through the process of covering his mysterious, unstable ass so he can go play hero" thing comes in handy the most. Also, like I've said (or will say... I'm going back and forth throughout this post and editing, and I've lost track of where certain chunks of text are), the Jim Gordon is going to question Bruce Wayne because of his suspicions of Bruce being the Batman, and will first question Alfred a couple of times while Bruce is out or "downstairs," lurking and scheming.
I don't want it to be a classic-type RPG, so I don't know about free-roaming to mission spots and only gettin' down to business once you're inside. A lot of stuff happens to and for the Batman outdoors in Gotham City.
I do want there to be random encounters with criminals, since that's what happens in the Batman's world. They may not be accurately described as "random," though. I would have more crime in areas that are known to have more crime. In richer neighborhoods, there's less likelihood of outdoors robberies, so the Batman probably shouldn't be hanging around there (unless he's home out in Gotham County, of course, but he should be outside and in the City for a good chunk of each night. He'll have to return to one of his bases at some point anyway, so he should try to get a lot done each night.
Anyway, it wouldn't just be unforseen run-ins with crooks out there. I don't know if you've played either of the 'True Crime' games, but those are about rough-and-tumble cops who roam around their respective cities (L.A., NYC) and respond to dispatch reports resulting from 911 calls. The Batman taps into the police band constantly, so that would be happening in '
Batman: Dark Knight Detective' (I'm gonna heretofore refer to it as
B
KD, because it's getting as annoying to keep typing it as it is for you to read about it). Often you would try to get there as soon as possible, both to help out as early as possible to save lives, and to get in, kick ass, and get out before the cops get there. If they show up and you're still there, it's not necessarily a bad thing, but the Batman does try to do this when possible, so you get more points awarded for that (yes, I've decided there's going to be points, but you won't see them on the screen anywhere unless you go to a menu and check your statistics). Wait... if this is going to be based on the first movie of Zaphod's and my Batman movie franchise, you damn well better get out before the cops show up! They're out for your ass as much as to brutalize criminals and extort citizens, so yeah, you don't ever want to run in to them if you don't have to, unless you're good enough to take them down without getting shot. This would actually give you more time in some cases, as most police in Gotham in Year One aren't really that eager to help people other than themselves. If it's a big shootout with lots of armed goons, you'll probably have more time than in other cases, but when the cops
do get there, it's going to be extremely dangerous, because it will probably be that trigger-happy, bomb-dropping warlord who commands the SWAT unit, Sergeant Branden, who was going to completely screw up that hostage sitation in Frank Millers 'Batman: Year One,' until Gordon stepped in, told him to back off and saved the day while risking his life. So yeah, you want to avoid running into cops if you don't have to, unless you're sneaking up on them to quietly force them to take a nap. You also don't want to be seen doing that by anybody, but in cases like the one where the Batman attacked Detective Flass and a whole bunch of known criminals during a drug-smuggling errand, it may not be avoidable. You just have to make sure you do things as dramatically and frighteningly as possible in the time you have. Wait, I don't think there were any other police during that encounter... oh well.
Anyway, there would be various missions (far more than there were in 'Year One'), 911 calls, and run-ins (like muggings , assaults, drug-peddling, etc.) with crooks and crooked cops. That's what happens in the city at night. Oh, I forgot, there would also be run-ins with dead bodies or injured people sometimes, and you would try to solve the case before the police declare it solved or unsolvable. That's where some forensic evidence would come in. The CSI stuff would happen for various specific missions as well. For a lot of missions, or even certain "random" calls, there would often be indoor environments that are elaborate and detailed. I'm probably forgetting stuff, but for now that should give a better idea of what goes on. It's supposed to be less repetitive and pointless as in 'Spider-Man 2,' but it's also more difficult, because the Batman doesn't move as fast as Spider-Man and he can't take a lot of gunshot wounds.
Only problem I see here is... why would anyone want to play as Bruce Wayne or Alfred Pennyworth when they could be Batman? I don't know if you played the Hulk movie game, but every so often they'd interrupt the fun of rampaging as the Hulk with forcing the player to sneak around as Bruce Banner. I was like "WTF?"
Maybe brief "interactive cutscenes" between missions where the players, as Bruce or Alfred, can have conversations like in the old Lucasarts or Sierra adventures games. Remember those, before everything became "stare at Lara Croft's ass while you pull blocks around"?
I'd give anything to hear Bruce say "How appropriate, you fight like a cow" (he said, establishing his geek credentials).
I'm not talking about having Bruce Wayne push boxes around (unless we wanted game levels where he puts the Batcave together from separate components... no? Well, then I got nothin'...). For the training/origin levels, you wouldn't wear the costume and for the most part wouldn't have all the Batman's gadgets at once. I know, that's annoying, but it's
faithful. To compensate for the full missions you do as pre-Batsuit Bruce, there's a lot of post-Batsuit stuff to keep a reasonable Bruce/Batman ratio (something like for every 1 whatever for Bruce, there's at least 4 whatever for the Batman). Anyway, there's the origin levels, and then there's the Year One timeframe, where Bruce Wayne works to keep his secret identity from Lt. James Gordon and everyone else. I don't know if you're ever played 'Indigo Prophecy' or 'Farenheight' (they're the same game, named differently in different places), but it featured minigames where you did social interactions, and one of the characters you play as is trying to keep secrets from others. You choose what kind of response you want to give at certain times, and you either do a good job, do a passable job, or screw it up and have to start again from a save point. It's one of the psychological elements of the game. It's the life of the Batman.
For Alfred, I figure there will be one mandatory mission where you play him and have him drive out to Gotham City and pick up an injured Batman. If this game is based on Zaphod's and my Year One movie, then there won't even be the option of having the Batman summon the Batmobile to him to climb in and let the computer drive him home. His car isn't automated at that point. By the second movie, that option should be available for the game, and then Alfred would only have to come for you if you couldn't climb into the car or are in a place where the car can't get close enough and you can't get to it. Anyway, yeah, it's a "Fetch the Beat-up Batman" mission. The other thing is that I wanted Alfred to also have the personal interact minigame where he covers for Bruce. That kind of thing. I don't mean pushing boxes around and solving idiotic block puzzles as Bruce Wayne or Alfred. At least I'm pretty sure there'd be nothing that pointless. I haven't figured everything out yet, but my intent is to have the only things that aren't outright "exciting" in the action sense be stuff that is integral to the Batman mythos and for the sake of completeness.
To be continued...
I only came across this thread today and I was relieved to find a sanctuary... I was just kicking up my feet
