Better Trilogy: TDK or Captain America?

[Erzengel]

I'm not sure that I follow what you're saying here. Yes, Rises is viewed as a weak link by fans (not that I agree). But given its 87% RT score (and I can't confirm this but I recall it being closer to 90% in 2012), 90% audience score, made over a billion dollars, and the fact that it leaked into pop culture with the way Bane became a popular villain and meme... I don't think it really compares to Thor: The Dark World, X-Men: Apocalypse, XMTLS, TFA, etc.



... My point is that all superhero movie's plots (with maybe not Logan's? I haven't really thought about it until just now... ANYWAY) can be picked at the way Rises is, because it is viewed as weaker. But to use TDK as an example: how did the Joker get explosives inside every floor of that 24-hour hospital without anyone noticing?; Gordon faking his death seemed moot as he was never targeted; why are Gordon and Batman aware of Two-Face's body count? etc.

I feel like Rises, while it has its flaws, is put in the hot seat more aggressively than most superhero movies, never mind the ones that don't take themselves as seriously as Nolan.

The last I'll say about it (as it's late and I think I'm rambling) is that all the things its critics claimed Rises was we got a few years later when Zack Snyder tried to make his big important films Man of Steel and Batman v Superman.

TDKR and TFA while the weak links of their respective franchises are still held in higher regard than the weak links of the other trilogies and because of the "dropping" of the ball in one or sometimes two of the movies in each series, the drop off between 1 & 2 and say 3 (which I did a poll) and it appears Spider-Man at least on here seems to be the next best trilogy.

 

[Awest66]

Yeah, because it totally needs to be proved, lol

Again. According to the data, These transactions were made months in advance of the actual attack and fraud could be proven just not immediately.

There's difference between unbelievable technology (time travel etc.) and complete lack of common sense

I don't really see the point here. Yeah she has a paper file but it doesn't really matter because she was gonna leave the city and her previous occupation behind after she had used the program.

Weak excuse.

Care to elaborate?

Someone.

Doesn't exactly negate my point. Bruce isn't a world-famous figure outside of Gotham city. It's like fan4stic said, it'd be like an "Elvis sighting".

There's enough time for a kiss, though.

Again, What's your point exactly? Catwoman saved Batman's life, when she didn't have too. That is what he rightfully focused on.

These point's are really nitpicky.

 

[Hammer!]

Dark Knight is viewed as a crime movie rather than a superhero movie, yet the logical fallacies in Rises is brushed away as “it’s a superhero movie, who cares if nothing makes sense” or “cuz he’s da Batman”. Dark Knight is tightly written, expertly crafted. Rises is not and falls flat under all the things that made the first two great.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Dark Knight is viewed as a crime movie rather than a superhero movie, yet the logical fallacies in Rises is brushed away as “it’s a superhero movie, who cares if nothing makes sense” or “cuz he’s da Batman”. Dark Knight is tightly written, expertly crafted. Rises is not and falls flat under all the things that made the first two great.

Mentioned earlier in this thread but I think it ties in with what is being said, Rises relied on being 'the conclusion', the emotion of the audience knowing it was the last film got 'it through', the actual quality too the previous 2 films is for me, missing but I think it's carried through by the fact of the audience knowing its the end and so buys its 'love' on that.

 

[Awest66]

, yet the logical fallacies in Rises is brushed away as “it’s a superhero movie, who cares if nothing makes sense”

Or maybe, just maybe, These so-called "logical fallicies" aren't as big a deal as there made out to be or not really found to be all that substantial when weighed against it's obvious strengths. (shocking I know)

 

[Adhesive Boy]

Dark Knight is viewed as a crime movie rather than a superhero movie, yet the logical fallacies in Rises is brushed away as “it’s a superhero movie, who cares if nothing makes sense” or “cuz he’s da Batman”. Dark Knight is tightly written, expertly crafted. Rises is not and falls flat under all the things that made the first two great.

I'd disagree that a crime movie that, already in the first scene, has to make the cops so stupid that they can't even draw a red line between a school bus sized hole in a bank and a school bus covered in dust slowly driving away from the scene is tightly written. There's more such things in TDK that good crime movies just don't struggle with.

 

[fan4stic]

There's difference between unbelievable technology (time travel etc.) and complete lack of common sense. By the way, the emitter is also quite stupid by comic book movie standards.

And this fits unbelievable tech as far as I see.

Someone.

Not to mention that it wouldn't effect anything if he was found to be alive or it would more than likely be treated like an Elvis sighting.

There's enough time for a kiss, though. And listening to the rant before the embarrassing death scene of Talia.

Why would he for stopping Bane from killing him? It's not like he rants at Gordon and the cops everytime they kill a criminal in defense of others.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I'm pretty sure they show Bane's men sending them supplies to live off of as Bane says that police will live as they're taught true justice, likely to maintain his revolution facade.

When Batman returned, they threw a grenade at them.

 

[fan4stic]

When Batman returned, they threw a grenade at them.

They dropped it in the grate, but that wouldn't kill them all.

 

[a user]

I love The Dark Knight trilogy more, but being one who prefers Civil War over The Winter Soldier, I can compare Captain America to the Fistful of Dollars trilogy in each sequel being better than the previous releases. My ranking would be...

#1- The Dark Knight
#2- Captain America: Civil War
#3- Captain America: The Winter Soldier
#4- The Dark Knight Rises
#5- Batman Begins
#6- Captain America: The First Avenger

 

[The_Manhunter]

Well, the best movie out of all 6 is TDK, and the worst is TFA, by some distance, though it's certainly not a bad movie.

But this amoung other things is why TDKT wins for me.

Agree. I know it's opinion, but I can't see how so many people voted for the Cap trilogy. It's good, don't get me wrong, but TDKT is on a whole different level in my view.

 

[Havok83]

Agree. I know it's opinion, but I can't see how so many people voted for the Cap trilogy. It's good, don't get me wrong, but TDKT is on a whole different level in my view.

Easy. Those Batman films were overrated and the only one I truly enjoyed was the second one. Didnt like Batman Begins. TDKR wasnt bad but it was nowhere as good as TDK. On the flipside, I enjoyed all the Cap films. TFA, not so much at first but it works better knowing what comes after. TWS and CW rank up there as top 5 best comic films for me so those tilt the trilogy for the win. TWS was a major improvement and that quality wasnt surpassed with CW, but rather maintained. Overall very solid narrative told from first film through the third. The only bad thing I can say about the trilogy is that CW tied too much into the Avengers so it wasnt as standalone that it could have been and therefore wasnt final

 

[The_Manhunter]

Easy. Those Batman films were overrated and the only one I truly enjoyed was the second one. Didnt like Batman Begins. TDKR wasnt bad but it was nowhere as good as TDK. On the flipside, I enjoyed all the Cap films. TFA, not so much at first but it works better knowing what comes after. TWS and CW rank up there as top 5 best comic films for me so those tilt the trilogy for the win. TWS was a major improvement and that quality wasnt surpassed with CW, but rather maintained. Overall very solid narrative told from first film through the third. The only bad thing I can say about the trilogy is that CW tied too much into the Avengers so it wasnt as standalone that it could have been and therefore wasnt final

I don't get how a solid narrative is maintained. The third film in the trilogy is more of an Avengers movie than a Cap movie. I'd also argue that TWS is more of a SHIELD movie starring Cap that a true Cap movie.

 

[Havok83]

I don't get how a solid narrative is maintained. The third film in the trilogy is more of an Avengers movie than a Cap movie. I'd also argue that TWS is more of a SHIELD movie starring Cap that a true Cap movie.

It follows Bucky and Cap's relationship from TFA and TWS. The plotline builds on that and its core to the motivation of the main protagonist

 

[honestbharani]

I don't get how a solid narrative is maintained. The third film in the trilogy is more of an Avengers movie than a Cap movie. I'd also argue that TWS is more of a SHIELD movie starring Cap that a true Cap movie.

Do you mean to say a solild narrative was maintained in TDKR?? That movie was all over the place, much more than any of the other 5 involved in this discussion were. I rank both WS and CW at the same level as TDK and that alone puts the Cap trilogy above the Nolan one for me.

 

[The_Manhunter]

Do you mean to say a solild narrative was maintained in TDKR?? That movie was all over the place, much more than any of the other 5 involved in this discussion were. I rank both WS and CW at the same level as TDK and that alone puts the Cap trilogy above the Nolan one for me.

I'll start by saying I'm not attacking anyone's opinion. BvS is my favorite comic book movie so I'm not gonna get harsh on anyone for having an opinion.

I just disagree emphatically that WS is even close to TDK. I can see an argument for CW due to the sheer juggling act it managed pull off, but I think TWS, while a pretty good movie, is not in that arena. I'd rank these 6 films:

1) The Dark Knight (10/10)
2) Captain America: Civil War (9.5/10)
3) The Dark Knight Rises (9.5/10)

4) Captain America: The Winter Soldier (9/10)
5) Batman Begins (9/10)

6) Captain America: The First Avenger (8/10)

 

[Erzengel]

^
But even by your scoring, TDKT is only higher than the CAT by 2 points. So that would at least be the same ballpark.

 

[honestbharani]

I'll start by saying I'm not attacking anyone's opinion. BvS is my favorite comic book movie so I'm not gonna get harsh on anyone for having an opinion.

I just disagree emphatically that WS is even close to TDK. I can see an argument for CW due to the sheer juggling act it managed pull off, but I think TWS, while a pretty good movie, is not in that arena. I'd rank these 6 films:

1) The Dark Knight (10/10)
2) Captain America: Civil War (9.5/10)
3) The Dark Knight Rises (9.5/10)

4) Captain America: The Winter Soldier (9/10)
5) Batman Begins (9/10)

6) Captain America: The First Avenger (8/10)

We gotta agree to disagree. To me, WS and TDK both achieved something pretty amazing - made me care for, empathize and sympathize with a character that was never really my kind of superhero. I would say TDK fleshed out its socio-political commentary a bit more than WS (only a bit) but WS had much better action scenes and at the end of the day, both are at the top echelons of the genre.

I would go like this:

Civil War - 10
Winter Soldier - 10
Dark Knight - 10
First Avenger - 9
Batman Begins - 9
Dark Knight Rises - 7

 

[The Batman]

Easy. Those Batman films were overrated

In this neck of the woods, The Cap Trilogy is even more overrated than the Nolan films.

 

[BigThor]

Tie

 

[Hammer!]

After recently rewatching all six it’s super close. Dark Knight is just a step up from every superhero movie ever made so far. Begins is really good but doesn’t hold up as much anymore since there’s been so many origin movies as good, nearly good, or better. Rises just simply drops the ball though. So still giving this to Cap, even though the first two Nolan films have a noticeable gap on the first two cap films.

 

[Hammer!]

WB dropped the ball and should have let someone else make it and not end the franchise. Should have gotten a new director and had this be the start of their cinematic universe. Especially given what we got with Nolan on this, but even if Rises was a really good, solid movie I would have gone with someone else.

 

[The Batman]

What a terrible idea, even more terrible since we all know how WB actually dropped the ball with their DCEU series.

I'm happy as hell Nolan had the guts to end his Batman, and I'm glad WB let him. A rare example of good decision making from them.

 

[The Shape]

WB dropped the ball and should have let someone else make it and not end the franchise. Should have gotten a new director and had this be the start of their cinematic universe. Especially given what we got with Nolan on this, but even if Rises was a really good, solid movie I would have gone with someone else.

Thank God you weren't in charge, then.

 

[FunkMiller]

WB dropped the ball and should have let someone else make it and not end the franchise. Should have gotten a new director and had this be the start of their cinematic universe. Especially given what we got with Nolan on this, but even if Rises was a really good, solid movie I would have gone with someone else.

They dropped the ball on a movie that cleared a billion?

No. I don’t think so.

Your idea that they should have spun a DCEU from Nolan’s movies is falling into the same trap that WB themselves have done - namely that you need to create a shared universe, copying Marvel. You don’t.

The Dark Knight trilogy should have been the template for stand alone trilogies of DC’s other characters. That would’ve worked much better.