Better Trilogy: TDK or Captain America?

[The Joker]

What world the characters originate or come from prior to Civil War doesn't matter. They're still supporting characters within the narrative of Civil War who's actions are guided by the decisions Captain America ultimately makes. Yes, Vision and Wanda have their own arcs as to why they should be on side A or B, but the fact they have that choice comes down to the effect Captain America's choices and actions have upon them. They're forced into those decisions by the plot, the same way Sam Wilson was forced into becoming Falcon in TWS or Hulk had to leave Sakaar in Raganarok to join Thor, etc. Fame/loyalty to the character has no bearing on plot or story structure. Maybe it does on the way the audience perceives the movie, as evident in the confusion over the movie, but based on their actual roles in the movies characters like Widow or Vision are exactly the same as Sharon Carter or any other more traditionally thought of supporting character.

Of course the world they come from matters. There's a big difference between looking at Stark, Wanda, Romanov, Rhodey, Ant-Man etc in Civil War, and watching characters like Nakia and Okoye in BP. The former makes it feel like an Avengers piece with heroes from different walks coming together in a narrative. The latter is simply BP characters in a BP story. Your Raganork analogy is a good example of why that is not ever considered as feeling like an Avengers movie, while CW is. Thor dominates that movie, despite Hulk being in there in a supporting role. The cast are predominately of Thor's world.

You keep citing the narrative structure of CW coming from Cap's actions. Again nobody disputed that. Its how that narrative weaves in so many major MCU heroes with their own arcs that makes it feel like Avengers 2.5, rather than a Cap movie.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Of course the world they come from matters. There's a big difference between looking at Stark, Wanda, Romanov, Rhodey, Ant-Man etc in Civil War, and watching characters like Nakia and Okoye in BP. The former makes it feel like an Avengers piece with heroes from different walks coming together in a narrative. The latter is simply BP characters in a BP story. Your Raganork analogy is a good example of why that is not ever considered as feeling like an Avengers movie, while CW is. Thor dominates that movie, despite Hulk being in there in a supporting role. The cast are predominately of Thor's world.

You keep citing the narrative structure of CW coming from Cap's actions. Again nobody disputed that. Its how that narrative weaves in so many major MCU heroes with their own arcs that makes it feel like Avengers 2.5, rather than a Cap movie.

Which goes back to my original point: This entire argument you're presenting is based on window dressing and false perceptions because of existing bias and loyalty other characters have from past films. Not from CW itself, because CW's actual structure doesn't support the argument. As evidences by the fact you even agree with me on how the story is formatted. If the story is formatted as a Cap movie, it is a Cap movie.

 

[The Joker]

Which goes back to my original point: This entire argument you're presenting is based on window dressing and false perceptions because of existing bias and loyalty other characters have from past films. Not from CW itself, because CW's actual structure doesn't support the argument. As evidences by the fact you even agree with me on how the story is formatted. If the story is formatted as a Cap movie, it is a Cap movie.

Yes, I do agree it is formatted as a Cap movie. That is a fact nobody should even try to deny. But it doesn't feel like one because of how the narrative weaves in an ensemble of many major MCU heroes with their own arcs. Which is why its easy to see why its commonly labelled as Avengers 2.5 rather than Cap 3. Which is ultimately the point. A lot of people just don't feel like they are watching Cap 3.

I'd even go so far as to say the heroes' portrayal in CW are more interesting than they were in in either of the previous two Avengers movies. Even Stark was far more riveting than he was in two of his own solo movies (IM2 and 3). Again that is a big compliment to CW to be able to do that in an ensemble piece.

 

[Another_Fool]

@The Joker yea. Sure he got decent development and the character served his purpose well, but really you take him out of the movie and it changes very little. The characters that break the movie if they are gone are Cap, Tony, Zemo, and Bucky.

 

[Herofan]

So since the backbone of TDK is about Harvey Dent, does that mean it's not really a Batman movie, it's a "Harvey Dent movie"?

I think that's a fair view, it's more of a Harvey Dent movie or instead just a Gotham City ensemble film. A film having an ensemble cast can make for a really good story but it's also easy to feel unfocused.

I'm not sure how much CA should even be considered a trilogy in that CW left a whole lot open (would Steve and Tony reunite against a later big threat very probably so but if so what and how, how would Steve and the other fugitives deal with being and operating as fugitives, if there was a reunion how might Tony's status be changed, would Bucky later be revived probably, if so what would Black Panther do), to be continued later, and it also stems so much and feels so much like a sequel to Age of Ultron (with both the governments and Zemo reacting to Sokovia), more than to TWS.

But while CW didn't feel like an ending, TDKR felt too much like an ending after having too much of the middle of the character's story left out, skimmed over (Batman began and was active for a year, then years later came back and had his final fights).

 

[Primal Slayer]

It's hard to choose since TDK had a complete trilogy whereas CA is far from complete due to setting up other Marvel movies. But in the end I'd probably choose CA.

 

[noob]

The Dark Knight
Captain America: The Winter Soldier
Batman Begins
The Dark Knight Rises
Captain America: Civil War
Captain America: The First Avenger

 

[Another_Fool]

I feel like I'm one of the very small few who think TDKR is better than Batman Begins. In fact its funny, my opinion on the level of quality of the films is the same for both the TDK and Cap trilogies, in that the first film is my least favorite, the second being the best entry and the third being a slight step down but still an excellent film.

 

[Neil McCauley]

Two truly fantastic trilogies.

1) The Dark Knight 10/10

2) The Winter Soldier 9.5/10

3) Begins 9+ our of 10

3.5) Civil War / Rises 9/10 (should be equal to TDKR tbh)

4) The First Avenger 7/10

Voting for Batman since TFA is a massive weak link, but I can see an argument for either CW/TWS to be on par or better than any of the TDK trilogy. Love all 5 films.

 

[noob]

TDK has the lead now after 4 years