Bought/Thought January 28th *spoilers*

You expect a readership that's too dense to get Final Crisis to be able to enjoy something that slightly high-concept?

Be fair, Morrison isn't exactely an easy read plus if you didn't read every tie in and Batman RIP you couldn't understand everything in it. Go hand that book to the smartest noncomic reader you know, without the tieins and see if they can understand what's going on besides the absolute basics.



And yes if they used better villians along with better writing and tried to not explain how the three were a trinity in every freaking page then more people would probably like the book. But then that would just make it better.
 
Be fair, Morrison isn't exactely an easy read plus if you didn't read every tie in and Batman RIP you couldn't understand everything in it. Go hand that book to the smartest noncomic reader you know, without the tieins and see if they can understand what's going on besides the absolute basics.
If they're as smart as I think they are, they'll recognize that the story isn't about events, and is more about artistic/literary experimentation and revolution. It's not just another journalistic recap of events in a fictional world, it's a piece of genuine art.
 
Ok, so it's about experimentation, it still means they don't know what the **** actually is going on without the tie ins and such, which means while they like myself get that they're seeing a fine piece of art, revolutionary if you will, they're not really being told a story and that kinda takes away from the event as a whole.

I don't mind abstract stories and concepts, I'm a fan of Burroughs, but I still shouldn't have to buy a bunch of extra material just to read a story fully. Research is fine, but he went past that. I had to ask some friends reading the tie ins so I could get the complete picture. Also showing the aftermath before hand robs the story of the impact just like it did in SI 8. Morrison's great and all, but without proper editting and oversight he's kinda like the antiBendis and that's not a good thing either.
 
Part III: X-Men

X-Force #11

With the guest-arc by artists Mike Choi and Sonia Oback over, Clayton Crain is back as the primary artist for the series, and the series suffers for it. Crain’s style of computer-painted pencilling was one of the major drawbacks for the first arc of the series; his characters have a rather limited range of expressions, and a rather plastic look. Of course, most of this issue isn’t by him, but by Alina Urusov. The actual story is Warpath recounting the story of Eli Bard (nee Eliaphas) as related to him by the gods of the Apache: he was a poor peon in pre-imperial Rome, living in a weird (and not explained) situation where he is a pawn of a wealthy woman named Aurelia and her lover, and, despairing of this, fell in with Selene, the future Black Queen of the Hellfire Club, in part of a plot to try and make her into a goddess at the cost of thousands of Romans. This fails, and Selene blames him, cursing him to live forever, and desperate to get back into her good graces by helping her repeat the spell (I’m not clear why she couldn’t do this spell again beforehand, since Eliaphas didn’t actually bring anything to the plot). It’s a decent origin, with nice Urusov art, and it’s nice to see Selene back (I’ll be interested to see how Wither will fit into this dynamic). I just wish someone other than Crain was the primary artist.

X-Men: Worlds Part #4

Chris Yost’s other X-Men project of the week wraps up, a four-part Storm miniseries that aims to address the character’s recent identity issues and the marriage to Black Panther. That was a bad idea from the start, since it didn’t succeed at propping up the Panther’s book any (he’s on the verge of being replaced all-together, possibly by Storm herself; not a great moment for either of them, potentially), and it’s dragged Storm far away from her true home, the X-Men, though the books have now started just having her hang around without bothering to include any dialogue about what caused her to visit from Wakanda. Yost has chosen as the villain of the piece the Shadow King; it’s a fairly generic encounter for most of the way (Claremont has done more than enough possession stories with the character), though the way he’s dispatched is innovative. Yost writes Storm fairly well, but there’s nothing particularly special here. Apart from perhaps the art, which is excellent. I hope to see more from this artist in the future; he’d be a great replacement for Greg Land (well, almost anyone would be a great replacement for Greg Land).
 
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Ok, so it's about experimentation, it still means they don't know what the **** actually is going on without the tie ins and such, which means while they like myself get that they're seeing a fine piece of art, revolutionary if you will, they're not really being told a story and that kinda takes away from the event as a whole.
And I think this is 100% because it's a DCU story. Take it out of that context and you'd have no problems with it. So ask yourself: why are we that insular that true artistry and experimentation can only happen outside of our Big Two universes?

I don't mind abstract stories and concepts, I'm a fan of Burroughs, but I still shouldn't have to buy a bunch of extra material just to read a story fully. Research is fine, but he went past that. I had to ask some friends reading the tie ins so I could get the complete picture.
I don't see why. The only tie-ins that would have really enhanced your understanding were the Superman Beyond issues. Batman Last Rites would have been good to read as well, and then after that Submit/Resist. After that, the rest of them served to organically add new layers to the work, but they didn't expand or explicate it.

Except Rage of the Red Lanterns, which was good, but had nothing to do with Final Crisis. Not even thematically. It was just an issue of Green Lantern. They should have just put it out as an extra issue of Green Lantern.
 
And I think this is 100% because it's a DCU story. Take it out of that context and you'd have no problems with it. So ask yourself: why are we that insular that true artistry and experimentation can only happen outside of our Big Two universes?

Nah, confusing is confusing, and missing plot points are missing plot points no matter who does it. Don't get me wrong, I liked FC, but I needed to borrow books to get the actual story and that's messed up.

I don't see why. The only tie-ins that would have really enhanced your understanding were the Superman Beyond issues. Batman Last Rites would have been good to read as well, and then after that Submit/Resist. After that, the rest of them served to organically add new layers to the work, but they didn't expand or explicate it.

Except Rage of the Red Lanterns, which was good, but had nothing to do with Final Crisis. Not even thematically. It was just an issue of Green Lantern. They should have just put it out as an extra issue of Green Lantern.

No, revelations and RIP was also needed to understand some of the events. You probably didn't notice cause you probably read it, but if you didn't read it you would have been confused, trust me. When every single review you read mentions just how confusing it is there's something wrong. This was not a good book for anyone without advanced knowledge of the DCU so it limited it's readership potential as well. Not saying I want everything dumbed down, but there's nothing wrong with making the thing accessable.
 
Incredible Hercules was made of win all over.

Avengers: The Initiative was, if I may create a word on the fly here, Thor-tastic. Which is inherently made of win.

That is all.
 
Nah, confusing is confusing, and missing plot points are missing plot points no matter who does it. Don't get me wrong, I liked FC, but I needed to borrow books to get the actual story and that's messed up.
I keep hearing about these "missing plot points" and no one can tell me why they damaged the story in any way by not being there.

No, revelations and RIP was also needed to understand some of the events. You probably didn't notice cause you probably read it, but if you didn't read it you would have been confused, trust me.
What was in Revelations that you needed to know about for Final Crisis? And I realize that maybe you wanted to know where Batman was for all those issues, but you didn't need to know what he was doing. You didn't need to know any of this stuff. You wanted to know, because you, like me and everyone else here, are a trained comic book reader who has been conditioned to think that any story in the Big Two universes has to be a complete. recitation. of facts.

When every single review you read mentions just how confusing it is there's something wrong.
I hate to say it, but there's more wrong with comic book readers than there is with Final Crisis.

This was not a good book for anyone without advanced knowledge of the DCU so it limited it's readership potential as well.
Again, why? What did you need to know about the DCU to enjoy Final Crisis?
 
I've been reading a good 50% of what DC puts out for the past 2-3 years, and I found myself confused by what's been going on in Final Crisis. (Plus, I got and read all the tie-ins and what has been happening in RIP.) I found the book hops around way too much, is extremely confusing, and fails to deliver the emotional punch it should. (For example, when Martian Manhunter was killed, it was done with little emotional impact to the reader. It wasn't until I read the one-shot devoted to his death that I appreciated what had happened.)

Also, even more so in RIP, the transition between issues was done very poorly. I felt like parts of the story were missing, and many times I felt like I must have missed an issue, even though I hadn't.

Also, what happened in Countdown was made almost irrelevant with Final Crisis. We experienced the "death of the New Gods," and the rebirth sure wasn't that long or hard to do.

Finally, while DC had tie-ins for Final Crisis, they could have done a much better job by having it tie-in with the main titles. It felt as if stuff happening in Final Crisis didn't correlate with anything else happening in the DCU. (Plus, it made events in Trinity really irrelevant!)
 
Final Crisis wasn't diluted or decompressed. Yes, we should all condemn it. Angrily.
 
You expect a readership that's too dense to get Final Crisis to be able to enjoy something that slightly high-concept?

That's the insulting part of the argument of why Final Crisis is so good; those who enjoy it are telling those of us who don't that we are "too dense" to appreciate it. A "high-concept" is not hard to grasp if it is told well enough. This title almost needed Cliff Notes to accompany it more than any Shakespeare play I've ever read.
 
I've been reading a good 50% of what DC puts out for the past 2-3 years, and I found myself confused by what's been going on in Final Crisis. (Plus, I got and read all the tie-ins and what has been happening in RIP.) I found the book hops around way too much, is extremely confusing, and fails to deliver the emotional punch it should.
A nonlinear narrative isn't that hard to decode. That's so old it isn't even experimentation anymore, it's a well-established literary tool. The fact that comic book fans can't grasp it really does make us a scene of ignorant troglodytes.

(For example, when Martian Manhunter was killed, it was done with little emotional impact to the reader. It wasn't until I read the one-shot devoted to his death that I appreciated what had happened.)
Why do you need a long, drawn-out grieving process to appreciate that a superhero was murdered? Screw that Bendis crap!

Also, even more so in RIP, the transition between issues was done very poorly. I felt like parts of the story were missing, and many times I felt like I must have missed an issue, even though I hadn't.
What was missing that you needed? What no one seems to be grasping here is that this story wasn't about a rote recitation of events that occurred in some fictional universe, it was about telling a story. It was about the art and craft, not about being a fictional newspaper. Bob Dylan once told Phil Ochs, "You're not a songwriter, you're a journalist." While I disagree with his assessment of Ochs' work, the point he made was essential--there are two kinds of expression: artistic and journalistic. Grant Morrison is an artist. Geoff Johns and Brian Bendis are journalists. Don't expect art to be journalism, and don't expect journalism to be art. I don't impugn Infinite Crisis because it didn't do anything to advance comics as an art form, and I won't impugn Final Crisis because it wasn't a typical event comic.

Also, what happened in Countdown was made almost irrelevant with Final Crisis.
You should have known that going in.

Finally, while DC had tie-ins for Final Crisis, they could have done a much better job by having it tie-in with the main titles. It felt as if stuff happening in Final Crisis didn't correlate with anything else happening in the DCU.
Maybe if they hadn't taken such a bath doing that with Countdown, they would have. But I think they felt understandably skittish. Yes, that was more the fault of Countdown being such a mess, but there was a huge backlash against what was seen as too much interconnectedness, so Dan Didio gave the fans what they asked for, and kept it contained. Besides, again, it wasn't supposed to be just another document of facts that occurred in the DCU, and mainline tie-ins probably would have diluted that message.
 
A "high-concept" is not hard to grasp if it is told well enough. This title almost needed Cliff Notes to accompany it more than any Shakespeare play I've ever read.
Why. Why. Why. No one can tell me why.
 
Part IV: Other Stuff

Fantastic Four #563

Mark Millar and Bryan Hitch’s run on Fantastic Four hits issue #10, with the focus being primarily on Ben’s impending marriage to Debbie Green, the teacher he met in the first issue of the run. This is one of weaker aspects of the run; Millar’s introduced some interesting concepts and minor stuff (Nu-World, the Fantastic Force), and one fairly significant character change that works really, really well (Valeria being a genius, which gives the character a real role in the Fantastic Four’s world beyond being Richards Kid #2); Debbie, though, is potentially the biggest change to the status quo, but paradoxically one that we’ve seen the least of. Ben met her, we’re told they’ve dated for a while, mainly off-panel, and now he’’s proposing. Debbie’s generically nice, but there’s nothing particularly distinctive about her (indeed, her concept is partially that she’s got no connections to the superhuman world at all, though this issue hints at a more real-world problem); at most, she might add a "normal" perspective to the group, though that sort of thing wears off eventually the more you get immersed in the world. Anyway, though, this arc is finally giving her a bit of focus, and Millar mines the idea of a normal person marrying into the world’s most famous family for some nice commentary (it’s like marrying into the Royal Family, except with the added bonus of supervillains). We also get a more extended look at the Masters of Doom, two mysterious figures who tutored Doom in the ways of evil at that monastery he stayed at in his origin story; they’re still seen only from a distance, so there’s not much too them yet beyond being really, really powerful (similar to Ultimate Magneto, Millar’s writing something of a Pure Villain here, rather than someone with a more human motivation; they just like killing people). Hitch’s art continues to be strong, though they’re using multiple inkers to solve the inking delay problem, which can be noticeable in places; he’s apparently going to be sticking around, at least initially, with the next writer, Joe Ahearne, which should be a nice boost for him.

Northlanders #14

Brian Wood’s second major arc continues, and this is the second issue in a row that drives home that this book really should be read in trade-format. Most Vertigo titles are this way to some extent. Northlanders typically includes multiple pages that have no dialogue and are merely to establish the scene, generally towards the middle of the main arcs, and read in individual chunks it gives an impression that the reads want substance. That side, "The Cross and the Hammer" continues to be a reasonably good follow-up story, though I wouldn’t put it in the same class as "Sven the Returned". The main characters here are Magnus and his preteen daughter Brigid, who are rebels engaged in a guerrilla campaign against the Viking occupiers of Ireland in the time of Brian Boru. The primary battle between the two is actually taking place contemporary to these events, and we get a rather lengthy depiction of that fight here, which, on the face of it, seems a bit unnecessary. Magnus goes around attacking occupational authorities, and has drawn the attention of a squad of the king’s men, led by Ragnar, who basically acts like a Viking FBI profiler in his analysis of Magnus’ actions and his attempts to draw him out. To use a superhero analogy, Magnus is a lot like Wolverine; actually, aspects of this remind me of Millar’s current "Old Man Logan" arc; Magnus has a tendency to give himself over to unthinking psychotic rage, such as, upon thinking his daughter deceased, massacring an entire family (who, fortunately, as he daughter assures him, were connected with the Vikings, so it’s okay; actually, Brigid’s role as her father’s enabler in this issue is rather interesting; given how this chapter ends, with Magnus seemingly in the process of being hacked to pieces, whether the final parts will be about her more than him). The art is quite strong. It’s a good story, overall, but I think I’ll read the next arc of this in trade.
 
Now, I will admit I might enjoy it more with a second reading, all together in a sitting. Remember, when you read over 150 comics a month...and, a title like Final Crisis goes through delays, you have to try and remember all the little details that you've already read. (This is why I like how Marvel gives a recap page. Even though I rarely need to read it, there are times I need my memory refreshed.)
 
Now, I will admit I might enjoy it more with a second reading, all together in a sitting.
You will, and that's because good art continues to reveal itself to you years and years later.

Remember, when you read over 150 comics a month...and, a title like Final Crisis goes through delays, you have to try and remember all the little details that you've already read. (This is why I like how Marvel gives a recap page. Even though I rarely need to read it, there are times I need my memory refreshed.)
At current count, this month, I read 56 DC, 23 Marvel, 7 Dark Horse, 4 WildStorm, 2 Vertigo, 1 Image, and 1 Dynamite. That makes 95 comics. NINETY-FIVE BATS! AH-AH-AH-AH. And I didn't get confused with 95 comics.
 
Part IV: Other Stuff

Fantastic Four #563

Mark Millar and Bryan Hitch’s run on Fantastic Four hits issue #10, with the focus being primarily on Ben’s impending marriage to Debbie Green, the teacher he met in the first issue of the run. This is one of weaker aspects of the run; Millar’s introduced some interesting concepts and minor stuff (Nu-World, the Fantastic Force), and one fairly significant character change that works really, really well (Valeria being a genius, which gives the character a real role in the Fantastic Four’s world beyond being Richards Kid #2); Debbie, though, is potentially the biggest change to the status quo, but paradoxically one that we’ve seen the least of. Ben met her, we’re told they’ve dated for a while, mainly off-panel, and now he’’s proposing. Debbie’s generically nice, but there’s nothing particularly distinctive about her (indeed, her concept is partially that she’s got no connections to the superhuman world at all, though this issue hints at a more real-world problem); at most, she might add a "normal" perspective to the group, though that sort of thing wears off eventually the more you get immersed in the world. Anyway, though, this arc is finally giving her a bit of focus, and Millar mines the idea of a normal person marrying into the world’s most famous family for some nice commentary (it’s like marrying into the Royal Family, except with the added bonus of supervillains). We also get a more extended look at the Masters of Doom, two mysterious figures who tutored Doom in the ways of evil at that monastery he stayed at in his origin story; they’re still seen only from a distance, so there’s not much too them yet beyond being really, really powerful (similar to Ultimate Magneto, Millar’s writing something of a Pure Villain here, rather than someone with a more human motivation; they just like killing people). Hitch’s art continues to be strong, though they’re using multiple inkers to solve the inking delay problem, which can be noticeable in places; he’s apparently going to be sticking around, at least initially, with the next writer, Joe Ahearne, which should be a nice boost for him.

Northlanders #14

Brian Wood’s second major arc continues, and this is the second issue in a row that drives home that this book really should be read in trade-format. Most Vertigo titles are this way to some extent. Northlanders typically includes multiple pages that have no dialogue and are merely to establish the scene, generally towards the middle of the main arcs, and read in individual chunks it gives an impression that the reads want substance. That side, "The Cross and the Hammer" continues to be a reasonably good follow-up story, though I wouldn’t put it in the same class as "Sven the Returned". The main characters here are Magnus and his preteen daughter Brigid, who are rebels engaged in a guerrilla campaign against the Viking occupiers of Ireland in the time of Brian Boru. The primary battle between the two is actually taking place contemporary to these events, and we get a rather lengthy depiction of that fight here, which, on the face of it, seems a bit unnecessary. Magnus goes around attacking occupational authorities, and has drawn the attention of a squad of the king’s men, led by Ragnar, who basically acts like a Viking FBI profiler in his analysis of Magnus’ actions and his attempts to draw him out. To use a superhero analogy, Magnus is a lot like Wolverine; actually, aspects of this remind me of Millar’s current "Old Man Logan" arc; Magnus has a tendency to give himself over to unthinking psychotic rage, such as, upon thinking his daughter deceased, massacring an entire family (who, fortunately, as he daughter assures him, were connected with the Vikings, so it’s okay; actually, Brigid’s role as her father’s enabler in this issue is rather interesting; given how this chapter ends, with Magnus seemingly in the process of being hacked to pieces, whether the final parts will be about her more than him). The art is quite strong. It’s a good story, overall, but I think I’ll read the next arc of this in trade.
"with the next writer, Joe Ahearne" ? Are you saying he is the next FF writer after Millar's run is over? Can you provide a link to this ?
 
"with the next writer, Joe Ahearne" ? Are you saying he is the next FF writer after Millar's run is over? Can you provide a link to this ?
Hitch talked about it on Millarworld a while ago. There's been nothing official, but it makes sense, given that he's doing the Fantastic Force miniseries.
 
So, he's a new writer who's basically building a career off of aping Mark Millar?
 

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