Bought/Thoughtfest, June 22, 2011, Rocking the Spoilers All Week Long!

[runawayboulder]

I think in the past few years Pym has been portrayed as smarter that even Reed Richards.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Didn't Reed spank him pretty hard when they had their little b****-fest in Mighty Avengers? Plus, when Pym was crowned Scientist Supreme, I think Eternity specifically mentioned that it wasn't because he was necessarily smarter than other scientists, but because he was more committed to pure science, as opposed to Reed, who's as much an explorer as he is a scientist.

 

[runawayboulder]

I can't recall, I'd have too look it up. Pym's potential has always been held back by his insecurity. It seems to me like lately Reed has been portrayed as "overrated" since he's gathering up his enemies to help him beat other versions of himself. It could be the greatest plan in the history of the universe or the dumbest.....time will tell.

 

[chamber-music]

Pym is the flawed genius. If it wasn't for his psychological problems he could possibly be even a greater scientist.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm gonna go with the dumbest. He beats these guys as a matter of course--which his wife mentions in the comic. What could they possibly do to help him defeat a squad of himself?

 

[runawayboulder]

It's a dumb plan but, at least for myself as a non regular reader of FF, it's highly interesting.

 

[Texas]

well if you read IIM you would think Stark is smarter that Reed Richards, too

 

[El Bastardo]

well if you read IIM you would think Stark is smarter that Reed Richards, too

I read IIM, and I don't get that vibe.

Oh wait. Fraction writes IIM, and "Fraction sucks" is the popular tag-line, and it's all to hate every word that comes from hand to the page. Right! Sorry. I got it now. On the same page, so to speak. You, me, like glue. Connected at the seams. All that.

 

[runawayboulder]

Stark is more of an idea man. Then he hires people to do the actual work.

 

[JewishHobbit]

So it's sounding like I did good to skip Secret Avengers this week. Beast and Ant-Man are the only ones that really catch my eye on that book (being that I buy Moon Knight's solo now) so a book fully about Valkyrie didn't interest me in the slightest.

Oh, and I just realized this week that Valkryie and Thor Girl are not the same person. Who knew?!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I did. I knew that.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Yes, but you're Thor-****e.

Speaking of which, how many issues of this Galactus arc in Mighty Thor has come out and how many issues will it be? Is it stand alone?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

3 issues so far, not sure how many to go. Solicitation for #5 still has that story ongoing, so I'd guess at least the standard 6-issue arc. Fraction does sometimes like to do even longer arcs, though; some of his Invincible Iron Man arcs were 8 or 12 issues.

 

[moraldeficiency]

The way that stark is smarter than say reed or pym is that he actually realizes that to keep inventing and doing stuff he should turn a profit from the stuff he does. He thinks not just in one way as a pure scientist but also as a business man and strategist. Sure it doesn't always work out but he's thinking a bit more ahead than reed or pym going "well I wonder what will happen if I do this?" which inevitably results in evil dimensions leaking over or killer robots.

I'm not saying any is smarter than the other just that it's a very different mindset. Tony is much more concerned (oddly enough for a weapons manufacturer) with placing safeguards over what he does rather than just jumping in with both feet.

 

[Dread]

I can't recall, I'd have too look it up. Pym's potential has always been held back by his insecurity. It seems to me like lately Reed has been portrayed as "overrated" since he's gathering up his enemies to help him beat other versions of himself. It could be the greatest plan in the history of the universe or the dumbest.....time will tell.

Given that future solicitations seem to imply that an "Evil Future Foundation" arises by August/September, I'd say it is more the latter.

Reed Richards knows no end of genius level people who are not his nearest and dearest enemies who have personally tried, or succeeded, in tormenting and/or killing his friends and family. Spider-Man, now a part of the team, is one. Professor X, Dr. Strange, and Tony Stark are three more, and Reed seems to see them once a year when Bendis has the Illuminati reunite for some nonsense (usually bickering and them a crisis). To go on, we have T'Challa (who once filled in for Reed as recently as after CW), Hank Pym, and Amadeus Cho. All of them offer smarts as well as directions different from Reed, especially Cho. None of them would risk endangering a building full of children. But instead, Reed has invited and organized all of his enemies together and is helping them concentrate on killing counterparts who are smarter than he is. That's like Superman allowing Lex Luthor, Brainiac, and Mongol into the Fortress Of Solitude and sharing every arcane secret and weakness with them to beat General Zod (instead of the JLA or his own "Super-Family"). I love how Sue goes, "Yeah, but we beat them all." With all due respect, Wizard was STILL kidnapping your well toned behind as a hostage as recently as 2007. She made him pay dearly for it later, but the point still stands.

I digress. I actually am happy with Hank Pym where he is, because the longer he is away from the rest of the Avengers, the longer Christos Gage, or Dan Slott, or someone who isn't Brian M. Bendis gets to write him. Bendis, and Mark Millar, are personally responsible for the new modern perception that all Pym does is be borderline insane and beat his wife. It took Slott and Gage years to pull Pym from the mire that those two dragged the character into.

As a somewhat attached addendum, Hank Pym is portrayed very well in "AVENGERS: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEROES". The show, story edited by Chris Yost (who wrote all the big episodes), has no trouble distinguishing how Stark and Pym differ while having both be experts in a field. In fact, I'd argue that in that show, Pym is very close to an MVP. He saves the day at least as often as Iron Man or any other character does, if not slightly more so. If he doesn't save the day, he provides the key exposition or data that someone else uses to save the day. This is a positive sign since Marvel liked to have some synergy with alternate media, and are aware of what they transmit to kids.

A debate as to who is smarter - Reed, Stark, or Pym - could go on for ages. All of them have their brilliant moments and inventions, and all of them have their dark moments and tragedies - as well as many "WTF" moments. Pym hit his wife and had a nervous breakdown? Reed was saying borderline verbally abusive and sexist things to Sue as part of normal conversation ("Wives should be kissed and not heard!") well into the 70's, and invented a giant Rob Liefield sized gun for the SOLE PURPOSE of blasting his infant son into a coma. Stark's a-hole moments were endless even before CW. Yet for some reason Pym used to remain the one unable to escape from all that. Hell, Peter Parker went mad and slapped MJ once, in a bit that was actually homaged IN FILM, and hardly anyone seems to hold that against him.

Reed and Pym did go head to head in MIGHTY AVENGERS, in a very silly story by Dan Slott which had the two act like schoolyard morons. Pym managed to outwit Reed's security systems as well as split up his team pretty well, but I think it ended in a stalemate. In terms of genius stuff, while all see some overlap, Stark tends to focus more on engineering armor and machines. Reed is the overall genius who can cover just about anything, but usually delves into the space stuff or far out dimensional theories. Pym is smart enough to cover all of those areas (robotics, dimensional stuff, and biology) but doesn't do the exploring as much - that was why Eternity claimed he was the "Scientist Supreme", because he utilized science for it's own sake in a manner that brought it very close to outright magic.

Gage has used him very well in Academy, and I can say he's one of the only Avengers I have seen who seems to GENUINELY care about the lives of teenage heroes he seeks to mentor. Both Stark and Steve Rogers abandoned or acted as unaccepting authorities to most teenage heroes they met, only recruiting them as canon fodder for big battles and then ignoring them at every time of need - then criticizing them when they messed up. None of the Avengers gave two ****'s about the New Warriors, especially after they took in Rage, who lied his way into the Avengers briefly. Sure, they occasionally bumped into each other, but they were not supportive. After Stamford, "New Warrior" became a slur. Stark and Rogers wanted to get the Young Avengers to quit at every turn, or were fearful of their power - unless they needed spare bodies for a CIVIL WAR or a SIEGE, and then either were willing and able to employ them as canon fodder. That's hypocrisy of the highest order. While Reed Richards probably has more experience than many since he is a father, he is making the mistake of clearly playing favorites - he is so scared of his son Franklin's powers that he deliberately pairs him with Leech to keep him weak. At the same time, he allows his daughter Val free reign to do whatever she wants because her power is most like his; super-intelligence. Pym, at the very least, plays no favorites at Avengers Academy. Steve Rogers showed not an ounce of hesitation or regret when he ordered the YA into SIEGE to face Norman Osborn and half the Marvel Villains in the universe - the same man who used to angst about getting Bucky killed once upon a time seems to think nothing of throwing teenagers into the meat grinder ("All of history does it, I see no need to buck it," Rogers explained in so many words recently). Pym choked back a tear when he had to send the Academy kids into D.C. to fight Sin, which was not long after they barely survived fighting the Sinister Six. To top it all off, Pym cares that much about kids who some others would have written off as risks or no-hopers. He also has to do that while still mourning Janet's death and being haunted, in some way, by Jocasta who has Jan's mind patterns as programming.

At the moment, Pym wins out for me because he's not as smug as Stark or as condescending as Reed. He's also bigger than the other two when it comes to facing his own flaws and insecurities (lately). He also didn't need to have children to actually care about them (beyond saving an occasional "brat of the month" in a solo story). Plus, he didn't think Thor clones or Negative Zone gulags were ever a good idea.

It's easier to be a good guy when you have less to overcome. While Stark and Reed have both had their down and out moments (Stark especially), Pym has seemed to go through them more recently and still carry on. I would actually really, REALLY like it if Giant-Man were able to actually beat "Worthy Absorbing Man" in AVENGERS ACADEMY. Sadly, he won't, for the same reason Tigra can never beat Hood there - it isn't as "important" a book. But how the **** does a book get important if important things can't happen there?

 

[JewishHobbit]

3 issues so far, not sure how many to go. Solicitation for #5 still has that story ongoing, so I'd guess at least the standard 6-issue arc. Fraction does sometimes like to do even longer arcs, though; some of his Invincible Iron Man arcs were 8 or 12 issues.

Hmm, interesting. I don't really want to pick up anything new now that I have my buying under control but I miss the cosmic corner of Marvel and Annihilators didn't really do it for me. I do like Galactus though.

 

[Dread]

3 issues so far, not sure how many to go. Solicitation for #5 still has that story ongoing, so I'd guess at least the standard 6-issue arc. Fraction does sometimes like to do even longer arcs, though; some of his Invincible Iron Man arcs were 8 or 12 issues.

By "sometimes", you mean "two thirds of the time". That's been my experience at least. His shortest arc on IIM was six issues, and it was the first. FEAR ITSELF is shorter than the last two IIM arcs I read from him.

 

[JewishHobbit]

That's what worries me. I'd like to maybe pick up an arc but I don't want to get invested in an ongoing run just to get the story. I want 6 issues or less, not 8 or 9. Frankly, I don't even want 6 issues but if it's good it could be worth it. Too long is just too long. I'm tired of long arcs. Just give me good stories.

 

[Dread]

I gave him 5 issues on THOR before I lost interest, and his first arc there was about 7-8 issues. MIGHTY THOR is really his second arc on Thor. I hear it's better, but...I won't fall for it again. Sorry.

Fraction is a decompressed writer, about as much so as Bendis and often worse, to be honest.

 

[Texas]

I read IIM, and I don't get that vibe.

Oh wait. Fraction writes IIM, and "Fraction sucks" is the popular tag-line, and it's all to hate every word that comes from hand to the page. Right! Sorry. I got it now. On the same page, so to speak. You, me, like glue. Connected at the seams. All that.

Well, a bit defensive are we I refer you to issue # 4 when Stark and Reed are playing chess. Oh, btw I really am a fan of Fracion's IIM and Mighty Thor so check the attitude at the door, buddy !

 

[El Bastardo]

Well, a bit defensive are we I refer you to issue # 4 when Stark and Reed are playing chess. Oh, btw I really am a fan of Fracion's IIM and Mighty Thor so check the attitude at the door, buddy !

It wasn't defensive at all. Well, defensive of Fraction, maybe, but not me being defensive in the face of some flippant insult. Please stop.

 

[moraldeficiency]

I'll say one thing for fraction, even though I'm not checking out fear itself cause it's just too damn trendy for this mick, I'm betting that the end of fear itself will actually have the heroes doing something heroic and saving the day instead of some crap plot device just ending it before they all die from pure incompetence. Which will have this be the first time a Marvel event has ended that way in at least 15 years. Which will sadly probably make this the best event marvel's had in quite a while. World's better than any event bendis has ever come up with.

I believe the chess thing just had tony putting reed in check not actually beating him at chess, which is quite different. And chess isn't actually a sign of overall intelligence just a type of strategic intelligence that comes from understanding piece structure and the mechanics of the game. I mean bobby fisher isn't in stephen hawking's league in intelligence but he'd kick his crippled ass in chess.

 

[chamber-music]

I digress. I actually am happy with Hank Pym where he is, because the longer he is away from the rest of the Avengers, the longer Christos Gage, or Dan Slott, or someone who isn't Brian M. Bendis gets to write him. Bendis, and Mark Millar, are personally responsible for the new modern perception that all Pym does is be borderline insane and beat his wife. It took Slott and Gage years to pull Pym from the mire that those two dragged the character into.

As a somewhat attached addendum, Hank Pym is portrayed very well in "AVENGERS: EARTH'S MIGHTIEST HEROES". The show, story edited by Chris Yost (who wrote all the big episodes), has no trouble distinguishing how Stark and Pym differ while having both be experts in a field. In fact, I'd argue that in that show, Pym is very close to an MVP. He saves the day at least as often as Iron Man or any other character does, if not slightly more so. If he doesn't save the day, he provides the key exposition or data that someone else uses to save the day. This is a positive sign since Marvel liked to have some synergy with alternate media, and are aware of what they transmit to kids.

A debate as to who is smarter - Reed, Stark, or Pym - could go on for ages. All of them have their brilliant moments and inventions, and all of them have their dark moments and tragedies - as well as many "WTF" moments. Pym hit his wife and had a nervous breakdown? Reed was saying borderline verbally abusive and sexist things to Sue as part of normal conversation ("Wives should be kissed and not heard!") well into the 70's, and invented a giant Rob Liefield sized gun for the SOLE PURPOSE of blasting his infant son into a coma. Stark's a-hole moments were endless even before CW. Yet for some reason Pym used to remain the one unable to escape from all that. Hell, Peter Parker went mad and slapped MJ once, in a bit that was actually homaged IN FILM, and hardly anyone seems to hold that against him.

Reed and Pym did go head to head in MIGHTY AVENGERS, in a very silly story by Dan Slott which had the two act like schoolyard morons. Pym managed to outwit Reed's security systems as well as split up his team pretty well, but I think it ended in a stalemate. In terms of genius stuff, while all see some overlap, Stark tends to focus more on engineering armor and machines. Reed is the overall genius who can cover just about anything, but usually delves into the space stuff or far out dimensional theories. Pym is smart enough to cover all of those areas (robotics, dimensional stuff, and biology) but doesn't do the exploring as much - that was why Eternity claimed he was the "Scientist Supreme", because he utilized science for it's own sake in a manner that brought it very close to outright magic.



At the moment, Pym wins out for me because he's not as smug as Stark or as condescending as Reed. He's also bigger than the other two when it comes to facing his own flaws and insecurities (lately). He also didn't need to have children to actually care about them (beyond saving an occasional "brat of the month" in a solo story). Plus, he didn't think Thor clones or Negative Zone gulags were ever a good idea.

It's easier to be a good guy when you have less to overcome. While Stark and Reed have both had their down and out moments (Stark especially), Pym has seemed to go through them more recently and still carry on. I would actually really, REALLY like it if Giant-Man were able to actually beat "Worthy Absorbing Man" in AVENGERS ACADEMY. Sadly, he won't, for the same reason Tigra can never beat Hood there - it isn't as "important" a book. But how the **** does a book get important if important things can't happen there?

I think you make a alot of good points.

 

[CrimsonMist]

For Phaed and anyone else who seem underwhelmed or annoyed by Batman's titles, this is a pretty good one to try out. I might even try to catch up on Snyder's Detective run... but we'll see if I can afford it.

Detective Comics #874 and 875 are in my opinion the best two issues of Snyder's run so far. I highly suggest that you, at the very least, pick those up.

That said, Gates of Gotham #2 was really cool, though I think the twist at the end, upon reading the first issue again, was obvious. It was still a cool read, and I'll still be sticking with it. The interactions between Damian and Cass were great. I especially love how Damian dealt with the bomb and it's aftermath. So far, this has been pretty tightly written. I'm curious to know how much of it is Snyder and how much of it is Kyle Higgins, however. If it's an equal share, than I expect Higgins' run on Nightwing to be pretty kickass. And this Trevor McCarthy guy is really good. I'd like to see more of him in the future.

Brightest Day Aftermath: The Search for Swamp Thing #1: This was alright. I didn't really like the artwork. Sometimes, the anatomy of characters looked really off, almost like the artist didn't know how to draw it. Constantine was fun to read, though. But I hated how Dick Bats was written. He was written like a really violent Bruce, which was just stupid. But story-wise, it seems alright so far, though I may be confused by Constantine's proposal. Is he saying that Swamp Thing and Alec Holland have been separated and need to be reunited? If so, this sounds like a rehash of one of the last stories of the last Swamp Thing story, in which the Holland mind needs to be restored in the Swamp Thing. If anything, that's the only reason why I'm curious to see how this story plays out. I'm hoping this isn't something Snyder explores in his run, but we'll see.

Outside of the Mr. Monster story, I've not yet read anything else of Dark Horse Presents #2. But for 8 bucks, there's alot of value in this comic. The Concrete story last issue was good, and the Richard Corben story that continues in this issue LOOKS damn good. I tried to read the second part of the Neal Adams story, but once again, Mr. Adams proves he cannot write a story to save his life. Next issue is supposed to be 100 pages for 8 bucks so I'm definitely buying that one. For one thing, they're gonna be showcasing the long-long-long awaited remastered/recolored reprint of Steranko's RED TIDE graphic novel. Im curious to see how that looks as this has been an incredibly long time coming. I have a copy of the original book and it looks cool, but considering Steranko has been overseeing the recoloring process to an anal retentive degree, this should be good.

And while it didn't come out this week, my comic shop finally got a copy of The Death of Zorro #2 in, so i bought that with issues 3 and 4. I'm a little disappointed. It feels really padded out with flashbacks of certain characters that I felt didn't really add anything to the narrative. The La Justicia sub-plot has taken forever to get anywhere, and is so underdeveloped. In fact, I suspect that this story could have been told in 3 issues, but whatever. I've seen it through this far. Let's see how it ends. But I got really excited because I saw the add for Zorro Rides Again, the new Zorro series that will continue and conclude Matt Wagner's run on Zorro that was cancelled and incomplete. Wagner will be writing it with the Esteve Pols on art duties. A little disappointed that Pols is doing the artwork instead of Francesco Francavilla, but I guess because Francavilla is at work on Detective Comics and Black Panther, he couldn't find time. Hopefully he'll atleast supply covers. This starts in July and I can't wait.

 

[Drz]

I think Snyder and Higgings did the story, but the dialogue is all Higgins. I could be wrong tho!