Comics Brand New Day Discussion Thread

[moraldeficiency]

This is silly, Pete's relationships have run the standard gambit of most people's lives. Remember he started off as a highschooler progressed to approximately a 30 year old in terms or life lessons and relationships, and now he's around 20 again.

Liz was pete's high school crush.

Betty was his first "love" interest, though I believe it was more an infatuation do to Pete's lack of experience in relationships. You're too young to really understand your feelings but they still over power your judgement and make you think you cannot live without this person.

Gwen was his first real love and you never forget that no matter what, so you've always got a part of Pete that loves her. Most people have something similiar with their feelings for the first guy/girl/plant they ever truly loved. It doesn't invalidate who your currently with or how you feel about them, it's just that when you really feel this the first time it's a feeling that always sticks with you, and that person is the representation of that feeling in your mind.

Felicia represents that point in life where it's all up in the air, generally your early 20s where you're really trying to find your adult self. You generally date people that while flawed, you view through rose colored glasses. The bad girl/boy type that you've always had an underlying attraction to. You find other people trying to find their way and with that as a common denominator you try and help each other.

MJ falls into the category of soulmate. There's always been that twinge of destiny between them. The reluctance to meet, their polar opposite lifestyles and personalities, the constant breaking up getting back together. The fact that up till recently they always came back stronger than before because of their experiences. In my life at least this these are the feelings and actions of people meant for each other. Not some carbon copy of yourself but someone that compliments you and adds to you as a person while you do the same for them.

Most people have had these relationships in one form or another, it's an important part of growing up and understanding who you are and what you really want. But apparently what pete really wanted was to stay a momma's boy forever and force his aunt to live against her will.



PS. The original plan was to bring gwen back. Joe has said as much, but that he was resoundedly voted down so they settled on harry and renamed gwen as Carlie Cooper.

 

[Blader5489]

House of M/Son of M has already proven that Gwen is Peter's true love.

The end.

 

[nobndfan]

This is silly, Pete's relationships have run the standard gambit of most people's lives. Remember he started off as a highschooler progressed to approximately a 30 year old in terms or life lessons and relationships, and now he's around 20 again.

Liz was pete's high school crush.

Betty was his first "love" interest, though I believe it was more an infatuation do to Pete's lack of experience in relationships. You're too young to really understand your feelings but they still over power your judgement and make you think you cannot live without this person.

Gwen was his first real love and you never forget that no matter what, so you've always got a part of Pete that loves her. Most people have something similiar with their feelings for the first guy/girl/plant they ever truly loved. It doesn't invalidate who your currently with or how you feel about them, it's just that when you really feel this the first time it's a feeling that always sticks with you, and that person is the representation of that feeling in your mind.

Felicia represents that point in life where it's all up in the air, generally your early 20s where you're really trying to find your adult self. You generally date people that while flawed, you view through rose colored glasses. The bad girl/boy type that you've always had an underlying attraction to. You find other people trying to find their way and with that as a common denominator you try and help each other.

MJ falls into the category of soulmate. There's always been that twinge of destiny between them. The reluctance to meet, their polar opposite lifestyles and personalities, the constant breaking up getting back together. The fact that up till recently they always came back stronger than before because of their experiences. In my life at least this these are the feelings and actions of people meant for each other. Not some carbon copy of yourself but someone that compliments you and adds to you as a person while you do the same for them.

Most people have had these relationships in one form or another, it's an important part of growing up and understanding who you are and what you really want. But apparently what pete really wanted was to stay a momma's boy forever and force his aunt to live against her will.



PS. The original plan was to bring gwen back. Joe has said as much, but that he was resoundedly voted down so they settled on harry and renamed gwen as Carlie Cooper.

What a well-thought out post. Rings true.

 

[nobndfan]

Yes, marriage is the hot topic in another thread as well, that I have addressed already.

Is Joe Christian?

Dunno...

My point (er, I think!) was that married is not just a transitory state until something better comes along, or until you find another wife to add to the one you've already got, or until the devil decides you're no longer married (marriage as we practice it in our society is a Biblical concept, which is prevalent in our Western civilization of which Pete is a part). It is more than a friendship, is deeper than a dating relationship...it is a lifetime commitment. And, my point in bringing up the scriptures in this, was that since that western civilization custom of ours is rooted in Judeo/Christian values, then from God's perspective, marriage is a forever thing (and since we have Mephisto/devil in this mix, hey, why not bring in the Godly perspective, too). Marriage is not casual, not to be taken lightly. Marriage is, in fact, supposed to be a picture of Israel and God or Christ and the Church (joined in "Holy Matrimony"...that's why he holds it in such high esteem). So regardless of what Mephisto may try to make things APPEAR to be....if Pete and MJ were really married...then, they're still married. Mephisto is not stronger or more powerful than God.

Whew. That hurt! t:

 

[iloveclones]

This is silly, Pete's relationships have run the standard gambit of most people's lives. Remember he started off as a highschooler progressed to approximately a 30 year old in terms or life lessons and relationships, and now he's around 20 again.

Liz was pete's high school crush.

Betty was his first "love" interest, though I believe it was more an infatuation do to Pete's lack of experience in relationships. You're too young to really understand your feelings but they still over power your judgement and make you think you cannot live without this person.

Gwen was his first real love and you never forget that no matter what, so you've always got a part of Pete that loves her. Most people have something similiar with their feelings for the first guy/girl/plant they ever truly loved. It doesn't invalidate who your currently with or how you feel about them, it's just that when you really feel this the first time it's a feeling that always sticks with you, and that person is the representation of that feeling in your mind.

Felicia represents that point in life where it's all up in the air, generally your early 20s where you're really trying to find your adult self. You generally date people that while flawed, you view through rose colored glasses. The bad girl/boy type that you've always had an underlying attraction to. You find other people trying to find their way and with that as a common denominator you try and help each other.

MJ falls into the category of soulmate. There's always been that twinge of destiny between them. The reluctance to meet, their polar opposite lifestyles and personalities, the constant breaking up getting back together. The fact that up till recently they always came back stronger than before because of their experiences. In my life at least this these are the feelings and actions of people meant for each other. Not some carbon copy of yourself but someone that compliments you and adds to you as a person while you do the same for them.

Most people have had these relationships in one form or another, it's an important part of growing up and understanding who you are and what you really want. But apparently what pete really wanted was to stay a momma's boy forever and force his aunt to live against her will.



PS. The original plan was to bring gwen back. Joe has said as much, but that he was resoundedly voted down so they settled on harry and renamed gwen as Carlie Cooper.

I love how all the phases of Pete's dating life you apply with the realism that we all, at or another, realize in life (if we're lucky, except for the Gwen thing). But when it comes to MJ, all of a sudden it's [cue music] sooooul maaaate [/cue music] As I've said many, many times before, all marriages start out with soul mate status, and more than 50% end up in the trash bin. That number is even higher for cops, firefighters, etc. Which Pete is, on steroids. (Now that's realism.)

Be honest. MJ was made his soul mate. By the same evil Marvel that is now taking that status away.

 

[carnageehw]

You need a higher post count, I think 300, before you can add an avatar.

Ah, thanks. That kinda sucks.

 

[carnageehw]

As I've said many, many times before, all marriages start out with soul mate status, and more than 50% end up in the trash bin.

Well then, couldn't it be said they never REALLY were soulmates to being with? Ahhhhh. Deep

Also: My dads a firefighter, married to mom for 28 years

 

[iloveclones]

Well then, couldn't it be said they never REALLY were soulmates to being with? Ahhhhh. Deep

Also: My dads a firefighter, married to mom for 28 years

Soul Mate is one of the idiotic Oprah words that have crept into our culture.

Congrats to your parents. They beat the odds.

 

[nobndfan]

I love how all the phases of Pete's dating life you apply with the realism that we all, at or another, realize in life (if we're lucky, except for the Gwen thing). But when it comes to MJ, all of a sudden it's [cue music] sooooul maaaate [/cue music] As I've said many, many times before, all marriages start out with soul mate status, and more than 50% end up in the trash bin. That number is even higher for cops, firefighters, etc. Which Pete is, on steroids. (Now that's realism.)

Be honest. MJ was made his soul mate. By the same evil Marvel that is now taking that status away.

So what? She made a very good soul mate. It was refreshing. And, if Marvel wasn't going to make Pete a soul mate, just who was?

 

[moraldeficiency]

I love how all the phases of Pete's dating life you apply with the realism that we all, at or another, realize in life (if we're lucky, except for the Gwen thing). But when it comes to MJ, all of a sudden it's [cue music] sooooul maaaate [/cue music] As I've said many, many times before, all marriages start out with soul mate status, and more than 50% end up in the trash bin. That number is even higher for cops, firefighters, etc. Which Pete is, on steroids. (Now that's realism.)

Be honest. MJ was made his soul mate. By the same evil Marvel that is now taking that status away.

Oh, no you mean people marry impulsively and then get divorced? Heavens this is something. Realism is such a blanket word for people that just give up on life. You disagree with the soul mate thing but state real world statistics as the reasoning? Look Pete is a hero, an ideal person based on the best in us, so yeah I do think someone like pete could pull off the relationship without giving up hope like most of us do.

Few marriages start out as "soul mates", you know this. I don't really have to argue the point because I know when you think on that statement you'll realize most marriages start out because of money/physical attraction/common interests/fear/need of consistency the ones actually based on love and understanding of that would probably fall into the >1%.

I know it's the term soul mate that you hate and I've heard why you think it cannot exist, and that's great for you, but we are two very different people. So while you don't mind pete making deals with the devil but cannot stand the idea that Pete and MJ might be meant for each other, I'm on the other camp of soulmates good, deals with Satan bad. We shall just have to disagree sir, but I don't see how the fact that ordinary people get divorced half the time relates to how a genius superhero who's genuinely empathetic with others would conduct his life. There's very little normal about pete except that he personifies the best in us even in our flawed choices, if anyone could get the soul mate thing right it should be him.

I thought about your last line quite a bit there, I was curious if it stood once I gave it the once over. It does, and here's why:

Almost from the start of Spider-Man there's been MJ hanging as the abstract term of the niece of his aunt's friend he didn't really want to meet. Unlike all his other girls there's nothing similiar with MJ and Pete. Nothing in their lifestyles, jobs, choices or anything else that ties them together. But when they're together the back and forth they make sense and they shouldn't. I mean when you look at couples they're the most oddball out there: A supermodel and a nerd that's secretly a superhero? It's not an opposites attract thing its actually a complementary thing. Rather than butting heads and hating each other they, in some odd twist of fate, make each other complete(I know how corny that is).

If you're lucky enough to find someone completely opposite from who you are but instead of hating them you find something deep inside their personality that completely clicks with yours, you end up running the gambit of emotions from hate to love constantly. They've had ups and downs but there's always been that emotional core that polorized the two. MJ see's beyond peter parker and spider-man and doesn't see a nerd or a superhero, she sees the man she loves, and pete doesn't just see a supermodel, he sees how strong and caring and how fragile she is all at once. But I guess you don't agree, and that's cool.

Most people didn't like reign and I understand why but I personally loved it. I rarely get choked up by anything but in both issues 3 and four I did because of the way they depicted the relationship. It felt real in a way only people accostumed to loss could relate to. I read a story like that or the last Sen. Annual with MJ talking to that Shield *****e and I just cannot fathom why anyone would think anything negative of the marriage or that it limits matters. In some people's opinions, mine definately, the relationship was Pete's greatest source of strength. When I think of it I'm reminded of a line from punch drunk love which I think went something like, "I'm in love with a woman and you have no idea how strong that makes me" after sandler kicks the crap out of some guys and is threatening whatshisname. Pete's humanity has always been his strength and what really made him a hero and his relationship with MJ, I've always seen, as the most human aspect of the man.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Soul Mate is one of the idiotic Oprah words that have crept into our culture.

Congrats to your parents. They beat the odds.

Isn't that the point though, to beat the odds? If it was easy to find someone that you really felt that way about, then it wouldn't be worth @hit. If you want, really want someone, the I can't live without them, kind of want then you suffer for it. You work, and struggle and cry and hurt some more, but if you even get ten minutes of it then anything you went through is well worth the effort.

Nothing good comes free, in fact the better it is, the more it costs, and the harder it is to find. But in a way that's a good thing, it makes you appreciate what you have, and maybe some like his parents can be an example of what good there is and can come from a relationship. Something to look up to and aspire to be. They say that about heroes too, don't they?

 

[carnageehw]

Soul Mate is one of the idiotic Oprah words that have crept into our culture.

I don't like the word either. Ever have your girlfriend ask you if you're soulmates? It's a fine like to walk convincing her you just don't like the term, and making her think you don't like her

 

[iloveclones]

Which is why I congratulated them.

Look, md, I wish you luck in your upcoming nuptials. I really do. I sincerely hope that you don't run into all the bumps and potholes that erode childhood fantasies of true love and soulmates and the like. I hope that 10 years from now, you're here telling me that you now consider you and your wife soulmates because off all you've overcome and experienced together. But how about giving the rest of us the benefit of the doubt that we know that life at 40 looks different than life at 20 or 30.

But don't condescend me. I know all about life, love, and all the joy and crap that life can bestow and dump on you. Given up? Please. Most of you pups haven't even started the race yet. How about you lecture me once you've actually done a lap or two?

 

[iloveclones]

I don't like the word either. Ever have your girlfriend ask you if you're soulmates? It's a fine like to walk convincing her you just don't like the term, and making her think you don't like her

You want fine lines? My girl-friend, rational scientist that she is, thinks our dog is magical. Woe to he who disagrees. I'd willingly tell her that we're not soulmates (we are , of course, honey )to avoid the magical-dog discussion...

 

[Blader5489]

I repeat:

House of M/Son of M has already proven that Gwen is Peter's true love.

The end.

 

[Electro UK]

House of M/Son of M has already proven that Gwen is Peter's true love.

The end.

That, and when Spider-man died in like issue 18 of one of the old ongoings, he actually said something along the lines of "Funny, I always thought MJ was the one I loved but now I see that it was and always will be Gwen."

 

[Venom 1988]

I repeat:

Probably one of the few things I'll agree with you about

 

[MyPokerShirt]

See post below...

Damnit im officially in smiley hell. *sighs*
oh well, ifya can't beat'em t: Wow, that took some effort.

 

[spider greg]

Which is why I congratulated them.

Look, md, I wish you luck in your upcoming nuptials. I really do. I sincerely hope that you don't run into all the bumps and potholes that erode childhood fantasies of true love and soulmates and the like. I hope that 10 years from now, you're here telling me that you now consider you and your wife soulmates because off all you've overcome and experienced together. But how about giving the rest of us the benefit of the doubt that we know that life at 40 looks different than life at 20 or 30.

But don't condescend me. I know all about life, love, and all the joy and crap that life can bestow and dump on you. Given up? Please. Most of you pups haven't even started the race yet. How about you lecture me once you've actually done a lap or two?

Yea, well said. I'm glad I never ended up marrying any of my "soulmates" when I was younger, I would've blew my grill off by now.

 

[mre]

Who cares?

nobndfan brought up what marriage means in the bible and compared that to Mephisto.

If Joe was not religious then obviously he would not care what marriage is in the bible.

 

[Captivated]

This is silly, Pete's relationships have run the standard gambit of most people's lives. Remember he started off as a highschooler progressed to approximately a 30 year old in terms or life lessons and relationships, and now he's around 20 again.

Liz was pete's high school crush.

Betty was his first "love" interest, though I believe it was more an infatuation do to Pete's lack of experience in relationships. You're too young to really understand your feelings but they still over power your judgement and make you think you cannot live without this person.

Gwen was his first real love and you never forget that no matter what, so you've always got a part of Pete that loves her. Most people have something similiar with their feelings for the first guy/girl/plant they ever truly loved. It doesn't invalidate who your currently with or how you feel about them, it's just that when you really feel this the first time it's a feeling that always sticks with you, and that person is the representation of that feeling in your mind.

Felicia represents that point in life where it's all up in the air, generally your early 20s where you're really trying to find your adult self. You generally date people that while flawed, you view through rose colored glasses. The bad girl/boy type that you've always had an underlying attraction to. You find other people trying to find their way and with that as a common denominator you try and help each other.

MJ falls into the category of soulmate. There's always been that twinge of destiny between them. The reluctance to meet, their polar opposite lifestyles and personalities, the constant breaking up getting back together. The fact that up till recently they always came back stronger than before because of their experiences. In my life at least this these are the feelings and actions of people meant for each other. Not some carbon copy of yourself but someone that compliments you and adds to you as a person while you do the same for them.

Most people have had these relationships in one form or another, it's an important part of growing up and understanding who you are and what you really want. But apparently what pete really wanted was to stay a momma's boy forever and force his aunt to live against her will.

You got it.

Just another reminder why this is all SO SAD.

 

[Captivated]

Dunno...

My point (er, I think!) was that married is not just a transitory state until something better comes along, or until you find another wife to add to the one you've already got, or until the devil decides you're no longer married (marriage as we practice it in our society is a Biblical concept, which is prevalent in our Western civilization of which Pete is a part). It is more than a friendship, is deeper than a dating relationship...it is a lifetime commitment.

And, my point in bringing up the scriptures in this, was that since that western civilization custom of ours is rooted in Judeo/Christian values, then from God's perspective, marriage is a forever thing (and since we have Mephisto/devil in this mix, hey, why not bring in the Godly perspective, too).

Great point.

Which will likely sail over heads... or be rejected, because we are not talking FAIR here.

Marriage is not casual, not to be taken lightly. Marriage is, in fact, supposed to be a picture of Israel and God or Christ and the Church (joined in "Holy Matrimony"...that's why he holds it in such high esteem).

So regardless of what Mephisto may try to make things APPEAR to be....if Pete and MJ were really married...then, they're still married. Mephisto is not stronger or more powerful than God.

Of course that's true.

But unfortunately I think we're talking "pearls before swine" here....

Keep trying though. I applaud you efforts.

 

[farmernudie]

I think someones else hit upon a real good point here....Pete's ULTIMATE selfishness regarding his elderly aunt.

He forced his will upon Aunt May, against what she would want. Stretched out her life longer, make her raise him longer, support him, cook for him etc. She has no right to die, no right to move on. Pete has shackled her and imprisioned her really, in a loop of sertvatude to HIM.

(Well the writers did that...but)...Pete besides making a deal with the devil, which is bad enough, in a major scale, well...he also took away all the natural progression of life that his Aunt May could possibly have. What a retirement she's having..stuck raising him for all eternity, not allowed to move on like Uncle Ben, can't JOIN her beloved Uncle Ben, as long as Pete can get the devil to keep her heart ticking. What a hero Pete is!!!?

Not getting into what he stole from his wife and the mindwiped world, because that's been said a lot already.

 

[Blader5489]

I think someones else hit upon a real good point here....Pete's ULTIMATE selfishness regarding his elderly aunt.

I'm pretty sure you're the one who has been "hitting up" that point over and over again.

 

[carnageehw]

Anyone read CABLE/DEADPOOL?

In issue 50 (the last ) he and spiey meet, and the following encounter takes place:

Spidey: Great, you got sidekicks now?
DP: I call them a loyal supporting cast, Mr. Holier-than-thou-fugitive-from-the-law, Spiderman. AND I didn't have to make a deal with Mephisto to have it either.
Spidey: ?
DP: Never mind.

I lurvs that book.