The Dark Knight Bruce Wayne's Journey in "TDK"?

[Wedge A.]

Wow, give it up for Singularity's first post.

 

[TheDarkVictory]

Bruce: Oh which batsuit should i wear, i really like this one but i cant really move my head in it, but its awful perty, this one has these cool shooting blades on it. ALFRED!..HEY ALFRED COME HERE PLEASE!....does this suit make me look fat??

Alfred: Nevah.

Bruce: Oh good, i really want to make a good first impression. Thanks Alfred! your the best!

NEXT SCENE

Joker: has anyone ever told you that suit makes you look fat?

Batman:

it's this type of psychological intrigue that makes nolan such a wonderful filmmaker. batman will never get over joker dissing him like that.

 

[TheDarkVictory]

I think you guys are right on with the escalation of The Batman.

Within the story arc, I think the theme that Rachael identifies ("your mask") at the end of Begins represents the lever in this movie. The more "Batman" you get, the more "Bruce" is squeezed out. Bruce will always be the scared boy in the alley way - innocence in the act of being destroyed. Batman is a response to that, but the cure comes at the cost of the Bruce that Rachael knew, the real person.

By the end of The Dark Knight, Batman is going to have escalated in proportion to the Joker and the level of chaos in Gotham. That means Bruce Wayne (innocence, love?) is going to be almost totally replaced by The Bat (vengeance, sublimated fear?). What does that do to a person? It has to be a bleak state of being. Like an animal caught in fight-or-flight. All stress.

Because this is a sequel, and because the story arc needs to supply a place for movement to the last part of the trilogy, expect The Dark Knight to end on an extremely low-note. Like The Empire Strikes Back. Like Matrix Reloaded. This movie is about the near-destruction of Bruce Wayne, and how Batman is at once the catalyst for that and the only place for redemption as well. By the end, Bruce will have to lose everything he has and survive only through Batman.

Predictions to fulfill that prophecy:

- Rachael will die, or will be lost at the credits. She's the only thing (besides Alfred) that ties Bruce to the time before the tragedy that defines his life. Without her as a psychological anchor, he's in real trouble. Expect that line to be severed (perhaps permanently?).

- Gordon will be crippled, and tested in his own way. Gordon is Bruce Wayne's ally in the fight. He's either going to be rendered ineffective (as a cop, he's a soldier in the war), or he's going to be emotionally crippled (his family was just introduced in the cast... huge point of leverage there). Jim Gordon will be no help to Bruce by the end of the film.

- Harvey Dent will betray Bruce. Dent represents a strong pole in the tent of justice in Gotham. Though he and Bruce don't always see eye-to-eye, their partners in the same fight. By the end of The Dark Knight, they will have been tested together. But - of course Harvey is going to be turned into Two-Face, and his own dark side is going to surface in destructive ways. Friend becomes enemy.

- Alfred is getting sick. A set report depicts him with a cane. Classic symbol for developing frailty. Alfred is going to survive The Dark Knight, but his weakness means that, like an aging father, he can no longer provide the answers to his wayward son. Bruce isn't going to be able to rely on Alfred like he did in Begins. It's Bruce's fight this time. Alfred is going to be symbolic of the evolution of Bruce's internal struggle with his father's death. Ironically, as Bruce's decline advances in this movie, he's going to better overcome his original struggle - guilt and anger. His emotions are going to center on desperation and obsession. Alfred is no longer strong enough to contain that power. Bruce is alone.

- Gotham. The city Bruce is trying to save is turning on him like the criminals it detests. Of course, some blame Batman for the escalation in crime. Some blame him for vigilanteism run amok. Some blame him for the destruction he wreaks in his personal war. His only allies, Dent and Gordon, will be rendered ineffective, and Batman will stand alone. His line to Ras Al Ghul, "Between you and the people of Gotham," is rendered moot because it no longer exists. That was his only lightpost at one point. Gotham is symbolic of his parents turning on his crusade in his own mind ('the apple has fallen very far from the tree').

As each of these pressures mount on Bruce Wayne, forcing him further and further into a state of desperation, The Bat takes over. And that's dangerous for him. It's so dangerous that we can't even be sure it's a good thing. I think that battle is partly synonymous with the modern climate, and perhaps the United States. Certainly the American audience is going to respond to the idea of standing alone, being unsure of whether the power they wield is too much or too uncontrollable, and whether that power will destroy them. There's a little bit of The One Ring in the Batsuit.

The real question, I wonder, is - what will be the glimmer of hope at the end of The Dark Knight?

..........Mr. Nolan?

 

[The Guard]

No. That's Singularity, with common sense behind him.

 

[Damiean Dark]

THEDARKVICTORY makes some good points but qoutes like the US audiance relating to standing alone and such are hogwash imo people are going to see the movie to seee batman kicking ass and taking names and the confrontation with the joker.

 

[TheDarkVictory]

No. That's Singularity, with common sense behind him.

this common sense intrigues me...

 

[TheDarkVictory]

alas, i lost interest in it.

 

[ab38416]

^ lol

 

[bunk]

I have a feeling Bruce won't be journeying a whole lot in TDK. I hope I'm wrong, I just have a feeling.

 

[Minus Shock]

I pray that there's no glimmer of hope for The Dark Knight. I really want a trilogy to pull an Empire, and no im not saying make Joker Bruce's real dad haha, but miserable. First I think Singularity's post was brilliant, also no mention of Joker whatsoever. Which I think is interesting as the primary marketing tool for TDK has been Joker, wise, but like no one outside of my friends (because I told them) even knows that Aaron Eckhart is in this movie, let alone as Harvey Dent, one half of two face. So I do find this intriguing all the way around.

I think that somewhere through the coarse of TDK Harvey does have his face soaked in acid, but not at the cause of Joker, I think keep it Marroni as the origin has it, but there could be some cool conflicts here. Obviously Rachel Dawes is a feisty one that wants to bring down the crime bosses, so she could be one part of Dent's office that encourages him to take such a leap, and then the result is Harvey's mutilation, could cause Two-Face to resent Ms. Dawes. Let's also say Joker does off her (which is completely plausible) that could create a great conflict between Dent and Two-Face.

It was said, and I agree, Alfred should not be near dying, or sick, because it would be Batman and Robin, minus Robin, the Bride, the Terminator and the girl from Clueless, all over again. Still doubtful that its related to Alfred, besides watch the trailer, he seems to hold his own just fine from the shot that we see.

Batman vowed not to kill, and he shouldn't, and Joker should not die by some sort of accident, he should be sent to Arkham by the end of the movie and maybe even escape.

Then it should be implied somehow that the justice will be brought in pairs by Harvey Dent and Two-Face. Perhaps the last shot of the movie would be a proposition made, then the flip of the coin, and either Harvey Dent and Two-Face make a remark about the result or vaguely reveal the result then credits role... something like that, again keeping the movie on a low note, similar to Empire, maybe dare I say more so.

 

[naPAULeon]

I think you guys are right on with the escalation of The Batman.

Within the story arc, I think the theme that Rachael identifies ("your mask") at the end of Begins represents the lever in this movie. The more "Batman" you get, the more "Bruce" is squeezed out. Bruce will always be the scared boy in the alley way - innocence in the act of being destroyed. Batman is a response to that, but the cure comes at the cost of the Bruce that Rachael knew, the real person.

By the end of The Dark Knight, Batman is going to have escalated in proportion to the Joker and the level of chaos in Gotham. That means Bruce Wayne (innocence, love?) is going to be almost totally replaced by The Bat (vengeance, sublimated fear?). What does that do to a person? It has to be a bleak state of being. Like an animal caught in fight-or-flight. All stress.

Because this is a sequel, and because the story arc needs to supply a place for movement to the last part of the trilogy, expect The Dark Knight to end on an extremely low-note. Like The Empire Strikes Back. Like Matrix Reloaded. This movie is about the near-destruction of Bruce Wayne, and how Batman is at once the catalyst for that and the only place for redemption as well. By the end, Bruce will have to lose everything he has and survive only through Batman.

Predictions to fulfill that prophecy:

- Rachael will die, or will be lost at the credits. She's the only thing (besides Alfred) that ties Bruce to the time before the tragedy that defines his life. Without her as a psychological anchor, he's in real trouble. Expect that line to be severed (perhaps permanently?).

- Gordon will be crippled, and tested in his own way. Gordon is Bruce Wayne's ally in the fight. He's either going to be rendered ineffective (as a cop, he's a soldier in the war), or he's going to be emotionally crippled (his family was just introduced in the cast... huge point of leverage there). Jim Gordon will be no help to Bruce by the end of the film.

- Harvey Dent will betray Bruce. Dent represents a strong pole in the tent of justice in Gotham. Though he and Bruce don't always see eye-to-eye, their partners in the same fight. By the end of The Dark Knight, they will have been tested together. But - of course Harvey is going to be turned into Two-Face, and his own dark side is going to surface in destructive ways. Friend becomes enemy.

- Alfred is getting sick. A set report depicts him with a cane. Classic symbol for developing frailty. Alfred is going to survive The Dark Knight, but his weakness means that, like an aging father, he can no longer provide the answers to his wayward son. Bruce isn't going to be able to rely on Alfred like he did in Begins. It's Bruce's fight this time. Alfred is going to be symbolic of the evolution of Bruce's internal struggle with his father's death. Ironically, as Bruce's decline advances in this movie, he's going to better overcome his original struggle - guilt and anger. His emotions are going to center on desperation and obsession. Alfred is no longer strong enough to contain that power. Bruce is alone.

- Gotham. The city Bruce is trying to save is turning on him like the criminals it detests. Of course, some blame Batman for the escalation in crime. Some blame him for vigilanteism run amok. Some blame him for the destruction he wreaks in his personal war. His only allies, Dent and Gordon, will be rendered ineffective, and Batman will stand alone. His line to Ras Al Ghul, "Between you and the people of Gotham," is rendered moot because it no longer exists. That was his only lightpost at one point. Gotham is symbolic of his parents turning on his crusade in his own mind ('the apple has fallen very far from the tree').

As each of these pressures mount on Bruce Wayne, forcing him further and further into a state of desperation, The Bat takes over. And that's dangerous for him. It's so dangerous that we can't even be sure it's a good thing. I think that battle is partly synonymous with the modern climate, and perhaps the United States. Certainly the American audience is going to respond to the idea of standing alone, being unsure of whether the power they wield is too much or too uncontrollable, and whether that power will destroy them. There's a little bit of The One Ring in the Batsuit.

The real question, I wonder, is - what will be the glimmer of hope at the end of The Dark Knight?

Single best Hype! post I've read. And I've read some good ones.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

So, we've basically covered him coming to terms with his parents' death and what his ultimate goal as Batman is. So what's next? What psychological journey will Bruce/Batman go on now that everything has escalated and Joker's in town?

Same thing that happens in every sequel to a superhero movie. Superhero contemplates life not being a superhero, retires temporarily, sees how much the city and people need him, returns as superhero at the end better than ever saving everyone with triumphant music playing in the background.

 

[Carnotaur3]

I think when Bruce looses almost everything he has, the choice to go out and fight Joker when nobody else can is going to to seem more heroic in that sense. It's going to be awesome!

 

[Paradoxium]

Singularity's post makes TDK sounds Born Again-esque (see Miller's Daredevil Born Again). Not that is a bad thing. If they go that route and save the resolution for the third film, it will make the trilogy feel more "complete". This was what the Daredevil movies should have done.

 

[The Sage]

I agree with Sing. TDK will be Batman's Empire Strikes Back.

 

[Juha]

Yeah I'm pretty sure that things will come crashing down in TDK. In the end, Batman is able to stop the Joker but it comes with a price. Not sure what that price is but the ending won't certainly be a happy one.

 

[DeathRaven]

I remember hearing about how Bruce will deal with getting over his parents death and seeing if he can win this war on crime.

I wish I could remember where that was from....

 

[DeathRaven]

I think you guys are right on with the escalation of The Batman.

Within the story arc, I think the theme that Rachael identifies ("your mask") at the end of Begins represents the lever in this movie. The more "Batman" you get, the more "Bruce" is squeezed out. Bruce will always be the scared boy in the alley way - innocence in the act of being destroyed. Batman is a response to that, but the cure comes at the cost of the Bruce that Rachael knew, the real person.

By the end of The Dark Knight, Batman is going to have escalated in proportion to the Joker and the level of chaos in Gotham. That means Bruce Wayne (innocence, love?) is going to be almost totally replaced by The Bat (vengeance, sublimated fear?). What does that do to a person? It has to be a bleak state of being. Like an animal caught in fight-or-flight. All stress.

Because this is a sequel, and because the story arc needs to supply a place for movement to the last part of the trilogy, expect The Dark Knight to end on an extremely low-note. Like The Empire Strikes Back. Like Matrix Reloaded. This movie is about the near-destruction of Bruce Wayne, and how Batman is at once the catalyst for that and the only place for redemption as well. By the end, Bruce will have to lose everything he has and survive only through Batman.

Predictions to fulfill that prophecy:

- Rachael will die, or will be lost at the credits. She's the only thing (besides Alfred) that ties Bruce to the time before the tragedy that defines his life. Without her as a psychological anchor, he's in real trouble. Expect that line to be severed (perhaps permanently?).

- Gordon will be crippled, and tested in his own way. Gordon is Bruce Wayne's ally in the fight. He's either going to be rendered ineffective (as a cop, he's a soldier in the war), or he's going to be emotionally crippled (his family was just introduced in the cast... huge point of leverage there). Jim Gordon will be no help to Bruce by the end of the film.

- Harvey Dent will betray Bruce. Dent represents a strong pole in the tent of justice in Gotham. Though he and Bruce don't always see eye-to-eye, their partners in the same fight. By the end of The Dark Knight, they will have been tested together. But - of course Harvey is going to be turned into Two-Face, and his own dark side is going to surface in destructive ways. Friend becomes enemy.

- Alfred is getting sick. A set report depicts him with a cane. Classic symbol for developing frailty. Alfred is going to survive The Dark Knight, but his weakness means that, like an aging father, he can no longer provide the answers to his wayward son. Bruce isn't going to be able to rely on Alfred like he did in Begins. It's Bruce's fight this time. Alfred is going to be symbolic of the evolution of Bruce's internal struggle with his father's death. Ironically, as Bruce's decline advances in this movie, he's going to better overcome his original struggle - guilt and anger. His emotions are going to center on desperation and obsession. Alfred is no longer strong enough to contain that power. Bruce is alone.

- Gotham. The city Bruce is trying to save is turning on him like the criminals it detests. Of course, some blame Batman for the escalation in crime. Some blame him for vigilanteism run amok. Some blame him for the destruction he wreaks in his personal war. His only allies, Dent and Gordon, will be rendered ineffective, and Batman will stand alone. His line to Ras Al Ghul, "Between you and the people of Gotham," is rendered moot because it no longer exists. That was his only lightpost at one point. Gotham is symbolic of his parents turning on his crusade in his own mind ('the apple has fallen very far from the tree').

As each of these pressures mount on Bruce Wayne, forcing him further and further into a state of desperation, The Bat takes over. And that's dangerous for him. It's so dangerous that we can't even be sure it's a good thing. I think that battle is partly synonymous with the modern climate, and perhaps the United States. Certainly the American audience is going to respond to the idea of standing alone, being unsure of whether the power they wield is too much or too uncontrollable, and whether that power will destroy them. There's a little bit of The One Ring in the Batsuit.

The real question, I wonder, is - what will be the glimmer of hope at the end of The Dark Knight?

Ignore my last post, this is more like it! Great post!

 

[FlawlessVictory]

- Alfred is getting sick. A set report depicts him with a cane. Classic symbol for developing frailty. Alfred is going to survive The Dark Knight, but his weakness means that, like an aging father, he can no longer provide the answers to his wayward son. Bruce isn't going to be able to rely on Alfred like he did in Begins. It's Bruce's fight this time. Alfred is going to be symbolic of the evolution of Bruce's internal struggle with his father's death. Ironically, as Bruce's decline advances in this movie, he's going to better overcome his original struggle - guilt and anger. His emotions are going to center on desperation and obsession. Alfred is no longer strong enough to contain that power. Bruce is alone.

I hope Alfred doesn't get McGregor's Syndrome.

 

[jimmy]

I deduce that Bruce will make a journey of epic proportions. Don't ask me where in the script, don't ask me how Nolan will show it, and don't call me crazy or insane. It will just happen.

 

[The Guard]

I imagine Alfred will be getting old. Not sick.

 

[Juha]

I hope Alfred doesn't get McGregor's Syndrome.

But maybe in that case Mr. Freeze could help him. I heard that The Governator has a cameo in TDK...

 

[Gianakin_]

I hope Alfred doesn't get McGregor's Syndrome.

Nah, they named the sickness after the producer, Peter McGregor-Scott.
In TDK, Alfred will have the Roven Syndrome.

 

[Frank Noir]

..........Mr. Nolan?

Ha! That's exactly what I thought.

 

[DA Dent]

I pray that there's no glimmer of hope for The Dark Knight. I really want a trilogy to pull an Empire, and no im not saying make Joker Bruce's real dad haha, but miserable. First I think Singularity's post was brilliant, also no mention of Joker whatsoever. Which I think is interesting as the primary marketing tool for TDK has been Joker, wise, but like no one outside of my friends (because I told them) even knows that Aaron Eckhart is in this movie, let alone as Harvey Dent, one half of two face. So I do find this intriguing all the way around.

I think that somewhere through the coarse of TDK Harvey does have his face soaked in acid, but not at the cause of Joker, I think keep it Marroni as the origin has it, but there could be some cool conflicts here. Obviously Rachel Dawes is a feisty one that wants to bring down the crime bosses, so she could be one part of Dent's office that encourages him to take such a leap, and then the result is Harvey's mutilation, could cause Two-Face to resent Ms. Dawes. Let's also say Joker does off her (which is completely plausible) that could create a great conflict between Dent and Two-Face.

It was said, and I agree, Alfred should not be near dying, or sick, because it would be Batman and Robin, minus Robin, the Bride, the Terminator and the girl from Clueless, all over again. Still doubtful that its related to Alfred, besides watch the trailer, he seems to hold his own just fine from the shot that we see.

Batman vowed not to kill, and he shouldn't, and Joker should not die by some sort of accident, he should be sent to Arkham by the end of the movie and maybe even escape.

Then it should be implied somehow that the justice will be brought in pairs by Harvey Dent and Two-Face. Perhaps the last shot of the movie would be a proposition made, then the flip of the coin, and either Harvey Dent and Two-Face make a remark about the result or vaguely reveal the result then credits role... something like that, again keeping the movie on a low note, similar to Empire, maybe dare I say more so.

Yours and Singularity's posts are what it's all about.