Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel the Vampire - Part 2

[hopefuldreamer]

I've always found her to be one of the most fascinatingly tragic characters of either show, tbh, partially because her tragic nature wasn't the focus of her character like it was for Wes, Cordelia, etc. But when you really think about her life, and even some of the stuff that's merely implied or mentioned in interviews, it's a damn sad life. And when Dru "re"-turned her, Darla's the only vampire in either series I can recall who actually showed (brief) signs of resistance and anger that she'd been turned again. Even without her soul, she didn't relish being a vampire again like the other vamps always did when they were "reborn."

And before that, she'd only had her soul for a few weeks before deciding she wanted to be good and do the right thing (it took Angel how many decades for this??). Just seemed to me that Darla had this huge potential capacity for good, but she was consistently dealt a bad hand, even from the very beginning, so that potential never got realized. It's like we never got to know the "real" Darla at all. I like to think that was the real her in "Inside Out," sent by the Powers, and not just the Powers taking her form, but we'll never know for sure.

Yeah, I really love that scene, and always chose to believe it was the real her.

Also love her little rooftop speech in Lullaby

Darla: No, I haven't been nourishing it. I haven't given this baby a thing. I'm dead. It's been nourishing me. These feelings that I'm having, they're not mine. They're coming from it.
Angel: You don't know that.
Darla: Of course I do. We both do. Angel, I don't have a soul. It does. And right now, that soul is inside of me, but soon, it won't be, and then...
Angel: Darla...
Darla: I won't be able to love it. I won't even be able to remember that I loved it.
[Starts to cry]
Darla: And I want to remember. I...

I feel like Darla was an afterthought for Joss. He hadn't fully thought out the history of Darla before writing the pilot. Buffy defeating her so quickly doesn't add up if you take into account just how evil and ruthless she was.

She didn't. Angel did. And the point was that she simply didn't expect him to, which was why she had her guard down. She would never for a moment have considered that the man she sired and romed the world with for centuries, would dust her for some high school chick.

She was wrong

 

[Lord]

Oh, I knew what you meant, I just couldn't believe anyone thought that... I mean, the show's effects were always low budget. Almost distractingly so.

I know, but the finale actually had some strong special effects.

 

[flickchick85]

i was bored and did some googling

Spoiler

Julie Benz initially auditioned for the role of Buffy Summers,[1][2] but that later went to Sarah Michelle Gellar, who had previously won the part of Cordelia Chase.[1] However, Benz was offered the small role of the vampire Darla in the pilot episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Her performance was so well-received that her character appeared in a few more episodes.[2] In an interview with TheTVAddict.com, Benz said of her casting: "I was supposed to die in the pilot, but about halfway through the pilot Joss Whedon was like, 'We’re giving you a name and we’re not going to kill you.' And he did that for a while until it finally came time to kill me, and kill me, and kill me and killed [sic] me."[3] She later went on to say:

For me, I was a new actor to Los Angeles, didn’t know the TV business very well so I was just excited to work and play a vampire. I had no clue what I was going to do or how I was going to be scary. Until that is, they put the vampire makeup on me and I went into the trailer and smiled, which I thought was creepy. Joss always said he was intrigued that someone who looked like me and talked like me was like the scariest vampire ever. That’s what he wanted, my sweet voice and demeanour until all of a sudden I’m just this vicious vampire."[3]

darla's bio on Wiki:

One thing not mentioned there that always struck a chord with me was in one of the behind-the-scenes interviews, Benz was talking about how Darla was orphaned as a kid and sold into prostitution at a very young age. So she wasn't just a "young prostitute," but a child prostitute. I remember when I first saw that interview, thinking, "damn, so... losing her parents and forced into prostitution from childhood; dying from syphilis as a young adult; soulless demon for almost 400 years until the 'eternal life partner' she'd chosen goes and gets a soul and dusts her for a high-schooler he's known for less than a year; brought back as a human for just long enough to feel unbearable remorse for all the atrocities she'd committed over those 400 years; finds out she's dying of syphilis AGAIN; rediscovers her humanity just in time to be robbed of it again against her will; set on fire by same former lover who dusted her the first time; unwanted magical pregnancy; rediscovers humanity again just long enough to sacrifice herself for unborn child. That's what I call being dealt bad hand after bad hand," lol.

Yeah, I really love that scene, and always chose to believe it was the real her.

Also love her little rooftop speech in Lullaby

Yeah, that's a great scene in Lullaby. Never fails to get me a little choked up.

 

[Iron Man]

Okay, so it's been a long time since I started watching through Buffy and Angel, and a long time since I was around on these boards. Things got a lot busier for me and both dropped by the wayside a little...however, I continued watching on a whim a couple of weeks ago and I've now finished Buffy.

It is definitely one of the best shows I've ever watched. It was funny, witty, exciting, and had a great set of characters. It had its low points, but even they were usually entertaining in one way or another. I'm definitely going to miss watching this - luckily I have season five of Angel to console myself with!

Angel has been brilliant as well. While I wasn't a fan of Jasmine - arguably the weakest Big Bad from either series so far, I think - and Connor is really irritating, it echoes Buffy in that it has a really compelling cast to anchor the weaker storylines. I'm a little annoyed that Cordelia got kicked to the wayside and I'm hoping for a stronger resolution for her in season five. The Beast/Angelus/Faith stuff was all gold, though.

 

[Thundarr]

I'm rewatching Buffy on DVD for Halloween. It's only the 6th of the month, and I've already gotten through the first 4 seasons. Still love this show.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I gotta say, I started watching this over the summer and besides work it became a lot of my summer. I'm on season 5 right now and I absolutely love this show. Just some of the best writing and writing of characters I've seen on television. It's one of those rare shows where just when you think it's gonna be a filler episode, it's anything but. It's taught me a lot about writing for television actually. It's really a wonder that channels like the WB actually had good television. Had I been old enough at the time of the show's run, I would have eaten this up.

Season One - Great

Season Two - ****ing Amazing

Season Three - Still Absolutely ****ing Amazing

Season Four - Very Good - though it has "Hush" and one of my favorites when Giles turns into a demon. Plus Spike being "neutered" has been executed very well thus far into season five. He's still as entertaining as his brilliant introduction in season two.

Season Five - So far, I'm liking this season more than four. I much prefer Glory over Adam and the whole Initiative thing. Now that Riley is out of the way (at least for now) I enjoy single Buffy anyhow. And after getting over how annoying Dawn was at the beginning, she's actually fine now.

 

[flickchick85]

I gotta say, I started watching this over the summer and besides work it became a lot of my summer. I'm on season 5 right now and I absolutely love this show. Just some of the best writing and writing of characters I've seen on television. It's one of those rare shows where just when you think it's gonna be a filler episode, it's anything but. It's taught me a lot about writing for television actually. It's really a wonder that channels like the WB actually had good television. Had I been old enough at the time of the show's run, I would have eaten this up.

Season One - Great

Season Two - ****ing Amazing

Season Three - Still Absolutely ****ing Amazing

Season Four - Very Good - though it has "Hush" and one of my favorites when Giles turns into a demon. Plus Spike being "neutered" has been executed very well thus far into season five. He's still as entertaining as his brilliant introduction in season two.

Season Five - So far, I'm liking this season more than four. I much prefer Glory over Adam and the whole Initiative thing. Now that Riley is out of the way (at least for now) I enjoy single Buffy anyhow. And after getting over how annoying Dawn was at the beginning, she's actually fine now.

Glad to hear you're enjoying it so far! I'll be very interested in hearing your thoughts on S5 once you finish. That one remains my favorite of the bunch. But yeah, S2 and S3 especially are fantastic also.

Also, once you finish the show, you might want to go back and watch "Restless" from S4 again. I know it's not everyone's cup o' tea, but it's one that really benefits from re-watches. Over the years it's become my favorite episode the show ever did.

You watching or planning to watch Angel?

 

[ComicChick]

this reminds me i need to finish watching this show. still on season 3k, few eps in

 

[Primal Slayer]

Season 3 only gets better and better, need to finish that!

And I wish we could get a new Vampire Slayer series, Joss needs to find a way to bring the series back the status quo and it could very much be like Bond/DW. CW or some station needs to jump on that.

 

[ComicChick]

i wouldnt mind a movie before they all get too too old lol

wishful thinking i am sure

 

[Primal Slayer]

They already act like they are ancient. The whole "to hard to get everyone together again" excuse never worked for me, it was really weak.

 

[ComicChick]

even the friends cast can find the time to be on each other's shows and they are an older bunch

other than hannigan and boreanaz, is anyone else on anything? i know gellar had the show with robin williams, but i've never seen it. is it still on?

 

[Hush]

It is and it looks to be staying.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

If in the future they were to ever re visit the Buffyverse, would you prefer:

1. A remake with the same characters but a new cast?

2. A new Slayer, Watcher and scooby gang, but with the occasional cameo from an alum?

I'd definitely rather No.2.

 

[Lord]

I would prefer something different than just making the same thing again, even option 2 seems like a retreat, if they did more i would like it to be a little different, a Fray adaptation could be amazing, expecially if it then continued the story.

 

[Havok83]

Id do something more along the lines of an Angel remake instead. Obviously wouldn't feature him bc of the whole aging thing, but if they created a new series inspired by the Buffyverse, it would be interesting to have the vamp be the main character and written from his perspective with the slayer thrown in as a supporting character to him instead

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I would prefer something different than just making the same thing again, even option 2 seems like a retreat, if they did more i would like it to be a little different, a Fray adaptation could be amazing, expecially if it then continued the story.

I would LOVE a Fray adaption, but I don't know if they'll ever think like us

The two options I mentioned where just the ones I see as most likely.

Id do something more along the lines of an Angel remake instead. Obviously wouldn't feature him bc of the whole aging thing, but if they created a new series inspired by the Buffyverse, it would be interesting to have the vamp be the main character and written from his perspective with the slayer thrown in as a supporting character to him instead

I feel like Angel doesn't lend himself as well to a revisit though, because his situation is supposed to be totally unique. We already had Spike be a vampire with a soul as well, if they did it again it'd cheapen it.

Whereas within the context of that world, another Slayer is totally an option, even if set in the future like Fray.

 

[Havok83]

I feel like Angel doesn't lend himself as well to a revisit though, because his situation is supposed to be totally unique. We already had Spike be a vampire with a soul as well, if they did it again it'd cheapen it.

Whereas within the context of that world, another Slayer is totally an option, even if set in the future like Fray.

well for a reboot none of that stuff would matter. A new vampire with a soul could be a unique thing within the context of this universe that's inspired by the Buffyverse, but not actually a continuation of the original. For a reboot, they'd be free to make up their own rules so the whole concept of souls and how things work could be something different as well. I wouldn't expect things to be a rehash with new people.

 

[Lord]

I don't think they should reboot the buffyverse, if this was a show like Charmed full of wasted material i could see why, but with Buffy there's not much more you can do by doing it over again. Now that Whedon is making Billion dollars worth movies i hope he buys the rights for his franchise himself, or he could ask the little Mouse to do so since he's becoming a huge asset to them.

 

[ComicChick]

id even be ok with something animated voiced by orig cast lol

 

[Donnie Darko]

id even be ok with something animated voiced by orig cast lol

I would love that! I remember them talking about an animated series years ago, but obviously it never happened. I feel like they could do a dtv animated movie, and it would sell as well as the Marvel or DC animated movies.

 

[Lord]

The original animated show wasn't picked, but you can watch the pilot on youtube

 

[Primal Slayer]

I am still surprised that no one picked up the animated pilot. I think it wouldve been successful. And I am still surprised that with what a major success the comic has been, Dark Horse/FOX havent thought about producing any dtvs or anything for the series.

 

[Mani-Man]

If in the future they were to ever re visit the Buffyverse, would you prefer:

1. A remake with the same characters but a new cast?

2. A new Slayer, Watcher and scooby gang, but with the occasional cameo from an alum?

I'd definitely rather No.2.

Nothing of those, if there will be actual plans to bring back buffy on the Tv then i only want it to continue were it left of.

Get them all back together, nowadays buffy could work even better then 10 years ago.

 

[Great Mind(s)]

I'd love a third Buffyverse show! It should be as different from Buffy and Angel as Angel was from Buffy. A Giles show set in England, it was going to happen at one point. It could have cameos from others characters, Faith, Illyria, Spike, Willow. Maybe Buffy cameo too. Sigh. I want it back. I love Joss but his shows post Buffy/Angel aren't as good. There's just a magic there and it'd be a sin to not ... make it a trilogy of sorts. One more series or movie or something Joss, please!