Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel the Vampire - Part 2

[S. Grundy]

I never liked what they did with her. Just seemed like it was spitting in the characters face. Luckily we had Fred to make up for it!

Yeah, she just started becoming more and more annoying.

 

[metaphysician]

Agreed wholeheartedly. Would have made sense for Angel to try and help redeem one of his own creations too. He just could never see past vamps being evil soulless monsters though

Um, that's because vampires *are* evil soulless monsters. Before Spike, there was literally no evidence that a vampire could even *try* to be not-evil, without an external supernatural force allowing/forcing it. And even with Spike, to say that there were extraordinary circumstances is putting it lightly.

 

[ComicChick]

Yeah, she just started becoming more and more annoying.

i loved fred. not to spoil anything, but i think that fred's the first tv character who had a scene that made me cry

 

[Primal Slayer]

Cordelia shouldve gotten a similar storyline to Freds instead of just having her climb that cliff only to throw her off. Cordelia peaked in S2 of Angel for me. Minus Charismas awful hair cut choices. Never shouldve chopped off her locks and go blonde only to chop even more off.

 

[ComicChick]

i wasn't a fan much of the short hair either

when she had the visions i felt she was her strongest. one of her best moments, or episodes i guess, for me was the one where she was given a chance to live without her visions, had all the fame and whatnot she wanted, but when she saw what had happened to her friends, she made the sacrifice and took them back. i think that was late season 1 or early season 2 of angel?

 

[Charlie Boy]

I thought what they did with her in the season 3 finale was such an odd way to go for that character. Everything regarding Cordy in season 4 was a mess though, not that I really blame anyone. They were under the gun what with Charisma being knocked up and all.

I will always be a little bitter about Fred's season 5 arc, but it was done so well that it takes a bit of the sting out.

I have a soft spot for werewolves, so had the show not been cancelled, it would've been interesting to see which direction they took Nina.

 

[ComicChick]

i feel the same way about fred in season 5

 

[Great Mind(s)]

i wasn't a fan much of the short hair either

when she had the visions i felt she was her strongest. one of her best moments, or episodes i guess, for me was the one where she was given a chance to live without her visions, had all the fame and whatnot she wanted, but when she saw what had happened to her friends, she made the sacrifice and took them back. i think that was late season 1 or early season 2 of angel?

Great episode I think it was the middle of season 3. Skip.

I'm excited for Doctor Jones, I wish my friends wanna watch these shows with me

 

[Great Mind(s)]

I thought what they did with her in the season 3 finale was such an odd way to go for that character. Everything regarding Cordy in season 4 was a mess though, not that I really blame anyone. They were under the gun what with Charisma being knocked up and all.

I will always be a little bitter about Fred's season 5 arc, but it was done so well that it takes a bit of the sting out.

I have a soft spot for werewolves, so had the show not been cancelled, it would've been interesting to see which direction they took Nina.

I had read they were gonna bring Oz back to help her. :'(

 

[Charlie Boy]

Yeah, Whedon was always trying to find a way to bring Oz onto Angel. That would have been great.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I'm already two episodes into season 2 of Angel, and I can already tell the shift in the show. There's much more confidence to it. Angel singing and dancing... it doesn't get any better than that.

 

[Great Mind(s)]

Yeah season 2 onward has a more epic, cinematic feel to it.

 

[Havok83]

Wow I had no idea Oz was set for Angel. Its too bad Faith wasnt made a regular bc her appearances are among my favorite episodes. Her fight with the Beast in S4 is one of the best

 

[Maximus One]

Yea once they get to The Hyperion just them having a bigger space to work out of just gives the entire show a different feel

 

[metaphysician]

Wow I had no idea Oz was set for Angel. Its too bad Faith wasnt made a regular bc her appearances are among my favorite episodes. Her fight with the Beast in S4 is one of the best

What makes it worse is how badly they misused her back on Buffy. She only existed to be wrong, so that Buffy could look good ( even when Faith was *right* by all rational standards, and Buffy's ideas were idiotic but improbably lucky ).

 

[Maximus One]

Um, that's because vampires *are* evil soulless monsters. Before Spike, there was literally no evidence that a vampire could even *try* to be not-evil, without an external supernatural force allowing/forcing it. And even with Spike, to say that there were extraordinary circumstances is putting it lightly.

Ummm, he still let Harmony be his secretary. It was displayed plenty of times on the show that a vampire could change if they wanted to. I always thought the whole thing with vamps being soulless stupid anyways. Brings up too many questions. Why would they even retain any memories or personality characteristics without a soul? Wouldn't they just be a mindless monster? Always thought that explanation was dumb but I guess they could never have thought of making Angel just a conflicted vampire. There just had to be some supernatural reason he wasn't like other vamps and felt remorse. Always thought that was more detrimental to the character and always used more as a plot device

 

[Hush]

Ummm, he still let Harmony be his secretary. It was displayed plenty of times on the show that a vampire could change if they wanted to. I always thought the whole thing with vamps being soulless stupid anyways. Brings up too many questions. Why would they even retain any memories or personality characteristics without a soul? Wouldn't they just be a mindless monster? Always thought that explanation was dumb but I guess they could never have thought of making Angel just a conflicted vampire. There just had to be some supernatural reason he wasn't like other vamps and felt remorse. Always thought that was more detrimental to the character and always used more as a plot device

I always saw vampires in the Buffyverse as when they were not Vamped out they were able to use there brains and access memories but did not feel love or anything unless they forced themselves too, which was a great and taxing thing to do, and when they Vamped out the Demon that was in their immortal body's came out and its characteristics came out and forced them to be more savage. Angelus is a different character than Angel just like William was a different person from Spike the only difference is Angelus was given a soul and thus became Angel who was not the Demon under his skin.

Maybe im rambling but thats how I see it. hahaha

 

[Havok83]

Ummm, he still let Harmony be his secretary. It was displayed plenty of times on the show that a vampire could change if they wanted to. I always thought the whole thing with vamps being soulless stupid anyways. Brings up too many questions. Why would they even retain any memories or personality characteristics without a soul? Wouldn't they just be a mindless monster? Always thought that explanation was dumb but I guess they could never have thought of making Angel just a conflicted vampire. There just had to be some supernatural reason he wasn't like other vamps and felt remorse. Always thought that was more detrimental to the character and always used more as a plot device

No bc they aren't zombies. I don't see why they wouldn't retain memories.

The supernatural reason he was different was bc of the gypsy spell. That was core to his character

 

[Primal Slayer]

One thing Buffy did great was taking their minor supporting characters and turning them into comedy gold.

 

[Great Mind(s)]

The soul / no soul thing is good for these series because it gives them interesting storylines to play with. Angel is like part Joker part Batman.

 

[Donnie Darko]

One thing Buffy did great was taking their minor supporting characters and turning them into comedy gold.

So true. The supporting cast on Buffy was always really funny. I mean, Buffy didn't deliver the laughs very often herself (but she did sometimes), but Willow, Xander, Anya, Andrew, Spike, and even Giles did. That doesn't even get into the comedy from big bads, vamps, and other minor demons.

 

[Havok83]

I don't think any of those characters except Andrew and maybe Anya early on count as minor supporting characters. They were all regulars.

 

[Donnie Darko]

Yeah, I just meant the "supporting" cast in general, even though they were all major players in the show.

 

[ComicChick]

not enough love for Lorne, loved him RIP

 

[eddy]

i wasn't a fan much of the short hair either

when she had the visions i felt she was her strongest. one of her best moments, or episodes i guess, for me was the one where she was given a chance to live without her visions, had all the fame and whatnot she wanted, but when she saw what had happened to her friends, she made the sacrifice and took them back. i think that was late season 1 or early season 2 of angel?

Thats Birthday from Season 3.