Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel the Vampire - Part 2

[Maximus One]

Interesting and I'll even give ya the deserving of being the final villain. I dunno though, I just never liked it much. Caleb was a great villain but The First never really seemed to do much but talk talk talk and impersonate dead people. I never dug it all that much. I think they could have come up with something better. Woulda been nice if season 7 of Buffy and season 4 of Angel had synced up more than the little bit they did. The events in LA in season 4 were just too big to have not effected the rest of the world and vice versa

 

[Havok83]

I loved The First. I was disappointed that it didnt become corporeal in the end though. Buffy fighting all her past foes, including herself would have been epic

 

[Maximus One]

Yea that woulda been cool

 

[Lord]

It's a shame Chosen wasn't a two parter like it was originally intented to be, it was still awesome but that's still a shame. While the show had a lot of fake looking effects, i think the ones in Chosen still hold up quite well

 

[Primal Slayer]

yeah Chosen was originally suppose to be a lot bigger. Oz was even suppose to come back.

And they were suppose to address the sun going out on Buffy but I think it got cut from the script. If the two were still on the same network I think things wouldve turned out different.

 

[Maximus One]

Yea it was over the network issue. Still though, here on my cable they were still on the same damn channel.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I wish UPN could've gotten Angel when they got Buffy. That is probably the only reason why they renewed Angel just to keep it out of UPNs hands.

 

[metaphysician]

I think the problem with Buffy, ultimately, was that a coming of age story has to end. Eventually, you stop "growing up", and become "grown up". And the kind of life Buffy was living should have forced *quicker* growing up, not slower. The writers just didn't handle the transition well/avoided doing it at all.

A redemption story like in Angel, by contrast, can have an entirely legitimate answer of "Redemption is not something you finish. It is a constant struggle, day after day, that never ends." And even then, Angel arguably "finished" his primary character arc, when he eventually made peace with this fact.

 

[Lord]

That's the same problem i found in Smallville too, it seems that when the characters reach University the writers stop caring about how they are able to make their life on the real world and they simpy never get past that stage of their life, unlike with high school

 

[Primal Slayer]

Buffy already did some quick growing up but she was also trying really hard to keep hold of her teen life. She has been one of the only slayers to still live with her family/friends when she was chosen. And who knows what Dawn changed when she got inserted into everyones minds. Buffy was only what? 22/23 when the show ended? Still a lot of growing to do.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Hold on to your breeches. S6 of Buffy is about as dark and depressing as it gets. The **** finally caught up to the Scooby gang, and Whedon made it his mission to emotionally destroy those characters and the viewers.

I am excite.

They could have been alright if not for Jonathan. I HATED him. One of the worst character on the show and I hated how he got an expanded role in season 6. I loved Warren and liked Andrew

Nice. Season 1 is definetly the weakest of the floor. If you are enjoying it now, you'll love whats to come down the line. It gets so much better in season 2 and is downright amazing in season 3. Cordelia gets some much needed character growth and its cool to watch her transformation when thinking about where she came from in Buffy

Cool. I gotta say, I absolutely love Wesley. Probably because I can identify with a lot of his characteristics. Looking forward to what's to come for him in development.

 

[flickchick85]

Yeah, I always felt the same about both shows myself. I kind of dismissed them as silly too. And the thing is, when I'm still watching Buffy, I get to a certain episode where I sigh and think, "Oh boy, it's gonna be one of these episodes" yet it completely subverts and exceeds my expectations of what actually happens. Just when you think it will be filler it's anything but. This can be said the most for the first two seasons. You knew this was something different when the dummy episode in season one turned out to be more amazing than it lead itself onto be.

And I've started S6 of Buffy. It's nice seeing Buffy back. I'm not a huge fan of The Trio though. Talk about grating at times. But the next episode is, "Once More With Feeling" so I am excited about that. t:

I must admit, I'm not the biggest fan of S6. I liked the ideas behind it a lot more than the execution. Just so damn depressing. But "Once More..." and "Tabula Rasa" are awesome. I was really glad to be watching that in parallel with Angel, because that season coincided with Angel S3, which was just utterly fantastic, so right when I was becoming less enthused about the storylines in Buffy, Angel was right there to remind me why I loved the Whedonverse so much in the first place.

And I started Angel today.... I'm on episode 12. The last one actually had Jeremy Renner in it which was a great episode in itself.

Once I got over the tonal shift from Buffy to Angel, I love it for what it is. A darker, edgier detective based Whedon show with Buffy characters? Yes please.

And Doyle... I hardly knew thee. That episode killed me. But at least Wesley has made up for it. His inclusion was brilliant. Plus I'm loving Cordelia's ever evolving character.

Nice! I never expected you to start it right away, haha. And yeah, Doyle's death is particularly heartbreaking to me due to the real life circumstances (the actor had some drug problems that ultimately lead to his death a couple years later).

Cordelia's evolution is definitely one of the highlights of the early seasons of that show. If you already like it now, I can't wait to hear your reactions to the later seasons. I feel like the finale of S1 is where that show really kicks into gear.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I must admit, I'm not the biggest fan of S6. I liked the ideas behind it a lot more than the execution. Just so damn depressing. But "Once More..." and "Tabula Rasa" are awesome. I was really glad to be watching that in parallel with Angel, because that season coincided with Angel S3, which was just utterly fantastic, so right when I was becoming less enthused about the storylines in Buffy, Angel was right there to remind me why I loved the Whedonverse so much in the first place.

Nice! I never expected you to start it right away, haha. And yeah, Doyle's death is particularly heartbreaking to me due to the real life circumstances (the actor had some drug problems that ultimately lead to his death a couple years later).

Cordelia's evolution is definitely one of the highlights of the early seasons of that show. If you already like it now, I can't wait to hear your reactions to the later seasons. I feel like the finale of S1 is where that show really kicks into gear.

I watched "Once More" and "Tabula Rosa" and both were great. I mean if I couldn't be more impressed with Whedon more, the man can write ****ing songs.

I'm already loving Angel so of course I can't wait for what's to come. And it gets better you say? My God. I am getting spoiled with all of this great television.

 

[flickchick85]

I watched "Once More" and "Tabula Rosa" and both were great. I mean if I couldn't be more impressed with Whedon more, the man can write ****ing songs.

I'm already loving Angel so of course I can't wait for what's to come. And it gets better you say? My God. I am getting spoiled with all of this great television.

Yep! Though I don't know how far you've gotten since your last post, but episode 12 is about where the S1 slump really hits. There's a whole stretch of about 4 or 5 episodes there which I count not just as the worst of the season, but among the worst in the entire series (minus the excellent "The Prodigal," which somehow got mixed in there). But once you get to a certain cross-over two-parter, you're outta the woods and onto the good stuff. t:

 

[Hush]

I love when a young Jeremy Renner shows up in Angel, his character was wasted in my opinion and could have been an awesome addition to the cast but oh well it was cool to see him in the show.

 

[ComicChick]

man reading this thread makes me want to jump back into it

im not big on the vampire genre at all. ironically enough, i've thoroughly enjoyed buffy and angel and of late the vampire diaries on tv and the vampire academy books.

i think the reason i enjoy them so much is that i forget they are about vampires. the characters are so strong and the universes , the history and storylines draw you in. they're just solidly written, acted, whatever you wanna call it. do i make sense?

on the other hand, i read twilight so i could form my own opinion on it. and i watched the first film for the same reason. i never forgot while reading or watching that it was about vampires. the characters didn't interest me (save alice and carlisle) and the storyline wasn't very investing for me

 

[Primal Slayer]

Cordelias character kept rising since S1 of Buffy but wow did they crash her into the ground come S4 of Angel.

 

[Marvolo]

Cordelias character kept rising since S1 of Buffy but wow did they crash her into the ground come S4 of Angel.

I never liked what they did with her. Just seemed like it was spitting in the characters face. Luckily we had Fred to make up for it!

 

[metaphysician]

OTOH, she got a great send-off in s5.

 

[Havok83]

I don't think that was a great send off. It helped give some closure but I still hated how she went out. I don't think Joss handled her pregnancy well at all and he did a disservice to the character in the process

 

[Maximus One]

I love when a young Jeremy Renner shows up in Angel, his character was wasted in my opinion and could have been an awesome addition to the cast but oh well it was cool to see him in the show.

Agreed wholeheartedly. Would have made sense for Angel to try and help redeem one of his own creations too. He just could never see past vamps being evil soulless monsters though

 

[Doctor Jones]

Yep! Though I don't know how far you've gotten since your last post, but episode 12 is about where the S1 slump really hits. There's a whole stretch of about 4 or 5 episodes there which I count not just as the worst of the season, but among the worst in the entire series (minus the excellent "The Prodigal," which somehow got mixed in there). But once you get to a certain cross-over two-parter, you're outta the woods and onto the good stuff. t:

I'm about to start episode 20 and I actually really liked some of those episodes in between. I enjoyed, " I've Got You Under My Skin" with them trying to exorcise the demon from the boy, "The Ring" with Angel forced to fight in the underground arena and of course the excellent Faith two parter.

 

[flickchick85]

I'm about to start episode 20 and I actually really liked some of those episodes in between. I enjoyed, " I've Got You Under My Skin" with them trying to exorcise the demon from the boy, "The Ring" with Angel forced to fight in the underground arena and of course the excellent Faith two parter.

Oh good, if you didn't hate those, then you should really love what's to come, haha.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Angel and Wesley dancing is perhaps the greatest gift to man.

 

[flickchick85]

Angel and Wesley dancing is perhaps the greatest gift to man.

Haha yes! Once you finish each season, you should check out the bloopers. Angel's bloopers were always fun.