Its too bad that Cordelia never crossed back over to Buffy. I would have liked to have seen the gang react to the changes that happened with her by season 3. Like Xander learning she were part demon and Buffy finding out that she and Angel were developing feelings for each other. And overall that she was a much better person. I guess Willow saw some of this when she came in S4, but that really wasn't Cordy she was interacting with so it didn't really count. Oh and on a similar note, its a shame Buffy never got to see what a badass Wesley ended up being
Cordelia should've returned for Xander's wedding. That would've been interesting and comedy gold.
I think Joss Whedon went out of his way to keep from addressing things that were happening on Angel onscreen over on Buffy. I know they couldn't do cross overs during Season 6 but in Season 7 they did and they completely parkaed over Connor, Cordelia/Angel, and anything else that would've taken more than 5 minutes for the characters to talk about. I guess what with it being the last season they needed that time to devote to important series ending issues like Andrew and Kennedy.
Yeah it was a real shame that Cordelia never came back for an episode, same with Xander or Giles never crossing over to Angel. And I dont even think they really could do that much crossing over in S7/4 with out it feeling to forced. But thank the lord that WB decided to lift that cross over ban.
Both shows had me in tears on various occasions. Off the top of my head (and of course, reader beware, big spoilers below):
Buffy:
Buffy stabbing Angel and sending him to a demon dimension.
Buffy's death at the end of S5 (Spike's reaction does it for me every time).
Oz's departure.
Aftermath of Joyce's death (one of my favourite episodes).
Xander bringing Willow back from the brink at the end of S6.
Tara's death.
Angel
Doyle's death.
Fred's death.
I have to sit down and watch both shows again soon. I love revisiting the show as I always find my opinions of storylines and characters changing every time.
If I had one criticism it would be how Joss approached character growth. Sometimes it just never felt authentic; examples being Fred and Wesley doing complete 180s in terms of personality. Other times it just felt changes were made to keep them relevant, such as
Gunn the lawyer and Spike with a soul. I really hated that whole development, it did lead to some nice moments in S7 but I don't know; they had brought Spike to a really interesting place in terms of the conflict within him at the end of S6. I would have preferred to see that conflict continue minus the soul in S7. It also made the whole vampire with a soul thing cliched which I didn't like.
For me, Willow, Cordelia and Xander were Joss' best efforts at character growth. The more Willow changed, the more she changed for both better and worse. With Xander, I used to hate him but as I got older he actually became the most relatable character on the show. He felt real. Cordelia was moulded by the things she experienced; reborn if you will from the pain she saw and suffered and I really loved that whole approach (too bad they jumped the shark in the end, even if they went some way to making amends in the 100th episode of Angel).
I didnt exactly cry at Freds death but at Wesley's death in the arms of Fredllyria. Ermergerd first time a show did that to me. Because of everything that guy went through and it all came down to a few seconds of a fantasy before the life fades away. And Ilyria crying and kicking ass. Oh lawdy how I wanted more Illyria.
Both shows had me in tears on various occasions. Off the top of my head (and of course, reader beware, big spoilers below):
Buffy:
Buffy stabbing Angel and sending him to a demon dimension.
Buffy's death at the end of S5 (Spike's reaction does it for me every time).
Oz's departure.
Aftermath of Joyce's death (one of my favourite episodes).
Xander bringing Willow back from the brink at the end of S6.
Tara's death.
Angel
Doyle's death.
Fred's death.
I have to sit down and watch both shows again soon. I love revisiting the show as I always find my opinions of storylines and characters changing every time.
If I had one criticism it would be how Joss approached character growth. Sometimes it just never felt authentic; examples being Fred and Wesley doing complete 180s in terms of personality. Other times it just felt changes were made to keep them relevant, such as
Gunn the lawyer and Spike with a soul. I really hated that whole development, it did lead to some nice moments in S7 but I don't know; they had brought Spike to a really interesting place in terms of the conflict within him at the end of S6. I would have preferred to see that conflict continue minus the soul in S7. It also made the whole vampire with a soul thing cliched which I didn't like.
For me, Willow, Cordelia and Xander were Joss' best efforts at character growth. The more Willow changed, the more she changed for both better and worse. With Xander, I used to hate him but as I got older he actually became the most relatable character on the show. He felt real. Cordelia was moulded by the things she experienced; reborn if you will from the pain she saw and suffered and I really loved that whole approach (too bad they jumped the shark in the end, even if they went some way to making amends in the 100th episode of Angel).
Agreed with all those spoilers making me come to tears. "The Body" was nothing short of a masterpiece and still to this day the most underrated episode of a show I've ever seen.
Agreed with all those spoilers making me come to tears. "The Body" was nothing short of a masterpiece and still to this day the most underrated episode of a show I've ever seen.
I really wish they'd re-release Angel on Bluray. I popped in my DVD bc this thread had me feeling nostalgic and the visuals have definetly shown their age. Considering the show airs in HD on TBS, the logistics of remastering shouldn't be an issue. Id double dip
People complain too much about her I think. Yeah, she was an annoying teen, but that's how a lot of teens are. She also had to deal with the fact later on that she wasn't "real" and a bunch of other stuff. I like Dawn. She's underrated.
I never had a problem with Dawn. I wouldn't say I was particularly fond of her, but I loved the way she was introduced and the entire plot surrounding her character's existence, so that was enough for me. It made sense to me that she was annoying and immature since the monks shaped her backstory in a way that made Buffy and Joyce super protective and sheltering of her. And then I thought she had some nice moments in Season 7.
I think she evolved nicely into a likable character. Which is more than I can say for Connor. He only became likable once his past and memories were rewritten. Which is to say... he only became likable when he became another person entirely.
I think she evolved nicely into a likable character. Which is more than I can say for Connor. He only became likable once his past and memories were rewritten. Which is to say... he only became likable when he became another person entirely.
Really I didn't like Connor at first but in retrospect he was good IMO. He was an actual character as opposed to Dawn who had no arc or story beyond S5. We knew what made Connor tick and why he did the things he did. I dunno.
In least Connor had a reason to be like that, being raised in a hellish dimension and being told about how bad Angel and his company are does that to you.
He was raised in a hell dimension! What's Dawn's excuse? she has happy memories of a life being the kid sister to Buffy! Connor with happy memories is a cool nice fellow.
I always thought Angel having a kid was kinda dumb in the first place but god damn did it ever give us some of the show's best moments with Darla and Angel. **** I miss this universe.
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