Fantasy Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel the Vampire - Part 3

[SiegePerilous]

Borenaz tweeted in support of Carpenter

 

[batdude]

I don't like fans making demands of people. No-one has to speak out, especially so quickly. They have a right to privacy and a right to deal with a situation first before issuing statements. Everyone had their own experience on that show and it is reactionary and not productive to hound presumably innocent parties for information, especially when it is likely to be sensitive information.

I think I follow Hannigan on ig. I've seen her posts at least. She posted a pic of her daughter as Dark Willow Jr like a week ago. This is incredibly close to home. I can't speak to her experience but the lady met her husband and father of her kids while working on Buffy. It's distasteful to bother someone to spill the beans on their life to the public so we can play detective.

Look, I think something happened here, but I think it's important to remember that not everybody who worked on Buffy, Angel or Justice League did something wrong. To blame Alyson Hannigan is just Stupid!

 

[henzINNIT]

People... it's the Daily Mail.

That said, why are people making it about revealing anything? Isn't the general idea about support of thos who suffered? No one is saying anyone has to reveal anything, outside of the crazy Whedon fans that demand "proof" something happened. Just like, a sign of support for those already speaking out. SMG made it clear she didn't really want to talk about it, but still took the time to support Carpenter. And that was important, because a lot of this has been known for years and people ignored it, because there was no support for a Carpenter, like for a while there was no support for Fisher. Hell Gadot and Momoa came out saying there was an issue, and people acted as if that wasn't a thing. Support matters.

Support is very important. I did somewhat conflate supporting Charisma with 'revealing' something, which is not right and doesn't have to be the case. I guess I jumped there because the people we're asking support from were in the same conditions that led to the abuse, so we don't know what her story is raking up for other people.

The Mail is toilet paper, but they are exploiting the same old stupid twitter crowd proclaiming David Boreanaz' silence is 'deafening' because his tweet took a few days; when he has actually been supporting Charisma - just in real life. It's those people that bother me in this instance, because they're a hand grenade of crap thrown at people's accounts when it's only Joss who has earned it so far. Sick of that whole platform really and what it has done to discourse.

 

[chamber-music]

Look, I think something happened here, but I think it's important to remember that not everybody who worked on Buffy, Angel or Justice League did something wrong. To blame Alyson Hannigan is just Stupid!

Yep.

Anthony Head said he had no idea and he would of hoped his co-workers would of felt comfortable talking to him as he was a 'father figure' on the set.

Whedon sound's like a classic bully which means he would probably only start pushing around people he believed he could get away with pushing around. Someone like Head probably would of not tolerated that stuff so Whedon may of not done it around him.

 

[SiegePerilous]

Support is very important. I did somewhat conflate supporting Charisma with 'revealing' something, which is not right and doesn't have to be the case. I guess I jumped there because the people we're asking support from were in the same conditions that led to the abuse, so we don't know what her story is raking up for other people.

The Mail is toilet paper, but they are exploiting the same old stupid twitter crowd proclaiming David Boreanaz' silence is 'deafening' because his tweet took a few days; when he has actually been supporting Charisma - just in real life. It's those people that bother me in this instance, because they're a hand grenade of crap thrown at people's accounts when it's only Joss who has earned it so far. Sick of that whole platform really and what it has done to discourse.

I did notice that in her response to him on Twitter, Charisma made note to say David had reached out to her privately since Wednesday. So I'm guessing she's aware of the criticisms he's been getting, it's cool of her to at least attempt to squash them as inaccurate.

 

[DarkKnight88]

I did notice that in her response to him on Twitter, Charisma made note to say David had reached out to her privately since Wednesday. So I'm guessing she's aware of the criticisms he's been getting, it's cool of her to at least attempt to squash them as inaccurate.

THIS

Reaching out to her privately means more than tweeting for the world to see. The criticism was/is wrong, and now those people on twitter should apologize publicly. Of course they won’t because they don’t get irony.

 

[TheVileOne]

Social media is not a place for intelligent discourse. People have no obligation to voice allegations in public if they do not wish to.

Social media is a cultural cancer and has poisoned this generation. No one is entitled to a public statement from these performers. If they want to come forward and tell their story, that's their choice and perogative.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

 

[Kev4000]

At least Acker seems to had a good time on Angel. I wasnt sure about this since the Ilyria-thing to her.

 

[Primal Slayer]

At least Acker seems to had a good time on Angel. I wasnt sure about this since the Ilyria-thing to her.

She's besties w/Joss and had regular get togethers outside of work.

But what all of this tells me is that he singled people out and a lot of it happened behind closed doors

 

[DarthSkywalker]

THIS

Reaching out to her privately means more than tweeting for the world to see. The criticism was/is wrong, and now those people on twitter should apologize publicly. Of course they won’t because they don’t get irony.

Reaching out privately means more on a personal level perhaps, though in situations like this if you aren't willing to back someone in public, that can and has done damage on a personal level. If someone is not backed in public, they are easily dismissed and treated as if they and their allegation are not valid. Again, this happened with Carpenter for over a decade. It was happening with Ray Fisher just last year. People suddenly talking Fisher's allegations far more seriously since Carpenter went public, again.

Why are people ignoring what we are literally living through with this right now? Say Carpenter said it all again. Say that none of her co-stars or anyone else backed her in public. Say SMG did not say what she did, or Trachtenberg. How would that have played?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Social media is not a place for intelligent discourse. People have no obligation to voice allegations in public if they do not wish to.

Social media is a cultural cancer and has poisoned this generation. No one is entitled to a public statement from these performers. If they want to come forward and tell their story, that's their choice and perogative.

Vile, you are literally on social media right now.

Why are you conflating public support of others, with telling one's story of abuse, they may or may not exist?

 

[TheVileOne]

Vile, you are literally on social media right now.

Why are you conflating public support of others, with telling one's story of abuse, they may or may not exist?

I stand by what I said.

I am condemning anyone who attacks these performers by not posting something in 100 and how many characters on Twitter. Especially if there's no evidence to warrant such an attack.

 

[DarkKnight88]

Why are people ignoring what we are literally living through with this right now? Say Carpenter said it all again. Say that none of her co-stars or anyone else backed her in public. Say SMG did not say what she did, or Trachtenberg. How would that have played?

It would play out exactly as it did. Carpenter is the one that blew it up. Trachtenberg corroborated her story by telling her own story. SMG speaking publicly didn't do much other than say she supports victims. Boreanaz speaking out publicly isn't more than saying he supports her. And hey, that's great, but their support isn't the reason this is blowing up, I'm sorry. The reason this is getting as much traction as it has is because of the stories of Carpenter and Trachtenberg and showrunner Marti Noxon.

And it's behind the scenes that matters what happens next. So Joss Whedon is hated online? Who cares. It's who works for him next, who hires him next, who backs his next projects. That's the true power and will show who actually supports them.

Again, it is NOT ok for twitter to bully anyone to publicly "support" online. People have zero idea what is actually going on or not in the real world.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I stand by what I said.

I am condemning anyone who attacks these performers by not posting something in 100 and how many characters on Twitter. Especially if there's no evidence to warrant such an attack.

Did you condemn those that asked Ray Fisher for more info then he was willing or able to put out at the time he came forward with his accusations?

 

[TheVileOne]

Did you condemn those that asked Ray Fisher for more info then he was willing or able to put out at the time he came forward with his accusations?

False equivalences. And I said attack. Also, if anyone attacked Ray Fisher for his public statements, then yes, I condemn them as well. I agree with his statement about accountability is more important than entertainment.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It would play out exactly as it did. Carpenter is the one that blew it up. Trachtenberg corroborated her story by telling her own story. SMG speaking publicly didn't do much other than say she supports victims. Boreanaz speaking out publicly isn't more than saying he supports her. And hey, that's great, but their support isn't the reason this is blowing up, I'm sorry. The reason this is getting as much traction as it has is because of the stories of Carpenter and Trachtenberg and showrunner Marti Noxon.

And it's behind the scenes that matters what happens next. So Joss Whedon is hated online? Who cares. It's who works for him next, who hires him next, who backs his next projects. That's the true power and will show who actually supports them.

Again, it is NOT ok for twitter to bully anyone to publicly "support" online. People have zero idea what is actually going on or not in the real world.

We know this isn't true, because what Carpenter said wasn't new. If all it took was for Carpenter to come forward, then where was his heat on Whedon for the past decade? Like read what you wrote about Trachtenberg's and Noxon's statements. Moreover, yeah if you look at how the news was reported, SMG saying anything blew it up. She said she didn't want her name connected to Whedon anymore. The idea that that didn't matter, just isn't reality.

I am not saying any bullying is right or okay. That is different when saying that people coming out and showing supporter matters. Which is clearly does. We have the evidence of it with Carpenter and Fisher.

 

[TheVileOne]

It would play out exactly as it did. Carpenter is the one that blew it up. Trachtenberg corroborated her story by telling her own story. SMG speaking publicly didn't do much other than say she supports victims. Boreanaz speaking out publicly isn't more than saying he supports her. And hey, that's great, but their support isn't the reason this is blowing up, I'm sorry. The reason this is getting as much traction as it has is because of the stories of Carpenter and Trachtenberg and showrunner Marti Noxon.

And it's behind the scenes that matters what happens next. So Joss Whedon is hated online? Who cares. It's who works for him next, who hires him next, who backs his next projects. That's the true power and will show who actually supports them.

Again, it is NOT ok for twitter to bully anyone to publicly "support" online. People have zero idea what is actually going on or not in the real world.

If there was an investigation and Joss Whedon's exit from The Nevers was a result of the investigation, it was badly handled. WB claimed remedial action was taken as a result of the investigation. Yet Whedon was allowed to publicly exit the show while saving face. There was never any public statement about action being taken against Whedon. Just a vague statement about "remedial action."

 

[DarthSkywalker]

False equivalences. And I said attack. Also, if anyone attacked Ray Fisher for his public statements, then yes, I condemn them as well. I agree with his statement about accountability is more important than entertainment.

How is a false equivalence?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

If there was an investigation and Joss Whedon's exit from The Nevers was a result of the investigation, it was badly handled. WB claimed remedial action was taken as a result of the investigation. Yet Whedon was allowed to publicly exit the show while saving face. There was never any public statement about action being taken against Whedon. Just a vague statement about "remedial action."

Of course, which is why we saw people here arguing that he might not have been fired. It was the same with Carano and Disney. Where it seems they were just going to let her walk away, not renewing her contract. Her continue insanity is what led to Disney saying she wasn't working with them anymore. In a way that makes it sound she simply hadn't had her option picked up a while ago.

Look at how much Warner is suddenly trying to make it clear they don't want Whedon's name anywhere near the Nevers. That is cowardice.

 

[TheVileOne]

How is a false equivalence?

Cyberbullying is cyberbullying.

I'm not discussing this any further. I've said what I had to say.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Cyberbullying is cyberbullying.

I'm not discussing this any further. I've said what I had to say.

Of course it is. And why it is important that survivors receive support to avoid fandoms attacking them for speaking out against popular creators. To avoid the downplaying and dismissal of what people say. Like Ray Fisher or Charisma Carpenter both faced. Isolation is how these things continue. It is what keeps people from speaking out.

 

[#root]

Oh man... I was aware about his history with Carpenter and even remember rumours of SMG not getting along with him during the later seasons and wanting out but Benson? ****ing 14 year old Trachtenberg? I would say it’s... not surprising at this stage but still not any less disappointing that Buffy was such a horrible environment because of Whedon. I just hope that all this coming out is at least going to be cathartic for the victims. They are extremely brave for coming out and I’m proud of them. I’m wondering now if cast members from his other shows will speak out. I can’t imagine he behaved on those sets.

 

[henzINNIT]

At least Acker seems to had a good time on Angel. I wasnt sure about this since the Ilyria-thing to her.

I always saw Illyria as a gift to Acker tbh. There's a debate about Fred's death in the catalogue of Whedon brutally killing characters, but it always appeared as though it was a decision made for drama and for Amy Acker to flex in a very different role.

I never liked 'Evil Cordy' even as a concept, but I believe it was probably meant to be a similar situation. Once Charisma Carpenter became pregnant, the story she was handed was trash and whether this was deliberate or just writers scrambling we got a whole season of a character being stripped down to nothing. This was a blight on the show to begin with, but to know Carpenter's pain behind the scenes just makes the whole thing so depressing. To know she came back and absolutely killed her last episode, despite having to wade into it all again, that hurts man.

 

[henzINNIT]

How is a false equivalence?

Because what Ray Fisher has said and done and what Charisma Carpenter has said and done are not the same at all. Fisher invited skepticism with frequent communication of no substance and Carpenter was appropriately concise and candid. The level of support they received and speed it came to them are direct results of this approach.

To this day Fisher still hasn't made allegations that clear despite talking about it for months. Last tweet was less than a day ago and he used his platform to brag that he still hasn't been sued, despite it being plain as day he hasn't said a lawsuit's worth yet. I believe the evidence is in his favour here, but the guy has made it very easy to criticize.