Fantasy Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel the Vampire - Part 3

[Lily Adler]

My head canon is that the mistreated ladies of the Buffy-verse formed their own team in another realm. It's what Cordy left to do when she exited Angel. Cordy, Anya, Tara: swashbuckling queens of the multiverse.

Anya! Our comic relief who didn't deserve to go out like a punk.

Does Fred count?

 

[flickchick85]

Buffy turned out okay... Mostly. Spike got character development though...

And no one chose to bring him back. Anyway, he was a vampire who had nearly 2 centuries of evil to atone for. Buffy was at peace and expelled from “Heaven” by her friends.

 

[Lily Adler]

And no one chose to bring him back. Anyway, he was a vampire who had nearly 2 centuries of evil to atone for. Buffy was at peace and expelled from “Heaven” by her friends.

This universe is so wild, sometimes.

I'm actually terrified what the Faith spinoff would have been.

 

[flickchick85]

This universe is so wild, sometimes.

I'm actually terrified what the Faith spinoff would have been.

Well I’m guessing she wasn’t going back to prison lol.

 

[henzINNIT]

I wanna say it was pitched as an on-the-road kind of thing. Spike was gonna be in it.

 

[MilkmanDan]

I feel like the fandom has always collectively agreed Willow became awful in S6. Xander was just awful the whole show lol. And the show never really acknowledged his awfulness like it did with Willow, which made it worse.

My point is that many of those consistent problems with Xander were also present in Willow. He gets called out for his "Nice Guy TM" tendencies but she had the exact same sense of entitlement towards him. And her behaviour towards her romantic partners was just as bad as Xander's.

 

[Lily Adler]

I wanna say it was pitched as an on-the-road kind of thing. Spike was gonna be in it.

Oh God Faith and Spike better have not become **** buddies.

 

[Lily Adler]

My point is that many of those consistent problems with Xander were also present in Willow. He gets called out for his "Nice Guy TM" tendencies but she had the exact same sense of entitlement towards him. And her behaviour towards her romantic partners was just as bad as Xander's.

Xander was too mean and entitled for me to even fit the Nice Guy label. Once you realize he's Joss's self-insert, you realize oh this is what Joss thinks that's what that means.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

You know, while Xander gets a lot of well deserved criticism, I would argue that Willow has many of the same flaws and makes many similar mistakes.

Willow Rosenberg is not nearly on the same level as Alexander Lavelle Harris. Yes she did questionable things, was very flawed, but she was still ultimately someone you could root for.

If anything, Xander’s passive aggressive self was on the same level as Warren.

And no one chose to bring him back. Anyway, he was a vampire who had nearly 2 centuries of evil to atone for. Buffy was at peace and expelled from “Heaven” by her friends.

I still cry for Buffy. One minute you’re in Heaven, next minute you’re buried alive in your coffin.

I would’ve had to swung on Willow LOL.

 

[obredaan]

My point is that many of those consistent problems with Xander were also present in Willow. He gets called out for his "Nice Guy TM" tendencies but she had the exact same sense of entitlement towards him. And her behaviour towards her romantic partners was just as bad as Xander's.

All of the characters on Buffy are flawed and have moments where you as the viewer are supposed to dislike them. I have far less sympathy for Willow taking Dawn to a 'drug dealer' and almost killing her than I do over Xander lying about Angel. Both moments are problematic and show both characters being selfish but I guess it comes down to preference. Also, Willow probably should've gone to jail for wreckless driving while under the influence.

 

[Lily Adler]

All of the characters on Buffy are flawed and have moments where you as the viewer are supposed to dislike them. I have far less sympathy for Willow taking Dawn to a 'drug dealer' and almost killing her than I do over Xander lying about Angel. Both moments are problematic and show both characters being selfish but I guess it comes down to preference. Also, Willow probably should've gone to jail for wreckless driving while under the influence.

Still can't forgive how they wrote out Oz, Dawn going klepto, and Spike nearly raping Buffy.

 

[henzINNIT]

I'll be team Xander. He had noticeable flaws but shed most of them over the course of the show, and was ultimately a good person. Xander is an interesting time capsule to me, and very relatable to guys of the time. While I think he gets fair criticism, it can overshadow his better traits. The irksome things about him are also waaay more real than the others, so they can stand out more. Others did magical murders and assaults, but we have all encountered a Xander.

 

[Lily Adler]

I'll be team Xander. He had noticeable flaws but shed most of them over the course of the show, and was ultimately a good person. Xander is an interesting time capsule to me, and very relatable to guys of the time. While I think he gets fair criticism, it can overshadow his better traits. The irksome things about him are also waaay more real than the others, so they can stand out more. Others did magical murders and assaults, but we have all encountered a Xander.

 

[henzINNIT]

Still can't forgive how they wrote out Oz, Dawn going klepto, and Spike nearly raping Buffy.

I love the show to death but can't forgive most of the decisions made throughout Season 6 if I'm honest. Giles ditching his deeply depressed surrogate daughter is at the top of that list.

"You're 20 now Buffy. I know you just lost your mum, you just died yourself and were pulled from heaven. I know you are now the parent of a teenager, you have a house you can't aford, you dropped out of college and have no job, and you have a sacred duty to protect the world from evil (for which I am paid and you are not); but I think it's best for me to leave the country so you will stand on your own two feet."

Anya! Our comic relief who didn't deserve to go out like a punk.

Does Fred count?

Finding Fred's spiritual remains can be the first case.

Oh God Faith and Spike better have not become **** buddies.

Entirely possible. There's a scene between them in 'Dirty Girls' which was written as kind of a mini pilot for the Faith show. (Been a while, might be misremembering. Wanna say I got it from the DVD commentary)

 

[Primal Slayer]

I'm still not a fan of Buffy being broke upon her coming back to life.

Double Meat Palace is one of those episodes I just loathe. If ever there were a time to just have Buffy rejoin TWC and have them be like "we'll pay you like we shouldve" and introduce a new watcher to take Giles place.

 

[Lily Adler]

I love the show to death but can't forgive most of the decisions made throughout Season 6 if I'm honest. Giles ditching his deeply depressed surrogate daughter is at the top of that list.

"You're 20 now Buffy. I know you just lost your mum, you just died yourself and were pulled from heaven. I know you are now the parent of a teenager, you have a house you can't aford, you dropped out of college and have no job, and you have a sacred duty to protect the world from evil (for which I am paid and you are not); but I think it's best for me to leave the country so you will stand on your own two feet."



Finding Fred's spiritual remains can be the first case.



Entirely possible. There's a scene between them in 'Dirty Girls' which was written as kind of a mini pilot for the Faith show. (Been a while, might be misremembering. Wanna say I got it from the DVD commentary)

I get the behind the scenes reason for the handling of Giles in Season 6, but damn it was mishandled. Anya getting the magic shop because her love of capitalism was a fun, though.

 

[Filmfreak]

I get the behind the scenes reason for the handling of Giles in Season 6, but damn it was mishandled. Anya getting the magic shop because her love of capitalism was a fun, though.

What was the behind the scenes reason?

 

[Lily Adler]

What was the behind the scenes reason?

IIRC, Anthony Head wanted to leave the show because he had to be away from his family in England to film it. He wanted to do a spinoff of Giles for BBC, but it never came about.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Yeah… Giles basically telling Buffy to grow up after she went through something as traumatic as a resurrection didn’t age well at all. Even when I was 11 watching it, it felt wrong.

Should’ve been written where he was trapped into another dimension or something less deadbeat dad-ish.

 

[Lily Adler]

Yeah… Giles basically telling Buffy to grow up after she went through something as traumatic as a resurrection didn’t age well at all. Even when I was 11 watching it, it felt wrong.

Should’ve been written where he was trapped into another dimension or something less deadbeat dad-ish.

The fact Tara had to be the one to comfort Buffy after her emotional breakdown was heartbreaking.

 

[Filmfreak]

IIRC, Anthony Head wanted to leave the show because he had to be away from his family in England to film it. He wanted to do a spinoff of Giles for BBC, but it never came about.

I wonder what changed and he was more prominent in the last one. He was still recurring but I remember his presence way more than in season 6 where he basically left in the beginning and returned in the finale.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I wonder what changed and he was more prominent in the last one. He was still recurring but I remember his presence way more than in season 6 where he basically left in the beginning and returned in the finale.

I think it was due to the fact that it was the last season.

 

[Filmfreak]

I think it was due to the fact that it was the last season.

But was it supposed to be the last season? Even though it wrapped things up and end in a way that doesn't leave much room for a sequel I still remember reading Whedon wanted to do more, which he did in the form of comic book, and it was basically cancelled. Did he know early on that the network wouldn't renew and decided to end it this way?

 

[Primal Slayer]

But was it supposed to be the last season? Even though it wrapped things up and end in a way that doesn't leave much room for a sequel I still remember reading Whedon wanted to do more, which he did in the form of comic book, and it was basically cancelled. Did he know early on that the network wouldn't renew and decided to end it this way?

Yes. They started production knowing it would be the last season of Buffy. SMG wasnt coming back. Joss said he was done with "Buffy"

He wanted to keep the universe going in multiple spins offs that all stalled very fast

 

[Lily Adler]

Yes. They started production knowing it would be the last season of Buffy. SMG wasnt coming back. Joss said he was done with "Buffy"

He wanted to keep the universe going in multiple spins offs that all stalled very fast

Angel got cancelled the next TV season.