Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel the Vampire

[hopefuldreamer]

I actually think he did give her reason to expect more...he spent a whole week with her before he invited her to the party, and after they slept together he told her that he would call her and the only reason he couldn't spend more time with her that day was because his mum was coming to visit. It was also pretty obvious that he was doing exactly what he said he wasn't - using his dad's death to spin a sob story - which is pretty low.

That's the way I saw it, anyway.

Exactly.

Plenty of people, girls included, have casual sex at college and don't look back in the morning. But they are usually one night stands at a party when you've had a few too many tequila's.

Parker was horrible. He faked all this deep emotional stuff, acted all wounded and intense, played the role of a guy who was looking for a connection... But none of it was true.

And even the way he explained it to Willow was all fake and deep like some kind of philosophical revelation... Which was also fake.

We finally got to see the real Parker in the following episode when he said the difference between a freshman girl and a toilet seat is that a toilet seat doesn't follow you around after you use it.

That's who he was. And he'd been praying on the slightly naïve nature of girls in a new environment looking for some stability.

He LOVED the game of it. The wind up. The fact he made them fall in love with him first (which probably made the sex a lot better and empowering for him).

Sick sick sicko.

Sorry that rant was a bit much wasn't it

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

No, no, rant away, that's pretty much what the internet is fort:

My point is, do we know he was actually lying about any of it? Maybe he just decided Buffy wasn't the girl for him?

As for his toilet seat remark that's utterly unforgiveable but you must remember he had tried to apologise to Buffy and she'd knocked him unconscious with a branch?

It strikes me as a double standard. It reminds me of the ep of Firefly (Trash?) where Saffron leaves Mal naked and stranded in the desert. It's a funny scene but would we still think that if it was the other way around? (Hmmm, just thought of something I must add to the Dr Who thread)

BRING ON THE NIGHT

Spoiler

The Good;
The epic fight between Buffy and the Turok-Han. Love her speech at the end!
The Bad;
See above. Also it seems weird that Spike can be tortured by drowning when he doesn't breathe but I guess the reflex is still there? And most obvious of all why doesn't the Turok-Han finish Buffy when it has the chance? Or at least take her prisoner? I know she likes her job but considering what's at stake (pardon the pun) surely Buffy should just continue taking some sick days and prepare for what's ahead? ASH's name in the title spoils the suprise of Giles showing up.
Best line;
Dawnl; "There's blood on this. The First must have made a sacrifice. Or a music video" (too much MTV for you my girl!)
Women good/men bad;
Buffy has pics of Dawn, Joyce, Willow and Xander on her desk but none of her dad?
Jeez!;
Watching Buffy getting the stuffing knocked out of her is HORRIBLE! Not to mention the gruesome murder of the terrified Potential and poor Spike getting waterboarded.
Kinky dinky;
According to Anya demons used to boast about their evilness in an attempt to make her 'horny'. Dru/First says Spike used to like it when they'd 'Giggle, wiggle, squeal' and says she'd be bad if Spike likes it (Dru's dance move reminds me of Kate Bush doing Wuthering Heights!)
Captain Subtext;
And here's Kennedy who can convey an awful lot with just a look, you can see how Willow's mind is already working when Dawn asks her 'Does she want to eat?". Andrew seems to think that a good leader should have shiny hair.
Guantanamo Bay;
The gang still not hesitating to torture Andrew, even little Dawnie in on the act.
Scoobies to the ER;
No which is weird?
Missing scenes;
Apocalypses; 7,
Wheldon Cliches (with kind permission from Boo)

Scoobies in bondage:
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 5
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 4
Oz: 1
Faith: 3
Joyce: 1
Wes: 1
Xander; 2
Dawn; 4
Spike; 2

Scoobies knocked out: Anya by the First and Buffy by the Turok Han
Buffy: 20
Giles: 12
Cordy: 6
Xander: 15
Will: 9
Jenny: 2
Angel: 6
Oz: 3
Faith: 1
Joyce: 3
Wes: 1
Anya;7
Dawn; 4
Tara; 1
Spike; 1
Kills:
Buffy: 117 vamps, 60 demons, 6 monsters, 5 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot
Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demon, 1 human/1 god.
Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn+1 human.
Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie
Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans
Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1½ a demon, 1 human
Anya: 1 vamp and 1½ a demon
Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons
Spike; 9 vamps and 6 demons
Buffybot; 2 vamps
Tara; 1 demon
Dawn; 1 vamp + 1 demon

Scoobies go evil:
Giles: 1
Cordy: 1
Will: 3
Jenny: 1
Angel: 1
Oz: 1
Joyce: 1
Xander: 4
Anya; 1
Dawn; 1
Buffy; 1
Spike; 1

Alternate scoobies:
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 1
Will: 5
Jenny: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 2
Joyce: 2
Xander: 4
Tara; 1
Dawn;1
Spike; 1
Anya; 2

Recurring characters killed: 13
Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce, Katrina, Tara, Quentin Travers.

Sunnydale deaths; the poor Potential Annabelle
102

Total number of scoobies: 9, Giles and now add the first of the Potentials
Xander, Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Anya, Spike, Giles, Kennedy and Molly

Xander demon magnet: 5(6?)
Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot:
Giles: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 4
Riley; 1
Buffy; 1
Tara; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost:
Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes?
Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 2 possible, Dracula+RJ(?)
Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?)
Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca
Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley
Xander: 2; Faith, Anya
Willow: 2;Oz and Tara
Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vamp****e
Spike; 2 Buffy and Anya
Anya; 2 Spike and Xander
Dawn in peril; 14
Dawn the bashful virgin; 9
What the fanficcers thought;
Some good and bad on this one. Buffy captured by the First but rescued by Invisible Marcie from 'Out of Sight, Out of Mind' is cute. In a similar style Buffy rescued by invisible Dawn because they never did think to give the Nerd's raygun back. One truly schizo story stands out where Buffy is captured by the Turok-Han and then gangraped by it and the other Sunnydale demons. Just when you think it can't get any darker in the follow up story Joyce's ghost appears to her and gives her the resolve to kill the Turok-Han (castrating it in the process!) rescue Spike and escape. It ends with the greatest line, something like "In our darkest hour we all cry out to our creator, whether god or mother. For some loves can bring us strength from far beyond the grave"
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3004681/1/A_Higher_Being
If you like things weepy http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3038536/1/At_last

And if you like things a bit more kinky an amazing one where Buffy ends up a ponygirl hitched to Santa's sleigh!

Questions and observations;
Nice to see Dru back again. The last time we shall ever see Joyce/Kristine Sutherland on the show (sob!). I know we've been told that the vision Dawn has in CWDP is The First but is this the real Joyce here? It appears to Buffy in her dreams which we haven't seen it do before and seems very encouraging? Anya in glasses, have we seen that before? Why doesn't Buffy carry more weapons when she goes after Annabelle. Once again when faced with the Turok Han Buffy sensibly retreats whilst old Faith or Kendra might have fought to the death. I always thought the Turok-Han was huge but looking at it here it seems just normal human height. Does the First need Buffy and Spike to open the Hellmouth, is that why it keeps them alive? Shouldn't the scoobs take Buffy to hospital if they think she has internal bleeding?
Marks out of 10; 8/10

SHOWTIME

Spoiler

Halfway through season 7, nearly at the end now!
The Good;
The seige of Revello Drive and Buffy taking the Turok-Han down.
The Bad;
So why doesn't the Turok-Han attack night after night? The only thing I can think off is that it wanted to get some of the Potentials to Sunnydale? Or maybe the Turok-Han has some limits to it's strength and needs to 'recharge'? (this ep is set several days after the last)
Best line;
Buffy; "Welcome to thunderdome!" followed by "Dust, like all the rest"
Although I also like;
Rhona; (on being handed a sword) "What's the point?"
Kennedy; "It's the sharp end"
Women good/men bad;
Dawn says the Slayer is always female because girls are just cooler.
Jeez!;
Kinky dinky;
Anya once had a one night stand with the six spleened demon whilst wearing entrails! Anya is quite prepared to prostitute herself on behalf of the Scoobs.
Captain Subtext;
Will still shy about sharing Kennedy's bed but the rich minx isn't so hesitant. Andrew refers to his 'joystick hand' which even Xander won't 'touch' (interesting phrasing?).
Guantanamo Bay;
Scoobies to the ER;
Missing scenes;
Apocalypses; 7,
Wheldon Cliches (with kind permission from Boo)

Scoobies in bondage:
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 5
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 4
Oz: 1
Faith: 3
Joyce: 1
Wes: 1
Xander; 2
Dawn; 4
Spike; 2

Scoobies knocked out:
Buffy: 20
Giles: 12
Cordy: 6
Xander: 15
Will: 9
Jenny: 2
Angel: 6
Oz: 3
Faith: 1
Joyce: 3
Wes: 1
Anya;7
Dawn; 4
Tara; 1
Spike; 1
Kills: Xander and Kennedy kill a Bringer each. Buffy kills 4 Bringers and the Turok-Han
Buffy: 118 vamps, 60 demons, 6 monsters, 9 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot
Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demon, 1 human/1 god.
Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn+1 human.
Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie
Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans
Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1½ a demon, 2 humans
Anya: 1 vamp and 1½ a demon
Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons
Spike; 9 vamps and 6 demons
Buffybot; 2 vamps
Tara; 1 demon
Dawn; 1 vamp + 1 demon
Kennedy; 1 human

Scoobies go evil:
Giles: 1
Cordy: 1
Will: 3
Jenny: 1
Angel: 1
Oz: 1
Joyce: 1
Xander: 4
Anya; 1
Dawn; 1
Buffy; 1
Spike; 1

Alternate scoobies:
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 1
Will: 5
Jenny: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 2
Joyce: 2
Xander: 4
Tara; 1
Dawn;1
Spike; 1
Anya; 2

Recurring characters killed: 13
Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce, Katrina, Tara, Quentin Travers.

Sunnydale deaths; poor Eve
103

Total number of scoobies: 12, add Vi (my 2nd favourite Potential), Chloe and Rhona (my least favourite) to the list
Xander, Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Anya, Spike, Giles, Kennedy, Molly, Vi, Chloe, Rhona

Xander demon magnet: 5(6?)
Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot:
Giles: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 4
Riley; 1
Buffy; 1
Tara; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost:
Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes?
Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 2 possible, Dracula+RJ(?)
Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?)
Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca
Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley
Xander: 2; Faith, Anya
Willow: 2;Oz and Tara
Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vamp****e
Spike; 2 Buffy and Anya
Anya; 2 Spike and Xander
Dawn in peril; 14
Dawn the bashful virgin; 9
What the fanficcers thought;
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3065698/1/Who_shall_hear_my_children_when_they_cry
Questions and observations;
Vi refers to Faith. The game 'Six degrees of Kevin Bacon' is mentioned (simple, Kevin was in Will and Grace as was Seth Green). Bojoxers eye is very reminiscent of Big Trouble in Little China. If the bringers are human why doesn't Xander just get Anya's gun and shoot them? Kennedy says she's been training since she was 8? Buffy tells Rhona 'Welcome to the Hellmouth'! The Coven is still there so Giles and co still have allies around the world. Holy Water works on Turok-Han even though they must surely predate Christianity? Mad Max 3 quoted although I never thought it was that successful in the US (and again, a reference for scriptwriters in their 30s rather than a 23 year old?). Buffy wins because she has the human traits of strategy and weapons and is fighting for the people she loves. If the First needs to release more Turok-Han why doesn't it just bleed the Bringers?
Marks out of 10; 9/10

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

APOCALYPSE NOWISH

Spoiler

The Good;
Hold on tight, we're going on a rollercoaster!
The Bad;
?
Best line:
Lorne; "CLOSE THE DOOR!"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche; the gang royally get their collective ass kicked by the Beast
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12

Cheap Angel; 5
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 12
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 4
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out: Angel, Wes and Lorne all knocked out
Cordy: 12
Angel: 16
Wes: 6
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 7
Groo; 1
Kills:
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 41 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 12 demons.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamp+ 1 demon
Connor; 8 vamps and 2 demon
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 9
Fred; 1

Characters killed: I figure about 50 dead at the nightclub?
96
Recurring characters killed;
8;
Total number of Angel Investigations: 5 Wes for all intentions back in the fold
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1
Packing heat; Wes goes all John Woo with a pair of 45s and a pump action shotgun. Maybe he should call Buffy and borrow her rocket launcher?
Wes; 6
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Actually no kinky dinky for Fred and Gunn since supersymmetry. Schoolgirl Lilah, RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! "Keep them on", bet that's the first time he's ever said that to her! Lilah as Fred wishes that one day she'll have hips. To judge by 'Spin the Bottle' I'd say she'd prefer bigger breasts. CC and Connor also get it on. A lot of people dislike this as they think it's tantamount to incest but frankly I'm ok with it as long as they're not blood relations (fine with a girl wanting a daddy figure as long as it's not actually her daddy). Remember Connor doesn't remember CC acting as his mother and to her she's the closest thing she'll ever get to Angel (just as Spike hangs out with Joyce and Dawn because they're the closest thing he can get to Buffy) When told that snakes emerged from a part of someone's body Lorne wonders if it was just some form of sex game? When Wes suggests 'pooling resources' Gunn tells him to 'Go pool himself'.
Captain Subtext;
Gunn shows an unusual interest in bathroom fittings for such a macho character.
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
6,
Guantanamo Bay;
Angel tortures Gavin but you figure not as much as Lilah's going to.
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
Questions and observations;
Really like the way it's Gunn that figures out the symbol although it looks a bit like the cross of St Patrick to me (the red diagnols on the Union Jack). Can anyone tell me at exactly what point CC goes evil, it's never clear to me? Gunn's fear of rats reoccurs, living in abandoned buildings for so long must have been very tough for him. Really this is the end of the road for Cangel. Angel asks Wes if he's 'in' much as Doyle asks Angel if he's 'game'. Goodbye to Gunn's hubcap axe.
Marks out of 10; 9/10 some really good stuff here

HABEAS CORPSES

Spoiler

The Good;
Angel and co play Saving Private Connor during the fall of WR&H
The Bad;
Angel seems very out of character with his jealousy for CC and Connor but I guess love makes you do the wacky?
Best line:
Angel ; "Now take your new boyfriend and get out!"
just beating Gunn's "Thanks for the newsflash Captain Obvious!"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
The Beast slaughtering EVERYONE at WR&H!
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cheap Angel; 5
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 12
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 4
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 12
Angel: 15
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 4
Groo; 1
Kills: I figure everyone nails about 5 zombies each?
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 41 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 12 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamp+ 1 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 8 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 4
Angel: 10
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1

Characters killed: about 200 at WR&H, evil sure but still
250
Recurring characters killed; byebye Gavin but he's evil so screw him
8;
Total number of Angel Investigations: 5
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1
Packing heat;
Wes; 7
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Captain Subtext;
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
6,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
What the fanficcers thought; Read a nice one where Lilah goes to drown her sorrows in a bar after breaking up with Wes and runs into Kate who is leaving LA that night. They get drunk together and end up hooking up
Questions and observations;
The shortest teaser ever, Angel basically storms off the roof lashing out at everything on the way down. Wes and Lilah break up and never get back together. Lilah actually shows some pity for Gavin describing him as 'Poor bastard'. Lorne and Gunn's idea that maybe Connor isn't linked to the beast and it's just the mystical hotspot behind Caritas is actually pretty sound, rare that anyone tries to 'Scully' Angel (well maybe Sheryl Crow?). Are the zombies actually a satire of corporate life? Angel says he has a photographic memory as we suspected. Why doesn't Lilah try to put a round in the Beast's eye? Love Lorne's little look at his drink when the AI appear back in the Hyperion foyer.
Marks out of 10; 7/10

 

[Great Mind(s)]

BTW greatest tv shows ever

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Exactly.

Plenty of people, girls included, have casual sex at college and don't look back in the morning. But they are usually one night stands at a party when you've had a few too many tequila's.

Parker was horrible. He faked all this deep emotional stuff, acted all wounded and intense, played the role of a guy who was looking for a connection... But none of it was true.

And even the way he explained it to Willow was all fake and deep like some kind of philosophical revelation... Which was also fake.

We finally got to see the real Parker in the following episode when he said the difference between a freshman girl and a toilet seat is that a toilet seat doesn't follow you around after you use it.

That's who he was. And he'd been praying on the slightly naïve nature of girls in a new environment looking for some stability.

He LOVED the game of it. The wind up. The fact he made them fall in love with him first (which probably made the sex a lot better and empowering for him).

Sick sick sicko.

Sorry that rant was a bit much wasn't it

I've never done anything like that myself, so don't know what that is all about, I recall talking to a woman I liked about my dad dying, but she was the one who brought it up, lol. Sure, maybe the thought crossed my mind that I might get a sympathy date or something, lol, but I sure as hell didn't dwell on it. And, I might add, I've never thought of or spoken of women that way either.
But, the ironic thing is, that women was my 'Parker', and funnily enough, she would bang on about her dad dying quite a lot, and one guy did accuse her of trying to get sympathy and attention from people from it.

But, this can happen to guys too, getting led on and humiliated, as this woman did to me, she knew I liked her, and she did like me in that way, she just didn't want to go out with me, but she sure as hell did not want anyone else going out with me either, lol.
Whenever we would be in a gathering at the pub or at a party, and another woman would come onto me, she would growl at me until I brushed them off and then she would let me cuddle her on the couch, and/or give me her number to phone her up for a date.
But...y'know, she just wanted me to give her all my attention cause of her ego, she would bs me about going on a date, tell me she phoned me when she didn't etc.
and then, the next time I saw her she would have a guy in tow and would sit with her friends having a real good laugh at me, as I was the naive fool, just like Buffy.
Man, I brushed off at least two women I knew who were genuinely interested in me, really nice, attractive, smart women, as I naively thought I had a chance with that Parkeress, lol.

Anyway, I thought it was time for a little male perspective on that kind of thing. You don't have to sleep with someone in order to lead them on, hurt and humiliate them.

I have spoken about this Parker episode before, but there is one insight I didn't click to before.
He knows he is a really good looking guy, and I guess he could have built up a resentment to women because of that, that type, whenever he'll get a pang of guilt about leading her on, he'll think 'Well, y'know, if I was ugly and had spun that sob story, she wouldn't have slept with me, so who cares, she just wanted to sleep with me cause I am good looking.'

But, that is a bunch of bs as well. Every single person on Earth, if they are attracted to a good looking person, have genuine feelings for them, are going to be pleased that they are good looking, no exceptions. I don't think being a good looker is as much of a cross to bear as being ugly or whatever, and if you think it is, you *must* be very good looking, lol, so shut the **** up, I'm telling you that on behalf of the ugly people of the world, get a grip.

Because there are types like that, and it can spin off out of control into misoginy, or the female equivalent(don't know if there is a word for that, if there isn't dictionaries are sexist), a hatred for men in general, because they resent the fact that men find them good looking, so they think 'They only like me cause I am good looking, so **** em, they are pigs.' But, y'know, maybe the guy genuinely likes you, he can't help the fact he likes the fact you are good looking. So, the woman can build up such a hatred of men that she ends up alone, thinking in essence she is too good for them, and all men are shallow and stupid. When of course they are not.

 

[Iron Man]

I'm not sure how much I liked "I Will Remember You". It was entertaining and had some great action scenes, but the ending has me mixed. While I really like the idea of only Angel remembering their day together, I'm not sure whether it went a little over the top in terms of making sure that the viewer knows that Buffy and Angel can't be happy together. I actually think it would have been more tragic, in a way, if they both remembered. Good episode, but the themes just felt a little repetitive.

Does Buffy appear in many Angel episodes after this one?

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

I'm not sure how much I liked "I Will Remember You". It was entertaining and had some great action scenes, but the ending has me mixed. While I really like the idea of only Angel remembering their day together, I'm not sure whether it went a little over the top in terms of making sure that the viewer knows that Buffy and Angel can't be happy together. I actually think it would have been more tragic, in a way, if they both remembered. Good episode, but the themes just felt a little repetitive.

Does Buffy appear in many Angel episodes after this one?

The only eps of Angel Buffy appears in are that one and 'Sanctuary', I don't recall what order they are in, both s1.
Angel does appear in a couple of eps of Buffy in s4, s5(one brief appearance iirc) and in s7 though.
Another member of the Scooby gang appears in Angel s4, and another in s5.

 

[The Question]

I think the idea was that it was too dangerous for anyone to possess ('My preciousssss'), that there would be an endless stream of Spike's, Draculas and Darlas coming to claim it for themselves and placing Doyle and Cordy in danger. Also I think Angel always feared if he turned back into Angelus it would make him practically invincible.

But they never said that.

It kinda was a contrivance but I also think it was a facet of Angel's redemption, that he was destined to stay in the dark until he had earned his time in the light and the ring wasn't it. Besides, as Doyle says the entire world is set up for those who live in the light, it's those in the dark Angel is out to help.

But that only makes sense metaphorically. In a practical sense, there are (and have been in the show) plenty of situations where Angel's inability to go outside during the day has seriously hindered his ability to help other people.

As for Doublemeat Palace it has it's good points, Anya and Halfyrek, Amy and Willow, some funny humour, Xander telling Dawn she could be the successful one in her career and support Buffy in life (which is kinda what happens in the comics) etc but above all it's just depressing, even Buffy and Spike's quickie against the dumpster is stunningly unerotic. I think if it had been Xander working there it would have been a comedy classic but we don't like to see Buffy doing it.

I don't really understand that. Some of the most powerful moment's in the series are when Buffy is at her lowest point. It's just that, in this case, it wasn't anything glamorous like the deal with Angel in season 2. It was just her life hitting rock bottom. I thought it made for an interesting story.

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

BTW greatest tv shows ever

You're so right!

I think Parker isn't an out and out villain, if we knew he was lying about any of it or if he'd been disparaging about Buffy before she hit him with the branch then it would be different. To be fair to him he does go to help Willow when the cavemen burst in so he's not all bad. Considering the torment Buffy's other boyfriends put her through he's practically a catch

I think maybe the disasterous hookup at university is something that happens to a lot of people and maybe that's why Joss included it on the show?

POTENTIAL

Spoiler

The Good;
Amanda, by far my favourite Potential, love her to bits, the way she talks is rather reminiscent of Dana Scully from the X-files. She comes just ahead of Vi who is also great (so nice to have Felicia on Dollhouse), they both remind of season 1 Willow. Great stuff from Dawn too, fun training scenes and the final scene with Xander is too wonderful for words.
The Bad;
How can Spike attack the Potentials? What about his chip? Equally he can kill the Bringers, are they not wholly human?
Best line;
Xander; (to Dawn) "You're not special. You're extraordinary" (how true!)
Women good/men bad;
Andrew refers back to the female legacy of Eve. Actually we'll soon see where the real legacy of the Slayer began and it's not too empowering for the girls in question.
Jeez!;
Amanda wants to unleash the vamp on the marching band?
Kinky dinky;
During the training session Buffy ends up straddling Spike and feeling him up beneath his shirt. The Potentials comment that 'That's hot' and ask if they're expected to make out with the vampires? They also wonder how Buffy knows that Spike's crypt is comfy and seem to be peeking at Xander whilst he's in the shower at the Summer's house. What a load of saucy minxes! Amanda thinks that a guy who picks on her is quite cute. A sadomasochistic fondness for bad boys who make her miserable? All the makings of a Slayer RIGHT THERE! She just needs to get tied up and knocked out a few times. Buffy obviously thinks the same as she draws a comparison between Amanda and her tormentor and her and Spike. Rhona says she likes the feel of wood in her hand (Joss gives 15 year old girls this kind of dialogue? Worse than Dawn's 'Meat party in my mouth' line). Andrew says he hate's his free will. Dawn may have injured 'something she'll need later in life' whilst climbing into the school. She considers Xander's army training sexy and get's a kiss from him at the end (awwwww!).
Captain Subtext;
The obvious subtext here is that Dawn finally has a house full of girls of her age but they're all special because they're Potentials and she's not, Buffy is spending all her time with them and giving them her attention and she's excluded even though she's already killed a vampire and a demon. So close but so far. Dawn admires a girl in her gym class as a 'glamazon', interesting phrasing! She also considers being a sailor as she likes the water, well you know what all the nice girls like? Vi says the demon bar is like a gay bar, has she been to many? Clem once again resembles Buffy's gay best friend whilst Xander is referred to as the one who sees which will have greater significance later in the season. Buffy and Spike getting closer and closer.
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy and Spike lock the girls into a crypt with a vamp, awfully like the Cruciantenam? But 5 to one with weapons and Spike and her waiting just outside
Scoobies to the ER;
Missing scenes;
Apocalypses; 7,
Wheldon Cliches (with kind permission from Boo)

Scoobies in bondage:
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 5
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 4
Oz: 1
Faith: 3
Joyce: 1
Wes: 1
Xander; 2
Dawn; 4
Spike; 2

Scoobies knocked out:
Buffy: 20
Giles: 12
Cordy: 6
Xander: 15
Will: 9
Jenny: 2
Angel: 6
Oz: 3
Faith: 1
Joyce: 3
Wes: 1
Anya;7
Dawn; 4
Tara; 1
Spike; 1
Kills: Spike kills a Bringer as does Buffy. 1 vamp for Amanda and 1 vamp for Kennedy (although that's more of a group effort)
Buffy: 118 vamps, 60 demons, 6 monsters, 10 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot
Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demon, 1 human/1 god.
Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn+1 human.
Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie
Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans
Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1½ a demon, 2 humans
Anya: 1 vamp and 1½ a demon
Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons
Spike; 9 vamps and 6 demons+1 human
Buffybot; 2 vamps
Tara; 1 demon
Dawn; 1 vamp + 1 demon
Kennedy; 1 human+1 vampire
Amanda; 1 vampire

Scoobies go evil:
Giles: 1
Cordy: 1
Will: 3
Jenny: 1
Angel: 1
Oz: 1
Joyce: 1
Xander: 4
Anya; 1
Dawn; 1
Buffy; 1
Spike; 1

Alternate scoobies:
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 1
Will: 5
Jenny: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 2
Joyce: 2
Xander: 4
Tara; 1
Dawn;1
Spike; 1
Anya; 2

Recurring characters killed: 13
Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce, Katrina, Tara, Quentin Travers.

Sunnydale deaths;
103

Total number of scoobies: Add Amanda so 13. HOWEVER where is Chloe this week? (doesn't look good for her) Or Molly?
Xander, Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Anya, Spike, Giles, Kennedy, Molly, Vi, Chloe, Rhona, Amanda

Xander demon magnet: 5(6?)
Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot:
Giles: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 4
Riley; 1
Buffy; 1
Tara; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost:
Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes?
Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 2 possible, Dracula+RJ(?)
Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?)
Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca
Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley
Xander: 2; Faith, Anya
Willow: 2;Oz and Tara
Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vamp****e
Spike; 2 Buffy and Anya
Anya; 2 Spike and Xander
Dawn in peril; 14
Dawn the bashful virgin; 9
What the fanficcers thought;
No shortage of Dawn the Vampire Slayer fics out there. Also Dawn and Amanda are a pretty popular slashfic couple. http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3019594/1/The_Circle
Questions and observations;
Bloody long teaser, almost a mini-ep in itself. Rhona comments that the 'black chick always gets it first'. Actually one of the points of the Scream series was that black people were very seldom the victims (possibly because most slasher flicks are set in small, middle-class rural towns with an overwhelmingly white population). Buffy once again shows her mettle as a general, her training of the Potentials is masterful. She makes first reference to the big dessert at the end of the meal, believing in heaven and telling the Potentials to expect their big reward, very Christian. Dawn warns the Potentials to be careful with their crossbows hinting at Miss Kitty's fate. Love Dawn's little smile when Amanda says that people say Buffy is a high-functioning schizophrenic, again the Slayer an open secret. Dawn seems very innovative fighting the vamp and the Bringers, she's a regular MacGyver. Dawn seems to remember Oz and gives another little smile when Xander mentions him. Adore Amanda, Sarah Hagan is wonderful (was so proud of myself when I spotted her as one of Ally McBeals childhood friends in a flashback). You should check her out on IMDB, she's really blossomed, looks like Katy Perry now.

Marks out of 10; controversial I'm sure but I love Amanda, I love Dawn, I love the final scene and I love this ep so 10/10 from me.

THE KILLER IN ME

Spoiler

Oh my god, this is ep 135, we're into single figures left!
The Good;
Always lovely to see Amy again, sadly her last appearance although she's back in the comics. Nice subplot with 'Is Giles the First?' and some creepy stuff in the old Initiative, very Halloween (the movie not the ep).
The Bad;
I find the whole Willow/Kennedy storyline not that involving frankly and I'm normally a Willow fan. Rather ruins the suprise reveal of Amy when EAA's name is in the titles.
Best line;
Spike; "Who you gonna call? You know that's never going to be usable again, is it?" (tell that to the 118 118 boys!)
but also like;
Initiative officer (of Spike) "We're here to help ass-face (noting Buffy's look) Those were agent Finn's exact words"
Women good/men bad;
Pretty much all the Warren stuff
Jeez!;
Will slapping Amy is shocking
Kinky dinky;
When Buffy tries to tell the Initiative that Spike's 'chip' is malfunctioning they seem to think she's referring to something else. Andrew grabs Will's breasts and he and Dawn take the opportunity to feel up Willow/Warren and all the Scoobs grope Giles in the final scene. Giles is affronted that the Scoobes think he's evil because he'd take a group of nubile teenage girls on a camping trip and NOT touch them. Xander appears to wear Aquaman underwear, how does Willow know this? Amy's top is very revealing, I never appreciated how hot she was until this ep.
Captain Subtext;
One big lesbian seduction of Willow by Kennedy. Kennedy says that Willow is sexy when she pouts, quite true. Kennedy presumes Willow is gay but Will never actually says so. She asks how long has she enjoyed sex with women (well doesn't EVERYONE?). Interestingly Will says she didn't fall in love with WOMEN but with one WOMAN. Will's mum hardly met Tara. Kennedy says she was first attracted to women when she was five (!) after watching Rhett sweep Scarlett up the staircase in Gone with the Wind. This scene is widely considered to be marital rape but then as a potential Slayer Kennedy has that dark sexual side we see in Faith and Buffy and in 'Get it done' we find out why. Note that Kennedy wishes to play the Rhett role who's the sexual aggressor just as Kennedy is courting Willow. Kennedy tells Willow she doesn't worry about her "Being too butch". More signs of Andrew and Xander bonding, love Anya and Dawn's little look at him. Dawn and Anya snuggle under a blanket.
So, does Amy actually have a gay crush on Willow and is this all the result of jealousy? Certainly Amy at the end seems to be coming on to Kennedy, saying "You must be good" after the revelation about the kiss. Kennedy thinks Willow's freckles are 'lickable'.
Guantanamo Bay;
The Initiative's new front is a flower shop, what is it with Buffy and florists?
Scoobies to the ER;
Missing scenes;
Presumably around this time Dawn recieves her phonecall from Angelus but we never see it. Also the Scoobies never seem to notice the eternal darkness in LA or Jasmine but then they have their own worries.
Apocalypses; 7,
Wheldon Cliches (with kind permission from Boo)

Scoobies in bondage: Spike continues to keep himself chained up
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 5
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 4
Oz: 1
Faith: 3
Joyce: 1
Wes: 1
Xander; 2
Dawn; 4
Spike; 3

Scoobies knocked out:
Buffy: 20
Giles: 12
Cordy: 6
Xander: 15
Will: 9
Jenny: 2
Angel: 6
Oz: 3
Faith: 1
Joyce: 3
Wes: 1
Anya;7
Dawn; 4
Tara; 1
Spike; 1
Kills: one demon for Buffy
Buffy: 118 vamps, 61 demons, 6 monsters, 10 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot
Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demon, 1 human/1 god.
Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn+1 human.
Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie
Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans
Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1½ a demon, 2 humans
Anya: 1 vamp and 1½ a demon
Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons
Spike; 9 vamps and 6 demons+1 human
Buffybot; 2 vamps
Tara; 1 demon
Dawn; 1 vamp + 1 demon
Kennedy; 1 human+1 vampire
Amanda; 1 vampire

Scoobies go evil: Willow, big time
Giles: 1
Cordy: 1
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 1
Oz: 1
Joyce: 1
Xander: 4
Anya; 1
Dawn; 1
Buffy; 1
Spike; 1

Alternate scoobies: Willow as Warren
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 1
Will: 6
Jenny: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 2
Joyce: 2
Xander: 4
Tara; 1
Dawn;1
Spike; 1
Anya; 2

Recurring characters killed: 13
Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce, Katrina, Tara, Quentin Travers.

Sunnydale deaths;
103

Total number of scoobies:
Xander, Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Anya, Spike, Giles, Kennedy, Molly, Vi, Chloe, Rhona, Amanda

Xander demon magnet: 5(6?)
Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot:
Giles: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 4
Riley; 1
Buffy; 1
Tara; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost:
Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes?
Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 2 possible, Dracula+RJ(?)
Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?)
Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca
Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley
Xander: 2; Faith, Anya
Willow: 2;Oz and Tara
Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vamp****e
Spike; 2 Buffy and Anya
Anya; 2 Spike and Xander
Dawn in peril; 14
Dawn the bashful virgin; 9
What the fanficcers thought;
Read an interesting one where Willow's guilt manifest's itself differently, she's visited by Warren every night and he cuts skin from her body. In the end she forgives him and then forgives herself, making him disappear and only dreaming of Tara from then on. Another good one has Willow confronting Amy and we find out that this is all due to an unrequited gay crush from Amy for Willow. Amy tries to stab Will with her Bringer dagger and Xander shoots Amy with the gun Willow-as-Warren bought. She collapses and dies in the arms of a tearful Willow. PM for the link

Questions and observations;
Weird to see flashbacks all the way back to season 4, seems a world away. SMG seems rather hoarse in the first scene. The series seems to be running out of money to judge by the commentary, all that CGI expensive. It strikes me that Spike has moved into the basement just as Xander moves out. Robson the Watcher has survived, the Watcher's Council is not entirely gone and can help Buffy and co in season 8. Shouldn't Xander pack some weapons when he heads off to the desert?
So is Amy working with the First (she uses it's catchphrase, 'It's about power')? But when she talks to Kennedy she seems to not even to be evil, that this is petty jealousy of Willow. OR maybe she's bitter at Willow having killed Rack and left Amy to have painful rehab on her own?
Is the leader of the Initiative team the same guy from the series The Unit? What a shame they couldn't have got Graham back. In the end where we see Warren weeping and saying "I'm sorry baby" is he actually grieving for Katrina?

Marks out of 10; 6/10, not my favourite

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

I'm not sure how much I liked "I Will Remember You". It was entertaining and had some great action scenes, but the ending has me mixed. While I really like the idea of only Angel remembering their day together, I'm not sure whether it went a little over the top in terms of making sure that the viewer knows that Buffy and Angel can't be happy together. I actually think it would have been more tragic, in a way, if they both remembered. Good episode, but the themes just felt a little repetitive.

Does Buffy appear in many Angel episodes after this one?

Only once more sadly but plenty of other Sunnydale folks showing up and Angel returns to SD a few more times. IWRY is Bangeler heaven really and much like the ring it makes life just that bit too easy for Angel if he were to choose this, he doesn't say it so much but it's implied, he wouldn't feel he had earnt his redemption. Your right that it seems a little repeitive (no joke intended) but then that's why they gave Angel his own series, there wasn't really much else they could do with him and Buffy in Sunnydale

LONG DAYS JOURNEY

Spoiler

The Good;
Gwen, hooray! Also like Lorne mocking Angel's brooding.
The Bad;
You can visibly see that CC is preggers. Why not stick Manny on the first plane to Outer Mongolia?
Best line:
Gwen; "Where were you when they taught stealth in superpower school?"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
Gwen's attitude of 'get the hell out of dodge' is very atypical but frankly sensible.
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cheap Angel; 6
Angel can't resist telling CC that the item he gave up for her cost $30million.
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 12
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 4
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out: CC and Angel get slipped a mickey (or does she?)
Cordy: 13
Angel: 16
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 4
Groo; 1
Kills:
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 41 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 12 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamp+ 1 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 8 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 4
Angel: 10
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1

Characters killed:
250
Recurring characters killed;
8;
Total number of Angel Investigations: 5
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1
Packing heat;
Wes; 7
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Manny intends to spend his final hours in a strip club called the Pink Pony. Gwen is still the queen of PVC (Spandexia)and it has the desired effect of making CC jealous when Angel takes her on their road trip. CC refers to Gwen as 'Supertramp', maybe she should have 'Breakfast in America'?
Captain Subtext;
Gwen calls Fred 'cherry'. Lorne says evil demon's can't pull off wearing lam'e like his as it just looks 'camp'. Manny asks Gwen if she'd like him to buy her a lapdance and she doesn't seem too offended. Gwen and Gunn start bonding on sentry duty and she refers to him as Denzel again which is quite a compliment.
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
6,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
Questions and observations;
Unless Fred and Gunn filled them in Wes and Lorne have never met Gwen but they seem unphased by her arrival. Connor get the living daylights beaten out of him by the Beast. Love the fact that the Beast knocks politley before smashing it's way and trashing the place AND Connor. The manner in which it's suggested Angel/Connor is being controlled by the Beast is similar to The First and Spike on Buffy. This ep sadly dedicated to Glenn Quinn.
Marks out of 10; 7/10

AWAKENING

Spoiler

The Good;
Love Wes beating up the shamen's guard, he's really come a long way from the fop we first met in Buffy season 3. CC's little talk with Angel is excellent, manipulating him shamelessly.
The Bad;
It seems a bit silly all the hassle they go to in order to take Angel's soul away. Either give him some of the drug from 'Eternity' or invite Buffy down for a one night stand. Why not just destroy the wooden swords or cut the belts and bells?
Best line:
Angel; "Wood, why does did it have to be wood?"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Spike through Wes' hand anyone? Stabbing the Beast up through the chin also isn't nice but you'd do it if you had to.
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
Connor more than willing to kill his father.
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cheap Angel; 6
Fang Gang in bondage: Angel tied to the table
Cordy: 5
Angel: 13
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 4
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 13
Angel: 16
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 4
Groo; 1
Kills:
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 41 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 12 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamp+ 1 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 8 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 4
Angel: 10
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1

Characters killed:
250
Recurring characters killed;
8;
Total number of Angel Investigations: Cordy back in
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes, CC

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1
Packing heat;
Wes; 7
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: this ep is a Cangelers delight but alas it was never to be.
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Fred a bit bashful over shining the torch over the Shamen's body. CC refers to the belts and bells as an S&M bondage party, has she been to many? CC tells her breasts that she knew they'd get her in trouble one day. But in fairness they've done a great deal for her over the years.
Captain Subtext;
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
6,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
Questions and observations;
Gwen has skipped town and I don't blame her. Kolchak the Nightstalker referred to (the inspiration for the X-files).
I'm afraid here we have the definitive end of Cangel. When Angel lost his soul in Suprise everything was going to hell and Buffy alone was all it took to give him the happy. In this it takes a number of factors, killing the Beast, bringing the sun back, Wes back in the fold, Connor losing his resentment AND sex with CC. What's more watch it with the subtitles on. As Angel, ahem, has his pleasure moment, he says 'Buffy'. Sorry CC he wasn't thinking of you. What exactly is Jasmine's plan? Why does she want to turn day into night?
Marks out of 10; 8/10

 

[Nemi]

Yeah, it was Angel destroying the ring. Even if you take him not deserving it as a valid argument, the fact is that that is superceded by the fact that it would make him significantly more effective at helping people and saving lives. Like, I watched all of Angel with a friend of mine, and every time there was a complication due to sunlight or crosses after that, for about a season and a half, we just yelled "Well you're the one who DESTROYED THE DAMN RING" at the screen. They could have gotten rid of the ring some other way, like Angel fighting Spike and the fight being fairly evenly matched and Angel destroying the ring to make sure he doesn't get it.

How hard did you yell at your screen [BLACKOUT]when Cordelia was telling him that he couldn't even take his son to the hospital if it was daytime? [/BLACKOUT]

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

How hard did you yell at your screen [BLACKOUT]when Cordelia was telling him that he couldn't even take his son to the hospital if it was daytime? [/BLACKOUT]

Excellent point but then again Angel the vampire could hardly ever have expected

Spoiler

to have a child?

 

[Nemi]

Excellent point but then again Angel the vampire could hardly ever have expected

Spoiler

to have a child?

Spoiler

Oh yeah of course. Half the men on this planet are still suprised when that **** happens to them even though they've been told a thousand times that it will if they don't wrap it up. So I can understand Angel thinking it wouldn't happen to him since he's dead and all that other fun vampire stuff. I was going less for a valid point and more of a ''I have shared your frustration''.

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

Not just guys, takes 2 to tango

Spoiler

(and the various other things Angel and Darla got up to)

FIRST DATE

Spoiler

The Good;
So we finally find out Wood's secret! Some nice comedy stuff with Xander and Danny Strong suprisingly creepy as Jonathon/The First. It's amazing how funny Chao Anh can be with just such a simple old gag.
The Bad;
Buffy really should take more care with her cellphone. Who opens a French resteraunt down a creepy dark alleyway? Note Woods doesn't lock his door after Buffy leaves whilst he's putting away his knife. Honestly if you were Xander on your first date with Lissa would you ever dream of telling the story of leaving your bride at the altar? Not exactly something that makes a girl think 'Boy this one's a keeper!' (although considering the attraction to bad boys in this series maybe it would impress her?)
Best line;
Buffy; (of Xander's date) "Good thing you're not jealous!"
Anya; "Are you nuts? Can't you hear my bitter ranting? The shrill edge of hysteria in my voice? Little hardware store ****e!"
Women good/men bad;
Anya considers Xander's date a **** and ****e despite never having met her.
Jeez!;
Decaying Jonathon (love Amanda's little squeal). Bleeding Xander isn't nice either.
Kinky dinky;
Needless to say Ashanti is GORGEOUS especially when she puts on her sacrificial gear and into bondage fun. The bleeding bit not so much fun nor is her demon form. Half naked Xander, NB slimmed down a lot since season 6. Andrew admires the contents of Buffy's underwear drawer 'Nice things' and notes she has thongs amongst her intimates (as we saw before in Shadow) Interested in her wearing them or him? We also see Buffy in her sexy camisole top. Andrew considers Dawn 'A peach'. Buffy considers Wood's French pear desert 'The best thing I've ever had in my mouth', a line which would make the Carry On team blush! (and she says it in front of Spike!).
Captain Subtext;
Xander; "Willow, gay me up!" imagining Scott Bakula in his underwear which Andrew also appreciates. Buffy worries that this would just attract male demons, Dawn mentions that Clem always liked Xander further portraying him as Buffy's gay friend. Willow considers Buffy a 'frisky vixen'. Buffy's description of Woods is very reminiscent of Riley which hardly bodes well for him as a potential lover. Buffy wonders why she's so attracted to 'wicked energy', in the next ep we find out why. Interestingly when Willow asks about Spike Buffy says 'Why does everyone still think I'm in love with Spike?'. Her use of the term 'love' is unprecedented. Buffy is attracted to Woods, another older man for her, older than Riley although still much younger than Spike and Angel (Hank leaving really screwed her up even before all the Slayer dark energy lust kicked in, one wonder's if Dawn will be the same?) And of course Woods whose mother was a Slayer who died when he was four, breaking his heart now finds himself dating one. He comments that he 'Doesn't know how that happened' but I think it doesn't need Freud to guess? Kennedy and Willow now make out and hold hands under the table although she tries to hide it.
Guantanamo Bay;
Andrew wears a wire
Scoobies to the ER;
Missing scenes;
Apocalypses; 7,
Wheldon Cliches (with kind permission from Boo)

Scoobies in bondage: Xander big time! Lissa into recreational bondage (or she mistakes him for a kayak?)
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 5
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 4
Oz: 1
Faith: 3
Joyce: 1
Wes: 1
Xander; 3
Dawn; 4
Spike; 3

Scoobies knocked out: Xander passes out, Giles is the one notorious for it but he's far ahead.
Buffy: 20
Giles: 12
Cordy: 6
Xander: 16
Will: 9
Jenny: 2
Angel: 6
Oz: 3
Faith: 1
Joyce: 3
Wes: 1
Anya;7
Dawn; 4
Tara; 1
Spike; 1
Kills: 1 Bringer for Giles, 3 vamps for Buffy plus Lissa giving her her 200th kill! 2 vamps for Woods plus he says he's killed 'A few vamps and some demons' previously so we'll give him 3 more vamps and 2 demons at least.
Buffy: 121 vamps, 62 demons, 6 monsters, 10 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot
Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demons, 2 humans/1 god.
Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn+1 human.
Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie
Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans
Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1½ a demon, 2 humans
Anya: 1 vamp and 1½ a demon
Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons
Spike; 9 vamps and 6 demons+1 human
Buffybot; 2 vamps
Tara; 1 demon
Dawn; 1 vamp + 1 demon
Kennedy; 1 human+1 vampire
Amanda; 1 vampire
Woods; 5 vamps and 2 demons

Scoobies go evil:
Giles: 1
Cordy: 1
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 1
Oz: 1
Joyce: 1
Xander: 4
Anya; 1
Dawn; 1
Buffy; 1
Spike; 1

Alternate scoobies:
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 1
Will: 6
Jenny: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 2
Joyce: 2
Xander: 4
Tara; 1
Dawn;1
Spike; 1
Anya; 2

Recurring characters killed: 13
Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce, Katrina, Tara, Quentin Travers.

Sunnydale deaths;
103

Total number of scoobies: 15-Chao Anh and Woods join the group. Andrew really picks his side here and starts taking a major step to becoming a proper Scooby.
Xander, Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Anya, Spike, Giles, Kennedy, Molly, Vi, Chloe, Rhona, Amanda, Chao-Anh, Woods

Xander demon magnet: 6(7?) yet another demon digs Xander
Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya, Lissa (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot:
Giles: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 4
Riley; 1
Buffy; 1
Tara; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost: does Xander get anywhere with Lissa before she ties him up? (or afterwards?)
Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes?
Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 2 possible, Dracula+RJ(?)
Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?)
Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca
Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley
Xander: 2; Faith, Anya
Willow: 2;Oz and Tara
Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vamp****e
Spike; 2 Buffy and Anya
Anya; 2 Spike and Xander
Dawn in peril; 14
Dawn the bashful virgin; 9
What the fanficcers thought;
Once read a HORRIBLE fic where Giles really was killed by the Bringer and season 7 Giles is Ethan Rayne in a glamour spell. By the end of the fic Buffy has been tricked into killing Spike, Woods tricked into raping Buffy who then kills him and Buffy slits her wrists in the bathtub in despair. Thankfully in the follow-up story the Scoobs save Buffy using a blood transfusion from Dawn and her love for her friends and family give her the will to live. After sharing the Slayer power with the Potentials she obliterates the Hellmouth with a nuke borrowed from Riley&co, Ethan Rayne reforming to become her new Watcher and Amanda and Anya surviving the final battle. Meanwhile in season 5 Angel Harmony misses her blondie bear and gets her hands on the spell WR&H used to bring back Darla....
Questions and observations;
Note in the scene where Giles' is leading the girls through the graveyard one of the tombs reads 'Snyder'. Only a limited number of Potentials each ep as they can't afford more. Buffy says she believes in Spike. The First knows about the gun implying that Amy was one of it's agents, otherwise how would it know? Of course the 'blood' on Buffy's blouse that Anya is trying to clean is actually the pizza sauce Dawn spilt on it in 'Conversations with Dead People'. People constantly mock Buffy's counselling skills, she seems to actually enjoy her job, something in her life that's NOT connected to slaying (Woods feels the same way saying he enjoys being the headmaster). Woods has no slayer powers, if he was a Slayer's daughter you wonder if that might be different. Buffy seems intrigued that Slayer's can have children, something she and Faith might now have the chance to do (certainly post-Chosen). Note Amanda still has her forehead scar from Potential. So anyone's blood can open the seal? Why doesn't the first just have it's Bringers kidnap random people? Why does The First want Woods to kill Spike, isn't he it's agent? Poor Woods, how heartrending for him to find his mother's killer after all this time. When Woods tells the First 'You didn't raise me at all' is he saying "You're the First so you didn't raise me' or is he mad at his mother for dying and leaving him alone? I always thought vamp limbs went to dust when they were removed from the body but here we see they don't (luckily for Spike in 'Damage')

Marks out of 10; 7/10

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

I was trying to think who Parker reminded me off and I now realise it's Barney from HIMYM. When we see him lying in order to bed the bimbo of the week and sometimes even getting Ted, Lily and Robin to help him in his deception (and don't think Marshall ever has? Maybe he's too Minnesota?). And yet Barney is a hero to millions (check out my posting name) and many people's favourite character on the show despite the fact that he's despicable. What's the difference?

Get it Done

Spoiler

The Good;
Buffy's trip to see the Shadowmen finally answers a lot of the questions we've had concerning the Slayer over the years. Plus bad boy Spike is finally back! The Shadowcasting scene is suprisingly creepy.
The Bad;
How convenient that in the ep where Buffy is going to be 'knocked up' by the Shadowmen's pet demon she just happens to wear a skirt for the first time in ages?
Best line;
Buffy; "Always the staff!"
Women good/men bad;
So, the first Slayer wasn't a volunteer after all? How ironic that the Slayer, the symbol of female empowerment is actually based on the subjugation of women, the Shadowmen chaining a young girl to the earth and forcing their will upon her for their higher purposes. If it was anyone but Joss you'd think this was misogynistic but here Buffy once more shows that the modern Slayer has overcome the need for patriarchal domination, she chooses to be the Slayer and will only work with them to save humanity, not under their control. Her breaking the staff could be construed as a phallic symbol? One thought that has been suggested to me before is that vamps are undead and are therefore a travesty of life. Women are the lifegivers so the Slayer's vamp sense is based upon that, that they are almost allergic to something that is against nature? Also possible that a female was selected to be the Slayer as their uterus makes them capable of accepting the demon just as they would a child.
Jeez!;
Chloe's death is beyond horrible
Kinky dinky;
How long have you got? Buffy refers to her being 'knocked up' and 'violated' which is normally CC's job. We discover why Buffy and Faith (and it's hinted a couple of the Potentials) have this dark and kinky sexual side to them, that the Slayer was created in a whirlwind of rape, bondage, impregnation, dark magic and female enslavement. We now know why Buffy and Faith have a thing for older men (the Shadowmen/Watchers) with (as Spike comments) 'a little demon in them' like Angel, Spike, the Mayor, Dracula, Wood (son of a Slayer), the Immortal. You wonder if Dawn will develop the same tastes, she share's Buffy's blood and she's already had a crush on Spike and Justin? I never bothered to count but I think this is the last time Buffy gets sexually assaulted in the series, off the top of my head that makes seven (Xander in The Pack, twice by Larry in Halloween, by Cam and then the entire mutated swimteam in Go Fish, by Spike in Seeing Red) If we don't count The Master and presuming her and Drac was consensual. Borders on Got-fic.
Anya still seems to have the hots for Spike but he's not interested.
Spike; "You're like a dog with a bone"
Anya; "Well a girl get's hungry!"
Spike; "It's MY bone!"
of course you could just suspect that she might be trying to make Xander jealous after his date with Lissa in last week's ep. Wood describes HIMSELF as cool and sexy and Buffy agrees adding he's a snappy dresser. Spike thinks the tension between him and Wood is jealousy over Buffy but he's mistaken.
Captain Subtext;
You could interpret that fact that Buffy is actually made stronger by the Shadowmen forcing themselves upon her as a metaphor for the power of female sexuality? Buffy mentions to Wood that Willow has been 'experimenting' a remark she seems to take exception to. When Spike tells Buffy about saving Anya from the demon he says he 'Beat him off' before thinking of a better phrasing.
Note the gentle, intimate gesture of the third Shadowman stroking his hand down Buffy's cheek even after their violent conquest of her that preceded it. What's more Buffy actually let's him do it, it's almost a fatherly moment of affection between them. (Her Slayer side born of the Shadowmen, her Buffy side born of Hank and Joyce?). Kennedy's rejection of Willow having seen her darkside is reminiscent of how CC rejects Angel in season 4 having seen the things he did as Angelus when she was a higher power. Interestingly having been rejected by her girlfriend Willow makes her way to Buffy's bed and suggests that Buffy use 'kisses' (and Twinkies) to motivate her and the others.
Guantanamo Bay;
The Shadowmen are supremely ruthless, the Watcher's Council haven't changed much in all that time. Buffy's almost callous treatment of Chloe shows her going the same way. How the Shadowmen then treat her wakes her up to how she's been behaving and makes her much more human from now on. She comments to the Shadowmen that by giving her more power they're making her 'less human'. All along The First has been saying it's not about right and wrong it's about power. But Buffy rejects the power for what is right, as Wood remarks she's 'redefining the role'.
Some people say that this is Buffy at her nastiest but I sympathise with her, when you see the scene with her walking around at the start guarding over the sleeping potentials she just looks so concerned and loving. She's mad at Chloe for leaving them in the lurch, she shouts at everyone else because they've got to bring their game up and indeed Spike, Willow and Anya do as a result of her harraunging. I'm actually mad with Dawn, Xander etc for letting poor Buffy have to bury Chloe alone. Kennedy is much more to blame than Buffy calling Chloe 'maggot' but she doesn't seem to give a damn. And she even shouts at Amanda when she gives her cute little wave to Woods.
More anti-French racism which was popular in the US at the time. Buffy of course is right, not all the girls will make it, tragic but true.
Scoobies to the ER;
Missing scenes;
Apocalypses; 7,
Wheldon Cliches (with kind permission from Boo)

Scoobies in bondage: Buffy in chains as she's ravished by the demon.
Buffy: 9
Giles: 4
Cordy: 5
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 4
Oz: 1
Faith: 3
Joyce: 1
Wes: 1
Xander; 3
Dawn; 4
Spike; 3

Scoobies knocked out: Buffy by the Shadowmen, Will and Spike by the demon, Dawn and Kennedy by Willow
Buffy: 21
Giles: 12
Cordy: 6
Xander: 16
Will: 10
Jenny: 2
Angel: 6
Oz: 3
Faith: 1
Joyce: 3
Wes: 1
Anya;7
Dawn; 5
Tara; 1
Spike; 2
Kennedy; 1
Kills: one demon for Spike, the big bad is back!
Buffy: 121 vamps, 62 demons, 6 monsters, 10 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot
Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demons, 2 humans/1 god.
Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn+1 human.
Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie
Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans
Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1½ a demon, 2 humans
Anya: 1 vamp and 1½ a demon
Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons
Spike; 9 vamps and 7 demons+1 human
Buffybot; 2 vamps
Tara; 1 demon
Dawn; 1 vamp + 1 demon
Kennedy; 1 human+1 vampire
Amanda; 1 vampire
Woods; 5 vamps and 2 demons

Scoobies go evil:
Giles: 1
Cordy: 1
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 1
Oz: 1
Joyce: 1
Xander: 4
Anya; 1
Dawn; 1
Buffy; 1
Spike; 1

Alternate scoobies:
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 1
Will: 6
Jenny: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 2
Joyce: 2
Xander: 4
Tara; 1
Dawn;1
Spike; 1
Anya; 2

Recurring characters killed: 14, poor Chloe
Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce, Katrina, Tara, Quentin Travers, Chloe.

Sunnydale deaths; poor Chloe
104

Total number of scoobies: 30- goodbye Chloe but there now seems to be about 16 potentials in total. Noticeably no Molly though.
Xander, Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Anya, Spike, Giles, Kennedy, Molly, Vi, Rhona, Amanda, Chao-Anh, Woods

Xander demon magnet: 6(7?)
Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya, Lissa (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot:
Giles: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 4
Riley; 1
Buffy; 1
Tara; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost: do we count Buffy and the Shadowmen's pet demon as sex? It's definitely metaphorical rape but is it actual? There's certainly plenty of penetration of her mouth and under both the front and back of her skirt (all bases covered?). She graphically shudders, writhes, groans, gasps, bucks and moans like an enthusiastic porn star faking it, screaming in pleasure/pain and all the time straining against her chains (as Anya puts it 'the pleasure moment/Shiver me timbers'?). Watching her almost feels voyeuristic, if this wasn't Joss you'd scream "Exploitation!". However this is Joss and the power this gives her allows her to break her chains, the First Slayer saying the Slayer derives power from pain, the whole 'women experience pain differently' concept coming to the fore again.
Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes?
Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 3 possible, Dracula+RJ+Shadowman's demon(?)
Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?)
Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca
Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley
Xander: 2; Faith, Anya
Willow: 2;Oz and Tara
Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vamp****e
Spike; 2 Buffy and Anya
Anya; 2 Spike and Xander
Dawn in peril; 14
Dawn the bashful virgin; 9
What the fanficcers thought;
A LOT of fic has Buffy being treated nastily by the Shadowmen etc as her comeuppance for treating her friends and family so nastily but as always, forgiveness is big in the Buffyverse and it all ends happily. One in particular where the Shadowmen keep Buffy as their slave but in the follow up we find she's been faking all along in order to give herself a mini-break from the responsibilities of Sunnydale. Another where she travels back through time Quantum Leap style, inhabiting the body of every Slayer through history and gaining power by enjoying their greatest sexual experience


Questions and observations;
Why doesn't D'Hoffryn come to kill Anya himself? Buffy comments on the Hellmouth's propensity for coming to a climax around May, when the series finale is due. Spike says he's more or less unique as a vamp with a soul (except for Angel). Buffy and Dawn refer to Grandma, the first ever reference to the Summer's grandparents who are presumably deceased. Dawn more and more starting to take on the role of junior Watcher and helps organise the Scoobs with Buffy gone. Buffy asks Anya what she actually does, she later shows us when she helps Willow figure out the spell to bring Buffy back. The return of Black-Eyed Willow and Kickass Spike. When Buffy says she wants the old Spike back is she voicing the opinion of many fans? Here we finally understand what Dracula meant when he referred to the darkness within Buffy and what Adam was referring to in Restless when Buffy says "I'm not a demon" and he replies "Is that a fact?"
Note that the bag which Woods' gives her is the same one she get's the mud from in 'Restless' after which she gives her 'primitive' (or stripper?)leer after giving herself an impromptu facial. According to the Shadowmen Buffy is the Hellmouth's last guardian which indeed she is although in a different way to which we initially understand it. Will mentions 'Bring it on' a movie featuring both Eliza Dushku and Clare Kramer.
Isn't it an awfully big demon they recieve in return for tiny little Buffy? (I remember the idea of a mass substitute from the old Transformers comics). Willow's "My latin sucks" line may be because AH apparently hates all the latin she had to learn for all the magic on the show. Note when Spike is talking to the demon before fighting in the alleyway there's 'Beware of the dog' sign behind him. Willow says that she sucked power from the most powerful person nearby which was Kennedy. Note that Dawn takes a lot longer to recover consciousness than Kennedy, maybe Slayer healing?
So if the bag belonging to Wood's mum wasn't passed down does that explain why the Slayers of the 80s and 90s started to grow beyond the Watcher's control, they weren't subjugated by the Shadowmen's power? And is this why Buffy was never found to be trained until she was 15?
Marks out of 10; 8/10 certainly LOTS to write about

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

Into the Faith/Angelus arc, my favourite episodes of Angel!

SOULESS

Spoiler

The Good;
Love Connor sticking it to the tourist vamps. The rest of the ep is very Hannibal Lecter (you should only watch Manhunter, the rest are crap) and it's interesting how it emotionally affects the rest of the team.
The Bad;
The whole idea of Angelus being able to remember something whilst Angel can't is stupid (it's reminiscent of Buffy not being able to read his thoughts in Earshot). That said you wonder does he know the truth about Dawn?
Best line:
Angelus (on Connor's Oedipal dilemma) "There should be a play"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
An entire family wiped out
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cheap Angel; 6
Fang Gang in bondage: When they bring back Angelus he's tied to the table. So why did they let him up?
Cordy: 5
Angel: 13
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 4
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 13
Angel: 16
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 4
Groo; 1
Kills: Connor kills at least 4 vamps. I know he's pretty much an unpopular character but he is heroic, fighting the good fight on the streets.
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 41 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 12 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamp+ 1 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 12 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons
Fang Gang go evil: Angel big time
Cordy: 2
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 4
Angel: 10
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1

Characters killed: the poor Sver family
255
Recurring characters killed;
8;
Total number of Angel Investigations:
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes, CC

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1
Packing heat;
Wes; 7
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Wes and Fred kiss at last, the effective end of Frunn
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Angel refers to Buffy as a 'pistol'. He refers to his 'first nun' and the gypsy girl he got cursed for as a virgin. He thinks the sword in Angel's fantasy as phallic. He imagines Fred as a schoolgirl (as did Lilah) and thinks about bending her over the kitchen counter. Note when he remarks on 'different strokes' he moves his finger suggestively on the bar. He also comments on CC having a 'rack to write home about' which is certainly true. Angelus says he's sure that Angel like's CC on her knees and that Cordy looks good on everyone, is a screamer and a better ride than a Mustang. Angelus also claims he used to hear Fred and Gunn com-shuking but he might be lying. The rest of the gang find out about Connor and CC. CC offers herself to Angelus in return for his info. The translation of the Beast in ancient runes is 'big hard thing'.
Captain Subtext;
Angelus considers Angel 'candy-ass'.
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
6,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
Questions and observations;
When Angelus is teasing Wes he refers to Faith who is of course coming up. Angel refers to Oedipus which was also referenced in the Buffy ep 'The Puppet Show'. We see Angelus in Prussia in 1789 making his way to Austria. This places him just after Darla abandon's him to Holtz in the barn, they'd agreed to meet in Vienna.

Marks out of 10; 8/10 but it only get's better from here in.

CAVALRY

Spoiler

The Good;
Angelus is so evil and conniving you wonder if Holtz and co had a point? Altogether a great episode with so many wonderful scenes
The Bad;
?
Best line:
Cordelia; (stabbing Lilah) "Why do you think I let him out you stupid *****?"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Some nastily implied racism when Angelus goads Gunn (Liam of course was also pretty racist to Gunn and Wesley in 'Spin the Bottle'). The vamps killing the firemen is also nasty but worst of all the tragedy of the vamped little girl, you realise why Holtz killed his daughter.
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
Fred wants to continue her relationship with Gunn after she learns of Wes and Lilah. But he turns her down, obviously been getting lessons in quiet dignity from the Groo (Riley could have done with some).
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cheap Angel; 6
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 13
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 4
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out: CC by Angelus
Cordy: 14
Angel: 16
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 4
Groo; 1
Kills: 1 demon for Gunn
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 41 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamp+ 1 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 12 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons
Fang Gang go evil: CC and how!
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 4
Angel: 10
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1

Characters killed:
255
Recurring characters killed; alas poor Lilah, she was evil but I always felt there was hope for her.
9;
Total number of Angel Investigations:
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes, CC

Angel Investigations shot: Angelus by Lilah (if she still had her pistol why not use that when Wes enters her hideaway?). CC takes an arrow
Angel: 12
Wes; 1
Packing heat; Gunn with the flamethrower we saw in 'Dad'
Wes; 7
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Interestingly it's Gunn who breaks up with Fred rather than the other way around
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Angelus threatens to rape Fred to death. He also tells an aghast Fred about Wes and Lilah. Angelus thinks Lilah wears a thong.
Captain Subtext;
Angelus thinks Wes is quite the dish 'if I swung that way'. Lilah comments that Lorne's suits make him look like Liberace. Lilah calls Fred 'honey' and asks if CC is trying to 'turn her on?'.
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
6,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
What the fanficcers thought; read an interesting one once where Angelus wipes AI out but then Dru get's resouled and forms her own heroic gang with Lilah, Kate, Gwen, Oz, Justine, Bethany, Ethan Rayne etc

Questions and observations;
Interestingly in this ep we're told a soul can be destroyed which I didn't think was possible. We learn that Angel always suspected that Gunn killed Sidel. The soul-stealer was buried by the Chumash who are the American Indian tribe also featured in 'Pangs'. Nice scene with Connor and Gunn bonding during the digging. Well, hands up who saw this twist coming? Liars! Shocking an all pretty damn brilliant. But you know what, it only get's better from now on! Nice scene at the end where CC and Lilah almost seem to bond a little. Lilah's 'he killed the...' speech appears to be part inspired by 'The Usual Suspects', could the Beast be in fact Keyser Soze? Or is that CC?
Marks out of 10; 9/10

 

[Nemi]

I was trying to think who Parker reminded me off and I now realise it's Barney from HIMYM. When we see him lying in order to bed the bimbo of the week and sometimes even getting Ted, Lily and Robin to help him in his deception (and don't think Marshall ever has? Maybe he's too Minnesota?). And yet Barney is a hero to millions (check out my posting name) and many people's favourite character on the show despite the fact that he's despicable. What's the difference?

Get it Done

Spoiler

The Good;
Buffy's trip to see the Shadowmen finally answers a lot of the questions we've had concerning the Slayer over the years. Plus bad boy Spike is finally back! The Shadowcasting scene is suprisingly creepy.
The Bad;
How convenient that in the ep where Buffy is going to be 'knocked up' by the Shadowmen's pet demon she just happens to wear a skirt for the first time in ages?
Best line;
Buffy; "Always the staff!"
Women good/men bad;
So, the first Slayer wasn't a volunteer after all? How ironic that the Slayer, the symbol of female empowerment is actually based on the subjugation of women, the Shadowmen chaining a young girl to the earth and forcing their will upon her for their higher purposes. If it was anyone but Joss you'd think this was misogynistic but here Buffy once more shows that the modern Slayer has overcome the need for patriarchal domination, she chooses to be the Slayer and will only work with them to save humanity, not under their control. Her breaking the staff could be construed as a phallic symbol? One thought that has been suggested to me before is that vamps are undead and are therefore a travesty of life. Women are the lifegivers so the Slayer's vamp sense is based upon that, that they are almost allergic to something that is against nature? Also possible that a female was selected to be the Slayer as their uterus makes them capable of accepting the demon just as they would a child.
Jeez!;
Chloe's death is beyond horrible
Kinky dinky;
How long have you got? Buffy refers to her being 'knocked up' and 'violated' which is normally CC's job. We discover why Buffy and Faith (and it's hinted a couple of the Potentials) have this dark and kinky sexual side to them, that the Slayer was created in a whirlwind of rape, bondage, impregnation, dark magic and female enslavement. We now know why Buffy and Faith have a thing for older men (the Shadowmen/Watchers) with (as Spike comments) 'a little demon in them' like Angel, Spike, the Mayor, Dracula, Wood (son of a Slayer), the Immortal. You wonder if Dawn will develop the same tastes, she share's Buffy's blood and she's already had a crush on Spike and Justin? I never bothered to count but I think this is the last time Buffy gets sexually assaulted in the series, off the top of my head that makes seven (Xander in The Pack, twice by Larry in Halloween, by Cam and then the entire mutated swimteam in Go Fish, by Spike in Seeing Red) If we don't count The Master and presuming her and Drac was consensual. Borders on Got-fic.
Anya still seems to have the hots for Spike but he's not interested.
Spike; "You're like a dog with a bone"
Anya; "Well a girl get's hungry!"
Spike; "It's MY bone!"
of course you could just suspect that she might be trying to make Xander jealous after his date with Lissa in last week's ep. Wood describes HIMSELF as cool and sexy and Buffy agrees adding he's a snappy dresser. Spike thinks the tension between him and Wood is jealousy over Buffy but he's mistaken.
Captain Subtext;
You could interpret that fact that Buffy is actually made stronger by the Shadowmen forcing themselves upon her as a metaphor for the power of female sexuality? Buffy mentions to Wood that Willow has been 'experimenting' a remark she seems to take exception to. When Spike tells Buffy about saving Anya from the demon he says he 'Beat him off' before thinking of a better phrasing.
Note the gentle, intimate gesture of the third Shadowman stroking his hand down Buffy's cheek even after their violent conquest of her that preceded it. What's more Buffy actually let's him do it, it's almost a fatherly moment of affection between them. (Her Slayer side born of the Shadowmen, her Buffy side born of Hank and Joyce?). Kennedy's rejection of Willow having seen her darkside is reminiscent of how CC rejects Angel in season 4 having seen the things he did as Angelus when she was a higher power. Interestingly having been rejected by her girlfriend Willow makes her way to Buffy's bed and suggests that Buffy use 'kisses' (and Twinkies) to motivate her and the others.
Guantanamo Bay;
The Shadowmen are supremely ruthless, the Watcher's Council haven't changed much in all that time. Buffy's almost callous treatment of Chloe shows her going the same way. How the Shadowmen then treat her wakes her up to how she's been behaving and makes her much more human from now on. She comments to the Shadowmen that by giving her more power they're making her 'less human'. All along The First has been saying it's not about right and wrong it's about power. But Buffy rejects the power for what is right, as Wood remarks she's 'redefining the role'.
Some people say that this is Buffy at her nastiest but I sympathise with her, when you see the scene with her walking around at the start guarding over the sleeping potentials she just looks so concerned and loving. She's mad at Chloe for leaving them in the lurch, she shouts at everyone else because they've got to bring their game up and indeed Spike, Willow and Anya do as a result of her harraunging. I'm actually mad with Dawn, Xander etc for letting poor Buffy have to bury Chloe alone. Kennedy is much more to blame than Buffy calling Chloe 'maggot' but she doesn't seem to give a damn. And she even shouts at Amanda when she gives her cute little wave to Woods.
More anti-French racism which was popular in the US at the time. Buffy of course is right, not all the girls will make it, tragic but true.
Scoobies to the ER;
Missing scenes;
Apocalypses; 7,
Wheldon Cliches (with kind permission from Boo)

Scoobies in bondage: Buffy in chains as she's ravished by the demon.
Buffy: 9
Giles: 4
Cordy: 5
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 4
Oz: 1
Faith: 3
Joyce: 1
Wes: 1
Xander; 3
Dawn; 4
Spike; 3

Scoobies knocked out: Buffy by the Shadowmen, Will and Spike by the demon, Dawn and Kennedy by Willow
Buffy: 21
Giles: 12
Cordy: 6
Xander: 16
Will: 10
Jenny: 2
Angel: 6
Oz: 3
Faith: 1
Joyce: 3
Wes: 1
Anya;7
Dawn; 5
Tara; 1
Spike; 2
Kennedy; 1
Kills: one demon for Spike, the big bad is back!
Buffy: 121 vamps, 62 demons, 6 monsters, 10 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot
Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demons, 2 humans/1 god.
Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn+1 human.
Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie
Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans
Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1½ a demon, 2 humans
Anya: 1 vamp and 1½ a demon
Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons
Spike; 9 vamps and 7 demons+1 human
Buffybot; 2 vamps
Tara; 1 demon
Dawn; 1 vamp + 1 demon
Kennedy; 1 human+1 vampire
Amanda; 1 vampire
Woods; 5 vamps and 2 demons

Scoobies go evil:
Giles: 1
Cordy: 1
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 1
Oz: 1
Joyce: 1
Xander: 4
Anya; 1
Dawn; 1
Buffy; 1
Spike; 1

Alternate scoobies:
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 1
Will: 6
Jenny: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 2
Joyce: 2
Xander: 4
Tara; 1
Dawn;1
Spike; 1
Anya; 2

Recurring characters killed: 14, poor Chloe
Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce, Katrina, Tara, Quentin Travers, Chloe.

Sunnydale deaths; poor Chloe
104

Total number of scoobies: 30- goodbye Chloe but there now seems to be about 16 potentials in total. Noticeably no Molly though.
Xander, Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Anya, Spike, Giles, Kennedy, Molly, Vi, Rhona, Amanda, Chao-Anh, Woods

Xander demon magnet: 6(7?)
Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya, Lissa (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot:
Giles: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 4
Riley; 1
Buffy; 1
Tara; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost: do we count Buffy and the Shadowmen's pet demon as sex? It's definitely metaphorical rape but is it actual? There's certainly plenty of penetration of her mouth and under both the front and back of her skirt (all bases covered?). She graphically shudders, writhes, groans, gasps, bucks and moans like an enthusiastic porn star faking it, screaming in pleasure/pain and all the time straining against her chains (as Anya puts it 'the pleasure moment/Shiver me timbers'?). Watching her almost feels voyeuristic, if this wasn't Joss you'd scream "Exploitation!". However this is Joss and the power this gives her allows her to break her chains, the First Slayer saying the Slayer derives power from pain, the whole 'women experience pain differently' concept coming to the fore again.
Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes?
Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 3 possible, Dracula+RJ+Shadowman's demon(?)
Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?)
Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca
Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley
Xander: 2; Faith, Anya
Willow: 2;Oz and Tara
Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vamp****e
Spike; 2 Buffy and Anya
Anya; 2 Spike and Xander
Dawn in peril; 14
Dawn the bashful virgin; 9
What the fanficcers thought;
A LOT of fic has Buffy being treated nastily by the Shadowmen etc as her comeuppance for treating her friends and family so nastily but as always, forgiveness is big in the Buffyverse and it all ends happily. One in particular where the Shadowmen keep Buffy as their slave but in the follow up we find she's been faking all along in order to give herself a mini-break from the responsibilities of Sunnydale. Another where she travels back through time Quantum Leap style, inhabiting the body of every Slayer through history and gaining power by enjoying their greatest sexual experience


Questions and observations;
Why doesn't D'Hoffryn come to kill Anya himself? Buffy comments on the Hellmouth's propensity for coming to a climax around May, when the series finale is due. Spike says he's more or less unique as a vamp with a soul (except for Angel). Buffy and Dawn refer to Grandma, the first ever reference to the Summer's grandparents who are presumably deceased. Dawn more and more starting to take on the role of junior Watcher and helps organise the Scoobs with Buffy gone. Buffy asks Anya what she actually does, she later shows us when she helps Willow figure out the spell to bring Buffy back. The return of Black-Eyed Willow and Kickass Spike. When Buffy says she wants the old Spike back is she voicing the opinion of many fans? Here we finally understand what Dracula meant when he referred to the darkness within Buffy and what Adam was referring to in Restless when Buffy says "I'm not a demon" and he replies "Is that a fact?"
Note that the bag which Woods' gives her is the same one she get's the mud from in 'Restless' after which she gives her 'primitive' (or stripper?)leer after giving herself an impromptu facial. According to the Shadowmen Buffy is the Hellmouth's last guardian which indeed she is although in a different way to which we initially understand it. Will mentions 'Bring it on' a movie featuring both Eliza Dushku and Clare Kramer.
Isn't it an awfully big demon they recieve in return for tiny little Buffy? (I remember the idea of a mass substitute from the old Transformers comics). Willow's "My latin sucks" line may be because AH apparently hates all the latin she had to learn for all the magic on the show. Note when Spike is talking to the demon before fighting in the alleyway there's 'Beware of the dog' sign behind him. Willow says that she sucked power from the most powerful person nearby which was Kennedy. Note that Dawn takes a lot longer to recover consciousness than Kennedy, maybe Slayer healing?
So if the bag belonging to Wood's mum wasn't passed down does that explain why the Slayers of the 80s and 90s started to grow beyond the Watcher's control, they weren't subjugated by the Shadowmen's power? And is this why Buffy was never found to be trained until she was 15?
Marks out of 10; 8/10 certainly LOTS to write about

I've been meaning to start watching that show just for his character.

 

[Iron Man]

I just watched "Hero". [blackout]Doyle died?! I didn't expect that...just as he was starting to get some development, too. At least it was a good death scene, and the final moments with Angel and Cordelia were quite poignant. I hope whoever replaces him gets to stick around longer. And what was up with that weird light that crossed between him and Cordelia when they kissed? I'm betting that his visions passed along to her somehow, considering they're such a big part of the show's M.O.[/blackout]

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Does anyone have any info on the supposed Buffy Movie Reboot? Just wondered if it was still on the cards (dear god I hope not)

I've never done anything like that myself, so don't know what that is all about, I recall talking to a woman I liked about my dad dying, but she was the one who brought it up, lol. Sure, maybe the thought crossed my mind that I might get a sympathy date or something, lol, but I sure as hell didn't dwell on it. And, I might add, I've never thought of or spoken of women that way either.
But, the ironic thing is, that women was my 'Parker', and funnily enough, she would bang on about her dad dying quite a lot, and one guy did accuse her of trying to get sympathy and attention from people from it.

But, this can happen to guys too, getting led on and humiliated, as this woman did to me, she knew I liked her, and she did like me in that way, she just didn't want to go out with me, but she sure as hell did not want anyone else going out with me either, lol.
Whenever we would be in a gathering at the pub or at a party, and another woman would come onto me, she would growl at me until I brushed them off and then she would let me cuddle her on the couch, and/or give me her number to phone her up for a date.
But...y'know, she just wanted me to give her all my attention cause of her ego, she would bs me about going on a date, tell me she phoned me when she didn't etc.
and then, the next time I saw her she would have a guy in tow and would sit with her friends having a real good laugh at me, as I was the naive fool, just like Buffy.
Man, I brushed off at least two women I knew who were genuinely interested in me, really nice, attractive, smart women, as I naively thought I had a chance with that Parkeress, lol.

Anyway, I thought it was time for a little male perspective on that kind of thing. You don't have to sleep with someone in order to lead them on, hurt and humiliate them.

I have spoken about this Parker episode before, but there is one insight I didn't click to before.
He knows he is a really good looking guy, and I guess he could have built up a resentment to women because of that, that type, whenever he'll get a pang of guilt about leading her on, he'll think 'Well, y'know, if I was ugly and had spun that sob story, she wouldn't have slept with me, so who cares, she just wanted to sleep with me cause I am good looking.'

But, that is a bunch of bs as well. Every single person on Earth, if they are attracted to a good looking person, have genuine feelings for them, are going to be pleased that they are good looking, no exceptions. I don't think being a good looker is as much of a cross to bear as being ugly or whatever, and if you think it is, you *must* be very good looking, lol, so shut the **** up, I'm telling you that on behalf of the ugly people of the world, get a grip.

Because there are types like that, and it can spin off out of control into misoginy, or the female equivalent(don't know if there is a word for that, if there isn't dictionaries are sexist), a hatred for men in general, because they resent the fact that men find them good looking, so they think 'They only like me cause I am good looking, so **** em, they are pigs.' But, y'know, maybe the guy genuinely likes you, he can't help the fact he likes the fact you are good looking. So, the woman can build up such a hatred of men that she ends up alone, thinking in essence she is too good for them, and all men are shallow and stupid. When of course they are not.

I agree with you. 1. Women can use men in exactly the same way and 2. it bugs the hell out of me when people moan about being too attractive. It's just stupid. Almost as stupid as skinny girls complaining they are fat.

I just watched "Hero". [blackout]Doyle died?! I didn't expect that...just as he was starting to get some development, too. At least it was a good death scene, and the final moments with Angel and Cordelia were quite poignant. I hope whoever replaces him gets to stick around longer. And what was up with that weird light that crossed between him and Cordelia when they kissed? I'm betting that his visions passed along to her somehow, considering they're such a big part of the show's M.O.[/blackout]

I think it was basically Joss Whedon's way of reminding us that in his shows, NO ONE is safe, NOTHING is predictable. He will always do the unexpected and do it unapologetically. Because that's what life is like.

 

[flickchick85]

I think it was basically Joss Whedon's way of reminding us that in his shows, NO ONE is safe, NOTHING is predictable. He will always do the unexpected and do it unapologetically. Because that's what life is like.

Well that, and the actor had a drug problem. From what I heard, he was let go after they gave him an ultimatum to seek treatment and he refused. And then he died a couple years after that.

As for the Buffy reboot, I'm pretty sure it's still on the books, but I don't think there have been any new developments. Hopefully it will just get stuck in Development Hell for eternity.

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

I've been meaning to start watching that show just for his character.

You should, it's a hilarious show and a great performance from Neil Patrick Harris, all the more so as he's actually gay. What's more the producers are Buffy fans so you get plenty of cameos from Whedonverse actors, so far we've had;
Alysson Hannigan, Alexis Denisoff, Amy Acker, Danny Strong, Tom Lenk, Harry Groener, the girl who plays Inara on Firefly but whose name I can't remember and even Wig Lady from Doublemeat Palace (did I miss any?)

STORYTELLER

Spoiler

The Good;
The wonderful Andrew in the kitchen fantasy sequence, all the straight to camera stuff and Spike's conceit towards the camera. The hilarious 'We are gods' sequence complete with unicorn. But who cares because the Cheese Man from Restless is back!
The Bad;
Do we really believe that Andrew can read an ancient demon language and yet doesn't bother to translate what's on the knife? Wouldn't the Invisible Girl be a useful ally against the First? Or does it matter as the Bringers are blind anyway? Andrew says that Buffy has no steak knives, so what did she stab the Queller demon with?
Best line;
Andrew (describing Dawn); "Bubbly and sweet with a hunger for fun and a smile that lights up the room"
Women good/men bad;
Possessed Wood refers to Buffy as a ****e for screwing Spike
Jeez!;
According to Willow's research Greek cookbooks like to use goat's tongues. Let's hope the Supersizers don't get around to ancient Greece, I doubt even Sue and Giles could eat that (Giles Coren that is, not Rupert Giles). Exploding heads too although that's just implied.
Kinky dinky;
Buffy apparently dreams of running for the bus whilst naked. Oddly whilst much of this ep confirms our suspicions of Andrew as gay he glosses over cute but unconventionally pretty Amanda in the kitchen scene for the blonde bimbo whose name he doesn't even know, a very hetero male thing to do. Anya is suspicious as to what Andrew is doing by himself in the bathroom with a video camera. She suggests that the rest of the Scoobies just *********e in there. Anya and Xander get it on once more, in Spike's bed in the basement! Revenge for Xander having to put Spike up in his basement and closet? Anya comments that she's a 'spitfire' in bed whilst they both agree that this was an act of closure and comment that it's a shame Buffy took Spike's chains down. Dawn wears a remarkably revealing top, showing her now formidable cleavage off to to all.
Captain Subtext;
Willow and Kennedy kissing and totally ignored by Andrew? Hmmmmmm? The Playboy test for heterosexuality (enjoying the thought of 2 or more women together)and he failed it completely. Guess the pair got over the events of 'Get it done'. Andrew also thinks that the tension between Woods and Spike is sexual in nature. Note Spike is topless in Andrew's kitchen fantasy. Andrew also admires Xander's skill with his hands 'Extraordinary' and implies that he thinks Jonathon is cute. In his fantasy Andrew has Warren commenting he's good-looking. Andrew and Jonathon share a bed together whilst on the run. Andrew says that Jonathon promised to buy him a 'burro', Spanish for ass (hopefully the hooved kind?)
Guantanamo Bay;
The Scoobs don't hesitate to threaten and rough Andrew up.
Scoobies to the ER;
Missing scenes;
Apocalypses; 7, Buffy says that there are 'hundreds upon hundreds' Turok-Han in her vision implying tens of thousands. Ok, if they got out it would be bad but against 6 billion humans armed with all our technology would it really be the end of the world?
Wheldon Cliches (with kind permission from Boo)

Scoobies in bondage:
Buffy: 9
Giles: 4
Cordy: 5
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 4
Oz: 1
Faith: 3
Joyce: 1
Wes: 1
Xander; 3
Dawn; 4
Spike; 3

Scoobies knocked out:
Buffy: 21
Giles: 12
Cordy: 6
Xander: 16
Will: 10
Jenny: 2
Angel: 6
Oz: 3
Faith: 1
Joyce: 3
Wes: 1
Anya;7
Dawn; 5
Tara; 1
Spike; 2
Kennedy; 1
Kills: two vamps killed by Buffy
Buffy: 123 vamps, 62 demons, 6 monsters, 10 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot
Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demons, 2 humans/1 god.
Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn+1 human.
Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie
Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans
Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1½ a demon, 2 humans
Anya: 1 vamp and 1½ a demon
Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons
Spike; 9 vamps and 7 demons+1 human
Buffybot; 2 vamps
Tara; 1 demon
Dawn; 1 vamp + 1 demon
Kennedy; 1 human+1 vampire
Amanda; 1 vampire
Woods; 5 vamps and 2 demons

Scoobies go evil: Wood possessed by the seal. Buffy says she never went evil but she did try to kill everyone in Normal Again.
Giles: 1
Cordy: 1
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 1
Oz: 1
Joyce: 1
Xander: 4
Anya; 1
Dawn; 1
Buffy; 1
Spike; 1
Wood; 1

Alternate scoobies:
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 1
Will: 6
Jenny: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 2
Joyce: 2
Xander: 4
Tara; 1
Dawn;1
Spike; 1
Anya; 2

Recurring characters killed: 14,
Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce, Katrina, Tara, Quentin Travers, Chloe.

Sunnydale deaths; the poor student whose head explodes Scanner's style
105

Total number of scoobies: 30 or so, going to add Andrew to the mix
Xander, Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Anya, Spike, Giles, Kennedy, Molly, Vi, Rhona, Amanda, Chao-Anh, Wood, Andrew plus an indeterminate number of potentials, at least a dozen or more.

Xander demon magnet: 6(7?)
Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya, Lissa (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot:
Giles: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 4
Riley; 1
Buffy; 1
Tara; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost:
Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes?
Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 3 possible, Dracula+RJ+Shadowman's demon(?)
Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?)
Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca
Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley
Xander: 2; Faith, Anya
Willow: 2;Oz and Tara
Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vamp****e
Spike; 2 Buffy and Anya
Anya; 2 Spike and Xander
Dawn in peril; 14
Dawn the bashful virgin; 9
What the fanficcers thought;
The erotic adventures of the nerds a staple of much slash fiction.
Questions and observations;
The invisible girl at school is reminiscent of Marcie in 'Out of sight, out of mind', as Joss said it's all about getting back to the first season. Buffy also refers back to The Witch in that everyone hates the cheerleaders and to Amanda's loathing of the marching band in Potential. Unless someone can correct me the last appearance of Warren and Jonathon in the series. The poor piglet is still running around, I'd always assumed the Turok-Han ate it. Suprising that Buffy still let's Amanda and Dawn go to SDH. Note that Jonathon just wants Buffy to stick to her car if she's supermagnetic but Warren more viciously wants sharp things to fly at her. The flesh coloured plaster joke rather reminds me of Bloom County, one of my favourite comic strips, anyone else remember it?
Where do people always get flaming barrel's from? Is there a picket line at SDH? Good thing Buffy had Spike's chip removed or he wouldn't have been able to fight the students. We see how The First forms it's Bringers. The important thing of course is that Andrew doesn't cry tears of pain or fear but of remorse, he's sorry for what he did. Andrew refers to Xander as the heart of the Slayer machine just as he was in Primeval. Can anyone tell me what exactly Andrew mouths to Amanda in the kitchen after he says 'Not you sweetheart'? Buffy mentions running to catch a bus in one of her dreams although she doesn't know where it's going and indeed she does in Chosen (but not whilst naked). Andrew refers to buying the sacrificial knife from a weapons dealer who also sells collapsible swords (like Wes has on Angel) and poison arrows (like Faith used on Angel). Be sure to watch to the end to catch the GrrrArrggh demon singing "We are gods!"
Last appearance of Warren and Jonathon although Adam Busch plays a VERY Warren like character in an episode of Terminator; The Sarah Connor Chronicles.
Marks out of 10; 8/10 Andrew comes into his own.

LIES MY PARENTS TOLD ME

Spoiler

The Good;
All the flashback sequences are wonderful. Great to see the real Dru on the show again, love her expression when Spike talks of bringing his mum with them. Possibly the worst introduction of any new girlfriend to a prospective mother-in-law in the history of the world? The powerful scenes between Wood and Giles and the face off between Spike and Wood are awesome.
The Bad;
Spike just deciding to leave Nikki alone for a while after finding her beggars belief, couldn't they have had a police car pull up or something? Or was Spike worried about messing up his hair? No real comparison between Joyce and Nikki, Joyce died of natural causes, although heartbreaking for Buffy and Dawn there was no one to blame, it was just her time. Unsouled Spike hunted down and murdered Nikki for fun!
Best line;
Buffy (to Giles); "I think you've taught me everthing I need to know" Ooooohhhhhh!
Women good/men bad;
At the end of the ep Buffy shares a moment of intimacy with Dawn in bed then closes the door on Giles. The implication is that she chooses her literal and metaphorical sister(s) over her father figure?
Jeez!;
Spike's mum remarks that he wants to 'get inside her' again, yeeeesshhh! Her rejection of him is heartrending. The mindworm is also nasty, reminiscent of Star Trek 2. Spike's goading of Wood over his mother choosing slaying over him is nasty and very possibly not true as we learn in 'Damage'. Nikki sacrifices herself to save Robin and millions like him just as Buffy does in The Gift with Dawn, she loved him but she just couldn't be with him. Nikki just didn't bump into Spike on patrol, he hunted her down off-duty, she tells Robin he can't go home because she fears Spike will find them there. She never volunteered to be the Slayer and she couldn't quit. She dies trying to save him.
Wood's knuckledusters are pretty vicious but you'd think useful in a fight.
Kinky dinky;
Spike tells Nikki he's going to 'ride her hard'. She responds that he's 'wet and limp'. Xander bemoans the fact that Spike's chains weren't there last week when he and Anya had their breakup sex. Dru refers to Spike as 'sweet Willy' whilst he describes her as saucy.
Captain Subtext;
Needless to say a lot of people speculate on an incestuous attraction between Spike and his mum. I don't buy that, I think William is just a devoted son to his loving mother, even soulless Spike is horrified when she makes her incestuous suggestion. I'm quite prepared to accept Connor having sex with Cordy, that Ares is Xena's dad or even that Beatrice in Kill Bill might actually be his daughter but not this.
One reason Spike's mum might be so mean to him once sired is that she's jealous of Drusilla whom she refers to as 'That trollop'. Note Dru calls herself Spike's 'Other mummy'. Check out her little look as Spike stakes her, almost of relief/affection? Could she have been goading Spike into killing her?
Speaking of Oedipal implications as we suspected Wood tells Buffy that she reminds him of his mother. Interestingly whilst most girls would consider that a turn off, she seems to rather like the idea. According to the commentary Spike's mum is called 'Anne' which of course is Buffy's middle name. And upon seeing Spike's relationship with his own mother I think we all understand his apparently genuine affection for Joyce a lot better.
Andrew takes the call from Fred whom he thinks sounds 'effeminate'. Buffy substitutes 'prophylactic' for 'prokaryote' in regard to Spike which is a Freudian slip if ever there was one.
Guantanamo Bay;
Giles acts as a calculating general and wishes to kill Spike out of logic. Wood by contrast know's it's wrong but acts because his love for his mother is more powerful than all reason. Giles has actually started acting like Travers and the rest of the Watcher's Council but then so did Buffy in Potential, giving her girls their own Cruciantenam.
Scoobies to the ER;
Missing scenes;
12 minutes of extra footage according to the commentary? We must have entire movies of deleted scenes available for special edition DVD releases! One scene I think we'd all like to see is Giles confess to Buffy about killing Ben.
Apocalypses; 7,
Wheldon Cliches (with kind permission from Boo)

Scoobies in bondage: Spike in chains
Buffy: 9
Giles: 4
Cordy: 5
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 4
Oz: 1
Faith: 3
Joyce: 1
Wes: 1
Xander; 3
Dawn; 4
Spike; 4

Scoobies knocked out: Poor Dawn although nothing is broken (at least Willow hopes so)
Buffy: 21
Giles: 12
Cordy: 6
Xander: 16
Will: 10
Jenny: 2
Angel: 6
Oz: 3
Faith: 1
Joyce: 3
Wes: 1
Anya;7
Dawn; 6
Tara; 1
Spike; 2
Kennedy; 1
Kills: 2 vamps for Spike (excluding his mum) and 2 for Buffy if we assume she finished off the vamp in the alley at the start
Buffy: 125 vamps, 62 demons, 6 monsters, 10 humans, 1 spirit warrior & a robot
Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demons, 2 humans/1 god.
Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn+1 human.
Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie, 1 werewolf,
Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans
Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1½ a demon, 2 humans
Anya: 1 vamp and 1½ a demon
Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons
Spike; 11 vamps and 7 demons+1 human
Buffybot; 2 vamps
Tara; 1 demon
Dawn; 1 vamp + 1 demon
Kennedy; 1 human+1 vampire
Amanda; 1 vampire
Woods; 5 vamps and 2 demons

Scoobies go evil:
Giles: 1
Cordy: 1
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 1
Oz: 1
Joyce: 1
Xander: 4
Anya; 1
Dawn; 1
Buffy; 1
Spike; 1
Wood; 1

Alternate scoobies:
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 1
Will: 6
Jenny: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 2
Joyce: 2
Xander: 4
Tara; 1
Dawn;1
Spike; 1
Anya; 2

Recurring characters killed: 15,
Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce, Katrina, Tara, Quentin Travers, Chloe, Jonathon.

Sunnydale deaths;
105

Total number of scoobies: 30 or so
Xander, Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Anya, Spike, Giles, Kennedy, Molly, Vi, Rhona, Amanda, Chao-Anh, Wood, Andrew plus an indeterminate number of potentials, at least a dozen or more.

Xander demon magnet: 6(7?)
Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya, Lissa (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot:
Giles: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 4
Riley; 1
Buffy; 1
Tara; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost:
Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes?
Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 3 possible, Dracula+RJ+Shadowmen's demon(?)
Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?)
Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca
Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley
Xander: 2; Faith, Anya
Willow: 2;Oz and Tara
Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vamp****e
Spike; 2 Buffy and Anya
Anya; 2 Spike and Xander
Dawn in peril; 14
Dawn the bashful virgin; 9
What the fanficcers thought;
Questions and observations;
Buffy says she is now willing to sacrifice Dawn to save the world. Because she's older or because Buffy knows there's a heaven? Probably the latter as it's only after Giles remarks about what she's been through (death/afterlife) that she says it. She regards death as the reward for being human, the big dessert at the end of the meal. Or because Dawn is no longer her sole focus? She comments here that Dawn is 'tough'. Spike retains some of his humanity as a vampire (as the Judge senses in Becoming pt1), perhaps because of Dru's link to the PTB? When his mum is sick Spike suggests fetching Dr Gull which was also the name of Queen Victoria's physician and a popular suspect for Jack the Ripper but we've no proof it's the same guy. Willow recieves her phonecall from Fred in the Angel ep 'Orpheus'. Buffy still feels bad about how she treated her family and friends in 'Get it done', her punishment at the hands of the Shadowmen has actually benefitted her by bringing her to her senses in that regard, she's not so hardass any more. We really do have bad boy Spike back here, from now on he's the guy we know from seasons 2-4 but playing for the good guys. But deep down we know he'll always be William the Bloody (awful poet). He knew Buffy was in the light and he was always in the darkness. If he pulled her into the darkness he wouldn't love her anymore so he pulls himself into the light instead (with thanks to White Avenger from Buffyboards)
Nikki speaks of Robin liking playing with the 'Spooky doodas' at her Watcher's house. Does she mean the Shadow puppets we see in 'Get it Done'?
It speaks of Buffy's prowess as a Slayer that she can toy so effortlessly with the vamp whilst Giles talks to her. Does Spike mean what he says about not caring for Nikki or is this just revenge for his beating? Note both Spike and Angel(us) killed their mothers. Also although we don't see her use it Spike's mum has a wheelchair, no wonder he so hated being stuck in one for most of season 2.
So who's right? You've got to understand Wood's point, imagine if Spike had killed Joyce and went around wearing her coat as a trophy? Would anything on earth stop Buffy staking him? Or would he wake up on fire as Dawn promised? Again Wood is very similar to Holtz on Angel or Callisto on Xena. Note that Wood realises that souled Spike ISN'T the man who killed Nikki, he has to play 'Early one morning' to bring him out. Rare to have 2 eps with such a similar theme (Andrew and Spike's flashback filled redemption) in a row but it works fine.

Marks out of 10; 10/10 brilliant!

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

Does anyone have any info on the supposed Buffy Movie Reboot? Just wondered if it was still on the cards (dear god I hope not)



I agree with you. 1. Women can use men in exactly the same way and 2. it bugs the hell out of me when people moan about being too attractive. It's just stupid. Almost as stupid as skinny girls complaining they are fat.



I think it was basically Joss Whedon's way of reminding us that in his shows, NO ONE is safe, NOTHING is predictable. He will always do the unexpected and do it unapologetically. Because that's what life is like.

I was actually waiting for Iron Man to get to this point, I knew it would knock him/her sideways as it certainly did me! Don't worry, his replacement is great beyond your wildest dreams and lasts a lot longer

Now I knew Glenn Quinn died of a drug overdose (one of the later eps us dedicated to his memory) but the idea that he was forced out because he refused to get treatment is news to me, he was apparently DB's big friend on the show. I always thought Joss killed him off just like Jenny or Flutie to show us no one was safe. During my rewatch I worked out that we lose one regular or recurring character every 8 eps or so, I don't think there was ever a show more ruthless in killing off it's cast.

Here comes the wonderful!

SALVAGE

Spoiler

The Good;
Chant it with me boys and girls, FAITH-FAITH-FAITH-FAITH! My favourite episode of Angel is Orpheus, my favourite moment is at the end of 5X5 where Wes drops the knife in the alley but my favourite scene is where Wes has his conversation with the imaginary Lilah here, it's just stunning.
The Bad;
If you think there's anything wrong in this episode then I suggest you go to the doctor for some anti-crazy pills! Ok so the demon who wants Angelus to sign something for his spawn is woefully badly done.
Best line:
Faith; "Just like riding a biker" (oh she is SUCH a naughty girl!)
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Connor; "I don't give a flying schluck!" (I had to rewind this to check this line). Awful watching Faith getting a terrible kicking from the Beast. But your heart just bleeds for Wesley having to decapitate Lilah's corpse, couldn't he have let Connor or Gunn do it?
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cheap Angel; 6
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 13
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 4
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out: CC passes out in the lobby
Cordy: 15
Angel: 16
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 4
Groo; 1
Kills: 2 vamps for Faith, 1 for Connor
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 41 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamp+ 1 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 13 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 4
Angel: 10
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1

Characters killed:
255
Recurring characters killed;
9;
Total number of Angel Investigations: Faith joins AI for a three episode arc, making this the biggest line-up ever (although of course CC is actually evil as indeed is Angel)
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes, CC, Connor, Faith

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 12
Wes; 1
Wes; 7
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 2

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: CC and The Beast get all kissy? I don't know if they Com-shuked though, I'm not even sure if The Beast has the equipment to so I'll put him down as a possible
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor, 1 possible; The Beast
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible Justine
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Faith actually tells Wes he looks good. Gunn and Connor also like Faith, she comments it's a shame when Gunn says 'I hold my own'. Faith tells Angelus to 'Give us a kiss' just as she did to Buffy in Graduation Day Pt1. Faith is also described as 'smokin hot'. Angelus says that he knew Faith would enjoy a threesome and suggests he, she and the Beast 'get it on'. Interestingly she says 'Sure!'. Connor has a weakness for Slayers just like his old man. Angelus seems disappointed that he's facing Faith and not Buffy.
Captain Subtext;
Personally I think Faith-in-prison would be a good series in itself.
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
6,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
What the fanficcers thought;
Faith being released from prison to help out either the Sunnydale scoobies or Angel Investigations is such a popular theme in fanfic it borders on the cliche.

Questions and observations;
Everyone else notice that the knife the assasin tries to use to kill Faith is the same as those used by The Bringers in Buffy? Can anyone else explain to me what Jasmine's plan is and how Angelus and The Beast fit into it? Can't Angelus read CC's scent at the warehouse or has she disguised it? Lilah talks of redemption, even after death is it too late for her? Of course Faith never met the real Angelus and Wes only met him for a little while under the effects of the drug in 'Eternity'. The term 'The Skinny' is used about Fred, I wonder if it was deliberate? Angelus calls Dawn, to judge from their conversation she and Angel get on well. Faith says that girls are always the Slayer because they're 'better'. We have the 'what do you do?' speech from Speed which was HUGE at the time. Faith's ingenuity of breaking the window with the chains to let in the sunlight is awesome. But you just know she'd have figured out some way to defeat Angelus, she's our girl.

Marks out of 10; 10/10 and the good just keeps coming!

And it just keeps coming!

RELEASE

Spoiler

The Good;
The Wes and Faith hurt/comfort scenes are excellent. The hunting of Angelus is magnificent.
The Bad;
Wes' shotgun seems to contain an inordinate amount of shells?
Best line:
Lorne "Mojo?"
Fred "Nojo"
also like;
Vamp (as the daylight returns); "What the f...?"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Hard to watch Faith all banged up and self harming in Wes' shower, you'd think Eliza naked in a shower would normally be cause for celebration but not this time. A magic shop owner badly beaten but at least alive, if this was Sunnydale he'd be a goner.
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cheap Angel; 6
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 13
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 4
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out: Poor old Lorne and Connor knocked out, the latter assuming the classic Jesus pose.
Cordy: 15
Angel: 16
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 5
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Kills; one vamp for Wes
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 41 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+4 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamp+ 1 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 13 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 4
Angel: 10
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1

Characters killed:
255
Recurring characters killed;
9;
Total number of Angel Investigations:
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes, CC, Connor, Faith

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 12
Wes; 1
Wes; 7
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 2
Packing heat; Wes breaks out his shotgun
Wes; 8
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Fred wants Gunn back but he turns her down. Connor is at least part demon meaning 4 out of CC's 5 lovers have been some form of supernatural creatures.
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Faith actually has the most unerotic shower scene for a beautiful woman in the history of TV. Apparently CC and Angelus both 'like to watch'. The demon declares he thought 'she was 18'. Faith refers to being 'spanked'. Angelus says 'That hurt. I liked it'. Wes refers to Sylvia Plath who wrote about the 'Electra complex' referring to Agamenon's relationship with his daughter in Greek mythology but also a term for girls' quest for a father figure throughout their lives (Buffy/Giles, Faith/Giles, Faith/The Mayor and finally here's Faith/Wes as the Watcher's Council always intended).
Faith; "Screw you!"
Angelus; "Maybe after! I like my girls to lie still"
CC knocked up AGAIN! 3rd time in 5 years. Does she ever meet a demon she doesn't get impregnated by? If that's your thing (and you're over 18!) check here; http://www.taboostudios.com/taboomain.html

Captain Subtext;
Angelus is told he's going to be the master's '*****' like the Beast. And so he is. "Master". The junkie in the vamp brothel thinks Faith is pretty and asks if she wants to make out? She seems tempted (maybe missing the communal soapings in the prison showers?). Wes says that the girl probably enjoyed Faith hitting her and says that Faith is still looking for some S&M punishment. Angelus refers to Wes as a 'ponce'.
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
6,
Guantanamo Bay;
Faith and Wes torture their way through LA, he's so hardcore even she's outraged.
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
What the fanficcers thought;
So what if Angelus had really turned Faith? A lot written on this idea but a sequal to them all has Faith's Slayer nature taking over and getting them both resouled.

Questions and observations;
Fred's good with a tranquilizer gun but then she is from Texas. Her hair rather makes her look like Princess Leia. The one horned demon in the bar sounds an awful lot like Merle. How much of losing the fight is Faith faking? Faith is bitten by Angelus, Xander, Tara, Wes and Oz, the only Sunnydale Scoobies never to be bitten by a vampire.

Marks out of 10; 10/10 no question.

 

[Iron Man]

I was actually waiting for Iron Man to get to this point, I knew it would knock him/her sideways as it certainly did me! Don't worry, his replacement is great beyond your wildest dreams and lasts a lot longer

Him And it definitely did shock me. I didn't really think he was going to die until he actually did.

On another note, "Hush" was amazing. The idea of having an entire episode with almost no dialogue was ingenious, and the Gentlemen were creepy as hell. One of my favourite Buffy episodes so far...just brilliant.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Now I knew Glenn Quinn died of a drug overdose (one of the later eps us dedicated to his memory) but the idea that he was forced out because he refused to get treatment is news to me, he was apparently DB's big friend on the show. I always thought Joss killed him off just like Jenny or Flutie to show us no one was safe. During my rewatch I worked out that we lose one regular or recurring character every 8 eps or so, I don't think there was ever a show more ruthless in killing off it's cast.

It's ironic and hypocritical that they should chastise an actor for his drug use, when the character they wrote for him was an alcoholic, or borderline anyway, and they made that a 'cool' and 'amusing' aspect of his character.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have been concerned about his drug use, especially if it was dangerous, but don't go making an addiction to another drug on the show seem hip and cool just because it is legal and, as a result, socially acceptable. Especially considering that legal drug kills more people than any illegal drug.

edit: I was always really surprised that they had the character talking about getting drunk, on his way to the pub to get drunk, talking about the night before when he was drunk, or nursing a hangover, with none of the usually holier than thou Buffy/Angel alumni digging him up about it, but of course he was Irish, so they played that up for laughs.

 

[Iron Man]

It's ironic and hypocritical that they should chastise an actor for his drug use, when the character they wrote for him was an alcoholic, or borderline anyway, and they made that a 'cool' and 'amusing' aspect of his character.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have been concerned about his drug use, especially if it was dangerous, but don't go making an addiction to another drug on the show seem hip and cool just because it is legal and, as a result, socially acceptable. Especially considering that legal drug kills more people than any illegal drug.

edit: I was always really surprised that they had the character talking about getting drunk, on his way to the pub to get drunk, talking about the night before when he was drunk, or nursing a hangover, with none of the usually holier than thou Buffy/Angel alumni digging him up about it, but of course he was Irish, so they played that up for laughs.

Having just watched all of Doyle's episodes, I don't think he was ever portrayed as being a borderline alcoholic. There were a few references to him drinking a lot, but not enough to suggest that he was addicted. Plus, episodes like "Beer Bad" and "Something Blue" make a pretty clear argument against abusing alcohol.