Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel the Vampire

[Nemi]

Yes. It's just Cordy, Wes and Angel now right?

 

[Iron Man]

Yes. It's just Cordy, Wes and Angel now right?

Yeah, with Kate helping out on occasion too.

Talking of adding new team members, I feel like I missed something with Tara joining the Scoobies. She just seems to have been inducted and met everyone (apart from Buffy, who she met in Faith's body) offscreen. I like her so far, but the way she's just dropped into the gang doesn't quite seem right. Maybe once she's more integrated, I'll get used to it. She and Anya are still mostly on the outskirts of the group.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Ya Willow kind of just drags her along to Scooby stuff. But her and Anya wont really feel that integrated until Season5.

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

Until Orpheus in season 4 Five by Five was my favourite ep ever and still contains my favourite moment, Wes dropping the knife, it is just incredible. And what's more the next episode is almost as wonderful.
Rest assured Wes' character development over the next 4 seasons will leave you utterly speechless with delight. And there are some great changes afoot in the make up of AI.
Tara and Anya's integration into the Scoobies is slow but well worthwhile as you'll find out as we go, once again, character development galore! In some ways the fact that Anya and Tara are initially the outsiders in the group sometimes works to their advantage

PEACE OUT

Spoiler

The Good;
It's bad taste but love the 'God is nowhere, Jasmine is the way' sign outside the church. Also love Jasmine picking up the car and love Connor killing her. Angel's quest is also good although the lack of budget shows. It's a small moment but I adore the scene where the blonde reporter is awestruck that Jasmine knows her name, just the little look of exasperation Gina Torres gives is priceless. Plus HERE's LILAH!
The Bad;
Note that when the Guardsmen are clustered around the captive AI the only one without his face covered is the one who Jasmine later speaks through (scene shot out of order?). Angel aside the rest of AI just seem to spend all their time locked in the cellar and don't contribute much. If CC is so precious to Jasmine why is she guarded by exactly 2 cops with pistols and not ringed with troops and tanks? How come the guy Connor tortures gives up his info, surely Jasmine's followers are prepared to die for her? (or has her power faded as she prepares herself for her broadcast?). Note that in the bridge scene the LA sky keeps getting darker and then lighter again between shots.
Best line;
Jasmine (to Angel); "You're not human"
Angel; "Working on it" (indeed he is!)
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Connor kills his 'daughter'. Do we really wonder why he's so screwed up?
Apocalypses: 5 not the end of the world by any means
Angel Cliches
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cheap Angel; 6
Fang Gang in bondage: Lorne, Wes, Gunn and Fred in plasticuffs
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 7
Gunn; 5
Lorne; 5
Fred; 3

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 15
Angel: 17
Wes: 7
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 6
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 2
Kills; one demon for Angel, one demon/human(?) for Connor
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 44 vamps, 59 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang;
Cordy: 4
Angel: 11
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1

Characters killed: according to Angel thousands have died due to Jasmine's actions
2255
Recurring characters killed;
9;
Total number of Angel Investigations;5
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 12
Wes; 2
Packing heat;
Wes; 8
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 2
Fred; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
The way Jasmine eats people is rather reminiscent of vore fetishism (beautiful women enjoying being swallowed whole by giant snakes, carnivarous plants etc). PM me if you want the link.
Captain Subtext;
Connor teases the rest of AI because they're now alone, obvious resentment from when they left him alone.
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
6,
Guantanamo Bay;
Angel tortures his way to what he wants without a moments hesitation.
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil
What the fanficcers thought;

Missing scenes;

Questions and observations;
The blonde reporter in the hotel foyer reminded me at first of Reese Witherspoon and then of Jenny McCarthy but it's neither. The dark haired reporter with the glasses also looks very familar from somewhere. How exactly does Angel manage to materilize exactly back in the hotel foyer? Is the orb programmed to home in on Jasmine? Surely if Angel appeared to everyone on TV worldwide he should be hugely famous?
This of course is an argument similar to that explored in Torchwood; Children of Earth, Jasmine would devour a couple of dozen people a day but if she abolished war, crime and poverty etc she would save millions (apparently 1000 children a day die in India from preventable diseases). But Angel says that the important thing is that mankind has to make it's own choices, learn from it's own mistakes. Interestingly when Angel talks to Jasmine on the bridge he even holds out redemption for her. Jasmine talks about wiping out Angel's species, does she mean humans or vampires? Ok she's pretty strong and can't be killed with electricity but if Connor can just kill her with a fist through the head she's not that tough (not compared to Glory anyway)? Or is that because Connor is her 'father' that he can kill her? Night of the Comet is referenced, a nice little sci-fi film that Joss cites as one of his inspirations for Buffy. Note in the bridge scene there's a company offering 'Facials' which Jasmine certainly needs.
Marks out of 10; 8/10

HOME

Spoiler

The Good;
Love the way that when Lilah moves at first she seems awkward, as though she's getting used to using her body again.There is just something endlessly, savagely beautiful about a black panther. Love Fred and Lorne dancing. Great fight between Connor and Angel and lovely ending.
The Bad;
Fred's submachinegun is obviously fake, she totes it around like it weighs nothing because of course it's actually just a hollow shell. You can see that the cops beseiging Connor in the sports store aren't LAPD, in fact you can see the word 'Boston' written on the side of their vehicles. Wes and Lilah never get the chance to say goodbye?
Best line;
Lilah; (of Wes trying and failing to burn her contract) "But it means something that you tried" (how BEAUTIFULLY does Stephanie deliver this line?)
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Connor pummeling the cop into unconsciousness is nasty although given what Connor's going to do next maybe he should think himself lucky he just got a few bumps. The terrified hostages at the sports shop are hard to watch as is Angel putting the knife in Connor and even more viciously yanking it out again.
Lilah is in hell and despite all of Wes' efforts she's going to remain there. So sad, she had her chance at redemption and she blew it.
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
Despite being nochalant about all that WR&H have offered him Angel is hugely excited about his big TV
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 13
Cheap Angel; 6
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 7
Gunn; 5
Lorne; 5
Fred; 3

Fang gang knocked out: no but Connor beats the suicidal cop unconscious
Cordy: 15
Angel: 17
Wes: 7
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 6
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 2
Kills; unless someone can correct me the only ep of Angel ever when not only does no one die but no one even kills anyone/anything?
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 44 vamps, 59 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang;
Cordy: 4
Angel: 11
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1

Characters killed:
2255
Recurring characters killed;
9;
Total number of Angel Investigations;5
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 12
Wes; 2
Packing heat; Fred with her submachinegun. WR&H seem to have invested in a lot heavier weapons for their new security force, maybe to stop something like The Beast ever happening again?
Wes; 8
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 2
Fred; 2

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
How gorgeous is Gunn's guide, Lacey? Knox tells Fred that WR&H have a dungeon. For prisoners or for S&M shenanigans? Lilah wants Angel to strip in front of her.
Captain Subtext;
It's a small moment but when Lilah refers to 'My Wesley' it just speaks volumes. Nice to know that when the chips are down the way to prove yourself to the girl you love is to cut her head off!
Know the face, different character; 5 Jonathon Woodward who plays Knox here was Holden Webster in the Buffy ep 'Conversations with Dead People'.
Parking garages;
6,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil
What the fanficcers thought;

Missing scenes; If this ep was 9/10 minutes over why can't we get Special Edition Angel DVDs with such footage restored?

Questions and observations;
The last we'll see of Lilah and that is SUCH a shame, Stephanie Romanov has been one of the best things in the series for the last four years. I'd love to see her in the comics (the female boss of the Dollhouse owes much to her, right down to her look). Who's the girl in the picture on the wall behind Wes in his office? WR&H's office now resembles a shopping mall. So is Sirk a genuine defector or a plant from the Watcher's council? Twilight? The Lineage ninjas? Wes has heard of the destruction of the Watcher's Council but probably been too busy to worry about it. Angel knows that Buffy will prevail against evil no matter what the odds. Presumably Gunn taught Connor how to make bombs during the last summer? Angel quite obviously gets the idea for Connor's retrofit from Dawn's origin on Buffy. Wouldn't you love to see Connor get together with Dawn? They have so much in common and it would be cool to see what their kids turn out like? Unless anyone can correct me we'll never see the Hyperion again either. Seigfreid and Roy are referenced, do they own the panther?

WR&H give the amulet to Angel. Now, are they doing this purely to thwart The First's plans or are they now aware that there is a SECOND vampire with a soul and that he might be the one that the prophecies speak off? Is this intended to gain control of Spike but Lindey get's there first? Speaking of whom in Dead End Lindsey warns Angel not to play WR&H's game. For good or ill here he ignores that advice and does exactly that.

Marks out of 10; 10/10, not so much a season ending but a pilot for the new series, a complete reboot. That said if Angel had ended here I'd be disappointed but it would still be a good ending.

 

[Iron Man]

I just watched "Sanctuary", which was amazing. It was so well written - Buffy, Angel, Wesley, and Faith all had completely contrasting perspectives and yet every one of them was sympathetic. Before that came Buffy's "New Moon Rising", which was also pretty brilliant, although I'm sad that Oz won't be back. At least he got a good send-off, and I'm interested in seeing Willow and Tara's relationship develop.

I'm really glad I decided to watch one episode of Buffy followed by one of Angel - thanks for the suggestion. Would you recommend doing that right up until the end of Buffy?

 

[Nemi]

I just watched "Sanctuary", which was amazing. It was so well written - Buffy, Angel, Wesley, and Faith all had completely contrasting perspectives and yet every one of them was sympathetic. Before that came Buffy's "New Moon Rising", which was also pretty brilliant, although I'm sad that Oz won't be back. At least he got a good send-off, and I'm interested in seeing Willow and Tara's relationship develop.

I'm really glad I decided to watch one episode of Buffy followed by one of Angel - thanks for the suggestion. Would you recommend doing that right up until the end of Buffy?

I'd say yes, though there aren't too many cross over events like that there are still small references that make sense if you watch them together.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Except I would say after the first 2/3 episodes of S6/S3 you dont really need to watch a Buffy episode/Angel episode since there really isnt much overlapping cross overs anymore. Hell by season5/Season2 the shows basically go their seperate ways. Only really need to watch a few episodes like that. And that would be 2-3 episodes.

 

[Nemi]

What season does [BLACKOUT]Willow appear on Angel? All I remember is the conversation she had with Wesley about the things they had done since they both saw each other which was hilarious.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Primal Slayer]

That would be Season4/Season7.

Wiki has a pretty good way to alternate episodes since there is a point where you should begin Angel first.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Buffy_and_Angel_episodes

And once you get to the first few episodes of S6/3 since no direct crossovers were allowed, DarkHorse did create a comic issue that depicts peoples thoughts of went on BTS of the crossover.

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

I just watched "Sanctuary", which was amazing. It was so well written - Buffy, Angel, Wesley, and Faith all had completely contrasting perspectives and yet every one of them was sympathetic. Before that came Buffy's "New Moon Rising", which was also pretty brilliant, although I'm sad that Oz won't be back. At least he got a good send-off, and I'm interested in seeing Willow and Tara's relationship develop.

I'm really glad I decided to watch one episode of Buffy followed by one of Angel - thanks for the suggestion. Would you recommend doing that right up until the end of Buffy?

You know if you can't get enough Buffy/Angel discussion you should also head over to the Buffy-boards.com, more fans than you can shake a stake at. But keep coming here too.

Personally I think it's best to alternate between the series because that's the way they're designed to be watched. Sanctuary as you say is magnificent but unfortunately Buffy's last appearance on Angel (barring flashbacks etc) But there's still plenty of mileage in the Buffy/Angel relationship. Byebye to Oz although we do see him one more time, it's a heartbreaker but I guarantee you'll fall in love with Tara

Oh my god, here we go, finished Buffy and now starting the last ever Buffyverse boxset! We are witnessing the passing of an era, 22 eps to go and that's it. Still that is the equivalent of 7 full length feature films
CONVICTION

Spoiler

The Good;
Angel vs the ops team and Charley Gunn/Harmony coming to the rescue. Plus Spanky! Also love the ritual sacrifice gag and Lorne's vetting of the staff (what would you sing?).
The Bad;
Disagree with Joss, evil people never believe they're evil, they always believe they're the justified victims.
Best line;
Goon; (after Angel blows Hauser's head off) "What about mercy?"
Angel; "He got the last of it"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Nasty disease pictures and a vile villain.
Apocalypses: bad for LA but not the rest of the world 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche; despite his cynicism towards WR&H and characteristic dourness Angel can't help squealing with joy at the sight of his collection of classic muscle cars (although his yellow charger looks horrible!). On the minus side note that Hauser note only packs a different weapon to the rest of his team but is the only one unmasked for much of the time to distinguish him from the others, such a Hollywood cliche.
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 13
Cheap Angel; 6
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 7
Gunn; 5
Lorne; 5
Fred; 3

Fang gang knocked out: not on screen but Angel get's knocked out by Caleb whilst visiting Buffy in Sunnydale
Cordy: 15
Angel: 18
Wes: 7
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 6
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 2
Kills; 1 vamp and at least 2 humans for Angel.
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 45 vamps, 59 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 10 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang;
Cordy: 4
Angel: 11
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1

Characters killed:
2255
Recurring characters killed;
9;
Total number of Angel Investigations; 5
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,

Angel Investigations shot: yep, Angel by Hauser's men
Angel: 13
Wes; 2
Packing heat; Wes' backup plan for the bad guy not getting acquitted is his .45 automatic. How did he get that into the courtroom? Angel kills Hauser using his own shotgun.
Wes; 8
Doyle; 1
Angel; 4
Gunn; 2
Fred; 2

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
The wonderfully named Spanky who has his own fetish website and lots of S&M gear to prove it. One popular fan theory is that this is the guy Faith used to dress up as a naughty schoolgirl for and let him punish her? He certainly has a bullwhip. When Angel asks if the gang heard about last night Gunn replies "You got lucky?". Harmony does a sexy little shimmy when she basks in the sunlight. Shirtless Gunn. Eve asks Angel what he'd like to have 'passing through her lips' (wait until Life of the Party and you'll find out!)
Captain Subtext;
Spanky doesn't spank men although he's fine with other people liking to (love the characterisation here, he's evil but he's not a bigot, spanking men just isn't his thing). Angel interestingly comments that he has NO problem spanking men. Hmmm? Hauser calls him a fairy.
As Angel walks out of the school we see a series of kids posters above his head proclaiming "Respect, learn, know, show"
Know the face, different character; 5
Parking garages; where Angel meets Hauser
7,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil
What the fanficcers thought;
Spanky a popular figure in some fanfic circles especially with Faith. In several slash fics Spanky has a slightly different fetish and Angel persuades him to come clean in a very different way.

Missing scenes;

Questions and observations;
LOVED Space; Above and Beyond, to my shame didn't recognise Rodney Rowland from it (he apparently was Gillian Anderson's boyfriend for a while, he was in the X-files ep with the Jodie Foster voiced tattoo). Remember 'Who watches the birds?' and thought it was brilliant although it actually has loads of dialogue in the flashback scenes. Also like "The Angriest Angel' which the writers of BSG also seemed to like as they freely adapted it for the ep with Scar the Cylon Raider. Loved Kristine Cloke and if they ever need someone to play Jennifer Connelly's sister (or indeed Megan Fox's) she's the girl which is pretty high praise in itself. Too bad they picked the most uncharismatic man in history to play the lead!
David does look a bit fatter at the start of this and his hair more bouffant than ever. Fries won't let his son read The Punisher comics, probably because people like him would be number one on Frank Castle's neverending hitlist. Personally I never noticed the effects of the Bell's Palsy on Alexis, I don't know about you? Love Wes bashing Feng Shui and Lorne's ascots (so that Andy can wear less makeup). Not so sure about his polyester suit look, he looks like he could be appearing on Wonder Woman. Is it just me or do American apples look lovely but taste like cotton? Interesting gag that both the Kennedy's and Bush famillies have made deals with WR&H. If you're going to bash politicians you should do both sides. Note the little flash of the black panther when the screen flashes away from Gunn. For a moment I thought one of the nick-nacks Knox places on Fred's table is the puzzlebox from Hellraiser.
Great to see Harmony back, in the pilot of Buffy and she'll be in the last ep ever of the Buffyverse too! Angel drinks coffee now, he must have taken it up since his Sunnydale days. Presumably Harmony can't really mourn for CC because she has no soul.
What Twilight Zone ep is Joss referring to? Lorne seems a bit interested when Spanky is mentioned? Why does Spanky put on his bathrobe even if he's hot after exercising? To hide the harness for the wire gag his stuntman is about to do? His choke hold is rubbish, a 5 year old could get out of it.
Is Hauser named after Cohegan's duplicitous henchman in Total Recall? Joss is a Law and Order fan, a show MT guested on. Wes know's Spike? They've never met as far as we know, maybe he read up on him after coming to Sunnydale?
Joss is a little bit conflicted over his political views. He seems a trendy lefty but someone has obviously pointed out to him that his goodguy characters torture, kidnap and kill for the greater good more ruthlessly than the CIA ever did. His assertion that such things are best left in fiction sounds pretty weak. He also seems pretty knowledgable about The Punisher, probably the most right wing character in the history of comics.
Marks out of 10; 8/10

JUST REWARDS

Spoiler

The Good;
I know it's sick but always laugh out loud at Spike looking at 'bucket-o-lawyer' and telling Gunn and Wes "Your man Novak, he's been, how would you put it? Downsized!". Such an unpleasant storyline yet really it's quite immaterial as this ep really is about Spike and Angel rather than some necromancer.
The Bad;
You can see the dark haired girl in the corpse showroom move slightly when she's standing behind Spike.
Best line;
Spike (looking around Angel's plush digs)"If a certain Slayer could see you now!"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Harmony telling Spike he can't be mean to her anymore because they're no longer dating. Oh that girl! Plus 'bucket-o-lawyer' (three buckets actually).
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 14, yep, bit bulkier but still looks good
Cheap Angel; 6
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 7
Gunn; 5
Lorne; 5
Fred; 3

Fang gang knocked out: Angel by the Hainsley
Cordy: 15
Angel: 19
Wes: 7
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 6
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 2
Kills; 2 humans and a demon for Angel
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 45 vamps, 60 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang;
Cordy: 4
Angel: 11
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1

Characters killed:
2255
Recurring characters killed;
9;
Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, Spike not really in the gang yet
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 13
Wes; 2
Packing heat;
Wes; 8
Doyle; 1
Angel; 4
Gunn; 2
Fred; 2

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Harmony is revolted by the thought of Spuffy "Slayer loving freak!". Fred thinks Spike is hot. The demon states that he considered other sorts of human bodies to inhabit but eventually he went with pretty as everybody does (anyone else think he sounds like Clem?). Spike suggests the villain is into necrophillia. Spike says he'd like to 'have a go' at Fred and that she looks like a 'goer'.
Captain Subtext;
Spike refers to Angel as poncey and beefcake. Lorne says he sees Depp and Bloom for the Angel and Spike roles but comments he sees them a lot. His remark 'I could sell that movie in a heartbeat' may be a hint at an Angel movie. Angel is jealous that Spike hooked up with his sexy, petite blonde ex. Spike points out that Angel now has HIS sexy petite blonde ex working as his secretary. Also note that when the Groxlar beast attacks Spike goes to help Angel.
Spike refers to himself as Angel's 'date' and says that forehead boy has a 'wide spotty ass'. How would he know? Later on in the season Spike refers to the intimate moment Spike and Angel share together much to the delight of Spanglers everywhere. BUT the moment in question could very well be the scene here where Spike is possessing Hainsly who has his fingers lodged inside Angel?
Know the face, different character; 5
Parking garages; where Spike meets Angel
8,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil
What the fanficcers thought;


Missing scenes;

Questions and observations;
Gunn smokes cigars? We've never seen him do it before and do we ever see him do it again? Note in the teaser you can just see Harmony's hand appear around the doorframe just before we cut to Sunnydale. The last time we'll really see Buffy proper in the Buffyverse. Love the flashback to Spike's going out in a blaze of glory. How come Gunn has heard of Spike but Fred hasn't? Angel is still in touch with Buffy who's now in Europe. Wes seems to have been informed of recent events but not the others? But even he hasn't been told of Spike's soul, everyone at AI keeps secrets. The Littlelest Vampire is mentioned, either a ref to The Little Vampire or The Littlelest Hobo.
So how does the medallion get to Angel? We know it's Lindsey but how does he know about it? Eve or is he maybe in league with Lilah? Angel knows a lot more about Spike than he rightfully should. He's jealous that Spike not only got to have more, ahem, intimate time with Buffy than he did but also that when Spike got his soul he was able to recover from the guilt in a matter of months whilst Angel tortured himself for over a century. Of course this was partly because Spike had help from Buffy and in some ways the rest of the Scoobies but also because he deliberately went out to re-acquire his soul and to be the champion Buffy wanted, he had purpose. And he had 3 years without killing before due to his chip, living more and more in the human world, forced to socialise with them and learning from the experience.
Marks out of 10; 7/10

 

[Iron Man]

You know if you can't get enough Buffy/Angel discussion you should also head over to the Buffy-boards.com, more fans than you can shake a stake at. But keep coming here too.

Personally I think it's best to alternate between the series because that's the way they're designed to be watched. Sanctuary as you say is magnificent but unfortunately Buffy's last appearance on Angel (barring flashbacks etc) But there's still plenty of mileage in the Buffy/Angel relationship. Byebye to Oz although we do see him one more time, it's a heartbreaker but I guarantee you'll fall in love with Tara

Thanks, I'll check that out.

I'll carry on doing that then, it's turned out well for me this season. It's a shame Buffy doesn't pop up on Angel anymore, although that was a brilliant way for her to go out. Glad to hear that Oz does make one more appearance, and I'm looking forward to seeing Tara being developed further (I still want to know why she sabotaged the demon locator spell).

I watched "The Yoko Factor" earlier. Although the Adam arc hasn't been particularly good, most of the individual episodes have actually been great. I loved seeing the Scoobies fall apart, considering how they've all been growing distant from one another since the season began. The fact that it was Spike that effortlessly caused it was fun to watch too. And then the ending with [blackout]Riley[/blackout] turning up at Adam's cave caught me completely by surprise. I'm guessing there's some kind of mental compulsion going on...

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Dude, i would be careful about going onto any Buffy boards if you want to avoid spoilers, because there is a lot of major developments over the next three seasons that could well be the headline of many a thread.

 

[Nemi]

^ That is actually a really good point. Just thread titles or even images on the site might ruin a lot.

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

The Yoko factor is a good ep, a good analogy of people drifting apart from their old friends at uni but still caring deep down. Did you note the scene where the scoobs start arguing and Tara and Anya walk off into Giles' bathroom? As the newcomers to the Scoobygang they have a few nice scenes like this. Get ready though, the next 2 eps are amongst the best in the season (and one of which makes my top ten ever)

UNLEASHED

Spoiler

The Good;
Especially love the gag of Nina asking Angel if he's Frankenstein and Angel self-consciously rubbing his forehead, Spike's taunting must be getting to him. Nice final scene with Angel making sure to anchor himself to the world once more by hanging out with his friends. The Hyperion has also not been forgotten and a sly dig at Scientology.
The Bad;
A little trite that they give the cryptozoologist to the cult to eat but then abolish the club?
Best line;
Nina; "Angel, he saves a lot of girls?"
Fred; "Girls, guys, puppies, he's pretty much an equal opportunity saver" (presumably Fred has been told of Angel's Orpheus flashback)
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Nasty scenes with Nina about to be eaten alive
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 14,
Cheap Angel; 7 Lorne remarks that hell has frozen over when Angel says their food is on him
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 7
Gunn; 5
Lorne; 5
Fred; 3

Fang gang knocked out: Fred by the kidnappers
Cordy: 15
Angel: 19
Wes: 7
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 6
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 3
Kills; Angel kills one werewolf.
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 45 vamps, 60 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang;
Cordy: 4
Angel: 11
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1

Characters killed:
2255
Recurring characters killed;
9;
Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, Spike noticeably absent from the gang at the beginning.
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,

Angel Investigations shot: Angel by the security guards
Angel: 14
Wes; 2
Packing heat; Wes with a pistol and unusually Gunn with a shotgun
Wes; 9
Doyle; 1
Angel; 4
Gunn; 3
Fred; 2

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Nina quite reasonably suspects Angel to be a psycho rapist. Well, not lately. Nina naked and chained (anyone else think she looks a little like Sharon Stone?). A fellow student calls and says he missed Nina in the life drawing class which implies she does nude modelling (she certainly has the figure for it).
Captain Subtext;
Wes not so subtly jealous of Knox whom Fred refers to as being 'Under me' and 'On top of'. The comparison of Angel to the werewolf is clear, he cut himself off from humanity to avoid temptation but ended up losing all value for people and lost his human side anyway, just as Angel might have if Doyle hadn't come along.
Know the face, different character; 5
Parking garages;
8,
Guantanamo Bay;
Angel once again tortures ruthlessly
Buffy characters on Angel; 16. It would have been nice if Caine the bounty hunter had shown up but as the actor had also played Sajhan maybe that was impractical.
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil
What the fanficcers thought;
Plenty of fic where Oz shows up in LA to help Nina out with what he's learned, if ever there was an ep for him to re-occur on Angel this was it.

Missing scenes;

Questions and observations;
Lorne's reading not too good lately. Here's a good game for you, match the car to the AI member in the opening scene. The guys refer to being at WR&H for a month. Does Angel detect the werewolf by his scent? He's met one before, Oz in Phases. Spike still lies a lot. Different werewolf makeup than what we see in Buffy and thank god, much more impressive! Note though that Nina has amnesia for her first few transformations just as Oz had. Note it's Lorne who figures out how to find Nina. When Fred tells Nina that Angel was seeing someone does that mean CC or Buffy? Lorne makes an 'extra weight' remark of Angel, is that a joke on DB? Wes refers to the Initiative or whatever they call themselves nowadays.
Marks out of 10; 7/10, enjoyable standalone ep, reminds you of the sort of thing they used to do in season 1

HELLBOUND

Spoiler

The Good;
Great villain, some great Spike stuff and an all round great premise
The Bad;
?
Best line;
Angel (to frozen in time Pavayne) "Don't worry I had them give you a window"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Gory as hell, how did this not get an 18 rating?
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
In disguise; 8
DB/JM get's his shirt off; 15, Naked Spike.
Cheap Angel; 7
Subverting the cliche; Gunn and Wes always assumed Spike was going to hell
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 7
Gunn; 5
Lorne; 5
Fred; 3

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 15
Angel: 19
Wes: 7
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 6
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 3
Kills;
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 45 vamps, 60 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang;
Cordy: 4
Angel: 11
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1

Characters killed: poor Claire
2256
Recurring characters killed;
9;
Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, .
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 14
Wes; 2
Packing heat;
Wes; 9
Doyle; 1
Angel; 4
Gunn; 3
Fred; 2

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Gunn likes Eve's lovely friend, Claire the mystic. Too bad she doesn't last long. Spike spies voyeuristically on Fred in the shower.
Captain Subtext;
Apparently Spike materialises beside Gunn in the toilet and makes remarks about his penis. What sort of remarks? Claire suggests that Fred and she hold hands if Fred is lonely. Pavayne describes Spike as a 'Little Nancy still crying for his mother', well he's got the last bit right as 'Lies My Parents Told Me Proved'.
Know the face, different character; 5
Parking garages;
8,
Guantanamo Bay;
WR&H show some REAL inefinite detention
Buffy characters on Angel; 16.
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil
What the fanficcers thought;

Missing scenes;

Questions and observations;
Of course the term Reaper is another supernatural series and he too sends souls to hell. Mercedes McNab guest-starred and at one point the devil goes 'Ooohhh Buffy' when handing Sam a stake to recapture an evil soul who thinks she's a vampire (because there are no vampires in the Reaperverse). Spike refers to the King's English as he's seen 2 Queens in his time (Victoria and Elizabeth 2nd) and 4 kings (Edward 7th, George 5th, Edward 8th, George 6th). Spike calls Angel 'Liam', he knows his backstory. Angel likes Spike's poems, did he continue to write AFTER he became a vampire? Spike suspects that it may be the First Evil tormenting him which seems logical. Spike also says he's been a ghost for months which gives us some timeframe. Love to have seen Lee or some of the other casualties from WR&H over the years as Reaper's puppets. In many ways I think they try to cast Fred as the team glamourpuss but she doesn't really cut the mustard in that regard, Amy Acker a beautiful woman but just doesn't compare to CC, Buffy, Faith etc. Very Christian idea of hell. Eve is actually quite heroic here. Very little Lorne, he's really sidelined this season even if he's now a regular. The fate of Pavayne is very reminiscent of the fate of the 'Family of Blood' in the Dr Who ep of the same name (possibly the best ep ever?), both it and Torchwood drawing a LOT from Buffy and Angel (Angel sunk to the bottom of the ocean by his son, Capt Jack buried alive by his brother). So what happens to Pavayne AFTER the fall of WR&H at the end of the season? When Pavayne says that 'There's hope for you yet boy' when Spike has the choice of being human or rescuing Fred does he mean good Spike or evil Spike? Presumably Fred told Spike about Angel's Manilow obsession?
Marks out of 10; 9/10 very strong ep, great villain, truly creepy and excellent performance from JM

 

[Iron Man]

"Primeval" was a good end to the Initiative storyline and although Adam was a pretty poor villain, his final confrontation with the composite Buffy was very well done. It's a shame that arc didn't quite come together; I would much rather have had the focus remain on the Initiative, and while Adam was a good concept, he just didn't work in execution. I wasn't keen on how his connection to Riley was explored either. There was a strong thematic link between them, but it was kind of lost amidst a lot of exposition about mind-controlling chips and Adam's plan. To sum up, like much of Season 4, the episode was great while the overall arc struggled a little bit.

Where this season did excel, though, was the character dynamics, so I'm glad these were brought to the forefront in the brilliant - but completely bizarre - "Restless". That was definitely one of my favourite episodes so far. I think it may need a few rewatches to be understood completely though.

Angel has been really good so far as well, although I am getting a bit bored of the done-in-one, case of the week structure. "Blind Date" was really entertaining. I hope we get to see more of Wolfram & Hart, especially Lindsay now that he got himself promoted.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Aye, Angel only really found itself as a series in s2, when they start doing the season long plot arcs, you are in for a real treat when that gets going. s1 does begin to lay down the pieces for that though, and has a truly fantastic season finale.

s1 can be hit and miss, but there are some damn fine hits in there, the ep 'Warzone' has one of the best superhero action sequences I have seen in any tv or movie, nothing major in sfx, just a really well done extended sequence that is very exciting.

I fell on my ass trying to copy one of it's moments in real life involving a lampost.

 

[henzINNIT]

"Primeval" was a good end to the Initiative storyline and although Adam was a pretty poor villain, his final confrontation with the composite Buffy was very well done. It's a shame that arc didn't quite come together; I would much rather have had the focus remain on the Initiative, and while Adam was a good concept, he just didn't work in execution. I wasn't keen on how his connection to Riley was explored either. There was a strong thematic link between them, but it was kind of lost amidst a lot of exposition about mind-controlling chips and Adam's plan. To sum up, like much of Season 4, the episode was great while the overall arc struggled a little bit.

Aye. Maggie Walsh was originally going to be around much longer as the season's villain, but the actress decided to move on and she was killed off early.

 

[Iron Man]

Aye, Angel only really found itself as a series in s2, when they start doing the season long plot arcs, you are in for a real treat when that gets going. s1 does begin to lay down the pieces for that though, and has a truly fantastic season finale.

s1 can be hit and miss, but there are some damn fine hits in there, the ep 'Warzone' has one of the best superhero action sequences I have seen in any tv or movie, nothing major in sfx, just a really well done extended sequence that is very exciting.

I fell on my ass trying to copy one of it's moments in real life involving a lampost.

"War Zone" was great and definitely had some brilliant action scenes. I liked Gunn too, so I'm glad he's popped up in both episodes since then. You were right about having a fantastic finale as well - I just watched it and loved every minute. I can't believe they raised [blackout]Darla[/blackout]!

Aye. Maggie Walsh was originally going to be around much longer as the season's villain, but the actress decided to move on and she was killed off early.

Really? That's a shame, I think she would've made a far more compelling villain than Adam. Plus her connection to Riley was a lot more organic and understandable than Adam's.

 

[Iron Man]

Erm, I just finished "Buffy vs Dracula" and...

...huh?

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

Erm, I just finished "Buffy vs Dracula" and...

...huh?

Yeah, what exactly happened between Buffy and Dracula after the camera pulled away? Come to think of that what happened between Dracula and Joyce? Those Summer girls and their attraction to bad boys, honestly!
And I see little Dawnie's been going into big sister Buffy's room again, that girl, she'll never change.

Yeah Restless is brilliant, definitely makes my top ten. The only bad point was that this is the last time we'll ever see Oz, awwwww!
Overall season 4 would have been better if Walsh had hung around for longer, we could have had Giles and her facing off their proteges against one another, mysticism vs mad science. 4 is one of the weaker seasons as is Angel season 1 but don't worry they abandon the client of the week and get some major arc soon plus plenty of WR&H. And Darla in a box, bet you can't order that on eBay!

LIFE OF THE PARTY

Spoiler

The Good;
Great acting from Andy Hallet, really showing some range here. Love the characterisation of Sebassis, he's like a demonic Noel Coward. "Yes, yes, sycophants writhe before me, you disgust me!"
The Bad;
Why do Knox and co keep referring to last years party? I thought the Beast killed everyone except Lilah? Were they brought in from WR&H branches in other cities? Obviously this ep owes a lot to the Buffy ep Something Blue with the Lorne storyline thrown in. The monster Lorne just looks stupid, reminds me of Dr Jekyll from League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.
Best line;
Harmony; (of Angel's leadership)"Good luck! Morale here stinks. Everyone thinks you suck!"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
The Pee-Pee demon is SUCH a yucky concept. Equally Gunn staking his territory is eugghh! Personally I always found lack of sleep the worst torture imagineable.
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
In disguise; 8
DB/JM get's his shirt off; 17, naked Angelx2
Cheap Angel; 7
Subverting the cliche;
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 7
Gunn; 5
Lorne; 5
Fred; 3

Fang gang knocked out: Lorne for about a month
Cordy: 15
Angel: 19
Wes: 7
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 7
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 3
Kills;
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 45 vamps, 60 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang; Lorne's id monster
Cordy: 4
Angel: 11
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1
Lorne; 1

Characters killed:
2256
Recurring characters killed;
9;
Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, .
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 14
Wes; 2
Packing heat;
Wes; 9
Doyle; 1
Angel; 4
Gunn; 3
Fred; 2

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Eve and Angel, wonder what Lindsey made of THAT! Got his job and his girl!
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve
Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Voyeur Eve spies on naked Angel in the shower. She wonder if Angel needs some 'hands on' gentlemen's time. Harmony dancing! MMMMMMmmmm! Mercedes sure can cut a rug! Spike refers to Harmony as Angel's chippy just as CC did with the Furies. Angel considers Eve's quite lovely dress to be 'banging it out to the cheap seats'. Eve and Angel get it on big time, even with Lorne and Spike still IN THE ROOM! Eve has had sex under the 'great roofie spirit' before (maybe she ran into RJ's brother or dad?)
Captain Subtext;
Eve comments that Angel takes a long shower 'for a guy'. Sebassis strokes the PP demon affectionately. Lorne talks about jacuzzi strategy sessions. Fred and Wes start coming together. Gunn stakes his territory on Angel's chair, does this mean he wants to replace him?
Know the face, different character; 5
Parking garages;
8,
Guantanamo Bay
Buffy characters on Angel; 16.
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil
What the fanficcers thought;
Not a lot, Eve/Angel actually less popular a pairing than even Connor/Cordy

Missing scenes;

Questions and observations;
Lorne now loves Harmony and vice versa. He refers to Angel as Top Cat. Note Spike is now included in the AI meetings. Harmony now plays the CC role of saying what's true but what no one wants to say. Angel is a hockey fan as is DB. Who's raggedy Anne? They certainly do celebrate Halloween in England although not to the same degree as in America (in fact it's more celebrated in America than anywhere else including Ireland where it originiates from). Fred appear to be a violent drunk, good thing she stuck with cannabis. Wes' dancing has got a lot better since She.
Marks out of 10; 7/10 fun, nice to see Lorne get some decent screen time

THE CAUTIONARY TALE OF NUMERO CINCO

Spoiler

The Good;
Love the return of the brothers and love the idea of El Diablo Robotico, we MUST see that in the Angel comics some time. Love Angel's cadiallac and the ref to Holland Manners.
The Bad;
Angel seems very rough with No5 at his apartment, he could have killed him! Don't you think Angel's rather full of himself about being the hero.
Best line;
Angel; "Wes, did you ever hear about the devil building a robot?"
Wes; "Ah, el diablo robotico!"
Angel; "No one ever tells me anything"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Hearts cut from bodies
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
In disguise; 8
DB/JM get's his shirt off; 17,
Cheap Angel; 7
Subverting the cliche; Angel's heart no good because it's 'dried up beef jerky'. No5 thinks Angel wants to drag him into the quest but actually just wants to give him some mail. After Angel's stirring speech No5 just jumps on the bus
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 14
Wes: 7
Gunn; 5
Lorne; 5
Fred; 3

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 15
Angel: 19
Wes: 7
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 7
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Faith; 1
Fred; 3
Kills; Angel kills the demon with a little help from his friends (or should that be amigos?)
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 45 vamps, 61 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies
Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 3
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang;
Cordy: 4
Angel: 11
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1
Connor; 1
Lorne; 1

Characters killed: 4+No5 victims, the security guards have to be the redshirts of the Buffyverse
2261
Recurring characters killed; No5
10
Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, Spike however is now coming along for the ride on investigations.
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 14
Wes; 2
Packing heat; Wes with his shotgun (nice gag about the weapons check)
Wes; 10
Doyle; 1
Angel; 4
Gunn; 3
Fred; 2

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast
Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve
Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine
Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Spike remarks he can't 'diddle his willy'. He again refers to Harmony as 'his old tumble' and is jealous that she's now Angel's pet.
Captain Subtext;
Angel remarks of 'the father will kill the son' to Wes who hasn't a clue what he's talking about. How much do the rest of the gang remember? Spike refers to Angel as a drama queen. Now of course Liam is the Irish version of William so maybe 'diddle his willy' has another meaning?
Know the face, different character; 5
Parking garages;
8,
Guantanamo Bay
Buffy characters on Angel; 16.
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil
What the fanficcers thought;


Missing scenes;

Questions and observations;
Great ref where the man who recruits number 5 is Holland Manners from season 2. Can anyone tell me whom the aging starlet Lorne is referring to? Wonder Woman referenced, this is at a time when Joss was planning the movie which sadly didn't come off (love to have seen ED or CC in the role). Very clear that Gunn is the most comfortable at WR&H. Angel's photographic memory again. Angel appears to limp some of the time, because of the beatings he's recieved or because DB's knee is giving him trouble? Note Spike knows how to defeat the demon through his poetic soul. Angel enters No5's home without an invite but does No5 dragging him inside count as one? So what happens the medallion after the fall of WR&H? Love to see it and the creature turn up some time in Fray.

Marks out of 10; 6/10, ok but not brilliant

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

"War Zone" was great and definitely had some brilliant action scenes. I liked Gunn too, so I'm glad he's popped up in both episodes since then. You were right about having a fantastic finale as well - I just watched it and loved every minute. I can't believe they raised [blackout]Darla[/blackout]!

When it first aired in the Uk, i missed the Buffy s1 ep that dealt with Angel's origins and Darla(when they killed her off), so at the end of s1 of angel I was like... whothehell is that in the box, what is the big deal about that cliffhanger?
When she became a major player in Angel s2 i recognised her from the Buffy pilot though, but i thought they had just added that whole origin cause they liked the actress, i didn't know it had been there since s1 of Buffy.

and Buffy vs Dracula...it was just one of those humourous episodes, I think they did that ep to ease any new viewers in before they kickstarted with the whole plot arc, because that pretty much gets started rightaway.

 

[Iron Man]

Yeah, what exactly happened between Buffy and Dracula after the camera pulled away? Come to think of that what happened between Dracula and Joyce? Those Summer girls and their attraction to bad boys, honestly!
And I see little Dawnie's been going into big sister Buffy's room again, that girl, she'll never change.

Yeah Restless is brilliant, definitely makes my top ten. The only bad point was that this is the last time we'll ever see Oz, awwwww!

I actually rewound the last scene because I thought I'd misheard it. I'm really confused...when it comes to twists, I can usually take a guess as to what's going on, but with this one, I literally have no idea.

It sucks that Oz doesn't make another appearance. But I am glad that Giles is sticking around. A lot of shows that start off in high school drop their adult characters when the younger ones grow up a bit, so when he said he was going back to England, I thought he was off.

 

[Iron Man]

When it first aired in the Uk, i missed the Buffy s1 ep that dealt with Angel's origins and Darla(when they killed her off), so at the end of s1 of angel I was like... whothehell is that in the box, what is the big deal about that cliffhanger?
When she became a major player in Angel s2 i recognised her from the Buffy pilot though, but i thought they had just added that whole origin cause they liked the actress, i didn't know it had been there since s1 of Buffy.

and Buffy vs Dracula...it was just one of those humourous episodes, I think they did that ep to ease any new viewers in before they kickstarted with the whole plot arc, because that pretty much gets started rightaway.

I remember being a little disappointed when Angel killed Darla in Season 1, so I am pleased that she's back. I think Wolfram & Hart have the potential to be fantastic villains as well, so I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with her.

The comedy of "Buffy vs Dracula" was a nice break from the usual high stakes of season premieres. Nice to see Anya make the opening credits too; I'm surprised Tara didn't.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Ah, i forgot about Buffy's little sister being introduced in the final scene of BvsD, so that's what your was about.

I have seen some hardcore Buffy fans say they hated Dawn , but i thought she was a good addition, and one of the best plot points of s5. It will be interesting to see how you feel about her as the series goes on, and the series in general, I think it's the best Buffy season.

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

Ah, i forgot about Buffy's little sister being introduced in the final scene of BvsD, so that's what your was about.

I have seen some hardcore Buffy fans say they hated Dawn , but i thought she was a good addition, and one of the best plot points of s5. It will be interesting to see how you feel about her as the series goes on, and the series in general, I think it's the best Buffy season.

I love my Dawnie, I love all the Summer's girls. Shocking thing now is how young Michelle looks, especially when you see her in Eurotrip and Maxim