Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel the Vampire

[Primal Slayer]

So just Friends and big network shows?

Pretty much, but even Friends is one of the few.

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

Pretty much, but even Friends is one of the few.

I always thought they got some money but not that much, one of the reasons Claudia Christian left Babylon 5 was they abolished repeat fees for the final season? Still, there's always travelling the world through sci-fi conventions, I remember Charisma Carpenter signing 2000 autographs at £20 a pop at one convention, even if she loses half that in fees/tax she could still do a few a year and live quite comfortably.

Actually I looked it up and it's not quite that simple, that's what the actors strike a little while back was all about;
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=307150

Frankly if they only got $1 a show they'd still be doing ok, an ep of Buffy get's shown in the UK 4 times a day so that's at least $1000 a year (after taxes) and then you've got to figure the show runs in maybe 50 countries worldwide and in large places like the US sometimes on more than one network, it soon adds up

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

Ok, watched the stop motion comic last night and LOVED IT!t: It was much better than I thought it would be, I thought it would be like those CGI Buffy porn comics you can get online which you can watch in slideshow form (in order to leave both hands free?) but it was much, much better, I laughed, I went AWWWWW! and I great big smile on my face, it was terrific. I just wish they could get the mouths to work better. The voices were for the most part ok although I'd like better matches for Giles and Willow. Especially love Giant Dawn fighting mechaDawn, all the Xander/Dracula stuff and Faith/Giles
Definitely buy the next set if they're doing them! I'll write a quick review of each ep as I watch them (don't worry, limit them to about 10 lines)

 

[Scarecrow_King]

you watch weird porn.

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

you watch weird porn.

Doesn't everyone?t:

 

[AxlsAppetite]

Maybe someone can help with this because it's been bugging me for a long time.

After Angel and Buffy made with the nasty, Angel's curse was lifted and his soul was removed. So when Willow put his soul back in him why was the curse still in place? The spell she used was just to restore not to curse wasn't it. Even if it was a curse again why was it still in effect the third time Willow restored his soul?

Also, orgasm=true happiness, dumbest thing I've ever heard. I never liked that.

 

[O'Haire]

Maybe someone can help with this because it's been bugging me for a long time.

After Angel and Buffy made with the nasty, Angel's curse was lifted and his soul was removed. So when Willow put his soul back in him why was the curse still in place? The spell she used was just to restore not to curse wasn't it. Even if it was a curse again why was it still in effect the third time Willow restored his soul?

The curse Willow uses is the exact one that was used on Angelus the first time. It's the only one she has.

Also, orgasm=true happiness, dumbest thing I've ever heard. I never liked that.

Orgasm doesn't = true happiness. That's just what everyone thought until Wes told him in Season 5 it wasn't, and the reason he lost his soul in the first place is because everything in his life at the time was perfect. And the chances of it happening again were very slim.

 

[Sawyer]

Yeah, sex alone had nothing to do with it. He had sex with Darla in season two of Angel, and his soul remained intact.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

He had sex with that werewolf chick, Nina, a bunch of times too and was perfectly fine.

 

[AxlsAppetite]

The curse Willow uses is the exact one that was used on Angelus the first time. It's the only one she has.

Okay. I wasn't sure if the spell was a curse as well. Now I know.

Orgasm doesn't = true happiness. That's just what everyone thought until Wes told him in Season 5 it wasn't, and the reason he lost his soul in the first place is because everything in his life at the time was perfect. And the chances of it happening again were very slim.

I know it wasn't as simple as that it was just so cheesy that he lost his soul because of that "one moment of true happiness". And then everyone kept referring to it as that. But it was pretty funny how he told Buffy she was no good in bed afterwards. That made me lol hard.

BTW, how does having a soul make you feel guilty? The way I see it when Angelus had his humanity restored shouldn't he have gone back to the way he was? A good for nothing drunken bastard. He wasn't a compassionate guy before why was he after he had a soul again? Obviously having a soul or not doesn't really matter. Look at Spike. He felt love, remorse and compassion even when he didn't have a soul and before the chip.

Or was he just a special case? Because I got to be honest sometimes I just ignore what going on when they start talking about their feeling and replace it with my own story.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Well he didnt kill when he was human so its going to wear on.him when he regained his.soul. He even killed his whole family.

Plus the whole one moment of true happiness is what he was never suppose to have. They wanted him to be.emo forever not be happy w his life. One moment of true happiness just leads to more which leads to him forgetting what he did and moving on so why not nip it in the bud the first time

 

[AxlsAppetite]

Eh, Spike was cooler anyways. He wasn't pissy and brooding all the time like Angel was. At least not for very long. Don't get me wrong I did like Angel, but he got on my nerves sometimes. I've never seen the Twilight movies but I imagine Angel in his brooding mood is what Edward is like.

 

[Lord]

Angelus and Angel seem like completelly different persons, not just the same person with one having a sould and the other not.
Other vampires kept their personalities, in fact, before he had a soul Angel acted more like Angelus than the Angel with a soul we're acostumed to

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

Eh, Spike was cooler anyways. He wasn't pissy and brooding all the time like Angel was. At least not for very long. Don't get me wrong I did like Angel, but he got on my nerves sometimes. I've never seen the Twilight movies but I imagine Angel in his brooding mood is what Edward is like.

Never would have guessed you thought that from your avatar?

But you're right, Spike is in many ways set up to be the anti-Angel (as was Riley but Buffy needs some monster in her man). And ultimately he is better, Angelus' soul is forced on him, Spike falls in love with Buffy then fights to get his back (possibly because it was Dru who sired him?). It's interesting to see how Angel grows in terms of his humanity in his own series.
As for Liam/Angelus/Angel, Liam was just a lonely drunken teenage buck (although kinda racist) but we don't know what he would have grown into given the chance. Contrast our Willow with VampWillow and DarkWillow?
No, never watched Twilight either but it does seem they're riffing on the whole Angel/Buffy thing but taking it deadly serious and missing out humour, irony and all the other stuff that made their relationship great.
One thing, after watching the latest season of Glee I don't think David has the worst Irish accent on TV any more!

 

[Primal Slayer]

Edward is way more awkword. But Angel/Spike/Willow were all different as humans then they were as vampires.

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

Edward is way more awkword. But Angel/Spike/Willow were all different as humans then they were as vampires.

Yes and no, you could still see traces of Willow and William the Bloody in their vampire counterparts. Not so much with Angelus but he is still motivated by Liam's hatred(?) for his father. And still a womanising drunkard

 

[Doomed_hero]

For the person who says angel seems like a different person when he got his soul back, its cause he has had 100 year of having a soul and brooded the whole time holding back the personality and seeking atonment for ewhat he has done. WithSpike the soul is new and he looks at things different then angel. When he first got it, he was brooding at first till he faced his past demons and moved on. The difference is Angel looks at his past as a motivation to do good and make up for his mistakes, Spike is a live in the moment whats done is done kinda character. It is only near the last half of angel do you see Spike start to relize he would have to face some of the evil he has done in the past. Plus Spike had a hard time coming to terms that he was at fault for his actions as a vampire, usally blaming Angel for making him a monster. Angel has come to terms that there was a part of him who loved the hunt and the kill and that he was a monster.

 

[AxlsAppetite]

First came the brooding, then he came to terms with it and was mildly brooding, after he feed on that dead cashier in the '76 he went into mega-brooding mode until he met Whistler in '96.

All I'm saying is Angel took his guilt way too seriously. But that's why he's a champion right?. He fed on rats for 20 years because he fed on a guy that was already dead. A bit extreme IMO.

Other vampires kept their personalities, in fact, before he had a soul Angel acted more like Angelus than the Angel with a soul we're acostumed to

This confuses me.

Are you trying to say Liam (Human Angel) didn't have a soul? Because he did, he was just a drunken bastard. Which is the point I was trying to make. Just because you have a soul doesn't mean you'll be a good person.

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

For the person who says angel seems like a different person when he got his soul back, its cause he has had 100 year of having a soul and brooded the whole time holding back the personality and seeking atonment for ewhat he has done. WithSpike the soul is new and he looks at things different then angel. When he first got it, he was brooding at first till he faced his past demons and moved on. The difference is Angel looks at his past as a motivation to do good and make up for his mistakes, Spike is a live in the moment whats done is done kinda character. It is only near the last half of angel do you see Spike start to relize he would have to face some of the evil he has done in the past. Plus Spike had a hard time coming to terms that he was at fault for his actions as a vampire, usally blaming Angel for making him a monster. Angel has come to terms that there was a part of him who loved the hunt and the kill and that he was a monster.

I think it was more than that, Angel had his soul forced upon him whilst Spike deliberately went out to get his back. Also Spike had Buffy and the rest of the Scoobs to help him and a couple of years living with humans and not killing due to the chip. With Angel he doesn't know what happened to him then he tries to get back with Darla, then he's a recluse, then after the Hyperion Hotel he enters his hedonistic phase, then after the diner incident he becomes the street tramp. Then Whistler gave him purpose but Spike already had that.
Plus, Spike is already different from other vamps, more human as the Judge comments, possibly because it was Dru who sired him?

 

[FTCBIRDMAN]

I'm sorry but saying Angel is anything like a vampire from Twilight is absolute blasphemy. He is the exact opposite. In that I mean he is an interesting character. Angelus was one of the worst vampires in the Whedonverse. Liam was a drunk and a womanizer but he was never a murderer. When he was turned he went on a rampage. He especially liked to torture and kill nuns and children. So of course he had a lot to atone for. That is why he spent 20 years eating rats because when he drank from the dead guy he felt himself slipping. The urge to drink human blood is always there and he has to restrain himself from drinking it. Thats why he spent years staying away from people and he never let anyone get close.

 

[Doomed_hero]

I think it was more than that, Angel had his soul forced upon him whilst Spike deliberately went out to get his back. Also Spike had Buffy and the rest of the Scoobs to help him and a couple of years living with humans and not killing due to the chip. With Angel he doesn't know what happened to him then he tries to get back with Darla, then he's a recluse, then after the Hyperion Hotel he enters his hedonistic phase, then after the diner incident he becomes the street tramp. Then Whistler gave him purpose but Spike already had that.
Plus, Spike is already different from other vamps, more human as the Judge comments, possibly because it was Dru who sired him?

I dont know I still call Spike out like Angel did that he only got his soul to get into Buffy's pants. far from his noble reasoning. And Spike stated many times in the series that he didnt really care about atonement. It shifted alitte by the end but he still says the reason he wanted the shanshu was so angel could not have it.

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

I dont know I still call Spike out like Angel did that he only got his soul to get into Buffy's pants. far from his noble reasoning. And Spike stated many times in the series that he didnt really care about atonement. It shifted alitte by the end but he still says the reason he wanted the shanshu was so angel could not have it.

It was more than that, he wanted her love and forgiveness. His not caring about atonement was more of his bluster. As for the Shanshu, well, maybe he just wanted his human life back?

 

[AxlsAppetite]

Spike won the fight for the Mountain Dew. Which makes him better.

 

[Doomed_hero]

eh thats debatable at the point angel was at in that point. He had just given up his one chance of having a son, lost a close loved one and was lost in the belly of the beast not really knowing where he was going. I say Angel wins if they have a rematch after cory set him on his path again.

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

eh thats debatable at the point angel was at in that point. He had just given up his one chance of having a son, lost a close loved one and was lost in the belly of the beast not really knowing where he was going. I say Angel wins if they have a rematch after cory set him on his path again.

Cordy gave him the mission back but Spike wanted his humanity more, possibly because he's less tortured than Angelus made Angel