Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel the Vampire

[lorenzovanmatte]

DEEP DOWN

Spoiler

The Good;
Wonderful to see Fred and Gunn as Connor's surrogate parents during the summer, would love to see that in the comics sometime. Love Fred's attempts to speak 'street' especially Gunn's little look when she says 'Word'.
The Bad;
The vamp Fred and Gunn confront gives them the info they want then tries to attack them anyway, please!
Best line:
Gunn; "2 coats of polish"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Fred is pretty vicious with the old taser! Also Linwood get's 'headhunted' WR&H style
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cordy's tatt; 10
Cheap Angel;
Fang Gang in bondage: Connor tied to the chair
Cordy: 5
Angel: 12
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 3
Fred; 2
Connor; 1

Fang gang knocked out: Connor and Fred
Cordy: 12
Angel: 15
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 3
Groo; 1
Fred; 1
Connor; 1
Kills: 2 vamps for Fred, 1 for Gunn and 2 for Connor
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 41 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 7 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 11 demons.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamps
Connor; 4 vamps and 1 demon
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 8
Fred; 1

Characters killed:
46
Recurring characters killed;
8;
Total number of Angel Investigations:3
Gunn, Angel and Fred

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1
Packing heat;
Wes; 6
Doyle; 1
Angel; 2
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Lilah and Wes
Cordy: 4 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah plus possibly Justine?
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Lilah appears to wear no bra. Wes keeps Justine as a slave girl, do they have sex? Lorne says give fluffy enough love, Fred wonders does he mean Gunn or some part of her?
Captain Subtext;
Fred flatters Gunn that he's the Alpha male of AI. Despite being his slave Wes won't make Justine feed Angel from herself, he knows that would cross the line after losing her sister. When Angel get's back Gunn tells Connor to stand by for his spanking. Connor warns the gang that Angel will turn on them which he will.
Goodbye to Justine who will change her identity, move to San Francisco and embrace her inner lesbian.
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
5,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
What the fanficcers thought;
Read a pretty good one once where Justine discovers she's pregnant with Wes' twins and goes off to rebuild her life, changing her identity, moving to San Francisco and becoming a lesbian. http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3071303/1/Whatever_happened_to_Justine
Questions and observations;
Hell of a long teaser, if you hadn't been following the series you'd be utterly lost. Note that whilst Wes is back at the AI dinner table there's no Groo? AI are almost broke, either Angel must subsidise the agency with his private income or they must spend all their time looking for Angel and CC. Vamps can exist indefinitely without blood but they go mad with hunger. Lilah mentions Mr Subarto, did she actually meet a senior partner? Do Buffy and co know about Angel's disappearance? Oddly this summer is probably the best time Connor ever has, he has 2 loving parents and a fairly normal life (as normal as it can be working for AI)
Marks out of 10; 7/10

GROUND STATE

Spoiler

The Good;
Wonderfully clever opening, you think Gwen's parents and headmistress are uncaring but actually they love her, they can just never touch her no matter how much they want to. Also love Angel's drawing and Fred's show, especially her little ghost.

The Bad;
Gwen is fab, the rest of it is pretty stupid truth be told

Best line:
Gunn; (about their chances) "Operation chance in hell!"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?

Apocalypses: 5

Angel Cliches

Inverting the Hollywood cliche;

In disguise; 8

DB get's his shirt off; 12

Cordy's tatt; 10

Cheap Angel;

Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 12
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 3
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 12
Angel: 15
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 3
Groo; 1
Connor; 1
Fred; 1

Kills: 1 demon for Wes
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 41 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 7 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 13 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 11 demons.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamp
Connor; 4 vamps and 1 demon
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 8
Fred; 1

Characters killed:
46

Recurring characters killed; Gunn dies for a few seconds but then comes back.
8;

Total number of Angel Investigations:3
Angel, Gunn, Fred

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1

Packing heat;
Wes; 6
Doyle; 1
Angel; 2
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Lilah and Wes
Cordy: 4 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Gwen RRRRRRRRRR! Love a bad girl in leather/PVC. And you can see her nipples through her outfit when she enters the bar. Justine described Lilah as 'incredibly loud' during sex and there's some belt snapping action between her and Wes. Lilah describes herself as Mrs Robinson and indeed Connor will develop a thing for older women. Gunn likes it when Fred is in charge. Gwen describes Angel as handsome and Gunn and 'Denzel' which certainly must have pleased him. Gwen describes Angel as a great kisser (the Furies were right) and sits astride him.

Captain Subtext;
Fred's plans include going to prison and becoming somebody's *****. She hopes her cellmate will be gentle (see also What the fanficcers thought). Gwen seems very close to her cute blonde Marlene Detreich-like female butler. Gwen calls Fred honey.

Know the face, different character; 4

Parking garages;
5,

Guantanamo Bay;
Angel beats the building plans from a snitch

Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony

What the fanficcers thought;
Read an interesting one where Fred does indeed go to prison and becomes someone's *****. Lucky for her that someone is Faith. Also the last appearance (or not) of Phantom Dennis. Read a lovely fic once where CC in 'You're welcome' goes to visit Dennis and tell's him that she loves him and it's time to pass over to the other side which indeed he does, his love for her all that was keeping him on Earth. http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3044478/1/Whatever_happened_to_Phantom_Dennis

Questions and observations;
Wes has his own organisation with 3 employees, maybe that's what Gunn and Fred are broke, he's taking their business. The Chandler auction house is of course a homage to LA author Raymond Chandler. Angel's 2 previous break-ins were in The Shroud of Rhamon and Choices in Buffy. Neither is very successful. The squatter camp Connor goes to is the old power station you see in countless movies and TV.
So why does no one wonder about Groo? Possibly because he let Lorne, Fred, Gunn know of his plans or maybe he's been in touch with them since?
Marks out of 10; 7/10 but only due to Gwen really

 

[Iron Man]

I swear I think you might have single handely brought discussion back to this thread

At least something good has come out of me being so late to the game with these series

I think season 5 doesn't have the grandeur of season 2/3 but it's a big step up from 4. Oz as a permanent member of Angel Investigations would have been priceless, I'd have loved to have seen him and CC hook up! (she always had a thing for guys in bands and men with a supernatural streak). Maybe one taciturn guy is all any show can take however?

I think it would only have been a matter of time before Cordelia got frustrated with Oz's sarcasm and Oz got tired of Cordelia's non-stop talking.

I've watched up to "Beer Bad"/"Rm w/a Vu" now. The latter was great, the former...wasn't. Definitely one of the worst episodes of Buffy I've seen so far.

 

[Havok83]

Season 5 had the best Big Bad in my opinion. Buffy fought a GOD! The end of Checkpoint when Buffy learned that was priceless:

Buffy - "Just tell me what kind of demon I'm fighting."
Quentin - "Well, that's the thing, you see. Glory isn't a demon."
Buffy - "What is she?"
Quentin - "She's a god."
Buffy - "Oh."

LOL...Seriously though, Glory rocked. I loved her humor and one liners. She was so much fun, yet so evil.

 

[Iron Man]

Nooo, [blackout]Oz[/blackout] just left He was one of my favourite characters, so I hope he comes back soon. I knew he wouldn't [blackout]be with Willow for the rest of the series because I know she's a lesbian[/blackout] - the last spoiler I know that I haven't actually seen yet - but I was really hoping that he'd stick around regardless.

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

Lorenzo are you reading the comics?

I did but I decided to stop at the end of season 8, it seemed the right place to do so.


HIM

Spoiler

The Good;
ALL OF IT! Just wonderful, love it to death, amongst many favourite bits have to be Dawn falling off the audience stands, Dawn's lapdance, Dawn's catfight, Buffy seducing RJ, the split-screen stuff, Spike and Buffy wrestling over the rocket launcher, Buffy subtly screwing Dawn over for RJ's affections, Xander's KISS plan for getting the jacket back, the list goes on!
The Bad;
Nada, it's all terrific! Actually rather stupid that D'Hoffryn has just 'changed his mind' and now wants Anya killed. BUT he might have just wanted her to suffer for a while or might be in league with The First? Then again the demon might be sent by someone else Anya wronged now that D'Hoffryn no longer protects her?
Best line;
Xander (reminding Spike of their 'plan') "Grab it!"
Women good/men bad;
RJ's dad used his enchanted jacket to seduce the girls (in fairness to RJ and his brother they don't know that, they just think they're popular because they're goodlooking football stars). One question that occurs, 23 year old teaching assistant Buffy seduces 16 year old RJ (statuatory rape in California) and it's every schoolboy's fantasy. Imagine if that was Dawn and a male staff member, what would we think?
Jeez!;
I know it's hysterically funny and a little bit sexy but Dawn's cheerleading routine just makes me cringe, you feel for her every time. Which of us haven't embarassed ourselves trying to impress the object of our affections? You also feel bad for Buffy when a distraught Dawn cuts up her outfit. Buffy implies that Joyce would be ashamed to see how Dawn is acting but rapidly realises that this is a step too far and takes it back. Then again when you look at Buffy and Spike and 'teenage' Joyce and Ripper on the hood of the police car in 'Band Candy' you wonder if she'd actually be shocked at all? Maybe it runs in the Summer's family?
Kinky dinky;
Dawn in a cheerleader costume (Xander hopes Buffy get's a new one), giving RJ a lapdance then has a great big girly catfight complete with hair pulling, scratching and rolling around on top of one another. Buffy puts on her plaid schoolgirl skirt (to make herself look younger?) and get's it on with RJ on the school desk. Buffy describes Dawn as a ****-bag/hussy and thinks should go down to the docks and wait for the fleet to come in. Is that how she supported herself in LA prior to getting her waitress job in 'Anne'? Or maybe why she no longer seems to need to work at the DMP despite her counsellor job only being part time? (for the cheap seats I am IN NO WAY serious! No more so than the bleached blonde Angel says Wes had sex with in season 2 actually being Spike or Willow and Cordy being in the closet together in School Hard means they're both gay so please don't whinge. Although come to think of it Willow....?) Buffy almost seems to indulge in ahem, self-stimulation when RJ walks away for the first time after putting the whammy on her. Xander thinks back nostalgically to the events of 'Bewitched, bothered and bewildered', nice to see Jenny, Joyce and human Harmony again (and the last time we'll see CC in any way on Buffy). Xander smiles at the memory of BBB, Willow looks uncomfortable whilst Anya gives a little look of jealousy. Xander confesses a sexual attraction to Dawn but feels guilty about it (although he says he misses when Dawn used to have a crush on him). Weirdly he says 'Daddy likes' even after he told Warren off for a similar phrase. Buffy says Snyder was always 'on her' and 'riding her'. Buffy alludes to porn star Anna Nicole Smith. Dawn thinks Buffy is hot and is seemingly envious that she has 'sex that's rough'.
Captain Subtext;
In a riposte to the evidence for being Bi Willow wants to turn RJ into a girl so she can love him. Then again Willow says her attraction isn't about physical presence which is interesting when you think of her later comments to Kennedy that she fell in love with 'A woman rather than women'. When Anya points out that RJ's 'physical prescence has a penis' Willow says she can work around it. Like Xander she confesses a sexual attraction to Dawn 'Right there with you buddy!". Spike is meanwhile back in the closet, at Xanders? RJ's brother was worried that he found poetry under his younger brother's bed. Spike seems fascinated by the 'Angel' figurines at Lance's house.
Guantanamo Bay;
Scoobies to the ER;
Missing scenes;
Apocalypses; 7,
Wheldon Cliches (with kind permission from Boo)

Scoobies in bondage: unless Buffy and RJ got up to some?
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 5
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 4
Oz: 1
Faith: 3
Joyce: 1
Wes: 1
Xander; 2
Dawn; 4

Scoobies knocked out:
Buffy: 19
Giles: 12
Cordy: 6
Xander: 14
Will: 8
Jenny: 2
Angel: 6
Oz: 3
Faith: 1
Joyce: 3
Wes: 1
Anya;5
Dawn; 4
Tara; 1
Kills: one demon for Buffy at Anya's
Buffy: 109 vamps, 62 demons, 6 monsters, 3 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot
Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demon, 1 human, 1 god.
Cordy: 3 vamps, ½ a demon
Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn+1 human.
Angel: 3 vamps, 1 demon, 1 human
Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie
Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans
Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1½ a demon,
Anya: 1 vamp and 1½ a demon
Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons
Spike; 8 vamps and 6 demons
Buffybot; 2 vamps
Tara; 1 demon
Dawn; 1 vamp + 1 demon

Scoobies go evil: not evil but mad with lust certainly
Giles: 1
Cordy: 1
Will: 3
Jenny: 1
Angel: 1
Oz: 1
Joyce: 1
Xander: 4
Anya; 1
Dawn; 1
Buffy; 1

Alternate scoobies:
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 1
Will: 5
Jenny: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 2
Joyce: 2
Xander: 4
Tara; 1
Dawn;1
Spike; 1
Anya; 2

Recurring characters killed: 12
Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce, Katrina, Tara

Sunnydale deaths;
99

Total number of scoobies: 6, Anya and Spike back in the fold
Xander, Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Anya, Spike

Xander demon magnet: 5(6?)
Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot: Buffy produces the rocket launcher Xander procured for her in 'Innocence'. You can't help but think that might have been useful against Glory and Adam and especially The Beast which AI are currently battling.
Giles: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 4
Riley; 1
Buffy; 1
Tara; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost: so exactly how far does Buffy go with RJ? Her blouse is off, her bra is on, she's straddling him but we've no idea what's going on beneath the skirt for either of them or what happened before Xander interrupted? Come to think of it Xander tells her to get off RJ but then just walks out leaving them to it (check out the little look Buffy and RJ trade, as if to say "We've still got time!") She later refers to him as her 'lover' so I'll put him down as a possible. Equally we've no idea what RJ and Dawn got up to before dancing at the Bronze but without any definite evidence (and RJ denies they did anything even though she was so hot) I think we'll safely assume that Dawn is still 'hymenally challenged' as they said on Clueless, even in the Bill Clinton sense.
Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes?
Cordy: 1?
Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 2 possibles, Dracula+RJ(?)
Angel: 1;Buffy
Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?)
Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca
Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley
Xander: 2; Faith, Anya
Willow: 2;Oz and Tara
Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vamp****e
Spike; 2 Buffy and Anya
Anya; 2 Spike and Xander
Dawn in peril; 13 but self inflicted this time. Again Buffy's love for Dawn seems to overcome the power of the spell implying a deeper connection between her and Dawn than just sisters.
Dawn the bashful virgin; 9 NOT ANY MORE! Joyce's little girl is all ****ted up and hot to trot! It's a bit much that Buffy criticizes Dawn's outfit considering some of the stuff SHE used to wear in season 1&2, the leopardskin miniskirt from BBB as exhibit A (and that was BEFORE she got hit with Xander's love whammy!)
What the fanficcers thought;
The cliche of an enchanted object or spell going wrong making one character irresistable to all is a feature of more fics than you can shake a stick at!
Questions and observations;
Note Buffy still drives Joyce's Geekmobile. Badly! Oz's old favourite 'The Theme from a Summer Place' is used for when the girls fall in love whilst when we switch to split screen the music get's very Charlie's Angels (who doesn't love a bit of funk guitar?). We know that CC doesn't have a sister but wouldn't it be wonderful if the head cheerleader was her cousin or something? Did RJ's brother know Daryl Epps?
If Xander was on the SDH swimteam shouldn't he have his own athletics jacket? Dawn refers to Monty Python's Spanish Inquisition sketch, been hanging with Xander WAAAYY too much! Buffy's hair looks very similar to SMG's porn star character's in Southland Tales.
Marks out of 10; 10/10, I know a lot of people don't like this one too much but I love it, in a pretty serious season it's such a fun, amusing romp, could only be better if Faith, Joyce and Tara were present. The first ep I watched this season and then immediately went back and watched it all again then watched it for a third time the morning after. All hail the pushy queen of ****-town!

CONVERSATIONS WITH DEAD PEOPLE

Spoiler

The Good;
All of it, pretty damn amazing the whole thing. In a pretty intense and serious episode I do like Dawn's fun anchovies song and dance not to mention her marhsmallow in the microwave (love to try that but then it didn't turn out too well for her)
The Bad;
The only problems I have is that there's no Xander and that the Cassie role was so blatantly supposed to be Tara. If it is The First that visits Dawn it's actions seem remarkably tame AND it seems to be able to move stuff with it's will which it can't do later. Also why put on the big show, why not just appear to Dawn as it did to Willow and Andrew? Maybe it is Joyce but the First is somehow manipulating her and only allows it to put over what it wants Dawn to hear? If it is The First trying to mislead Dawn why does it try to get her to leave the house?
Best line;
Holden; "Who knows, maybe I'll win?"
Buffy; (almost pityingly) "No, I'm the Slayer. You're not leaving this graveyard"
Women good/men bad;
We learn that Hank cheated on Joyce and that was the reason for their divorce.
Jeez!;
Holden hitting Buffy in the face with the virgin Mary statuette. Dawn getting all cut up. Cassie/The First's description of how she imagined Willow committing suicide.
Kinky dinky;
When confessing to Holden Buffy says that during her sex with Spike she felt she deserved to be punished which explains some of the violent/S&M nature of their relationship. Buffy says she hates the way vamps equate sex, pain, death and love but then as Spike said, they are evil, they should be treading on the darkside. Looking back on her previous boyfriends Buffy observes she sure can pick them, every one a doomed romance. There were rumours at SDH that Buffy was dating a really old guy but did this mean Angel or Giles? ("Older man, very handsome, likes it when I call him daddy") Holden says he is 'chatting Buffy up'. Spike effortlessly picks a hot blonde up at the bar. Buffy refers to Spike 'taking me over completely' and 'doing such things to me'. Holden refers to guy talk in 'nailing a girl'.
Captain Subtext;
So if Spike sires his blonde after picking her up in a bar does he do the same thing with Holden? Buffy confesses she feels superior to her friends and lovers but feels guilty about it. This suggests that Faith is actually the ideal girl for her as they're equal in every way. Scott Hope, Buffy's boyfriend from season 3 has now come out of the closet which must be a relief for her as it means their break up wasn't her fault. But apparently he told everyone she was gay which given her track record with guys might be the best option for her?
Note that Jonathon and Andrew actually want to be part of the Scooby gang which Andrew at least will achieve.
Guantanamo Bay;
Scoobies to the ER;
Missing scenes;
Supposedly we were to see Xander visited by Jesse and Anya by Halfrek but they couldn't get the actors which was a great shame.
Apocalypses; 7,
Wheldon Cliches (with kind permission from Boo)

Scoobies in bondage:
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 5
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 4
Oz: 1
Faith: 3
Joyce: 1
Wes: 1
Xander; 2
Dawn; 4

Scoobies knocked out:
Buffy: 19
Giles: 12
Cordy: 6
Xander: 14
Will: 8
Jenny: 2
Angel: 6
Oz: 3
Faith: 1
Joyce: 3
Wes: 1
Anya;5
Dawn; 4
Tara; 1
Kills: Buffy kills 1 vamp
Buffy: 110 vamps, 60 demons, 6 monsters, 3 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot
Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demon, 1 human, 1 god.
Cordy: 3 vamps, ½ a demon
Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn+1 human.
Angel: 3 vamps, 1 demon, 1 human
Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie
Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans
Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1½ a demon,
Anya: 1 vamp and 1½ a demon
Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons
Spike; 8 vamps and 6 demons
Buffybot; 2 vamps
Tara; 1 demon
Dawn; 1 vamp + 1 demon

Scoobies go evil:
Giles: 1
Cordy: 1
Will: 3
Jenny: 1
Angel: 1
Oz: 1
Joyce: 1
Xander: 4
Anya; 1
Dawn; 1
Buffy; 1

Alternate scoobies:
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 1
Will: 5
Jenny: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 2
Joyce: 2
Xander: 4
Tara; 1
Dawn;1
Spike; 1
Anya; 2

Recurring characters killed: 13 byebye Jonathon, with us from the untransmitted pilot who came good in the end.
Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce, Katrina, Tara, Jonathon

Sunnydale deaths; Jonathon and Spike's victim
101

Total number of scoobies: 6,
Xander, Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Anya, Spike

Xander demon magnet: 5(6?)
Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot:
Giles: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 4
Riley; 1
Buffy; 1
Tara; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost:
Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes?
Cordy: 1?
Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 2 possible, Dracula+RJ(?)
Angel: 1;Buffy
Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?)
Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca
Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley
Xander: 2; Faith, Anya
Willow: 2;Oz and Tara
Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vamp****e
Spike; 2 Buffy and Anya
Anya; 2 Spike and Xander
Dawn in peril; 13 once again but this time she deals with it herself
Dawn the bashful virgin; 9
What the fanficcers thought;
Loads of fic where Joyce's real ghost visits both Dawn and Buffy, how wonderful if we could see the mother we loved and lost again if only for a minute. Interesting to see Dawn in Ash from Evil Dead mode, once read a fic where Tara's family are actually Texas Chainsaw Massacre types and kill everyone in the season 5 Scoobies except for Tara, Riley, Willow and Dawn. However when Tara and Willow ressurect Buffy she finds that Dawn has now turned into a combination of Ash/Lara Croft (but still has both hands). Meanwhile Faith defeated the First and shared her power with the Potentials but was presumed to have perished in the collapsing the Hellmouth. But whose is that gorgeous female hand holding a scythe breaking the surface at the Sunnydale crater...?
Questions and observations;
I take it that the Dartmouth Holden refers to is a college in the US rather than the town in Devon? By the commentary we know that it isn't really Joyce who visits Dawn but her warning that Buffy wouldn't choose Dawn in the end turns out to be prophetic. Dawn's battle with The First(?) references The Excorcist, Die Hard (glass in feet), The Shining, The Amityville Horror, Poltergeist, Highlander and especially the Evil Dead films . Andrew says he found Klingon easier to learn than Spanish but then as an artificial language it would be simpler. 'Insane troll logic' again. Kit from 'Lessons' reccurs although offscreen. Someone in the Summer's house likes Mariarchi music as it was also on their radio in 'Quelled'. Lovely music at the Bronze, is that the same band as in Dopplegangland? Is Jason Wheeler the guy who won the class clown award in The Prom? Holden has studied 2 years of Tae-Kwan-Do which is SMG's martial art. Buffy refuses to commit on the God question despite the effects of crosses and holy water on vamps. Considering how much real horror there is in Dawn's life you'd wonder that she watches a horror film? JE refers disparagingly to Charmed on the commentary. Holden refers to the SD mental hospital which was presumably built after season 5.
Both Spike and his date smoke in a bar which I didn't think you could do in California. Buffy still suffers from the Slayer deathwish to a degree to judge from some of the things she says.
How old is Buffy? Holden says she's 21 but if she's 15 in season 1 surely she's 22/23 now? The girl Spike picks up in the bar reminds me a lot of Christina Applegate. Holden seems to be a remarkably human vampire but then people sired by Spike and Dru always seem to be. So this was filmed in a real graveyard? I'm not sure I'd like my loved one's grave used as a prop in a TV series, especially with Holden sitting on it? Dawn can do magic, living with Tara and Willow all those years must have paid off.
Apparently they had to cut 9 minutes off this ep. WHY can't we have Buffy Special Edition DVDs with all this footage restored and commentaries for all the eps?
Marks out of 10; 9/10, only failing to be 10/10 due to no Xander and no Tara. This one I watched 4 times, twice with the commentary

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

At least something good has come out of me being so late to the game with these series



I think it would only have been a matter of time before Cordelia got frustrated with Oz's sarcasm and Oz got tired of Cordelia's non-stop talking.

I've watched up to "Beer Bad"/"Rm w/a Vu" now. The latter was great, the former...wasn't. Definitely one of the worst episodes of Buffy I've seen so far.

Yeah I gave Beer Bad a 3 in my reviews which is the lowest mark ever. Although it does have a few funny lines and a great performance from SMG as the caveslayer. You do get to see Oz one more time in the series but he is sorely missed

Yeah, Glory is a great villain, interesting, funny and dammed gorgeous, SO much better than Adam!

THE HOUSE ALWAYS WINS

Spoiler

The Good;
Lorne's performance is wonderful and love Fred's excited squeal. The Vegas stuff is all great
The Bad;
The actual story is not that good.
Best line:
Angel; "Boy, Vegas was a lot friendlier when the mob ran it!"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cordy's tatt; 10
Cheap Angel;
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 12
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 3
Fred; 2
Connor; 1

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 12
Angel: 15
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 3
Groo; 1
Fred; 1
Connor; 1
Kills: 1 vamp for Connor and another human for Angel
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 41 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 13 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 11 demons.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamp
Connor; 6 vamps and 1 demon
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang: Destinyless Angel
Cordy: 2
Angel: 9
Fred; 1

Characters killed:
46
Recurring characters killed;
8;
Total number of Angel Investigations: 4
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1
Packing heat; Angel uses the guard's gun to kill the casino owners' assistant
Wes; 6
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 4 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Fred in her Lornette costume is a revelation. Hands up who else was thinking what a shame we don't get to see CC in the same? (and Charisma is a Vegas girl after all). Lilah and Wes have some pretty explicit phone sex.
Captain Subtext;
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
5,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
What the fanficcers thought;
Once read an interesting one where Angel introduces Elvis to the delights of wearing black leather whilst Elvis teachers him karate.
Questions and observations;
Angel in pinstripes, interesting look for him. Good enough, especially the musical numbers, glad to have the gang back together and Gunn get's to achieve his ambition, as indeed does Lorne. But you want them to get back to LA and crack on with the season. Wes seems quite happy to take AI's business when they're out of town suggesting he was partly responsible for their lack of clients during the summer. Also Fred seems to win pretty good at the blackjack table which might explain why AI's money problems seem to be over. Weird to hear Andy Hallet's commentary when you know he's no longer with us.
Marks out of 10; 6/10

SLOUCHING TOWARDS BETHLEHEM

Spoiler

The Good;
Like Connor's vamp hunting and some of the humour with amnesiac CC especially Gunn refusing to be a sidekick (having been the Alpha-dog all summer). For me the Wes/Lilah stuff saves this ep for me.
The Bad;
Much I'm afraid, especially the stupid looking client Gunn had in the hotel 5 minutes after he is unexpectedly back from Vegas. Also the vamp Connor sets on fire seems to burn very quickly compared to Dru and Darla who were soaked with a lot more petrol.
Best line:
Amnesiac Cordy; "I was popular. Well no suprise there"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cordy's tatt; twice, once when Angel pulls her off Lorne and once during the fight with WR&H's goons.
12
Cheap Angel;
Fang Gang in bondage: Lorne seems to spend most of this season knocked out and tied up to something
Cordy: 5
Angel: 12
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 4
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out: poor old Lorne really seems to be getting it lately
Cordy: 12
Angel: 15
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 4
Groo; 1
Kills: 2 vamps and a demon for Connor. At least one demon each for Gunn and Fred
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 41 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 12 demons.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamp+ 1 demon
Connor; 8 vamps and 2 demon
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang: amnesiac CC
Cordy: 3
Angel: 9
Fred; 1

Characters killed:
46
Recurring characters killed;
8;
Total number of Angel Investigations: not going to count Cordy just yet so 4
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1
Packing heat;
Wes; 6
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 4 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Wes and Lilah at it again (doesn't she think to shower after sex?). I actually think the whole dollar thing is utterly charming. And of course Lilah's right, she played Wes but he betrayed her. Also in a sign of things to come Connor grabs one of CC's breasts in bed.
Captain Subtext;
Lorne has been borrowing CC's lingerie for a 'friend'?
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
5,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
Questions and observations;
CC appears to think that she is actually a character in Alias which was Buffy's great rival at the time (but never came close despite Jennifer Garner's obvious loveliness and Amy Acker/Roger Moore guest starring). Gunn's fear of rats occurs again, Wes once again starts to take steps back into AI, it's actually Gunn who's more hostile to him than Angel (Wes can't help needling them about getting CC back only to immediately lose her again). Connor seems to be living quite well on the street but I guess if he survived Kortath (or however you spell it?) he can survive LA. And probably steals the vamp's stuff after killing them. He is lonely however and misses being part of AI. CC sings The Greatest Love of All which she also sang in Buffy's The Puppet Show. I freeze framed my DVD but unfortunately there's no one I recognise from SDH in CC's yearbook.
Marks out of 10; 5/10 very static, stupid demon, Lilah and Wes and CC's performance largely saves this one for me.

 

[Iron Man]

Yeah I gave Beer Bad a 3 in my reviews which is the lowest mark ever. Although it does have a few funny lines and a great performance from SMG as the caveslayer. You do get to see Oz one more time in the series but he is sorely missed

Only one more time? That sucks. I realised he was gone for good when Spike turned up in the credits instead oh im in "The Initiative", though. Do you know why Seth Green decided to leave the show?

 

[Nemi]

Wasn't that around the time that Family Guy first started to air?

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Only one more time? That sucks. I realised he was gone for good when Spike turned up in the credits instead oh im in "The Initiative", though. Do you know why Seth Green decided to leave the show?

Yeah, he was great on the show, there was a line of his I used a couple of times in real life, whenever anyone asked me if it was difficult to play the guitar I would use the Oz reply 'Not the way I play it.'

I imagine he left the show to concentrate on his movie career.

I think the best story arc in s4 concerns Spike, but I will say no more on that, apart from the fact that this is where his character development really starts to kick in.

 

[The Question]

I have a question for everyone here: A lot of people I talk to say Double Meat Palace is one of the worst episodes of Buffy if not the worst episode. I find it to be a funny and innoffensive standalone episode that has some arc significance with Buffy's depression. So, my question to everyone is, what's so bad about it?

 

[Primal Slayer]

Seth just wanted to do different projects. Sad since it did change the rest of Willows storyline and they planned to make Oz's storyline longer.

 

[Donut]

Didn't Oz show up in Angel at least once ?

 

[Sawyer]

In the Dark in season one.

 

[The Question]

In the Dark in season one.

That episode had a stupid ending.

 

[Sawyer]

What was so stupid about it?

 

[Donut]

What was so stupid about it?

Maybe he did not like the fact that Angel destroyed the ring ?

 

[Nemi]

I have a question for everyone here: A lot of people I talk to say Double Meat Palace is one of the worst episodes of Buffy if not the worst episode. I find it to be a funny and innoffensive standalone episode that has some arc significance with Buffy's depression. So, my question to everyone is, what's so bad about it?

I'm going to assume it was at least partially because Buffy was reduced to ''would you like fries with that?''

 

[The Question]

What was so stupid about it?

Yeah, it was Angel destroying the ring. Even if you take him not deserving it as a valid argument, the fact is that that is superceded by the fact that it would make him significantly more effective at helping people and saving lives. Like, I watched all of Angel with a friend of mine, and every time there was a complication due to sunlight or crosses after that, for about a season and a half, we just yelled "Well you're the one who DESTROYED THE DAMN RING" at the screen. They could have gotten rid of the ring some other way, like Angel fighting Spike and the fight being fairly evenly matched and Angel destroying the ring to make sure he doesn't get it.

 

[Donut]

Yeah, it was Angel destroying the ring. Even if you take him not deserving it as a valid argument, the fact is that that is superceded by the fact that it would make him significantly more effective at helping people and saving lives. Like, I watched all of Angel with a friend of mine, and every time there was a complication due to sunlight or crosses after that, for about a season and a half, we just yelled "Well you're the one who DESTROYED THE DAMN RING" at the screen. They could have gotten rid of the ring some other way, like Angel fighting Spike and the fight being fairly evenly matched and Angel destroying the ring to make sure he doesn't get it.

They probably could have also asked Willow to find some way through magic to make sure that the ring would only work on Angel & no one else or something like that. I do agree that destroying it was a mistake

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

Yeah, it was Angel destroying the ring. Even if you take him not deserving it as a valid argument, the fact is that that is superceded by the fact that it would make him significantly more effective at helping people and saving lives. Like, I watched all of Angel with a friend of mine, and every time there was a complication due to sunlight or crosses after that, for about a season and a half, we just yelled "Well you're the one who DESTROYED THE DAMN RING" at the screen. They could have gotten rid of the ring some other way, like Angel fighting Spike and the fight being fairly evenly matched and Angel destroying the ring to make sure he doesn't get it.

I think the idea was that it was too dangerous for anyone to possess ('My preciousssss'), that there would be an endless stream of Spike's, Draculas and Darlas coming to claim it for themselves and placing Doyle and Cordy in danger. Also I think Angel always feared if he turned back into Angelus it would make him practically invincible. It kinda was a contrivance but I also think it was a facet of Angel's redemption, that he was destined to stay in the dark until he had earned his time in the light and the ring wasn't it. Besides, as Doyle says the entire world is set up for those who live in the light, it's those in the dark Angel is out to help.
As for Doublemeat Palace it has it's good points, Anya and Halfyrek, Amy and Willow, some funny humour, Xander telling Dawn she could be the successful one in her career and support Buffy in life (which is kinda what happens in the comics) etc but above all it's just depressing, even Buffy and Spike's quickie against the dumpster is stunningly unerotic. I think if it had been Xander working there it would have been a comedy classic but we don't like to see Buffy doing it.

SUPERSYMMETRY

Spoiler

The Good;
Angel versus the demon and all the Wes and Lilah stuff
The Bad;
Surely the Prof can think of a less public way to get rid of Fred? All told this is a pretty damn stupid ep
Best line:
Angel (to demon who keep's fighting despite having been decapitated) "Come on, I'm holding your head"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cheap Angel; 5
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 12
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 4
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 12
Angel: 15
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 4
Groo; 1
Kills: 1 vamp for CC, 1 demon for Angel and one human for Gunn
Cordy: 6 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 41 vamps, 58 and 1/2 demons, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 12 demons+ one human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamp+ 1 demon
Connor; 8 vamps and 2 demon
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 9
Fred; 1

Characters killed:
46
Recurring characters killed;
8;
Total number of Angel Investigations:
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1
Packing heat;
Wes; 6
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 4 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Connor remarks that CC steals the bedcovers much to Angel's distress. Gunn mentions that Fred kept him up all night and was unstoppable.
Captain Subtext;
Lorne calls Angel 'sweetie' when he brings him breakfast in bed. Whilst Connor refuses to bring Cordy any pics of Angel he's fine with everyone else, even Lorne.
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages; yep, if I were Lilah I'd just take a taxi every night
6,
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
Questions and observations;
Really not good, silly plot and although there's some powerful emotional stuff really far below par. First time we ever see CC's parents. Now when we see Angel recreate the conference room scene at the Hyperion is that just a photographic memory or a spell he casts? Love the satire on the Angel fans, Angel referring to the 'chatty rooms'. Love Fred's Ripley moment, "I'm the *****!".
Marks out of 10; 6/10 and maybe that's generous

SPIN THE BOTTLE

Spoiler

The Good;
All of it, easily one of the best episodes of season 4, obviously with a debt to Buffy's Tabula Rusa but with a delicious spin of it's own. Unlike 'The Shroud of Rahmon' the framing device of Lorne with an invisible audience is terrific, he even breaks the 4th wall. If there is a favourite moment I think it would be CC declaring Fred as 'all neck' and Fred giving the 'mother of all shrugs'.
The Bad;
Only thing I can find wrong is that the commentary is not as good as you'd hoped despite having Joss and Alexis. Again though wouldn't Liam notice his lack of heartbeat etc?
Best line:
Gunn; "What happened to you man?"
Wes; "I had my throat cut and my friends abandoned me"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cheap Angel; 5
Fang Gang in bondage: poor Lorne gets taped
Cordy: 5
Angel: 12
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 5
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out: poor Lorne againx2 plus Gunn
Cordy: 12
Angel: 15
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 2
Lorne; 6
Groo; 1
Kills: Gunn says he's been killing vamps since he was 12 . He threatens to cut Lorne's head off although we actually know that wouldn't kill him. Another vamp for Connor who is starting to catch his old man up.
Cordy: 6 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 41 vamps, 57 and 1/2 demons, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 12 demons.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamp+ 1 demon
Connor; 9 vamps and 2 demon
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang: teenage everyone
Cordy: 4
Angel: 10
Fred; 2
Wes; 1
Gunn; 1

Characters killed:
46
Recurring characters killed;
8;
Total number of Angel Investigations:
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1
Packing heat;
Wes; 6
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 4 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Wes' projecting stake and Fred's fear of aliens probing her helpless naked body. Liam is all for the sinful desires. Connor get's felt up by a hooker and CC promises to sleep with him if he kills Angel. CC is delighted with her bountiful adult breasts, Fred disappointed she seems not to have much. CC says 'Hello salty goodness' when she sees Liam which is exactly what she said about Angel when they first meet. CC in her towel. She thinks that danger makes her hot, she said the same about Xander and her in 'Dopplegangland'. CC thinks Angel is deviant because he didn't try anything with her.
Captain Subtext;
CC thinks Gunn and Wes wrestling is homo-erotic. CC wonders how Wes got the title 'head boy'? Note CC treats Fred EXACTLY as she treated season 1 Willow.
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages;
6,
Guantanamo Bay;
Liam is alarmingly racist (as indeed is Keith Topping in his book) both against Wesley as an Englishman and Gunn as a slave. Ironically he later comments that people are ganging up upon him because he's different and he accuses THEM of being hypocrites. CC comments that she know's who's president and wishes she didn't. Weird, I'd have always thought of her as a right wing girl. Gunn suggests that if something looks wrong it should die which is a lot different as to how he thought in 'That Old Gang of Mine'.
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
Questions and observations;
Fred is a cannabis smoker. Maybe it doesn't make you dumb after all? Liam thinks the cars outside are demons which is exactly what C17th noblewoman Buffy thought in Halloween. Interestingly Wes refers to the Watcher's academy being in Hampshire which means it may have survived Caleb's attack on the London base and helps Buffy&co in season 8. Interestingly Angel doesn't trust magic, much like Connor. Wes is very Bond as has been commented on before. Gunn's fears that he's just the 'muscle' (the BA Barracus?) of AI once more come to the fore. Interesting to see him as an angry young man just as we saw in 'Double or nothing'. Some funny mocking of Angel's very poor Irish accent. Gunn votes that they don't put Wes in charge, a ref back to 'There's no place like plze grb'. Note that when Gunn goes for a weapon he instinctively selects his hubcap axe even though he's amnesiac. Note also Fred fondles the palms, Illyria later able to mind meld with them.
Lorne smokes again. Even though he's his teenage goof self Wes is still heroic, pitting himself unhesitatingly against a vamp to save Fred and CC and quite a good leader. Lorne tells Fred 'look into your heart' which is the famous line from 'Miller's Crossing', the greatest gangster film ever. Our first glimpse of The Beast.
Marks out of 10; 10/10 stunning

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

I heard that Seth left the series as he didn't really see that his character could grow much beyond just being Willow's boyfriend and Buffy's sidekick. He obviously parts on good terms though as he's willing to come back to do 2 further episodes after his departure as a regular.

SLEEPER

Spoiler

The Good;
Love the gag that Billy Idol stole his image from Spike rather than the other way around. Some very effective horror and some nice comedy with Anya and Spike .
The Bad;
Nothing bad but this is a bridging episode
Best line;
Anya; "If I get bitten I'm going to come back as a vampire and bite your ass!"
Xander (smiling) "Wouldn't be the first time"
Women good/men bad;
When Spike rejects her Anya fears she's fat? (One of my favourite aspects of Terminator;SCC was Cameron's attempts to fit in as an American high school girl which she largely mastered by remembering the phrases "*********e much?" and "Does this make me look fat?")
Jeez!;
Spike biting pretty coeds
Kinky dinky;
Naked Spike under the sheets. Anya suggests some kinky stuff with the stake and says unsouled Spike would have her upside down and halfway to her happy place when souled Spike rejects her. Spike has no problem picking up women who seem a satire on the Spikettes. Xander seems to have a pornographic magazine on his table when Spike walks out. The bouncer is happy to let a girl as hot as Buffy in the club for free. She describes Spike as sallow but in a hot way. See also best line.
Captain Subtext;
The vamp at the Bronze suggests she'll take the boy and Spike can take the girl or 'the other way around'.
Guantanamo Bay;
Scoobies to the ER;
Missing scenes;
Apocalypses; 7,
Wheldon Cliches (with kind permission from Boo)

Scoobies in bondage: Spike at the end for the first time since he became a Scooby.
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 5
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 4
Oz: 1
Faith: 3
Joyce: 1
Wes: 1
Xander; 2
Dawn; 4
Spike; 1

Scoobies knocked out: Xander by Spike
Buffy: 19
Giles: 12
Cordy: 6
Xander: 15
Will: 8
Jenny: 2
Angel: 6
Oz: 3
Faith: 1
Joyce: 3
Wes: 1
Anya;5
Dawn; 4
Tara; 1
Kills: 1 vamp Spike, 7 vamps for Buffy (will she reach the magic 200 kills before the end of the series?)
Buffy: 117 vamps, 60 demons, 6 monsters, 3 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot
Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demon, 1 human, 1 god.
Cordy: 3 vamps, ½ a demon
Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn+1 human.
Angel: 3 vamps, 1 demon, 1 human
Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie
Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans
Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1½ a demon,
Anya: 1 vamp and 1½ a demon
Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons
Spike; 9 vamps and 6 demons
Buffybot; 2 vamps
Tara; 1 demon
Dawn; 1 vamp + 1 demon

Scoobies go evil: Spike and how
Giles: 1
Cordy: 1
Will: 3
Jenny: 1
Angel: 1
Oz: 1
Joyce: 1
Xander: 4
Anya; 1
Dawn; 1
Buffy; 1
Spike; 1

Alternate scoobies:
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 1
Will: 5
Jenny: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 2
Joyce: 2
Xander: 4
Tara; 1
Dawn;1
Spike; 1
Anya; 2

Recurring characters killed: 12
Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce, Katrina, Tara

Sunnydale deaths; another 2 civies
101

Total number of scoobies: 6,
Xander, Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Anya, Spike

Xander demon magnet: 5(6?)
Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot:
Giles: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 4
Riley; 1
Buffy; 1
Tara; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost:
Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes?
Cordy: 1?
Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 2 possible, Dracula+RJ(?)
Angel: 1;Buffy
Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?)
Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca
Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley
Xander: 2; Faith, Anya
Willow: 2;Oz and Tara
Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vamp****e
Spike; 2 Buffy and Anya
Anya; 2 Spike and Xander
Dawn in peril; 13
Dawn the bashful virgin; 9
What the fanficcers thought;
Questions and observations;
Xander refers to CSI (another point against Normal Again being true). He also remembers Holden Webster from SDH referring to him as 'Webs' (but then he'd have gone to school with him longer than Buffy did). One assumes the harmonica player Buffy passes is The First as he plays 'early one morning' and The First knows what Buffy is wearing when it appears later. Aimie Mann is great and she plays one of my favourite tunes from the Radio Sunnydale album. Oddly the vamp at the Bronz speaks of her and Spike being 'soul mates'. Vamps in the basement are very Evil Dead. What's the First's plan for them, is it just building an army to try and take over Sunnydale?
Marks out of 10; 7/10

NEVER LEAVE ME

Spoiler

The Good;
Nice humour from Dawn and Andrew, a good fight and our first hints that Principal Wood is more than he seems
The Bad;
When Spike attacks Buffy we see a glimpse of his arm reflected in the mirror as she blocks his blow
Best line;
Dawn (on Buffy's illness keeping her off work) "Her exact words were 'I've got stuff coming out of both ends"
Women good/men bad;
Jeez!;
Spike feeding from the blood filled bag is horrible as is his little girl story. The Turok-Han is one genuinely scary beastie!
Kinky dinky;
Spike (of falling in love with Buffy) "I've had to redefine the words pain and suffering since I feel in love with you". Maybe he could just hire some dominatrix or something? Spike elaborates on his little girl in the coal cellar story implying that she was Dawn's age and that he did more than just kill her and her family, keeping her alive so she cried when he...because it would be no fun if she didn't cry (anyone else glad he didn't finish that story?) Spike implies that Buffy likes men who hurt her, he may be right given her track record. He also postulates that she needs that pain to do her job which is also what the First Slayer stated in Intervention and we will find out more about the Slayer's darkside in 'Get it done'. (Hell hath no fury...?)
Captain Subtext;
Warren asks Andrew to feel him. Andrew like's Patrick Swayze in Ghost. Willow declares "Tool talk not my thing". Xander declares that he'll be 'pumping' Andrew in no time. Note when Buffy and Dawn are fighting the Bringers they use EXACTLY the same fighting move at the same time, again more than sisters?
Guantanamo Bay;
Xander and Anya torture Andrew without remorse.
Scoobies to the ER;
Missing scenes;
Apocalypses; 7,
Wheldon Cliches (with kind permission from Boo)

Scoobies in bondage: Andrew is but he isn't a Scooby yet. Spike is.
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 5
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 4
Oz: 1
Faith: 3
Joyce: 1
Wes: 1
Xander; 2
Dawn; 4
Spike; 2

Scoobies knocked out: Spike by Buffy, Willow and Anya by The Bringers
Buffy: 19
Giles: 12
Cordy: 6
Xander: 15
Will: 9
Jenny: 2
Angel: 6
Oz: 3
Faith: 1
Joyce: 3
Wes: 1
Anya;6
Dawn; 4
Tara; 1
Spike; 1
Kills: presuming that the Bringers are humans score 2 for Buffy. Presumably Xander killed the Bringer attacking Dawn?
Buffy: 117 vamps, 60 demons, 6 monsters, 5 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot
Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demon, 1 human/1 god.
Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn+1 human.
Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie
Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans
Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1½ a demon, 1 human
Anya: 1 vamp and 1½ a demon
Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons
Spike; 9 vamps and 6 demons
Buffybot; 2 vamps
Tara; 1 demon
Dawn; 1 vamp + 1 demon

Scoobies go evil:
Giles: 1
Cordy: 1
Will: 3
Jenny: 1
Angel: 1
Oz: 1
Joyce: 1
Xander: 4
Anya; 1
Dawn; 1
Buffy; 1
Spike; 1

Alternate scoobies:
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 1
Will: 5
Jenny: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 2
Joyce: 2
Xander: 4
Tara; 1
Dawn;1
Spike; 1
Anya; 2

Recurring characters killed: 13 goodbye Quentin Travers, well intentioned but out of touch (which could well be the Watcher motto?)
Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce, Katrina, Tara, Quentin Travers.

Sunnydale deaths;
101

Total number of scoobies: 6,
Xander, Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Anya, Spike

Xander demon magnet: 5(6?)
Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot:
Giles: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 4
Riley; 1
Buffy; 1
Tara; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost:
Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes?
Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 2 possible, Dracula+RJ(?)
Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?)
Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca
Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley
Xander: 2; Faith, Anya
Willow: 2;Oz and Tara
Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vamp****e
Spike; 2 Buffy and Anya
Anya; 2 Spike and Xander
Dawn in peril; 14 yes although she's pretty capable of taking care of herself nowadays
Dawn the bashful virgin; 9
What the fanficcers thought;
Questions and observations;
Anya still pretty bitter at having been stabbed by Buffy in Selfless. When Buffy says that Spike needs blood Willow suggests killing Anya. I guess Triangle didn't resolve everything. Xander comes through as knowledge guy. The Spike/Buffy scene is pivotal, she keeps him around not just because they've fought side by side and she needs him to do her job but because she's seen what he's been through in order to redeem himself. He never hated himself before he had a soul because he didn't understand the value of self-worth. Many think that the central figure of the Buffyverse is Dawn, that at heart it's all about protecting her as the innocent. But in some ways Spike also has that claim, he lost his innocence and now strives to reclaim it which is perhaps the harder path? The Watcher's Council talk of losing their files, taken by Giles or Rutherford Sirk who later turns up working for Wolfram and Hart on Angel? Note even the First Evil can't be bothered to recall Andrew's name!
We have here the end of the Watcher's Council in it's familar form although individual Watchers such as Giles, Robson, Wes' dad etc survive to help Buffy and co in season 8. Note it's the London headquarters that are destroyed, according to Wes in Spin the Bottle the training school is in Hampshire so we should have a new generation ready to take to the field?
Marks out of 10; 8/10, season 7 kicks into high gear

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I've watched up to "Beer Bad"/"Rm w/a Vu" now. The latter was great, the former...wasn't. Definitely one of the worst episodes of Buffy I've seen so far.

See I really really love Beer Bad.

I found it so relatable as a girl who went to college, had her heart stomped on and turned to the 'foamy' comfort of beer for a while.

And I love the tongue in cheek exaggeration of beer turning people into wordless impulsive cavemen.

Best points:

- xander as a barman in way over his head at a busy student bar (been there mate!)
- Buffy having fun for once, and just indulging in accepting compliments and admiration from a bunch of guys
- Willow pretending to be enthrawled by Parker and then calling him out
- Buffy's response to Parker's apology being hitting him over the head with a stick
- Buffy's IMO hilarious fantasies about saving Parker
- hangover cavegirl Buffy spinning in a swivvel chair and falling off.

I know a lot of people don't like it... But I honestly can't see why. It'd be in my top 5 funniest episodes without a doubt, and is one that I frequently watch to cheer me up.

 

[lorenzovanmatte]

See I really really love Beer Bad.

I found it so relatable as a girl who went to college, had her heart stomped on and turned to the 'foamy' comfort of beer for a while.

And I love the tongue in cheek exaggeration of beer turning people into wordless impulsive cavemen.

Best points:

- xander as a barman in way over his head at a busy student bar (been there mate!)
- Buffy having fun for once, and just indulging in accepting compliments and admiration from a bunch of guys
- Willow pretending to be enthrawled by Parker and then calling him out
- Buffy's response to Parker's apology being hitting him over the head with a stick
- Buffy's IMO hilarious fantasies about saving Parker
- hangover cavegirl Buffy spinning in a swivvel chair and falling off.

I know a lot of people don't like it... But I honestly can't see why. It'd be in my top 5 funniest episodes without a doubt, and is one that I frequently watch to cheer me up.

Beer Bad is funny and has some great lines 'NOTHING can defeat THE PENIS!". It's very interesting to compare this and Reptile Boy with the argument we're having over Karen Gillian on the Dr Who thread!

Love Xander in the bar, his moustache makes him look like Matt Dillon and a great performance from SMG, also love Willow's Jerry Springer style confession.

I must admit a little part of me wanted Parker to succeed 'jumping Willow's bones't: and I think he does have a point, for him he and Buffy were just casual sex and he doesn't actually owe her anything, he never lied to her or made her expect that it was more than that. And when he tries to apologise she bashes him with a branch? What if the gender roles were reversed and he was the creepy stalker who couldn't accept that it was over and when she apologises to him he hits her?

I think Beer Bad is essentially dumb fun and whilst that's ok in an American Pie sort of way we expect better of this superb series.

 

[Iron Man]

See I really really love Beer Bad.

I found it so relatable as a girl who went to college, had her heart stomped on and turned to the 'foamy' comfort of beer for a while.

And I love the tongue in cheek exaggeration of beer turning people into wordless impulsive cavemen.

Best points:

- xander as a barman in way over his head at a busy student bar (been there mate!)
- Buffy having fun for once, and just indulging in accepting compliments and admiration from a bunch of guys
- Willow pretending to be enthrawled by Parker and then calling him out
- Buffy's response to Parker's apology being hitting him over the head with a stick
- Buffy's IMO hilarious fantasies about saving Parker
- hangover cavegirl Buffy spinning in a swivvel chair and falling off.

I know a lot of people don't like it... But I honestly can't see why. It'd be in my top 5 funniest episodes without a doubt, and is one that I frequently watch to cheer me up.

It wasn't all bad. There were some hilarious moments in there - Giles trying to describe Buffy to someone while looking for her, Willow pretending to be taken in by Parker, a lot of Buffy's cavegirl antics - and I liked the idea of Xander being a bartender to incorporate him into the college environment a little more. However, to me, it just seemed to lack the usual wit of the show. Its storytelling didn't seem as sharp as usual and overall, the episode just didn't work for me. Too many of its gags fell flat, in my opinion, and there was no real subtlety.

 

[Iron Man]

I think he does have a point, for him he and Buffy were just casual sex and he doesn't actually owe her anything, he never lied to her or made her expect that it was more than that.

I actually think he did give her reason to expect more...he spent a whole week with her before he invited her to the party, and after they slept together he told her that he would call her and the only reason he couldn't spend more time with her that day was because his mum was coming to visit. It was also pretty obvious that he was doing exactly what he said he wasn't - using his dad's death to spin a sob story - which is pretty low.

That's the way I saw it, anyway.